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Taco Box posted:I'm confused. Why is there a tax hit if you don't have health care? I should think if you can't afford health care, you can't really swing tax bills either. Who thought that was a good idea? Or am I missing something? He can afford it, but doesn't feel like paying it. He wants to cheap out and get a bare bones plan but post-ACA those don't really exist anymore since they were generally terrible beyond belief and insurance plans have to meet certain minimum standards now. 5 years ago I was shopping for insurance on my own and wound up with something fairly similar to the plan he's bitching about now (i.e. the minimum acceptable under ACA.) I had the option to buy a crappier plan with half the monthly premium, but the coverage was so phenomenally lovely that it would only ever be worth it if I never, ever have to go to the hospital, which is a pretty lovely bet to make and probably pretty terrible with money. EDIT: Post-ACA I'm paying more for a higher deductible plan than what I had before, but that's because my insurance premiums are no longer being subsidized by suckers like the OP being quoted. (Also, he complains about getting no benefits until $6000 of out-of-pocket costs but that's only true because he's a giant baby who won't go to the doctor; ACA compliant plans have to provide first dollar coverage for basic preventative care including a couple doctor visits a year.) the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 22:40
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I've never felt better about having a hdhp through my company ($40 premium, $1500 deductible). We get $500/yr dumped into our HSA by the company too which owns.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:51
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It's possible that guy doesn't know how deductibles work when you have insurance. I had a high deductible health plan when I was interning for a company (which I now work for full time), and had a hospital stay. Two days and a night. No surgeries, but had some attention from a specialist (food safety is very important, folks) The hospital sent a bill to insurance for $25,000. Insurance says LOLNO, the patient is going to pay our negotiated rate, which was something like $2,000. My deductible was $1,000, with 90/10 coinsurance afterwards and an out of pocket maximum of $2000. So I paid the hospital $1,000 (my deductible), then paid $100 (10% of the remaining balance) to satisfy it. So, catastropic "broke your leg and needs $25,000 in surgery" might only cost the dude $3k-$4k out of pocket. HDHPs with HSAs are awesome, and are pretty much the perfect insurance solution for people who are young and healthy-ish with no chronic conditions.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:10
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If you don't have insurance you could get away with negotiating rates with hospitals/doctors if you're paying 100% out of pocket. This obviously won't work if you're sent to the ER from a car wreck and you wake up in a hospital bed, then you get a nice $100k+ bill a few weeks later and you're financially ruined. The guy is a moron.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:24
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I actually find it very uncomfortable that a framework like insurance (used for risk mitigation) as a payment method for regular/foreseeable costs. I think wanting catastrophic insurance for proper emergencies while budgeting for the rest is very responsible, even of it doesn't fit well with our current regulatory framework. While it's probably not a great idea in the end, the guy seems to be trying to estimate risk and calculate the costs from those guesses. Could be worse with money 
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Feb 11, 2015 23:35
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Yeah except he actually considered not getting insurance and taking the tax hit as an option.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:54
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Delta-Wye posted:I actually find it very uncomfortable that a framework like insurance (used for risk mitigation) as a payment method for regular/foreseeable costs. I think wanting catastrophic insurance for proper emergencies while budgeting for the rest is very responsible, even of it doesn't fit well with our current regulatory framework.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:16
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If you can't afford a 6k deductible , declaring bk for that isn't much different from declaring bk for 60k. Worst case you have a hospital stay overnight nye and owe 12k. Also a free doctor visit under the Aca converts to one you pay for if they find a single thing wrong, which will happen.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:24
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Comrade Flynn posted:Haha, no. It's actually a Lamborghini. I wouldn't buy something like this as an investment unless it were < 5% of my net worth and I understood that it was a toy and not really a serious investment.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:27
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I'd like to know what percentage of homebuyers in their 20s, in 2015, have their parents helping with their house down payment. I'm maxing out my Roth IRA and nearly maxing out my Roth 401(k) contribution, and I've got a $10k emergency fund with a total of $3k debt. Even saving another $1,000 post-tax/mo after that means I'm many years away from being able to put $100k down on a home. And my income is in the top 5% of people my age. I know I can save more, and I should, but I'm saving nearly 40% of my takehome pay and I feel like I'm still going nowhere. I'm pretty loving sure most people my age buying homes aren't doing it because they're better savers, based on savings-rate-by-age data. Radbot fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 00:32
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The # of people looking to buy $1M (10%) and $500k (20%) homes is probably a lot smaller. But yes, as a late 20s couple with 2 incomes and no parental help and an inflated real estate market we can never make the math work for home ownership. It would take years to save up the $50-60k cash minimum we'd need to put down (20% on 300k). 3 years of saving IDK probably 30% of take home pay? Sounds miserable.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:35
