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I'm test driving a car tomorrow and if it feels like a good car, I might make them an offer. In the off-chance that the offer goes anywhere, I wanted to have an idea of what kinds of fees I can expect. The purchase would be a used car from a dealer in California. So far I have: Sales tax: 7.5% of sticker price (even if negotiated down [I think]) DMV registration: $263 (I used the DMV web page using the car's VIN) Title transfer: $15 Documentation fees: $80 max What other fees can I expect and which of those are complete bullshit?
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Feb 8, 2015 03:08
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Here's what I saw (also CA), I'm assuming they're not bullshit but who knows: $80 Doc $26 "Electronic Registration" $100 "Registration Fee" $161 "License Fee" $8.75 "California Tire Fee" Sales tax should be on the actual sale price you've negotiated, not the sticker as far as I know. Incentives act a little different (more like rebates applied to your down payment) but you said used so that doesn't apply here. Remy Marathe fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 04:50
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Got a 2015 Fit EX with no haggling thanks to Costco's Auto Finder program, opted for a seven-year (or 100,000-mile) extended warranty (broke even thanks to the Costco discount), and even got $2,900 for trading in my '03 PT Cruiser, which was much better than I anticipated. My 30 GB iPod Classic is too old for the Fit to recognize it, which was disappointing, but I love everything else about the car so far. I'm stunned than I don't feel more cognitive dissonance, but I did my research and ended up with the car I've wanted for years. Big Bad Voodoo Lou fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Feb 9, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 05:00
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Remy Marathe posted:Here's what I saw (also CA), I'm assuming they're not bullshit but who knows: Indeed, tax is on top of the negotiated price. The car does have a hole in it's maintenance history - it has no record of the 45k maintenance on the Carfax. So up until 30k miles all the required maintenance was done, and the next entry is at 56k miles for CPO inspection/conditioning. The car is a lease return, and while I know you guys hate these, the car has mostly HWY miles in SoCal and according to truedelta it's a drama-free car (2012 Subaru Outback). I told them that if the CPO inspection/conditioning includes the 60k mile maintenance and if they dig up proof of the 45k mile maintenance then I'd think about an offer. I'll hear back from them tomorrow and we'll see where I go from there.
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Feb 9, 2015 02:38
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How do you know they are hwy miles?
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Feb 9, 2015 08:40
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nm posted:How do you know they are hwy miles? I don't know for sure, it's just a guess at this point. I doubt this matters, as I don't think the dealer will be able to provide proof of all the required oil changes between 30k and 60k miles. But the people at the dealership seemed like nice people. When I pointed out the lack of an oil change record between 30k and 60k, they immediately fired back with something unexpected: "Have it inspected by an independent mechanic, we have nothing to hide." There was also very little pressure by two of the three people to sell me anything, only the finance/warranty guy was a bit pushy. So overall, this car may not be the car, but after two visits now, I'm pretty happy with the dealership.
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Feb 9, 2015 17:21
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Claverjoe posted:I had a friend offer the idea of getting a hybrid car, but the Prius doesn't really appeal (ugly ugly ugly), and the Camry is wildly expensive for what you get. Would a ~2011-2012 Fusion hybrid be reasonably similar in terms of car's expected lifetime, since they essentially licensed out Toyota's drive-train? I can find them for about 15k with 20-40k miles on them. Ended up getting a 2011 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid with 17k miles on it, full maintenance records for 19.5k including taxes. The fanciest Fusion. Hell, it gets 42 mpg on regular highways and 38mpg on the interstate without any babying. Nice little car.
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Feb 10, 2015 00:44
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I need a sanity check. The car in question is here, and the test drive was great. The dealer has paperwork that shows regular oil changes up until 47k and then again at 58k. I don't know why the oil changes between 30k and 58k don't show up on Carfax. At the CPO reconditioning they performed the 60k maintenance. I've managed to get them down to $20.5k ($22.5k OTD), and given the missing oil change at 52k and the high mileage I would be ok with offering them $22k OTD or walking away as I am in no rush (though it would be nice to retire my 237k mile beater). Do I sound like someone with Stockholm syndrome?
