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moths posted:You have to wonder if Adnan would enjoy this much support if the podcast had focused as much on Hae as it did on her poor convicted murderer's side of the story. Well two things: They paid Hae the most respect they could, but without the understandable involvement of her family then there wasn't a lot they could do. They painted a picture of who she was but that's about it. I'm not sure there's that much more they could tell. The air a few pieces that sounded bad for Adnan in interviews (There's Hae's friend who outright says that he was possessive). But there's also the episode where he tells them there is 100% no way that he could've driven from the school to X location in the time stated, yet they do it. And there's also the very vocal producer who weighs everything up and says that either Adnan did it or he's the world's unluckiest person. I'm sure that as the podcast gained traction there were a lot of people will to speak up for or against Adnan, but you can't just broadcast everything. And at the end of the day he was well liked. He was a popular kid. I don't think there's a smoking gun interview laying around anywhere that's just waiting to be heard. But even bigger than that there's a mention in one of the first episodes that what you find is people going from "Well Adnan was a great kid." and then when he's convicted it's "Oh well there was something about him I just knew it.". The trick is to not only get people to talk who are relevant to the case in some way, but who also seem genuine in their opinion.
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Feb 10, 2015 12:20
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...wait. This is real? I binged on Serial during the past week's commutes and quiet times at work on the recommendation of my cousin. I thought it was just a super elaborate mystery. I'm supposed to meet with her in a couple hours to talk about the show and catch a movie, and now I'm freaking the gently caress out. Holy poo poo. Carry on, thread. 
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Feb 10, 2015 12:54
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coolskillrex remix posted:No its probably rooted in how normal Adnan sounds (and his classmates thought he was very normal too), yet was able to snap and do something so completely savage to a girl he claimed to love. Its one thing for the weird brooding kid to do that, its another for a kid who plays football and is on track and is smart and smokes pot all the time. I really hope you're never on a jury, because lol Daikatana Ritsu fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 13:07
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Fruits of the sea posted:...wait. This is real? I binged on Serial during the past week's commutes and quiet times at work on the recommendation of my cousin. I thought it was just a super elaborate mystery. I'm supposed to meet with her in a couple hours to talk about the show and catch a movie, and now I'm freaking the gently caress out. Holy poo poo. How the gently caress..
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Feb 10, 2015 16:28
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Fruits of the sea posted:...wait. This is real? I binged on Serial during the past week's commutes and quiet times at work on the recommendation of my cousin. I thought it was just a super elaborate mystery. I'm supposed to meet with her in a couple hours to talk about the show and catch a movie, and now I'm freaking the gently caress out. Holy poo poo. I don't understand how you listened to the whole show and didn't realize it was a real story. I think I might be more mindfucked at that fact than you are at realizing it was real.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:43
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There isn't even anything in there to make you think it isn't real...it would be more shocking to listen to the whole thing as it stands have it turn out to be fake.  I have to assume he was only half-listening. To the entire thing.
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Feb 10, 2015 16:47
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DrVenkman posted:Well two things: Well to be fair, they did do it, but BARELY and only if they were going at a mad dash across town with absolutely no hiccups. If I remember right they did the whole route with like barely a minute to spare, and that is assuming the Best Buy story is the correct one. It was POSSIBLE, but unlikely. I feel like this is one of the weakest part of the states story, just kind of making up an alternate timeline to fit the prosecutors case.
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Feb 10, 2015 17:04
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Jastiger posted:a mad dash across town I thought that the Best Buy was actually really close to the high school.
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Feb 10, 2015 17:13
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DrVenkman posted:Well two things: A lot of what I mean is how the information is presented. Specifically, "sounds good for Adnan" stuff is given through source-interviews, but "well maybe this doesn't look so good for Adnan I just don't know" information is glossed over in a second-hand sort of way. The thing about Hae is that she's never really brought up as a person. Her friends aren't interviewed, her family isn't interviewed, she's basically a non-entity for most of the show. We know more about Mister S, the lunchtime drunk streaker who found the body, than we do Hae. And when her diary's read, the only input she has on Serial, parts are omitted to make Adnan sound good. Another example is how Serial doesn't tell us "the rumor" because SK couldn't substantiate it. But then she goes on to give airtime to a completely unsubstantiated first-hand account of how totally cool Syed was in Gym class. The driving to Best Buy thing was confusing. When I was in school, if you had somewhere to be afterward you'd park a block off campus and avoid like 90% of the traffic. Adnan's claim that he was totally over Hae and already dating other girls is accepted at face value, despite the girls never being named. Asia's other library friends are also accepted at face value, and never named. Compare this to the team of interns, sent to scour AT&T records for a fart of a chance that a butt-dial might get billed. moths fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 18:43
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moths posted:
I don't get this part, the producer DID say it herself.
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Feb 10, 2015 18:48
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Yeah I didn't remember that right at all.
