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HEY GAL posted:Ah, I was thinking of Deborah, who was a Judge, Judith was a widow in the town he was besieging. Now, Israel is a party to some of the Geneva conventions, but Nebuchadnezzar's Neo-Babylonian Empire is not... Hah, holy cow! It's like she's surprised at how much BLOOD there is.
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Feb 10, 2015 03:12
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 Go Gentileschi or go home, IMHO.
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Feb 10, 2015 03:13
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask / Tell > Ask Us About Military History: PYF Decapitation painting
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Feb 10, 2015 03:23
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Anyways, capital ships don't escort convoys unless you're expecting something more than submarine attack. Weren't most of the German capital ships sunk by the time the US got into the ETO? HEY GAL posted:Ah, I was thinking of Deborah, who was a Judge, Judith was a widow in the town he was besieging. Now, Israel is a party to some of the Geneva conventions, but Nebuchadnezzar's Neo-Babylonian Empire is not... Ha, ha, I don't know it looks like she's saying "I'm sorry did that hurt? Does it hurt more if I do it THIS way?" at which point she's just talking to a severed head.
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Feb 10, 2015 04:34
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YF19pilot posted:Weren't most of the German capital ships sunk by the time the US got into the ETO? It's only Graf Spee and Bismarck which were sunk, most of the German fleet sat in Norway as a fleet-in-being. The Murmansk convoy route is where the British eventually start sending carriers and bigger ships because a whole lick of the German battleships sit in Trondheim all war. Convoy PQ17 is a horrible disaster where the Admiralty panics and scatters a convoy, to be picked off by 10 different U-boats and rattle the Soviets. This was in response to news of Tirpitz sortieing, which it didn't really do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_PQ_17 Later on, the British have a little more confidence and send a battleship-led escorting force that sinks the Scharnhorst. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_North_Cape The Mediterranean is where most capital ship escorts had to go, mainly to defend against aerial attack. The Italian Navy was theoretically a threat, but it was grounded for lack of fuel and confidence. The big Malta convoys were accompanied at times by 8 capital ships at once. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 05:22
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The Mediterranean is where most capital ship escorts had to go, mainly for fear of aerial attack. The Italian Navy was theoretically a threat, but it was grounded mainly for lack of fuel and confidence. The big Malta convoys were accompanied at times by 8 capital ships at a time. There was big naval battles in the Med I think, mostly inconclusive in terms of ships sunk, but certaiy enough to shut down British traffic through the region during the siege of Malta. And then the Germans had their own version of Mers-I-Kebir, attacking the Italians as they went to surrender to the Allies.
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Feb 10, 2015 05:32
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The Brits had a lot of battleships that could be put towards keeping the Germans bottled up, and that kept them out of the Pacific so King didn't raise too much hell about having to let Brits join up with the US fleet.
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Feb 10, 2015 07:16
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HEY GAL posted:Ah, I was thinking of Deborah, who was a Judge, Judith was a widow in the town he was besieging. Now, Israel is a party to some of the Geneva conventions, but Nebuchadnezzar's Neo-Babylonian Empire is not... ISIS pinup. A real cutie. She's like "Eww what is that red poo poo coming out of there? My sheets!"
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Feb 10, 2015 08:13
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WGT is not all bad. Some people work on costumes all year, and their makeup a week in advance, and look simply dashing  Some people even come as landsknechts! But yeah, we digress, so here's what I know you lot are dying to help me with: Could a so-called geballte ladung (4-6 stiehlhandgranate heads wired/taped together on one stick) penetrate the armor of a T-34? My "regular Ions" RPG where the players portray the lucky Romanian conscripts stopping the Soviet advance of '44 is still going on, and with the Battle of Podu Iloaiei coming up, I need creative AT solutions for them 
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Feb 10, 2015 08:16
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OK, who's better at facial expressions, Caravaggio or Velasquez? Tentative remark: I think Caravaggio is better at people having feelings and Velasquez is better at people thinking, looking at each other and thinking, looking at you looking at each other and thinking, etc.Tias posted:WGT is not all bad. Some people work on costumes all year, and their makeup a week in advance, and look simply dashing Edit: Note that I didn't ask "with whom would you rather get drunk and hurt people?" That's because unlike Caravaggio, Velasquez does not (to my knowledge) have an extensive police record. So Caravaggio wins. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 08:17
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Tias posted:WGT is not all bad. Some people work on costumes all year, and their makeup a week in advance, and look simply dashing You throw it at the side of the tank and pray that the track breaks. Other ways? Throw a mollie at the engine comparment? HEY GAL posted:OK, who's better at facial expressions, Caravaggio or Velasquez? Tentative remark: I think Caravaggio is better at people having feelings and Velasquez is better at people thinking, looking at each other and thinking, looking at you looking at each other and thinking, etc. Caravaggio. Look at the facial expressions. The dude holding the sack.
