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Just... just read the wiki page about him. That's the simplest way to introduce yourself to the madness.
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Feb 10, 2015 02:48
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Oh my god, the thread title. I hope Firestorm never gets his own show, we'd be lost without Caitlynn here.
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Feb 10, 2015 02:51
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Pastrymancy posted:Please elaborate on this He started out just using top themed weapons like top bombs and stuff. Then he taught himself to spin very fast which gave him mind powers. Then it gets crazy. His spinning actually like overheated his brain or whatever so he died. But his brain was too powerful to stay dead so he started possessing people, culminating in him possessing Barry's dad and having a showdown where he threatens to shoot himself in his (i.e. Barry's dad's) head. Then he went away for awhile but came back and possessed a senator to try and mess with the Flash again but got caught. Eventually his mind caused the senators body to actually rewrite itself to mimic the Tops, right down to having his fingerprints change.
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Feb 10, 2015 03:06
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Guy A. Person posted:He started out just using top themed weapons like top bombs and stuff. Then he taught himself to spin very fast which gave him mind powers. This character is increasingly sounding like Your Uncle Who Works at Nintendo. Whose deeds are legend, and all evidence that he's made-up is actually further proof he is real, merely adding to his power. I hope Firestorm doesn't get his own show, because how goddamn many of these shows can they sustain? Just in terms of available IP and quality of the writing. Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, and then hypothetical ATOM, Green Lantern, and Firestorm shows would be like 90+ hours of content a year. I'd be cool with them cutting seasons in half and doing more intertwined arcs, though. Like, 13 episodes of Arrow, then 13 of ATOM with a related arc. Basically the way Marvel's Netflix series are doing it, I guess.
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Feb 10, 2015 03:41
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Xealot posted:This character is increasingly sounding like Your Uncle Who Works at Nintendo. Whose deeds are legend, and all evidence that he's made-up is actually further proof he is real, merely adding to his power. Don't forget TNT's Teen Titans.
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Feb 10, 2015 04:05
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Green Lantern is a really far-fetched dream because good CGI alone would be like 90% of the show's budget if they want to avoid the mistakes of Green Lanterns Past.
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Feb 10, 2015 04:28
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Xealot posted:This character is increasingly sounding like Your Uncle Who Works at Nintendo. Whose deeds are legend, and all evidence that he's made-up is actually further proof he is real, merely adding to his power. I've mentioned this before, but I want 5 CW superhero shows, one for each weekday, so that there can be an annual week long crossover event. We have Arrow, Flash, Atom confirmed...(will supergirl be on CW?). Add Green Lantern to the mix and we're all good.
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Feb 10, 2015 04:28
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The Lord Bude posted:I've mentioned this before, but I want 5 CW superhero shows, one for each weekday, so that there can be an annual week long crossover event. We have Arrow, Flash, Atom confirmed...(will supergirl be on CW?). Add Green Lantern to the mix and we're all good. Supergirl on CBS, but it's made by the same people behind Arrow/Flash and confirmed to be in the same TV continuity I believe.
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Feb 10, 2015 04:53
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Eddain posted:Supergirl on CBS, but it's made by the same people behind Arrow/Flash and confirmed to be in the same TV continuity I believe. It's been confirmed to be the opposite, actually.
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Feb 10, 2015 05:14
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Scyantific posted:Green Lantern is a really far-fetched dream because good CGI alone would be like 90% of the show's budget if they want to avoid the mistakes of Green Lanterns Past. John just drives around a town car, with an assault rifle, that he's both spray painted neon green.
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Feb 10, 2015 05:28
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We were speculating that GL will be tv off limits because of the existing and future film. Barry had already been introduced on Arrow and his pilot was shooting before the announcement of the new film. The solution is to make Diggle a Darkstar. 
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Feb 10, 2015 05:33
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Diggle for Tyroc.