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Feb 10, 2015 18:55
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moths posted:A lot of what I mean is how the information is presented. Specifically, "sounds good for Adnan" stuff is given through source-interviews, but "well maybe this doesn't look so good for Adnan I just don't know" information is glossed over in a second-hand sort of way. Thing is they do try to get to Hae as a person, and I'm not sure why you think her friends aren't interviewed there's the one who talks about how possessive Adnan was (Which he then denies). Her family wanted nothing to do with the podcast, and you have to remember that there's a lot of people who probably didn't want to talk to begin with. They do the best they can, which is to paint her as a fairly average teenage girl with teenage girl feelings. I think I remember speculation about the rumour. It was something they heard second hand about an incident at a party, so they ask the person involved who told them they have no recollection of it. I believe she also mentions there were stories they were told about Jay or Jenn that they didn't air either for similar reasons. A guy saying "I was in gym class with him and he was awesome." is a hell of a lot different than airing something in which the other person who was involved can't remember or corroborate. The car thing granted isn't the best, but they still do it, this is after Adnan is convinced that it couldn't possibly be done. It was in interesting deflating of the argument. You're forgetting that these people might not want to be named. Who would want to be named as the ex-girlfriend of a convicted killer? I don't think Serial can just go giving people's names out so that we can fact check for them. Amusingly, and as an aside, Ira Glass thinks Adnan did it.
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Feb 10, 2015 19:36
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DrVenkman posted:A guy saying "I was in gym class with him and he was awesome." is a hell of a lot different than airing something in which the other person who was involved can't remember or corroborate. Really it's not, though. Both are unverified statements, it's just that the one sounds harmless so they ran it. And that's what I'm trying (poorly) to get at: the cumulative effect of all these harmless Adnan fluff facts is the impression that hey, he really is an ok guy they should let him go. I'm fortunate to have only known one killer* but it's kinda the same thing. They seem like normal people, they smile, they joke, they have normal human reactions to stuff. Because they ARE normal people, they just did something really hosed up once. It's not plastered all over their every action like you'd expect from media. Serial definitely played the angle that Syed was a normal guy, and that proves nothing, but it eats a lot of airtime and leaves an impression. I keep reading is that there wasn't enough to convict, which is confusing because (according to the jury and judge) there was. And the argument that he had incompetent council doesn't exactly mesh with the polling that he was winning the first trial. *I suppose it could have been two, but the other guy's boss survived getting shot in the head.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:14
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moths posted:I keep reading is that there wasn't enough to convict, which is confusing because (according to the jury and judge) there was. You're talking about the American justice system here?
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Feb 10, 2015 20:20
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stickyfngrdboy posted:You're talking about the American justice system here? Do you have a point to make? There was plenty of evidence to convict and saying otherwise just betrays ones knowledge of the judicial system.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:40
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moths posted:
Always fun to get a Just Worlder IRL. I don't know whether Adnan did it or not but to pretend like this is a slam dunk case is to fool yourself. African AIDS cum posted:Do you have a point to make? There was plenty of evidence to convict and saying otherwise just betrays ones knowledge of the judicial system. I knew you'd be back here after you couldn't flog your delusional Seahawks fan TFF gimmick any more.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:43
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Tater Love 
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Anyone who thinks the fact that the jury convicted means that the evidence was clearly and obviously convincing beyond a reasonable doubt should go check out the jury thread in Ask/Tell. I'm sure there are also plenty of juries that set aside all bias as best they can and carefully consider each piece of evidence, but it's a fact that there are jurors who will vote to convict for reasons that don't have much to do with the specifics of the case. Adnan's jury may well have convicted a murderer, but the fact that they convicted him is not proof that the case was great with no holes to speak of.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:53
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zakharov posted:Always fun to get a Just Worlder IRL. I mean in the sense that people are looking at a collapsed roof, saying there wasn't enough snow to do that. There was enough for everybody on the jury.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:56
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moths posted:I mean in the sense that people are looking at a collapsed roof, saying there wasn't enough snow to do that. Yes, and juries are often wrong, or misled, or racist, or just dumb. That's why we have mechanisms to reverse convictions. Did the jury get it wrong here? I don't know! A roof collapse happens because of the laws of physics, which are a lot harder to fool than a jury.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:04
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There was enough to convict these guys too.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:05
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moths posted:Really it's not, though. Both are unverified statements, it's just that the one sounds harmless so they ran it. No I don't think you can say both are the same. One is coming out of the mouth of a person, much like a character witness would do at a trial. The other is a story that they were told second hand, and that if they spoke to X then he would confirm it because he was the other party involved. They go to X who says that nope, that thing never occurred. Think about it, why would they tell you that story only to get to the end and say "Well it didn't matter anyway because it turns out that story was a fabrication." I get where you're coming from, but they have to paint a portrait of Adnan. Some of it is positive, some of it isn't. I'd actually like to hear more from the original trial. But remember that it would've had a different jury, and one of the jurors who convicted Adnan admitted that they took the decision to not put him on the stand as skewing toward him being guilty, even though they're not supposed to do that. I suspect that if you did it again with another jury you couldn't say for sure whether they'd convict him or not. But still, I wonder if there were any major differences in his defence between the first and second trial.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:11
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African AIDS cum posted:Do you have a point to make? There was plenty of evidence to convict and saying otherwise just betrays ones knowledge of the judicial system. The point is that juries are occasionally wrong.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:17
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stickyfngrdboy posted:The point is that juries are occasionally wrong. Lets keep it specific to this case, do you think this jury is wrong, if so how? Haven't seen anything compelling yet.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:18
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You're talking about a system which, in recent history, convicted and executed an innocent man. Infallible it is not.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:18
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You're arguing with a gimmick.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:19
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African AIDS cum posted:Lets keep it specific to this case, do you think this jury is wrong, if so how? Haven't seen anything compelling yet. Oh well I've seen nothing that would lead me to reach a verdict of guilty beyond reasonable doubt, which is supposed to be the standard.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:20
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zakharov posted:You're arguing with a gimmick. Im not a gimmick!
