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LordSaturn posted:Went and checked my sources, found a Cranial Insertion about it, which agrees with you, and which I thought I'd post for interest: Further, Otherworldly Juorney and Cloudshift will bring it back just fine, even if you for some reason chose to put it to command zone.
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Feb 10, 2015 19:19
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mehall posted:Further, Otherworldly Juorney and Cloudshift will bring it back just fine, even if you for some reason chose to put it to command zone. Why you would is a mystery, since wouldn't bringing it back from the command zone count as "casting it from the command zone" thus jacking up the casting cost again?
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Feb 10, 2015 19:23
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theironjef posted:Why you would is a mystery, since wouldn't bringing it back from the command zone count as "casting it from the command zone" thus jacking up the casting cost again? No, because you wouldn't be casting it. It is just returned to the battlefield. E: I don't know why you would want to send it to the command zone despite that.
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Feb 10, 2015 19:33
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Well there was that ludicrous corner case with O-Ring I was thinking about, but it only works because O-Ring is a permanent. Besides that and Pyxis of Pandemonium, is there a list of ways to permanently kick a commander out of the game?
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Feb 10, 2015 19:49
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theironjef posted:Well there was that ludicrous corner case with O-Ring I was thinking about, but it only works because O-Ring is a permanent. There are probably some convoluted things you could do with Stifle and Memory Jar type effects.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:12
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theironjef posted:is there a list of ways to permanently kick a commander out of the game?
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Feb 10, 2015 20:12
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Anyone here play commander online? Would be cool to have other people than randoms to play against for a change.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:53
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I counted the tutors and counterspells in my horrible infinite Oona deck and only found 3 and 5 respectively. Now I'm up to 7 and 15, and things are much more broken and wonderful. Goldfishing I hit a lethal combo backed by counters on t5 once in a while, and pretty reliably by t10 or so.
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Feb 10, 2015 20:57
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Mikujin posted:Only things that exile cards/permanents face down can permanently get rid of commanders. Every other method is temporary (sticks them in a library) or is covered under the catch-all that allows you to move commanders to the command zone instead of the graveyard/exile. What about my corner case with O-ring, Ugin, and a kill spell? O-Ring targeting commander, player chooses to let the Commander sit in Exile because he has a Disenchant or something, is an idiot. Ugin comes into play and uses his -2 to flip O-Ring. O-Ring doesn't leave play, so the effect doesn't trigger. Player casts Pyroclasm, killing the 2/2 flipped O-Ring. It leaves play, but it doesn't know it's an O-Ring, so it doesn't do the Exile check. Commanders heading to the Command Zone is a replacement effect, and can only occur when there's an effect to replace. So it doesn't get a second chance to leave Exile, and is now permanently stuck there. Am I missing something somewhere in there? If anything, it'd probably be that flipping counts as leaving the battlefield, but I couldn't find that ruling.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:00
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Tim Raines IRL posted:I counted the tutors and counterspells in my horrible infinite Oona deck and only found 3 and 5 respectively. Decklist please, I need that in my life.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:01
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theironjef posted:What about my corner case with O-ring, Ugin, and a kill spell? You're missing that Ugin doesn't flip things.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:02
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suicidesteve posted:You're missing that Ugin doesn't flip things. poo poo did I accidentally look at an old fake Ugin? My bad. But the question still exists, just replace Ugin's role with an Opalescence on the table and an Ixidron coming into play. theironjef fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 21:03
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theironjef posted:poo poo did I accidentally look at an old fake Ugin? My bad. But the question still exists, just replace Ugin's role with an Opalescence on the table and an Ixidron coming into play. That should work, but it'd be a lot easier to set up Wash Out + Memory Jar + Stifle.
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Feb 10, 2015 21:44
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theironjef posted:poo poo did I accidentally look at an old fake Ugin? My bad. But the question still exists, just replace Ugin's role with an Opalescence on the table and an Ixidron coming into play. So yes, in your magical christmasland yes, you can permanently exile a commander. In practicality, though, it's not going to happen. Tucking a commander is really the best you can hope for. thetedster posted:That should work, but it'd be a lot easier to set up Wash Out + Memory Jar + Stifle. Mikujin fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 21:45
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Mikujin posted:So yes, in your magical christmasland yes, you can permanently exile a commander. In practicality, though, it's not going to happen. Tucking a commander is really the best you can hope for. Well yeah, no one was talking about practical applications. I meant literally ways to permanently kick out a commander, I didn't care if they were high-functioning.
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Feb 10, 2015 22:04
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You could just Stifle the return trigger of the Oblivion Ring. In practice, the only way I've ever seen a commander get exiled properly is with the help of Mindslaver...