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Feb 10, 2015 08:23
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JaucheCharly posted:Caravaggio. Look at the facial expressions. The dude holding the sack. Edit: Or Innocent X. You can feel the subject's mind in that one. 
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 08:27
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Arquinsiel posted:Unironically... yeah, kind of. There are even some Italians involved. The goth scene thrives on petty drama. I could go into specifics as expressed via poetry but this isn't the place. PM me if you really care. It's a 1914 Home Rule Crisis joke 
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Feb 10, 2015 09:19
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Phew, that's a hard question. Caravaggio's expressions are more theatrical, while Velasquez has a more natural touch.
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Feb 10, 2015 10:22
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I'm reading through John Toland's The Rising Sun and one of the more eye-opening sections so far was the part where Secretary of State Cordell Hull was reading the Japanese diplomats' communications with Tokyo because of MAGIC intercepts, but the unfamiliarity of the translators with the "stylized Japanese of the diplomats" distorts the messages to seem more nefarious/malicious than they probably were.quote:Original: This is our proposal setting forth what virtually are our final concessions quote:Original: Strenuous efforts are being made day and night to adjust Japaense-American relations, which are on the verge of rupture quote:Original: Now that we make the utmost concession in the spirit of complete friendliness for the sake of peaceful solution, we hope earnestly that the United States will, on entering the final stage of the negotiations, reconsider the matter and approach this crisis in a proper spirit with a view to preserving Japanese-American relations.
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Feb 10, 2015 13:03
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Tias posted:But yeah, we digress, so here's what I know you lot are dying to help me with: Could a so-called geballte ladung (4-6 stiehlhandgranate heads wired/taped together on one stick) penetrate the armor of a T-34? My "regular Ions" RPG where the players portray the lucky Romanian conscripts stopping the Soviet advance of '44 is still going on, and with the Battle of Podu Iloaiei coming up, I need creative AT solutions for them It can't penetrate the front and would be very unlikely with the sides of a T-34, but if you got one under the tank, under/next to a tread or on the engine deck or wedged next to the turret, it would stand a good chance at crippling it. Another improvised anti-tank weapon for the same kind of thing was IIRC a stiehlhandgranate head taped to an AT mine. Also, liberal use of molotovs and smoke grenades. Mollies can do a number on the engine deck and both can be smashed into the front to blind the tank. Magni fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 13:06
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Tias posted:WGT is not all bad. Some people work on costumes all year, and their makeup a week in advance, and look simply dashing That kind of improvised solution won't penetrate armour, except maybe something ridiculously thin like 5 mm. It can knock off tracks if you shove it into a good place though. Burning gasoline (thickening agent suggested) has always been a good field expedient way of stopping tanks. Otherwise, slap some mud on the viewports and hope accompanying infantry won't get you.
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Feb 10, 2015 14:45
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Ensign Expendable posted:That kind of improvised solution won't penetrate armour, except maybe something ridiculously thin like 5 mm. It can knock off tracks if you shove it into a good place though. I'm thinking that if you can do that, something has gone seriously right and the enemy infantry isn't in any position or shape to intervene. By the way, I've been reading FoW Fate of a Nation, anyone wants to say something about Arab armies in Israeli-Arab wars?
