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VitalSigns posted:Wait, you've talked to people who say the Democrats were the KKK in the sixties, but they're not Democrat anymore because the party changed? I've heard at least one make the argument that the KKK were "progressives" (since some sympathizers in the 1920s called themselves that) and thus it was the liberal wing of the Dems that advocated lynching. It's far from intellectually honest, but there you go.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:20
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Limbaugh is incredibly butt hurt about all the praise Jon Stewart is getting.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:54
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Limbaugh is incredibly butt hurt about all the praise Jon Stewart is getting. I'm sure he has a pill or two for that.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:56
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ProperGanderPusher posted:I've heard at least one make the argument that the KKK were "progressives" (since some sympathizers in the 1920s called themselves that) and thus it was the liberal wing of the Dems that advocated lynching. It's far from intellectually honest, but there you go. Socialism? Let me tell you about the National Socialists, hmm?
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Feb 11, 2015 19:59
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Limbaugh is incredibly butt hurt about all the praise Jon Stewart is getting. Guy at my office was similarly butthurt. "He's an ENTERTAINER. Not a NEWSMAN. Now where will liberals get their fake news??"
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Feb 11, 2015 20:01
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joepinetree posted:It was a little bit different than that. Abbate was teaching about Rawl's equal liberty principle, and someone brought up the example of gay marriage and why it should be legal. Abbate asked if anyone objected to the example, and no one did. A student then showed up after class to ask why didn't Abbate challenge the gay marriage example. He also recorded the conversation and then took it to McAdams, who then claimed Abbate was censoring the student. But the student never brought up the example in class, when Abbate asked about it, and was clearly trolling afterwards to get a reaction (since he was recording the conversation without Abbate's knowledge). Christ. Yeah, this was what I was trying to get at in my first post - the circumstances of how the argument came to light weren't clear to me when I skimmed the piece at first, and I was trying to get at just how impossible it is to have any sort of honest discussion in the media about academic freedom, dissent, and polemic in a college classroom. The average conservative TV news viewer is so far removed from the concerns and mentality of a professor, graduate student, or even college student that the information will never be presented in an incisive way. It's inevitably going to be misrepresented and any complexity or nuance completely glossed over.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:26
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Cognac McCarthy posted:Christ. Yeah, this was what I was trying to get at in my first post - the circumstances of how the argument came to light weren't clear to me when I skimmed the piece at first, and I was trying to get at just how impossible it is to have any sort of honest discussion in the media about academic freedom, dissent, and polemic in a college classroom. The average conservative TV news viewer is so far removed from the concerns and mentality of a professor, graduate student, or even college student that the information will never be presented in an incisive way. It's inevitably going to be misrepresented and any complexity or nuance completely glossed over. That is the absurd thing. This whole thing started not because Abbate prevented a student from speaking out against same sex marriage, but because Abatte did not question a student using a principle taught in class to say that same sex marriage should be legal. Then the kid essentially trolled Abatte after class until she said she would not tolerate homophobic statements in class. Somehow Abatte not defending same sex marriage bans in class (while opening the discussion for students to speak up) turns into "liberal forces students to accept same sex marriage."
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Feb 11, 2015 21:04
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Goatman Sacks posted:http://video.foxnews.com/v/4044995818001/university-of-michigans-inclusive-language-push/#sp=show-clips Saw that this morning. “crazy,” “insane,” Eh, I think it's overreaching but I can see the perspective of wanting to nor be an rear end in a top hat to those who may have family, friends or themselves have mental health issues. Also it probably doesn't help that we have such a negative stigma about going to seek mental health. “retarded,” Yeah this word should die off. Everyone has met someone with Downs or whom is Mentally Challenged. They deserve better than to be used as a slur. “gay,” “tranny,” “gypped,” “illegal alien,” “fag,” “ghetto” and “raghead,” Yeah all of those are super uncool as well. I don't understand the issue of just flat out having the policy of not being an "rear end in a top hat". I was even taught by conservative leaning professors in college (albeit fiscally) who would agree that poo poo wouldn't be cool in their class room. I was also rather amazed how they were able to tie the Brian Williams scandal to Hillary Clinton when I was watching. "SEE THE MEDIA HAS A DOUBLE STANDARD". Yeah okay.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:13
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FuzzySkinner posted:Saw that this morning. It actually suddenly made sense to me why more people weren't willing to call him out on obvious puffery. Count me as someone not amazed at all.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:43
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FuzzySkinner posted:“retarded,” Yeah this word should die off. Everyone has met someone with Downs or whom is Mentally Challenged. They deserve better than to be used as a slur. "The halon retarded the fire's spread." 