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I injured my shoulder during a 1- or 2-month gap in my health insurance and had to get surgery. The surgery and subsequent physical therapy came out to about $9k after negotiating every step of the way. I did some napkin math at the time, and factoring in copays, a $6000 deductible, monthly payments, and the stupidly low limit on PT appointments that the Aetna plan covered yearly, the cost worked out roughly the same. I can completely understand and somewhat agree with a young, healthy person's choice not to pay through the nose for lovely insurance. It's just about
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Feb 12, 2015 00:42
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xie posted:The # of people looking to buy $1M (10%) and $500k (20%) homes is probably a lot smaller. But yes, as a late 20s couple with 2 incomes and no parental help and an inflated real estate market we can never make the math work for home ownership. It would take years to save up the $50-60k cash minimum we'd need to put down (20% on 300k). 3 years of saving IDK probably 30% of take home pay? Sounds miserable. If you are looking to buy in the $300k range on dual income putting down 10% isn't that bad. More deposit is better but if you are only borrowing $270k I see that as less of an issue. It also means that when interest rates eventually increase you will at least have a chance to service the mortgage. If you were looking at a $400k to $900k mortgage you'd want to think about that more carefully. e: getting the first home is painful. I got my first home last year but I'd spent years saving the 20% deposit and having money in reserve.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:55
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Unless we move out to the suburbs I'm not sure $300k will get us anything other than a condo. I'd have to actually run the numbers for 10% vs. 20%, but we're not married and are both fairly lazy/unhandy so we're smartly just renting now, even though we pay a fortune in rent. For me to hit all of my maximums I'd have to save over 40% of my take home, and I make a solid living. My girlfriend would need to save basically all of it. So I don't see how we could ever save for a home. To answer the question it's either financial help from parents, really stupid mortgages, or likely not saving a lot for retirement - only employer match.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:08
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xie posted:Unless we move out to the suburbs I'm not sure $300k will get us anything other than a condo. I'd have to actually run the numbers for 10% vs. 20%, but we're not married and are both fairly lazy/unhandy so we're smartly just renting now, even though we pay a fortune in rent. For me to hit all of my maximums I'd have to save over 40% of my take home, and I make a solid living. My girlfriend would need to save basically all of it. So I don't see how we could ever save for a home. Even the recommended book in the retirement savings thread recommends just focusing on saving for a deposit if you are buying a house. Mathematically it is bad to defer, draw down or borrow retirement savings but you lose the compounding growth however it is a way to purchase a house. However if you can't get a house in the $300k to $400k you may be in the region where you are better off renting anyway. Investing will most likely leave you better off.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:17
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xie posted:Unless we move out to the suburbs I'm not sure $300k will get us anything other than a condo. Having a choice between a $300,000 condo in the city, or a house in the suburbs, seems pretty typical. What other options could there really be at that price?
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Feb 12, 2015 01:23
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What about having a much smaller, more space efficient (and therefore cost efficient) home built custom? It might have been linked in this thread before, but I like ted talk (I know, I know) on tiny homes.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:35
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jon joe posted:What about having a much smaller, more space efficient (and therefore cost efficient) home built custom? It might have been linked in this thread before, but I like ted talk (I know, I know) on tiny homes. The problem is the lot value in most cities is the primary cost driver.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:02
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xie posted:To answer the question it's either financial help from parents, really stupid mortgages, or likely not saving a lot for retirement - only employer match. I got $10k from my parents. Gift, not a loan. If it makes you feel any better I'm now about $30k upside down on it after owning it for almost seven years (and yes, I've been paying down the mortgage the whole time, the house is worth about $50k less than what I bought it for.)
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Feb 12, 2015 03:20
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The cheapest I can get at a 45 minute commute is 700k. I live with my parents and sock away 20k a year and it will still take me 7 years to save the 20%. 
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Feb 12, 2015 03:41
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Boot and Rally posted:The cheapest I can get at a 45 minute commute is 700k. I live with my parents and sock away 20k a year and it will still take me 7 years to save the 20%. But that's OK, because even with 20% down you can't come even vaguely close to affording the mortgage on that place anyway if you can only manage $20k a year living with your parents.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:06
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Boot and Rally posted:The cheapest I can get at a 45 minute commute is 700k. I live with my parents and sock away 20k a year and it will still take me 7 years to save the 20%. Where is this?