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Feb 10, 2015 15:18
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^^^^ Play Jordan, it's cheaper on your wallet. If you paint the tanks "kind of sandy I guess" then they can work for Jordan or Israel, and you can re-use the infantry for North Africa British  .HEY GAL posted:If I see any, I will judge them. ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:It's a 1914 Home Rule Crisis joke 
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Feb 10, 2015 15:31
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Tias posted:But yeah, we digress, so here's what I know you lot are dying to help me with: Could a so-called geballte ladung (4-6 stiehlhandgranate heads wired/taped together on one stick) penetrate the armor of a T-34? My "regular Ions" RPG where the players portray the lucky Romanian conscripts stopping the Soviet advance of '44 is still going on, and with the Battle of Podu Iloaiei coming up, I need creative AT solutions for them Molotov cocktails. They could also possibly setup IED like devices using abandoned ammunition (Think tank rounds though, not grenades).
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Feb 10, 2015 15:41
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Ensign Expendable posted:Otherwise, slap some mud on the viewports and hope accompanying infantry won't get you. Haha, was this common?
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Feb 10, 2015 15:47
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gradenko_2000 posted:Also, it should come as no surprise to anyone who has read Shattered Sword that during the planning for the Pearl Harbor attack, a wargame resulted in the Kido Butai getting by PBY Catalinas before getting into striking range of Hawaii and getting half its planes destroyed and two carriers sunk. Yamamoto threatened resignation in order to let the plan go forward regardless. That wasn't why Yamamoto threatened resignation. When you take the time to gather a few dozen senior officers to wargame an ops plan, when something bad happens you take notes, reset, and continue testing the rest of the plan. The idea is to work through the whole plan, test every component, and let everyone get some practice on it. You can't do that if one bad result in the middle derails the whole thing. Zimm's Attack on Pearl Harbor covers that in more detail. It's to Pearl Harbor what Shattered Sword is to Midway and you should read it anyway.
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Feb 10, 2015 15:51
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Hogge Wild posted:Haha, was this common? Mud is common.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:01
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Hogge Wild posted:Haha, was this common? Yes. If a tank's infantry escort falls behind, it's extremely vulnerable to even primitive tricks like this.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:03
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Ensign Expendable posted:Yes. If a tank's infantry escort falls behind, it's extremely vulnerable to even primitive tricks like this. I've read about downright Paleolithic methods of attacking unsupported tanks like logs to tracks and rocks to wedge between hull and turret, but mudsmearing was new to me. Smart, though. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 17:53
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 This picture from GiP was the result of a rock getting lodges in the road wheels. Would tossing rocks into tracks be a viable primitive anti-tank assault tactic?
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Feb 10, 2015 18:00
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Ensign Expendable posted:Yes. If a tank's infantry escort falls behind, it's extremely vulnerable to even primitive tricks like this. I was reading on your Tank Archives one of the stories about a Panzer I or II, where a lone Russian soldier came across a lone tankette. He killed it by whacking the first guy to pop out of the hatch with a shovel after climbing aboard, smearing mud on the viewports and air vents and plugging the machine guns with branches, and then beating up the crew with his saperka when they tried to climb out.
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Feb 10, 2015 18:06
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Smoke candles/grenades, molotovs or just automatic fire at the vision slits was similar part of close-in anti tank defense. Here's a pretty good 1943 publication from US military intelligence detailing german tactics for close-range tank hunting.
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Feb 10, 2015 18:14
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chitoryu12 posted:I was reading on your Tank Archives one of the stories about a Panzer I or II, where a lone Russian soldier came across a lone tankette. He killed it by whacking the first guy to pop out of the hatch with a shovel after climbing aboard, smearing mud on the viewports and air vents and plugging the machine guns with branches, and then beating up the crew with his saperka when they tried to climb out. This was basically standard anti-tank doctrine for the IJA/IJN wasn't it? e: Suddenly reminded of a story of Sherman tanks somewhere in the Pacific (Korean War?) that were getting swarmed by soldiers so they pointed turrets at each other and hosed each other down with .50 cal fire. That must've been some PTSD afterwards. Eej fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 19:30
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Eej posted:This was basically standard anti-tank doctrine for the IJA/IJN wasn't it? "Back scratches" date back to WW2, I think, but they were also used in Korea because of the nasty tendency for the enemy to use human wave attacks or have guys hidden in the cities like Seoul jump onto tanks and garrote the commander or throw a grenade in. My friend John sent me a story from a German tanker where the unit's lead tank was getting ready to hose off one that was being swarmed by Russian infantry, but the machine gun jammed. Without time to do anything else, the commander ordered the gunner to fire an HE round at it. It didn't penetrate the armor, but it scared the poo poo out of everyone inside.