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Feb 10, 2015 22:38
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hoobajoo posted:Decklist please, I need that in my life. Sure, http://pastebin.com/JMmFGhKx This hasn't been playtested (aside from goldfish) since I made a lot of changes, so it's still pretty rough. A couple notes: * land base seems good * transmute spells can all find demonic tutor lim-dums vault, so that's their main purpose. In the rare case where all I need is Karn's Touch or Pili-Pala, they can do that, too. * Pili-Pala draws instant hate and there's no way to give it haste, so that's probably the most frail combo and is not worth attempting unless you have strong counters to back it * oddly, "hardcast enter the infinite and then pass turn" is something I've done a couple times, and so Foil and Force of Will are partly there to be surefire counters in that case. So, Pact of Negation is probably good, too. edit: I just playtested this against a Prossh deck that I'd been having trouble with and yes, this is now broken and terrible/wonderful. Game 1: lose to a hasty prossh infinite combo turn on turn 5 after opponent had ludicrous acceleration. That said, I would have won off of Braingeyser the next turn. Game 2: win to dream halls / enter the infinite t5 Game 3: stall game with 5 counters in a row, win on t7 off of dream halls / enter the infinite. So it's "good", not what I'd call "fun" for my playgroup, but I'll keep tweaking this for 1v1 at my LGS. edit2: on my walk home, I realized that taking Dark Ritual out of this deck was a mistake. It has mostly been in there for random acceleration which seemed lovely, but it serves a purpose, and here's why: * In the case where I have resolved Dream Halls/Enter The Infinite without any meaningful combo pieces on board, I need a mana source to hardcast stuff like Mana Vault that can't be dreamed in. * If I'm using Oona I need 1 black source per opponent. In practice, I've won one or two multiplayer and two or thing single player matches with variants of this deck, and I've only used Oona once or twice, so it might be just as reasonable to play it as a Lazav or Syd deck and just treat Oona as another searchable card. I would be interested to hear what people think the useless cards in this deck are. I'm not nuts abou Karn's Touch or Toymaker because they end up being dead cards most of the time; Pili-Pala is at worst a warm body, and an okay distraction/hate magnet if a bad combo piece. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 22:54
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Mikujin posted:Actually, since you brought it up, any Wish effects will actually allow you get your commander back, since you can view all cards you own outside the game (which includes those exiled by jar). As per commander rules, if you can look at such a card and it is a commander you must reveal it and it returns to its owner's command zone. Exiled is still in the game; the exile zone is a zone just like the command zone or the graveyard. It just feels like it's removed from the game because so few cards interact with exile.
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Feb 11, 2015 01:21
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Mikujin posted:Only things that exile cards/permanents face down can permanently get rid of commanders. Every other method is temporary (sticks them in a library) or is covered under the catch-all that allows you to move commanders to the command zone instead of the graveyard/exile. An important caveat to this is that the effect must exile the card face down and players may not look at the cards. If you can look at a face down exiled card rule 903.13 forces you to look at it and return it to a player's command zone if it is their commander. Pyxis of pandemonium works, but praetor's grasp doesn't.
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Feb 11, 2015 01:53
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So Lapse of Certainty + Pyxis will nuke a commander forever despite everyone knowing full well where it is?
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Feb 11, 2015 02:29
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Archenteron posted:So Lapse of Certainty + Pyxis will nuke a commander forever despite everyone knowing full well where it is? That is correct.
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Feb 11, 2015 02:38
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hoobajoo posted:Exiled is still in the game; the exile zone is a zone just like the command zone or the graveyard. It just feels like it's removed from the game because so few cards interact with exile.
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Feb 11, 2015 06:27
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I just opened an Ugin and I'm trying to decide if he makes more sense in my Jund Prossh token madness deck or in my mono-white Nahiri swords/equipment deck. Suggestions?
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Feb 11, 2015 09:11
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MMD3 posted:I just opened an Ugin and I'm trying to decide if he makes more sense in my Jund Prossh token madness deck or in my mono-white Nahiri swords/equipment deck. Nahiri, since his sweeper ability will at least leave all your equipment unscathed (barring something like Godsend)
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Feb 11, 2015 13:44
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MMD3 posted:I just opened an Ugin and I'm trying to decide if he makes more sense in my Jund Prossh token madness deck or in my mono-white Nahiri swords/equipment deck. Ulamog. 
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Feb 11, 2015 13:56
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C-Euro posted:Nahiri, since his sweeper ability will at least leave all your equipment unscathed (barring something like Godsend) Agreed. He will eat all of your tokens in Prossh. I run him in my Sen Triplets deck, where much of the time my board presence is full of 6 drop colored permanents and artifacts. I managed to get him on the battlefield with starting loyalty 3 times in the last game I played and pretty much wiped out one of my opponents, though the other was playing Daretti so he didn't do as much work on that side of the battlefield.