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Feb 11, 2015 21:44
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I wouldn't have half the problem I do with "illegal (alien)" if the Fox News crowd didn't visibly arouse themselves every time they used it. It's not good but "what do we call them?", beyond the context of a straight up racial slur, is so far down the list of my concerns regarding Mexican immigration it feels downright silly to discuss it at length. Like sure I'll trade you the use of "illegal alien" for "let them call the cops without wondering if they're going to be sent to Guantanamo lite" Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 21:52
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Good Citizen posted:Mike Church just called for people to lock arms and prevent gay couples from entering the Alabama courthouses for marriage licenses. This is the same guy who regularly derides people as 'Lincoln lovers' "Supporting traditional marriage isn't anything like supporting segregation! I fail to see the parallels! Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go bar the entrance to some government buildings to keep undesirables from exercising their rights" fake edit: Tim Wise just spoke at my school a little bit ago and there was a discussion in the Q&A about the difference between southern racism and racism in places like Portland and Minneapolis. He said that the major difference is that, unlike the north, in the south, no one pretends like they don't know exactly whats going on, people just don't care or they actively support the racism. I guess that holds for homophobia, too.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:54
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Last night, in a Daily Show segment about Fox Pundits wishing that Obama was more like the king of Jordan, there were two talking heads lamenting Obama's inaction on ISIS, right next to an infographic about Amera carrying out 80% of he actions against them. I wonder if she'll get 6 months suspension for getting caught in such a blatant lie?
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Feb 11, 2015 22:04
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Periodiko posted:Socialism? Let me tell you about the National Socialists, hmm? I knew someone that tried to convince me that fascism and communism were one-and-the-same because everything goes to the state. I don't talk to him anymore.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:33
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Xibanya posted:"The halon retarded the fire's spread." We use the word "slow"  now.  The halon slowed the fire's spread."
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Feb 11, 2015 22:36
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Star Man posted:I knew someone that tried to convince me that fascism and communism were one-and-the-same because everything goes to the state. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is totally a perfect, wonderful democracy run by the people for the people, right? Obviously fascists were socialist and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics all elected their leaders and were most certainly not brutally dictatorial at all like ever.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:47
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ProperGanderPusher posted:It's funny watching conservative Southerners tie themselves in knots trying to deny that their family voted Democrat until about 1980. An acquaintance of mine from rural Alabama brought up some macro recently which talked about how "the KKK was made up of DemocRATS The number of pre-Southern-Strategy southern Republicans is like the attendance at Woodstock: It increases every year.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:55
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" and it took all my strength to keep from calling him out and asking him what party his grandfather belonged to back in the day (he's one of those people who completely flips out when you disagree with him politically).
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Mister Macys posted:We use the word "slow" I didn't realize halon was classified as a fire slowant.  I'm not defending the use of the term as a pejorative, I'm just causing trouble on the Internet.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:56
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Dr Christmas posted:Last night, in a Daily Show segment about Fox Pundits wishing that Obama was more like the king of Jordan, there were two talking heads lamenting Obama's inaction on ISIS, right next to an infographic about Amera carrying out 80% of he actions against them. I wonder if she'll get 6 months suspension for getting caught in such a blatant lie? My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:06
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Star Man posted:I knew someone that tried to convince me that fascism and communism were one-and-the-same because everything goes to the state.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:24
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Dr Christmas posted:Last night, in a Daily Show segment about Fox Pundits wishing that Obama was more like the king of Jordan, there were two talking heads lamenting Obama's inaction on ISIS, right next to an infographic about Amera carrying out 80% of he actions against them. I wonder if she'll get 6 months suspension for getting caught in such a blatant lie? Notice she didn't say America wasn't doing anything, just Obama. Has Obama done anything himself? How many shots has he fired? I remember there was a guy, big time right wing Republican, can't really remember his name but I remember he put on a flight suit himself and then, I think, killed Osama and Saddam?