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Feb 10, 2015 19:43
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Magni posted:Here's a pretty good 1943 publication from US military intelligence detailing german tactics for close-range tank hunting. I thought the idea of sliding antitank mines around on tethers between foxholes was particularly clever.
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Feb 10, 2015 19:51
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:
Throwing is unlikely to be effective, but if you jam it in while the tank is stationary it will work.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:42
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100 Years Ago It's another African day. Both sides have finished re-evaluating their tactics after the Battle of Jasin, and there's very little good news for anyone. Particularly not if you happen to work on the Uganda Railway; once again it's about to earn its nickname "The Lunatic Line". Meanwhile, Herbert Sulzbach returns from his jolly (interestingly, he couldn't find any flour in Metz) and rejoins his battery to find that the heat in his little corner of Champagne is being turned up a great deal by the French...
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Feb 10, 2015 21:50
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To me, being in a tank is like being in a car in a bad part of town. You're visible to everyone, have no room to maneuver your arms, and you can be threatened from any angle.Rocko Bonaparte posted:I thought the idea of sliding antitank mines around on tethers between foxholes was particularly clever. It sounds like a good way to make use of a limited number of mines, but steel box magically moving along the ground is going to get spotted by infantry escorts. Would do better at night.
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Feb 11, 2015 05:51
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Phobophilia posted:It sounds like a good way to make use of a limited number of mines, but steel box magically moving along the ground is going to get spotted by infantry escorts. Would do better at night. The infantry have a hell of a lot on their plate. They're watching for snipers, dodging mortar fire, getting pinned down by MG fire, etc. A small, dark metal box slowly sliding across a road grabs a lot less attention than a machine gun. Effective anti-armor ambushes usually have a way to destroy or distract the armor's infantry escorts.
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Feb 11, 2015 06:00
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Arquinsiel posted:^^^^ But what about actual iShermans and Sherman as a post WWII platform, and why the game considers them so much better than T-34s? What about the British legacy in Jordanian training? 
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Feb 11, 2015 06:28
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Phobophilia posted:To me, being in a tank is like being in a car in a bad part of town. You're visible to everyone, have no room to maneuver your arms, and you can be threatened from any angle. And you make sure to roll up the windows because that's sure to improve your level of safety.
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Feb 11, 2015 07:27
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Lock the doors everyone, we're going through the Nazi neighbourhood.
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Feb 11, 2015 09:00
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Phobophilia posted:It sounds like a good way to make use of a limited number of mines, but steel box magically moving along the ground is going to get spotted by infantry escorts. Would do better at night. Pretty much the first rule for everything there is to seperate the infantry from the tanks through suppressing fires - mortars being the preferred choice for obvious reasons. Then you add in other little tricks like pulling it in a field with somewhat higher grass. Or you dig a very shallow trench for your sliding mine if you have some prep time to spare. The sheer amount of bullshit you can pull off with some explosives and creativity are pretty awesome - the Wehrmacht considered their combat engineers just as important for anti-tank defense as the actual anti-tank units. One german general (Can't remember, von Saucken or Heinrici I think?) summed it up something like this: "If your target is tanks, start with pioneers. Add anti-tank support, then throw in some armor, anti-air and a mobile reserve. Set up an ambush and you have a recipe for success." Panzerschrecks/fausts and Bazookas are an effective replacement/upgrade for that specific trick - you space them out along the line and hit the tanks in the side as they try to overrun you. Magni fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 11:34
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Slavvy posted:Lock the doors everyone, we're going through the Nazi neighbourhood. *sets iPod to play the theme from Patton on a loop*
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Feb 11, 2015 12:41
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