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Feb 10, 2015 21:21
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stickyfngrdboy posted:Oh well I've seen nothing that would lead me to reach a verdict of guilty beyond reasonable doubt, which is supposed to be the standard. I posted this before, but there is an eye witness who ties Adnan to the murder, and that eye witness had special knowledge of the murder. There's also cell phone records tying Adnan to the place the body was buried during the time it was buried. That is far far beyond reasonable doubt.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:22
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stickyfngrdboy posted:Im not a gimmick! Not you.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:22
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African AIDS cum posted:I posted this before, but there is an eye witness who ties Adnan to the murder, and that eye witness had special knowledge of the murder. There's also cell phone records tying Adnan to the place the body was buried during the time it was buried. That is far far beyond reasonable doubt. There's an eye witness that puts him in the library at the time of the murder. The cell phone records tie the phone, not the person, to the cell tower.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:24
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I am looking forward to this thread when the appeal goes nowhere and Adnan is in jail for the rest of his life, because that is what is going to happen. He did it, friends.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:25
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zakharov posted:Not you. African aids cum is one of my best ever posters though.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:25
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stickyfngrdboy posted:There's an eye witness that puts him in the library at the time of the murder. The cell phone records tie the phone, not the person, to the cell tower. That eye witness was coerced by the family and has 0 credibility and the defense lawyer didn't even bother having her testify. Complete fraud.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:26
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Kelly posted:I am looking forward to this thread when the appeal goes nowhere and Adnan is in jail for the rest of his life, because that is what is going to happen. You're probably not going to see whatever reaction you're imagining. I'm pretty sure there are a lot more people here who think the case wasn't strong enough to merit conviction but he still could have done it than there are die-hard supporters of his innocence. You might be thinking of Reddit.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:30
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African AIDS cum posted:That eye witness was coerced by the family and has 0 credibility and the defense lawyer didn't even bother having her testify. Complete fraud. Well if we're just dismissing witnesses we don't like the main witness, whoever he was, the drug fella, can be discounted immediately because there is a massive gap between recorded interviews, over two hours i think, where police had every opportunity to fabricate a story. Not that I'm suggesting the police in wherever it happened were corrupt at all but lol of course they were.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:31
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effervescible posted:You're probably not going to see whatever reaction you're imagining. I'm pretty sure there are a lot more people here who think the case wasn't strong enough to merit conviction but he still could have done it than there are die-hard supporters of his innocence. You might be thinking of Reddit. There are several pages from just the last couple days with people here arguing over the case that I have found entertaining - so this is definitely the place I am thinking of.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:32
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stickyfngrdboy posted:Well if we're just dismissing witnesses we don't like the main witness, whoever he was, the drug fella, can be discounted immediately because there is a massive gap between recorded interviews, over two hours i think, where police had every opportunity to fabricate a story. Well you are speaking in hypotheticals and myths and I'm dealing with facts here. Bottom line, Adnan did it and was rightly convicted. He will never get out.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:33
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Kelly posted:There are several pages from just the last couple days with people here arguing over the case that I have found entertaining - so this is definitely the place I am thinking of. Well if all you're looking for is goons arguing with and sometimes past each other, yeah sure, you'll find that. Kinda low-hanging fruit, but you'll find it. But this Kelly posted:He did it, friends. made it sound like you think most of the people who don't believe he should have been convicted do believe he is definitely innocent, and I'm just not seeing that.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:38
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effervescible posted:Well if all you're looking for is goons arguing with and sometimes past each other, yeah sure, you'll find that. Kinda low-hanging fruit, but you'll find it. But this So, in other words I will find what I am looking for here. I don't even understand what you are saying in the second part way too intellectual for me. 
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Feb 10, 2015 21:42
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African AIDS cum posted:Well you are speaking in hypotheticals and myths and I'm dealing with facts here. Bottom line, Adnan did it and was rightly convicted. He will never get out. Your definition of 'facts' is certainly something.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:42
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