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Feb 12, 2015 05:15
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Blackjack2000 posted:Where is this? Gotta be the Bay Area. Moving out of there was the smartest financial decision I ever made.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:23
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baquerd posted:But that's OK, because even with 20% down you can't come even vaguely close to affording the mortgage on that place anyway if you can only manage $20k a year living with your parents. Exactly what I was thinking. Depending on the area that's probably a jumbo loan as well. Godspeed.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:35
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Comrade Flynn posted:Gotta be the Bay Area. Moving out of there was the smartest financial decision I ever made. From what I've heard, I don't understand how anyone can afford to live there, even renting.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:36
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Blackjack2000 posted:From what I've heard, I don't understand how anyone can afford to live there, even renting. An industry and appropriate salaries based entirely on exuberance. I'd kill for that climate, though.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:39
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We survive by living with parents who bought before the nineties, living with roommates, or shacking up in studio apartments with sexy strangers we just met.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:40
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Aliquid posted:An industry and appropriate salaries based entirely on exuberance. I'd kill for that climate, though. I went there in August, had to buy a jacket. No thanks, San Francisco.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:38
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baquerd posted:But that's OK, because even with 20% down you can't come even vaguely close to affording the mortgage on that place anyway if you can only manage $20k a year living with your parents. You sound bitter. E: Yes? What? Boot and Rally fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 06:46
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Boot and Rally posted:You sound bitter. are you loving serious
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Feb 12, 2015 06:51
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Blackjack2000 posted:I got $10k from my parents. Gift, not a loan. Good, and so did I... plus taking it as a loan from your parents and not disclosing that fact on the mortgage application is a federal crime. My dad specifically gave them a letter declaring it as a gift that was not too be paid back by me to them. Technically, I had all the cash needed for 20%, but that would've let me with almost no emergency/repair fund. Thanks for the help, mom and dad!
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Feb 12, 2015 06:57
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Boot and Rally posted:You sound bitter. Even if you were able to get a mortgage at the prime rate of 3.25% (which, good luck getting anything under 3.90% or so right now), your monthly payment on a $560K mortgage would be roughly $2,400. Which is about $29,000 annually. Which is nearly 50% more than you're able to save right now living at home (and presumably avoiding HOA and maintenance fees). In other words, Aliquid posted:are you loving serious
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Feb 12, 2015 07:00
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Every time I think about wanting to buy a house, I remember this thread and reaffirm my decision to rent a house instead after my current lease is up.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:03
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pig slut lisa posted:Even if you were able to get a mortgage at the prime rate of 3.25% (which, good luck getting anything under 3.90% or so right now), your monthly payment on a $560K mortgage would be roughly $2,400. Which is about $29,000 annually. Which is nearly 50% more than you're able to save right now living at home (and presumably avoiding HOA and maintenance fees). You guys are making an awful lot of assumptions about my financial situation.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:05
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Boot and Rally posted:You guys are making an awful lot of assumptions about my financial situation. Only what you're telling us already: Boot and Rally posted:I live with my parents and sock away 20k a year and it will still take me 7 years to save the 20%.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:08
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Boot and Rally posted:You guys are making an awful lot of assumptions about my financial situation. By all means, fill in the gaps for me 
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Feb 12, 2015 07:08
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HonorableTB posted:Every time I think about wanting to buy a house, I remember this thread and reaffirm my decision to rent a house instead after my current lease is up. Or take a look at someone like me who bought 2 years ago and have probably had $150k in appreciation since.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:16
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Blackjack2000 posted:From what I've heard, I don't understand how anyone can afford to live there, even renting. edit: but if you don't yeah get out
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Feb 12, 2015 07:17
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Forgot I was posting in the derails megathread so everyone is just looking for an excuse. E: VVVV I'm not comfortable revealing anymore personal information. I appreciate you've done some math and I can guess at your assumptions but they are just that. Boot and Rally fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 07:19
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^^ We did the math, sweet summer child, and asked for more infoComrade Flynn posted:Or take a look at someone like me who bought 2 years ago and have probably had $150k in appreciation since. In your case I think direct dollar amounts may be irrelevant. I don't have the money (nor will I in this decade), but my dream house is currently listed at $119,000 and I believe you have literally more Lamborghini Equity than that.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:19
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