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Feb 10, 2015 03:46
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theHUNGERian posted:I need a sanity check. I wouldn't worry too much. Carfax isn't the be all end all, and a lot of stuff gets missed or not reported. If you're hanging your hat on a car purchase having oil changes listed on Carfax, spend $100 and get an independent inspection.
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Feb 10, 2015 03:52
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My dealer doesn't report to carfax. I have the cars serviced there according to factory schedule and their carfax reports are blank. I wouldn't worry about it
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Feb 10, 2015 05:45
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theHUNGERian posted:stuff /\/\/\/\/\ That and, while not recommended, a new car would probably be fine with an 11k interval between oil chances once (assuming I'm reading you right and it is only 47k-58k, and not 30k-58k).
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Feb 10, 2015 21:06
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Grumpwagon posted:/\/\/\/\/\ That and, while not recommended, a new car would probably be fine with an 11k interval between oil chances once (assuming I'm reading you right and it is only 47k-58k, and not 30k-58k). Yes, you are reading that right. Thanks thread. If the finance guy doesn't gently caress it all up, I'll pick up the car tomorrow.
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Feb 11, 2015 04:35
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theHUNGERian posted:Yes, you are reading that right. I've been told that with synthetic oil 10k miles is totally fine. I get mine done every year (about 5k miles for me, I hate commuting so I just move close to work), but I had no problems putting a ton of miles on my previous car, a camry between oil changes until it got to be like 20 years old and was burning diesel oil like a bastard.
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Feb 11, 2015 05:27
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For regular oil, 5-6k is fine unless you are driving in a very dusty environment or you routinely overheat your engine. For synthetic, 8-12k is fine, unless etc. etc. The old "every 3,000 miles" oil change regimen was based on the quality of oil in the 1950s. Today's oils are far higher quality and have additives that improve their longevity. OIl change places and dealerships still like to put a 3k miles sticker reminder, but that's because they make a lot of money on doing oil changes. Also: Carfax doesn't know about any of my car's services because I do them myself.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:32
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Leperflesh posted:The old "every 3,000 miles" oil change regimen was based on the quality of oil in the 1950s. Also the quality of engines in the 1950s. Modern engines run much cleaner and with much tighter tolerances. If a 1950s engine made it to 100k miles without a rebuild it was a miracle. If a 2015 engine does not make it to 100k miles with no serious problem, it's a piece of poo poo. Really, more like 200k. A modern engine in good condition running full synthetic can go 10-15k miles between changes no problem if that is what it is specced for. As always, read the owner's manual and follow its instructions. The army of engineers that designed and stress-tested the thing know better than 50+ year old colloquial "wisdom" and marketing. Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 19:39
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theHUNGERian posted:I need a sanity check. This seems high to me considering that I'm regularly seeing same price on 30k mile 2012 Premium examples in the Frozen Northeast where Subarus command a high price premium. I would offer 21,5 OTD and walk.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:26
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:This seems high to me considering that I'm regularly seeing same price on 30k mile 2012 Premium examples in the Frozen Northeast where Subarus command a high price premium. I had a feeling I would be overpaying, but they wouldn't buckle no matter how many times I pointed at the price given the maintenance record. In addition, neither KBB nor Edmunds suggested lower prices than that and so I had no ammo left to counter with lower numbers. I've had my eyes on these cars for the last two months (looking at dealerships between San Luis Obispo, Bakersfield, and Los Angeles including craigslist), and the cars I found either had rental history or they didn't come with a warranty or the owner didn't respond to my emails. I also failed to stand firm on the extended warranty. I was dead set on getting the car with just the CPO (Powertrain) warranty since extended warranties are considered to be extra profit streams for the car manufacturer. The finance guy offered me (starting from my purchase) 4y/40k mile bumper to bumper for $1500. With some carefully chosen words (I've spent too much time playing 'Diplomacy') I countered with $1000 and he accepted. At $250 per year for 4 years, I don't feel ripped off. I do feel that I left money on the table. But I only could have gotten that money with waiting (while driving a 237k mile beater daily driver [windows don't roll down, driver side door cannot be unlocked from outside, ...]), more 2-hour-long car rides to-and-from dealerships, and aggressive negotiating. And while I have no problem with aggressive negotiating, it does give me sleepless nights (I'm not joking). TLDR: I bought the car, and I'm glad to have retired my first car. Feel free to point out all the things I did wrong so others can learn. Thanks Prius thread. 