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Feb 11, 2015 14:50
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So I just built my first Commander deck with Melek at the helm. Seems like a pretty fun format but I only have one friend to run it against and he hasn't done much but tinker with the Teferi precon I got him. We did have a hilarious moment where my Eye of the Storm got ridiculous and everything devolved into chaos, so that was nice.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:20
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Kooriken posted:So I just built my first Commander deck with Melek at the helm. Seems like a pretty fun format but I only have one friend to run it against and he hasn't done much but tinker with the Teferi precon I got him. We did have a hilarious moment where my Eye of the Storm got ridiculous and everything devolved into chaos, so that was nice. I've had 2 Rituals, Pact of the Titan, Ponder, Preordain, and Thirst for Knowledge on Eye of the Storm (all of those spells had been cast in the same turn as the Eye) and cast Empty the Warrens for approximately infinite. My biggest regret was that I didn't find Mind's Desire. I passed the turn to my friend who cast Insurrection.  The deck's sweet, but I'm 100% sure it's not built very well.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:32
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A coworker was telling me about Tiny Leaders, so I proxied up a super generic white build. This is actually a really cool format. I managed to beat his geist deck (though neither of us had sideboards), and now am itching to build a deck that isn't just the white section of a cube. I'm a bit disappointed Survival of the Fittest is banned, but there are still lots of cool things floating around. e: Something like this kinda sounds sweet. Lhet fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 04:46
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Lhet posted:A coworker was telling me about Tiny Leaders, so I proxied up a super generic white build. This is actually a really cool format. I managed to beat his geist deck (though neither of us had sideboards), and now am itching to build a deck that isn't just the white section of a cube. I'm a bit disappointed Survival of the Fittest is banned, but there are still lots of cool things floating around.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:02
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I've roughed out an athreos tiny leaders deck, any obvious improvements? I guess I ought to put in the infinite life gain combo?? http://deckbox.org/sets/879509
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Feb 12, 2015 23:14
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Anyone have experience with Relentless Rats in commander? It seems like it would be fun the first few times, but might get boring depending on the card choices. I assume Marrow-Gnawer is the commander of choice. Edit: say that because I've played Krenko for a while, and I like it a lot but it ended up playing the same in a lot of games. Also, how many Relentless Rats is the right number for a rats deck? STANKBALLS TASTYLEGS fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 00:07
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Fiend Computer posted:
96.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:32
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Fiend Computer posted:Anyone have experience with Relentless Rats in commander? It seems like it would be fun the first few times, but might get boring depending on the card choices. I assume Marrow-Gnawer is the commander of choice. Here's my list for a Rats deck. Mutavault and Urborg should be in the main now though.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:38
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Fiend Computer posted:Also, how many Relentless Rats is the right number for a rats deck? I played 35 Shadowborn Apostles. Rats may or may not be the same.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:43
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Cernunnos posted:Here's my list for a Rats deck. Out of curiosity, what advantages do cards like Dirty Wererat or Nezumi Ronin have over more (Personally I would probably cut a whole bunch of stuff for more chittering rats and a thrumming stone because that sounds hilarious) vv Yeah I meant Relentless, not sure why I typed Chittering  vv
Elyv fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 00:50
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Mostly variety. And yeah adding more Relentless Rats (Chittering Rats doesn't have the unrestricted clause) and throwing in a Thrumming Stone could be hilarious.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:55
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Cernunnos posted:Mostly variety. And yeah adding more Relentless Rats (Chittering Rats doesn't have the unrestricted clause) and throwing in a Thrumming Stone could be hilarious. When I got it and Shadowborn Apostle in the same place, I eventually just gave up on all the ripples because I had twelve apostles on the board and like twenty ripple 4s still waiting to resolve.
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Feb 13, 2015 01:14
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Cernunnos posted:Mostly variety. And yeah adding more Relentless Rats (Chittering Rats doesn't have the unrestricted clause) and throwing in a Thrumming Stone could be hilarious. My friend ran this deck. Thrumming Stone was quickly destroyed and he was killed in almost every game.
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Feb 13, 2015 01:15
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Elyv posted:Out of curiosity, what advantages do cards like Dirty Wererat or Nezumi Ronin have over more Yeah, that was a build I was thinking of going for, but looking at all the rats on gatherer, as well as the list Cernunnos posted, makes me feel like have a discard build could be really powerful. A lot of the various rats have discard affects during attack, so I feel like that would be an interesting way of going at it. Marrow-Gnawer also gives a good synergy, making the rats harder to block. I'll have make a list once I get some time.
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Feb 13, 2015 04:59
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