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Feb 10, 2015 06:32
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So here's my take on Wells/Reverse Flash. My guess is that the Wells we know is farther in the future than the Reverse Flash who's kicking around. I think it goes something like this: Timeline I 21st Century Barry Allen becomes the Flash Barry Allen saves the world during the Crisis and dies. 25th Century Young Eobard Thawne gets obsessed with the Flash, possibly because Barry himself ends up time travelling forward and meets him, and goes back in time and creates Timeline II Timeline II 20th/21st Century Reverse Flash Thawne fucks things up somehow, and in doing so, keeps the Flash from saving the world. The world ends in the Crisis. Right before it ends, Thawne sends himself back in time to fix what he's done and creates Timeline III. Timeline III *Current Timeline* 21st Century Not as young Thawne ends up in early 21st century with his powers depleted. He assumes the identity of Harrison Wells (H.G. Wells' "Time Traveller") and engineers the creation of the Flash, at least partially undoing his younger self's work. Wells keeps himself on station to try and shepherd Barry to his final destiny in the Crisis while also attempting to find ways to restore his fading powers. I think the critical piece of evidence is when Wells is speaking to the caged Reverse Flash at STAR Labs. The way he emphasizes "DETECTIVE THAWNE" is a warning to his younger self that "Hey dipshit, that guy's our ancestor. DON'T KILL HIM!" That suggests to me strongly that the Reverse Flash isn't a future Wells, because he would already know who Eddie was. Ergo, if Reverse Flash is Wells but doesn't know who Eddie is, he must be a younger version than the wheelchair Wells we know. Furthermore, the Wells we know's powers are crippled, while the Reverse Flash who beat the poo poo outta Barry is clearly in his prime. That reinforces the idea that Wells hosed his powers up when he came back in time the second time. Anyway, that's my guess. I think it holds together with the evidence we've got to date, but I'm willing to adjust my speculation as we go deeper into the show and new evidence appears.
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Feb 10, 2015 07:52
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jng2058 posted:So here's my take on Wells/Reverse Flash. My guess is that the Wells we know is farther in the future than the Reverse Flash who's kicking around. I think it goes something like this: That sounds right and I think you are on to something. My only problem I have is that wouldn't Reverse Flash know that Wells is his future self? Like if RF fucks something up that badly, why can't Wells just tell Reverse Flash "I'm you from the future idiot, if we want to avoid the horrible future we need to avoid doing X?" It also doesn't completely explain why RF decided to beat the crap out of Wells (himself), it got him out of the field but he didn't have to go that far.
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Feb 10, 2015 08:46
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STRANGELY COMPELLING
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Feb 10, 2015 08:48
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Shadoer posted:It also doesn't completely explain why RF decided to beat the crap out of Wells (himself), it got him out of the field but he didn't have to go that far. Same reason Oliver shot Barry in the back, he can heal fast.
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Feb 10, 2015 09:08
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Angry Walrus posted:Same reason Oliver shot Barry in the back, he can heal fast. Not necessarily. Wells powers are crippled, he can't be too sure his healing factor isn't compromised as well.
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Feb 10, 2015 09:10
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jng2058 posted:So here's my take on Wells/Reverse Flash. My guess is that the Wells we know is farther in the future than the Reverse Flash who's kicking around. I think it goes something like this: If Reverse Flash Thawne of Timeline II sends himself back in time to create Timeline III, then who is the Reverse Flash in Timeline III? It can't be his younger self, since he won't be born for another four centuries.
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Feb 10, 2015 09:28
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enraged_camel posted:If Reverse Flash Thawne of Timeline II sends himself back in time to create Timeline III, then who is the Reverse Flash in Timeline III? It can't be himself, since he won't be alive for another four centuries. The Reverse Flash from Timeline II, his younger self. The Reverse Flash that probably just traveled back in time, but before this "crisis" happened that causes him to go back again to pose as Wells.
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Feb 10, 2015 09:31
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Shadoer posted:Not necessarily. Wells powers are crippled, he can't be too sure his healing factor isn't compromised as well. It seemed really obvious Wells is trying to tell RF this, that Wells can heal quickly (or will once he has the tachyon device) when he tells him about how RF's powers allow him to heal very quickly.
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Feb 10, 2015 09:40
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Flesh Forge posted:It seemed really obvious Wells is trying to tell RF this, that Wells can heal quickly (or will once he has the tachyon device) when he tells him about how RF's powers allow him to heal very quickly. That's true, in their talk he does give him all the hints he needs to figure out how to escape. However that doesn't explain why RF hasn't just gone "Future self, wtf is going on."
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Feb 10, 2015 09:46
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I still don't quite get how RF beat up wells and stole the tachyon device, and somehow Wells ended up with it. Are they collaborating behind the scenes?
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Feb 10, 2015 09:50
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enraged_camel posted:I still don't quite get how RF beat up wells and stole the tachyon device, and somehow Wells ended up with it. Almost certainly, but Reverse Flash I doesn't seem to know everything Wells knows for some reason.