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Feb 12, 2015 04:24
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I'm pretty sure modern lawnmower engines have higher build quality than 1950 era motors. I went 20,000 miles between oil changes once in my 96' VW Jetta VR6, when I first got out in to the real world. Once you get past the break in period 5-7000 miles is probably a comfortable number, pushing 12,000 between regular intervals is perhaps too much.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:30
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IRQ posted:I've been told that with synthetic oil 10k miles is totally fine. I get mine done every year (about 5k miles for me, I hate commuting so I just move close to work), but I had no problems putting a ton of miles on my previous car, a camry between oil changes until it got to be like 20 years old and was burning diesel oil like a bastard. Basically, read your owners manual because it varies widely. Subaru reduced ej255/7s to 3750 on syn after a rash of turbo failures, for example. But yeah, most cars can do 5-10k depending.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:43
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theHUNGERian posted:I had a feeling I would be overpaying, but they wouldn't buckle no matter how many times I pointed at the price given the maintenance record. In addition, neither KBB nor Edmunds suggested lower prices than that and so I had no ammo left to counter with lower numbers. This goes against a lot of the advice I read on the web but I think it's hard to turn "dings" into price reductions like you were trying (this maintenance record is spotty, these seats smell funny, KBB says it should be cheaper, etc.) because A) salesmen are very well prepared with answers for all of these things and B) granting a price reduction over a specific ding is a sort of acknowledgement that the vehicle is lacking in some area. That runs contrary to what they're trained to do, which is to talk the car up. Even if you pointed out a flaw that was impossible to sugarcoat or rectify with a service contract or something, any subsequent price reduction would really only be because they had ground to give on the price and began to smell your disinterest- not because you made the right point and they rethought the worth of the car. You aren't negotiating the objective value of the car; KBB numbers and flaws are not real ammunition. Your ammunition is your willingness to walk away carless today if you don't like the number, simple as that, versus their willingness to wait for a better buyer. It needs no rational basis (though it will come under attack so it should be defensible). You're not there to convince them of how little their car is worth- they know exactly what was paid and how low they will go to unload it today. Their goal is to come down just enough to keep you from walking away empty handed, anything more would be leaving their own money on the table, so as long as you were sitting there they really had no motivation to come down any further. Pointing out flaws in the vehicle serves mainly to frame your ambivalence towards it (to make it clear you might walk) or to get the flaw rectified as part of the deal. For the salesperson there's no functional difference between a guy who simply offers $22k because it's all his wife will let him spend, and another offering $22k because they kicked all the tires and know the actual market value of the car. Actually, the first might be preferable because the salesperson can pose the price reduction as a favor to get the guy in the car he wants, both can participate in the happy customer/benevolent salesman conceit, and the customer will go tell his friends Chaz at Perry Ford really hooked me up versus the latter who would just tell people how he put the sales staff on the ropes and got them to reduce their wild markup.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:42
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Good post above me. The best negotiating position is to walk; any car that is likely to be bought by a person in this thread are produced in factories with loving thousands of identical cars. Now, if you're trying to buy a 1970 Renault Alpine A110 1600S the rules may not apply to you, but if you are trying to buy an Alpine you aren't in this thread.theHUNGERian posted:I had a feeling I would be overpaying, but they wouldn't buckle no matter how many times I pointed at the price given the maintenance record. In addition, neither KBB nor Edmunds suggested lower prices than that and so I had no ammo left to counter with lower numbers. I've had my eyes on these cars for the last two months (looking at dealerships between San Luis Obispo, Bakersfield, and Los Angeles including craigslist), and the cars I found either had rental history or they didn't come with a warranty or the owner didn't respond to my emails. I hope you read that warranty text carefully, and I can't help but feel you got fuckin smoked on the warranty even if it actually robust. If you drive 15k miles per year, you now have a warranty that will last you for 2.7 years and does not cover wear items. That seems like a poo poo deal to me. The guy probably would have gladly let you have the warranty for like $600. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 13:35