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Feb 11, 2015 23:31
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Cognac McCarthy posted:doesn't actually know what modernism is, so It's some kind of art thing, right?
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Feb 11, 2015 23:47
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Dr Christmas posted:Last night, in a Daily Show segment about Fox Pundits wishing that Obama was more like the king of Jordan, there were two talking heads lamenting Obama's inaction on ISIS, right next to an infographic about Amera carrying out 80% of he actions against them. I wonder if she'll get 6 months suspension for getting caught in such a blatant lie? You're being silly. He was making a joke about the way Obama is treated versus other world leaders. The right doesn't think we're doing literally nothing, and they're not "lying" trying to tell people that we aren't bombing ISIS when we actually are. If you actually watch right-wing media or Fox News, the primary argument is that bombing is insufficient, that it's essentially a low-commitment exercise to give the appearance of doing something, to avoiding having to making any tough decisions about putting troops on the ground. Incidentally, this is a completely valid criticism. Obama's ISIS strategy has been a complete mess of mixed messages and weird half-hearted commitments from the beginning. The hawkish wing of the American right is angry with Obama because they are convinced that ISIS cannot be defeated without deploying American troops in a combat role. They are criticizing his relative inaction, they are not pretending he literally isn't engaged in a bombing campaign. The pundit was being genuine in representing the right-wing opinion that the current bombing campaign isn't serious, and doesn't have a coherent strategy behind it. And amongst many silly right-wing claims, that's actually one of the more legitimate criticisms. Periodiko fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 23:53
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Mister Macys posted:We use the word "slow" The "slows" got on the short bus for the trip to the zoo. Am I doing this right?
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Feb 12, 2015 00:01
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PerniciousKnid posted:It's some kind of art thing, right? Art and philosophy, rejecting the realism and liberalism of the 19th century. In politics, you see it manifested everywhere in the early 20th century, particularly following the disillusionment of WWI: Anytime you read a fascist or Bolshevik thinker from the time talking about creating a "new man" or anything like that, it's influenced by modernism. Obviously there's a lot more to it, but the extent of communism and fascism's shared heritage is really just rejecting liberalism and believing that collective and state action can radically transform the world, right down to each individual. It's why Nazis and communists and hypernationalists had (and have) such a weird hard-on for physically training young people. e: I realize you were maybe being facetious in asking what it is. Whatever, if it comes up people will know what it is now.
Cognac McCarthy fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 00:03
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quote:a complete mess of mixed messages and weird half-hearted commitments from the beginning Rightly or wrongly, that sounds like a perfect representation of what the public feels about ISIS and more war in the middle East. Flashy videos of hostage executions aren't another 9/11 no matter how badly Fox wants to pretend they are. Bush taught us you're allowed to go to war half-heartedly without a real plan and now his cheerleaders are mad that Obama is pulling a page from his playbook. I'm not happy about it, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm clamoring for BOOTS ON THE GROUND or shock and awe. I'm also a lot more comfortable giving Obama the benefit of the doubt than a bunch of people who still can't admit what a gently caress up the Iraq war was and continues to be. Aside from all that I also disagree with the idea that Fox is engaged in some nuanced debate relative to what Obama is actually doing, their verbage on their opinion shows does not suggest that at all. So far they seem determined to infer he's doing as close to zero as they can get away with. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 00:11
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Cognac McCarthy posted:I mean, both Nazism and Bolshevism were modernist ideologies so they share a lot of rhetoric (in a weird way) and aesthetic, so there are some connections in that sense. But anyone actually arguing fascism and communism are in any way the same beyond being modernist (everyone was a modernist in between WWI and WWII!) doesn't actually know what modernism is, so Bolshevism I'll give you, but post-"night of the long knives" Nazism and Stalinism were both pretty damned conservative. Italian fascism, now that was modern as hell. Take one look at the art and architecture and they fall into "modern" and "romantic" really loving quickly. They all committed atrocities, all had a callous disregard for human life and all of them glorified violence. But let's put them in their proper boxes.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:17
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I expected conservatives to blame liberalism and atheism for the anti-muslim shooting but they have found an even better target: gays
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Feb 12, 2015 00:25
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BiggerBoat posted:John Stewart is leaving the Daily Show.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:37
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You guys missed the point, fascism/authoritarianism and communism operationally function the same way.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:40
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site posted:You guys missed the point, fascism/authoritarianism and communism operationally function the same way. Statism! Anarchy! Smash the State!