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Feb 10, 2015 09:55
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enraged_camel posted:If Reverse Flash Thawne of Timeline II sends himself back in time to create Timeline III, then who is the Reverse Flash in Timeline III? It can't be his younger self, since he won't be born for another four centuries. In my interpretation, Wells as we know him on his second time jump backwards doesn't go as far back as Nora Allen's murder. I think he ends up somewhere in the late '90s, early 2000s or so around the time "Harrison Wells" starts gaining notoriety as a scientist. Therefore, his younger self is still out there, and likely still obsessed with jacking Barry up. Also, TL2 Rverse Flash hasn't had the transformative "I watched the world die" event that manufactures Wells. Which means that TL3 Wells has to walk a fine line between keeping his younger self working with him without revealing that his actual goal is to preserve Barry, not kill him the way TL2 RF wants. Time for some crappy ASCII art! TL1: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Barry Saves World TL2: -----------------------------------------* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > (Barry Saves World) ............................................\ .............................................. ---------------------------------------------------------> Barry Killed by RF, World Ends TL3: -----------------------------------------* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > (Barry Saves World) .............................................\ ................................................-------------------------** - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> (Barry Killed by RF, World Ends) ..............................................................................\ ................................................................................ --------------------------> Still in progress, as of the last time Wells looked at his newspaper, Barry Saves World --------------------------> Active Timeline - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Invalidated Timeline * = Reverse Flash goes back in time and changes history ** = Wells goes back in time and alters events from a later point than RF's first arrival. ......................... = Spacing dots. Ignore these. Therefore, both Reverse Flash and Wells exist in the later parts of TL3. The question is what happens at the Crisis Point if the world isn't ending and Wells doesn't go back to create TL3? Of course that's quite a ways off yet.... Shadoer posted:Almost certainly, but Reverse Flash I doesn't seem to know everything Wells knows for some reason. I think Wells is playing RF for a sucker. He knows (or believes) that without seeing the world about to end because of his actions that RF won't give up his quest to kill Barry. Therefore, Wells is lying to himself about what Wells wants and is pretending to help the RF while in fact trying to keep his younger self from accomplishing his goal without said younger self figuring it out. It's a complicated tightrope that the guy in a wheel chair is trying to walk.  Or, you know, I could be totally wrong about all this. But I dunno, this feels right with the data we have so far.
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Feb 10, 2015 12:34
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Imagine four Tom Cavanaghs on the edge of a cliff.
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Feb 10, 2015 12:40
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Whizbang posted:Imagine four Tom Cavanaghs on the edge of a cliff. Michael Ian Black walks by. "Hey Magic!" they yell in unison. The Speed Force works the same way.
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Feb 10, 2015 12:58
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The problem with this theory is RF bluntly tells Barry "it is your DESTINY to lose to me, FLASH." I mean I guess he could just be talking poo poo but that seems super unlikely, it really was heavily emphasized when he said tha. also we know it's Tom Cavanagh in the suit/saying that line and it seems really out of character for him
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Feb 10, 2015 13:15
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jng2058 posted:Time for some crappy ASCII art! Hmm well to build on this, let's add in some other hints to we've gotten. TL1: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Barry Saves World and disappears in 2024 (according to Well's Newspaper) In this timeline Barry was raised by both his parents (mom is alive, dad not in jail) and he becomes the Flash later in life. Assuming Wells/RF is ancestor of Detective Thawne, at somepoint Thawne has at least one kid. TL2: -----------------------------------------* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > (Barry Saves World) ............................................\ .............................................. ---------------------------------------------------------> Barry Killed by RF, World Ends For unknown reasons Wells/RF travels back in time to kill the Flash before he becomes the Flash. Now the disaster of 2024 is unavoidable and the world ends. Before this occurs, Wells travels back in time again. TL3: -----------------------------------------* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > (Barry Saves World) .............................................\ ................................................-------------------------** - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> (Barry Killed by RF, World Ends) ..............................................................................\ ................................................................................ --------------------------> Still in progress, as of the last time Wells looked at his newspaper, Barry Saves World Wells goes back and manages to save Barry from himself, however Barry's mom is killed and his father is imprisoned. Wells then proceeds to go to extraordinary lengths to create the particle accelerator accident in order to ensure that Barry becomes The Flash. Even more he's trying to build up the Flash's power and going out of his way to protect him. He's manipulating his younger self to help him and is probably preventing RF from killing Barry yet. At the same time, he is trying to restore his own powers and abilities which were crippled in an unknown event. --------------------------> Active Timeline - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Invalidated Timeline * = Reverse Flash goes back in time and changes history ** = Wells goes back in time and alters events from a later point than RF's first arrival. ......................... = Spacing dots. Ignore these. Edit: Flesh Forge posted:The problem with this theory is RF bluntly tells Barry "it is your DESTINY to lose to me, FLASH." I mean I guess he could just be talking poo poo but that seems super unlikely, it really was heavily emphasized when he said tha. also we know it's Tom Cavanagh in the suit/saying that line and it seems really out of character for him It's possible that Wells/RF is the reason for the 2024 crisis. In the first timeline the world is saved but Flash disappears, presumably dead. If we take it that RF was the cause, RF killed the Flash but was unable to complete his plan. In the 2nd timeline, RF kills the Flash again. Right now in the 3rd timeline, RF is basically Flash's mentor and can kill Flash whenever he wants. So yeah, it is currently Barry's destiny to lose to RF. Shadoer fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 13:30
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I feel like I need to re-watch Primer here... ...unless I haven't watched it for the first time yet. 