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Per advice from this thread, I started looking at private sellers for Priuses rather than dealers. My area's offerings were rather disappointing (I do not like San Antonio craigslist), so I extended my search further out. I hit up a few interesting listings, including a 2008 fully loaded model with 54k miles. The seller, about 2 hours away, was asking $11,500. I countered with $10,500 and they returned with $11,000. I purchased an AutoCheck subscription* to run the VIN, along with several others I was interested in. One owner, no accidents, no rental history, no fleet history, no pending liens. I (surprisingly) got them to agree to come to me and allow one of my favorite shops to perform a PPI on it. Am I on the right track here? Any additional advice? I feel like, since they're coming out this far to see me and make a sale, that I could probably pressure them into a lower price right after the PPI. *I highly suggest to anyone looking at private sellers to buy a 30 day subscription to AutoCheck or Carfax. I picked AutoCheck because it's cheaper. It's something like $60 and is a very, very good idea to arm yourself with more information. It saved me when I was looking for cars a while back. One seller lied about his Corvette having any accidents. I asked him when he got the car, then if it had any accidents. He replied "not while I've had the vehicle". Turns out that there WAS an accident involving a deer and having the car towed while the car was in his ownership. After I pointed that out, he stopped talking to me. That $60 subscription saved me thousands of dollars.
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Feb 12, 2015 14:16
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I might be inclined to take it to a Toyota dealer unless your local guy has specific knowledge of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive. The Prius is basically mechanically bulletproof outside of very low probability battery issues and I doubt Joe down the street has the equipment to evaluate the battery correctly.
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Feb 12, 2015 14:55
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I might be inclined to take it to a Toyota dealer unless your local guy has specific knowledge of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive. The Prius is basically mechanically bulletproof outside of very low probability battery issues and I doubt Joe down the street has the equipment to evaluate the battery correctly. This site is great to show what years of what models are problematic: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Prius/ I was thinking about getting a 2002 Prius for cheap until I read it has a mind of its own when it comes to steering These are the cars with the fewest problems in their database: http://www.carcomplaints.com/best_vehicles/ EugeneJ fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 15:34
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The first gen Prius is lovely anyway.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:43
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Good post above me. The best negotiating position is to walk; any car that is likely to be bought by a person in this thread are produced in factories with loving thousands of identical cars. Now, if you're trying to buy a 1970 Renault Alpine A110 1600S the rules may not apply to you, but if you are trying to buy an Alpine you aren't in this thread. I know that the odds are not in my favor since cars these days are more reliable than ever. I figured that one alternator/starter replacement will already bring me very close to being even. I drive closer to 10k/yr (only 7.5k last year).
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Feb 12, 2015 16:06
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I don't like spending money on extended warranties, because I feel like you're probably better served either A) self-warrantying (that is, save that money and spend it if there's a problem) or B) just adding that money to your budget and buying a modestly newer or better car. If a thousand bucks would have gotten you one model-year newer, your odds of having a mechanical problem drop precipitously, because the rate of mechanical failure on a car is not a straight line. E.g., a 2012 or 2013 is a lot less likely to have a mechanical failure in the next three years than a 2011 or 2010, all else being equal. I also don't like them because a lot of the warranties sold by used car dealers are basically scams run by scam companies, but that's a separate issue.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:37
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If you're not sure on the warranty... read the paperwork, it may have a cancellation clause.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:43
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theHUNGERian posted:I know that the odds are not in my favor since cars these days are more reliable than ever. I figured that one alternator/starter replacement will already bring me very close to being even. I drive closer to 10k/yr (only 7.5k last year). Does the warranty have a deductible?