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Feb 12, 2015 00:52
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Actual communism by definition requires the dissolution of the state, with central authority being a temporary stepping stone which should be discarded as soon as humanly possible to prevent Stalins and Maos from taking over. You may(as many anarchists and democratic socialists like to and actually predicted pre-USSR) argue that that particular failure state is inevitable, but that doesn't make that failure state actual communism, it just would mean actually implementing an operational form of communism is impossible.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:16
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Star Man posted:I knew someone that tried to convince me that fascism and communism were one-and-the-same because everything goes to the state. Most conservatives think that fascism is a left wing ideology.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:26
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Star Man posted:I knew someone that tried to convince me that fascism and communism were one-and-the-same because everything goes to the state. I used to work with a guy like that. I asked him to explain and he said "are you serious? basically every possible way" and then said he didn't want to argue. One time a co-worker said everybody lies and he was extremely adamant that he never did. I asked him if he told his kids Santa was real and he pouted for the rest of the day and didn't talk to me for a week. He also thought Superman is cool. Basically all of the worst opinions manifested into the form of a man.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:28
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Xibanya posted:I didn't realize halon was classified as a fire slowant.  I'm Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 01:29
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Periodiko posted:You're being silly. He was making a joke about the way Obama is treated versus other world leaders. The right doesn't think we're doing literally nothing, and they're not "lying" trying to tell people that we aren't bombing ISIS when we actually are. If you actually watch right-wing media or Fox News, the primary argument is that bombing is insufficient, that it's essentially a low-commitment exercise to give the appearance of doing something, to avoiding having to making any tough decisions about putting troops on the ground. I'm going to have to address this complete load of nonsensical and illogical horse poo poo in the morning. Someone save my place in line while I go eat dinner, put my kid to bed and grab a quick shower.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:31
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm going to have to address this complete load of nonsensical and illogical horse poo poo in the morning. Someone save my place in line while I go eat dinner, put my kid to bed and grab a quick shower.   The Kurds around Kobani have trapped ISIL fighters in 4 separate pincer maneuvers.    It's kinda amazing just how fast ISIL has collapsed around Kobani. I mean, pretty much everyone knew ISIL were going to fall back when the Kurds finally routed them in the city, but basically no one expected this level of disorganized retreat. Note Tal Abyad in the east, and how it doesn't seem very far away from the Kurdish advances. Tal Abyad is the main link between the Turkish border and the Syrian ISIL stronghold of Raqqa; ISIL is hosed if the Kurds take Tal Abyad, and guess what the next target for the Syrian Kurds is (with lots and lots of US airstrikes for backup)?
fade5 fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 02:17
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Give the Kurds their own country.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:22
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MaxxBot posted:I expected conservatives to blame liberalism and atheism for the anti-muslim shooting but they have found an even better target: gays Yeah, from what I've seen the right wing hate machine has been going way, way out of their way to paint this guy as a liberal extremist of some sort.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:12
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The Rokstar posted:Yeah, from what I've seen the right wing hate machine has been going way, way out of their way to paint this guy as a liberal extremist of some sort. I'm suprised they are not cheering the guy on for tackling the Muslim menace.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:14
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