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Feb 10, 2015 14:10
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enraged_camel posted:I still don't quite get how RF beat up wells and stole the tachyon device, and somehow Wells ended up with it. Either Wells has the device from a different point in time, or the other Reverse Flash (whether it's Wells at a different time or someone else entirely) was in on it even then and put it in the secret room during his escape.
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Feb 10, 2015 14:44
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Shadoer posted:Lots of stuff Yeah, that's pretty much got it surrounded as far as I'm concerned. With the usual "pending more data" caveats, of course.
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Feb 10, 2015 14:51
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The multiple timeline thing jng2058 mentioned is almost exactly my current Wells/RF hypothesis, although I think splitting it into multiple timelines like that is misleading. It's all one timeline, with the various changes (for example, the 'no more Flash' future mentioned in Power Outage) laid on top of one another.
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Feb 10, 2015 15:28
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Technogeek posted:The multiple timeline thing jng2058 mentioned is almost exactly my current Wells/RF hypothesis, although I think splitting it into multiple timelines like that is misleading. It's all one timeline, with the various changes (for example, the 'no more Flash' future mentioned in Power Outage) laid on top of one another. Now you're just arguing time-travel mechanical models, which is pointless, because every single work of time-travel fiction has its own arbitrary rules for the mechanics and philosophical implications of time-travel, and we don't yet know the rules for The Flash.
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Feb 10, 2015 15:33
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I like the theories, but I don't think they're what's happening right now. The problem is that they are remarkably complicated, and this is a CW show. They need an explanation that is understandable to an average CW viewer when laid out in seven sentences, and what we have right now in the thread just isn't that simple. The "RF beating up Wells" will, I think be explained by time travel trickery. The tachyon device gives him his powers back, but he uses most of the power provided to jump back in time a few days to steal the device, which he leaves for himself to find after the fight, which gives him his powers back, but he uses most of the power... A simple three-day loop, with slightly older RF returning to do all of the things needed to get that tachyon device into his hands. And if Bill and Ted could explain something as simple as that (it's the keys trick, just with the tachyon device), so can a CW show.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:03
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Byers2142 posted:I like the theories, but I don't think they're what's happening right now. The problem is that they are remarkably complicated, and this is a CW show. They need an explanation that is understandable to an average CW viewer when laid out in seven sentences, and what we have right now in the thread just isn't that simple. What's not simple about it? 
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Feb 10, 2015 16:07
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Byers2142 posted:The "RF beating up Wells" will, I think be explained by time travel trickery. The tachyon device gives him his powers back, but he uses most of the power provided to jump back in time a few days to steal the device, which he leaves for himself to find after the fight, which gives him his powers back, but he uses most of the power... I'm pretty sure it's not even going to be this complicated.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:18
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Whizbang posted:What's not simple about it? P.much Outside of timelines and stuff, it boils down to this: Wells is a time traveler from the future who has the Flash's powers. For unknown reasons he traveled back in time to kill the Barry before he became the Flash and succeeded. However he then realized that doing this screwed everything over, so now he's traveled back in time again to stop his younger self and fix the damage he caused. It's basically the plot of most Time Travel fiction where someone travels back in time and everything gets messed up and then they have to fix the change they made. Only difference is in those stories we'd be seeing it through Well's eyes, in this we are seeing it from the character who's life is being changed by time travel.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:18
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Aphrodite posted:Either Wells has the device from a different point in time, or the other Reverse Flash (whether it's Wells at a different time or someone else entirely) was in on it even then and put it in the secret room during his escape. The tachyon device RF stole could have been fake, switched out by wells beforehand.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:19
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Nah, they're pretty clear about RF being able to actually feel or smell tachyons, I tend to doubt Wells could fake him out that easily. I mean if Wells can manufacture tachyons to bait-and-switch RF then what does he need the tachyon generator from Amanda Pays for. e: I still feel pretty sure that Wells' story is going to be told backwards, over a period of at least a couple of years, and will be the backbone metaplot for the entire series. There will probably be lengthy departures from it to deal with other important arcs like Grodd but I can't see them shooting their wad with RF/Wells in the next oops, long season Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 16:22
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Meaning, you think they'll treat it like Oliver's backstory? I think there's a good chance we get a lot more story than you think we'll get, but I think it'll be a plot line for a long time. I just wonder if he's going to be the big bad for Season 2 or something.
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Feb 10, 2015 17:19
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