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Feb 12, 2015 19:16
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Does the warranty have a deductible? $0. The only argument I had for the warranty was that the CPO powertrain warranty did not cover electrical components (starter, alternator, ...), hoses, and (at least one) gasket. On my previous car I've had to replace the starter/alternator/valve cover gasket within a ~5 year time frame although at a much higher mileage than my current car. And while I could do some of those repairs myself, I don't mind having someone else do the work while I watch a movie. Once the warranty expires, I will get my hands dirty again doing car repairs. If I understand correctly, there is a 90 day cancellation period, but I feel that $1k for 4 years of almost worry free operation is not a rip-off (although I realize they profited from this deal).
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Feb 13, 2015 04:34
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So you're covering for a very small percentage of not particularly failure prone and not particularly expensive parts? You can get an alternator replaced for less than a thousand bucks, and that's the most expensive job you've listed. Self insure. edit: I mean, do what you want. But it's a terrible financial decision.
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Feb 13, 2015 04:44
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:So you're covering for a very small percentage of not particularly failure prone and not particularly expensive parts? As I said above, I know that the odds are not in my favor. But $250 per year over the course of 4 years is not a disaster for me financially.
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Feb 13, 2015 05:48
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Forget odds, you're accepting the worst with that though- alternators run what, less than $200. You're paying up front for an alternator failure every 10 months for 4 years straight.
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Feb 13, 2015 05:54
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Remy Marathe posted:Forget odds, you're accepting the worst with that though- alternators run what, less than $200. You're paying up front for an alternator failure every 10 months for 4 years straight. I worry that I am derailing. Forget alternators and starters. I only used those as examples because to me those items would have counted to be part of the engine and therefore CPO warranty, but they are not. To me warranty is similar to insurance. I am deducting $x from each paycheck, not because I am expecting 'y heart attacks in the next z years', but because the slim chance of a big gently caress-up outweighs the cost of $x per paycheck. Similarly, for me, $250 per year for 4 years didn't seem awfully expensive. But I hear your point loud and clear, and I am glad I can still cancel it.
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Feb 13, 2015 06:13
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Most of the non-collision stuff (won't be covered by your warranty) that is expensive is covered by your powertrain warranty. There is almost nothing that can possibly go wrong with your car over the next four years in the supplemental coverage window of your warranty that will cost over$500, let alone $1000. I would highly advise setting aside that $1000 in a repair fund. You will end up far better off. This is a worthwhile conversation to have because lots of people make this mistake. Cars are more reliable now than they have ever been at any point in the history of manufacturing cars. Extended warranties are rarely worthwhile. Does the warranty cover wear items and corrosion?
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Feb 13, 2015 13:54
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Most of the non-collision stuff (won't be covered by your warranty) that is expensive is covered by your powertrain warranty. There is almost nothing that can possibly go wrong with your car over the next four years in the supplemental coverage window of your warranty that will cost over$500, let alone $1000. I would highly advise setting aside that $1000 in a repair fund. You will end up far better off. It does not cover wear items, and I think corrosion is covered elsewhere. Another argument the dealer had for the extended warranty was computer repair. They claimed that computer replacements are expensive, not because the computer is expensive but because removing the computer from the car takes time. I am not sure if my independent mechanic could do that particular job. But Truedelta shows zero people who have had this problem, so I wasn't buying that particular argument. However, they did show me a couple of recent work orders on recent cars that would have cost >$1k (some of them were over $4k), but the customer ended up paying $0 (warranty). But I realize that for every car that needs an expensive fix there are a hundred(?) cars that need no fixing at all.
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Feb 13, 2015 16:42
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theHUNGERian posted:It does not cover wear items, and I think corrosion is covered elsewhere. Another argument the dealer had for the extended warranty was computer repair. They claimed that computer replacements are expensive, not because the computer is expensive but because removing the computer from the car takes time. I am not sure if my independent mechanic could do that particular job.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:34
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Cross posting from the Newbie Personal Finance Thread:Mocking Bird posted:So, how do I manage this without being bad with money: Follow up: Mocking Bird posted:
So what do you guys think? Should I keep on keeping on with this piece of poo poo, give it away, sell it, junk it? Buy new, buy used, buy a pony? It's so hard to talk to people IRL about car buying, because they legit ask me things like "how much of a monthly payment can you afford? How about a lexus?"
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Feb 13, 2015 21:05
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 effort-post incoming.Anyone saying "cash for clunkers" these days is just marketing. The official program ended years ago, and would never have applied to a Civic since the gas mileage is way too good. The entire goal of that program was to try and pull low-MPG vehicles off of the roads while selling more new cars. It's a Civic. It could be literally missing major components and you'd probably still have people tripping over each other to give you $1000 for it. It's still a running driving car, it's a Civic, it's less than 20 years old, it's a Civic, it's got a sick racing stripe, it's a Civic... In case you haven't noticed, it's a Civic. Literally every $1000-or-less Civic I'm finding on my local Craigslist is older and has worse problems than you've described. So get it out of your head that some shithead car "salesman" is being so generous by lowballing the gently caress out of you on your trade, no matter how rough it is. List it on CL for $1500 as-is and take the first offer over $1k. I know you said "the state" but I am having a really hard time imagining any state that's willing to give you $1000 to get something as clean as a Civic off the roads. If you're looking for the save-the-most-money approach, it's still always cheaper to keep the car you have than it is to replace it. A lovely Maaco job won't be as good as the OEM paint was, but it'd be better than what you've got now. Nothing you've described beyond that is something that can't be fixed to be drat near back to OEM at a reasonable dollar amount. But, if you want a new(er) car, get a new(er) car. Anyone who makes a blanket statement that "all new cars depreciate x% off the lot" clearly hasn't looked for a used car in the past three years because that's just not the case anymore. I bought a new Honda CR-V in 2013 because at that time a used 2012 with 20,000 miles was still listing within $500 of MSRP on a brand-new 2013. The Honda Fit might be the single highest-resale-value car on the road, and seeing 1-2 year old ones selling within spitting distance of brand new Fits is a story you'll find over and over in this thread. There are other cars that do depreciate more and it might make more sense for you to get one thats a few years old... but if you want to buy new, buy new. If you want to see a worst-case price, use Truecar.com. You can probably beat it with some negotiating, but anyone who can work a website can get at least that pricing. As to "can you afford it"? Well, if you've got $1k of extra cash laying around every month, you sure as poo poo can afford the car payment, gas, and the extremely low amounts of maintenance any modern car (that is not a Fiat) will require. Insurance is the only question mark since a lot of that depends on where you are and your personal record. Keep in mind that if you have a loan you must have comprehensive and collision, typically with no more than a $500 deductible. Interest-rate wise, if your credit is at all decent, you should be able to get 1.9% or less through the financing arm of any manufacturer, often for up to 60 months. At that point you should really just plan on paying as little as possible into a down payment, since unless you're just going to leave it in a savings account, you can do better than 0.9%-1.9% with the down payment elsewhere instead of putting it into the car right away. Even if you can afford the car cash, you should probably finance it, because why tie up $20k into a car instead of actual investments?
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Feb 13, 2015 22:22
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IOwnCalculus posted:
I love effort posts, please do so always  (completely serious)I live in California, so no joke it is a state bureau offering me $1000 to retire my vehicle: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/avrp/avrpeo.htm How much would one expect to pay for a paint job? Would it be the whole car, or could I just paint the affected panels? Hmm... I have full coverage/comprehensive/collision etc insurance with a good deductible through USAA for about $75 a month. My credit is around 720, so not perfect but certainly still good. This doesn't leave me feeling less conflicted about what I should actually do  It's so much money to put into a car to buy new, 10x what I paid for this clunker.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:46
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