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webmeister posted:Does book Jaime even know they're his kids? Obviously he'd have to suspect it, but offhand I can't recall him ever acknowledging it or the rumours. Show-Jaime seems to be aware of it though, given his reaction to Joffrey's death. In ADWD I think he refers to them as a squirt of his seed in Cersei's oval office which is the worst thing I've ever been forced to retype.
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Feb 11, 2015 16:26
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webmeister posted:Does book Jaime even know they're his kids? Obviously he'd have to suspect it, but offhand I can't recall him ever acknowledging it or the rumours. Show-Jaime seems to be aware of it though, given his reaction to Joffrey's death. I don't have any passages to quote or reference here but I'm pretty sure he mentally refers to Tommen as his son at least once in AFFC
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Feb 11, 2015 16:31
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webmeister posted:Does book Jaime even know they're his kids? Obviously he'd have to suspect it, but offhand I can't recall him ever acknowledging it or the rumours. Show-Jaime seems to be aware of it though, given his reaction to Joffrey's death. I thought he says they're all probably his to Catelyn while a prisoner in ACoK.
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Feb 11, 2015 16:47
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Andrew Verse posted:Regarding Robert Strong and also Lady Stoneheart, from Bran's coma dreams in GoT: Thank you so much for this post. I've only read the last two books once each, and I've missed things like this.
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Feb 11, 2015 17:29
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I thought the golden armored man dazzling like the sun was supposed to be Oberyn
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Feb 11, 2015 18:12
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The sun is half of the Martell sigil yeah, but Oberyn is not really associated with beauty or gold or gleaming armor. Jamie, on the other hand... Tee hee "hand"
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Feb 11, 2015 18:33
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Calaveron posted:I thought the golden armored man dazzling like the sun was supposed to be Oberyn Maybe I'm being too literal but Oberyn wore plain leather armor against Gregor, right? He had his metal shield but other than that I think Jaime fits the description much better. He's been described as wearing golden armor about a million times throughout the series.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:33
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I go back and forth between thinking the stone man in Bran's vision is Robert Strong or Littlefinger. On one hand: a giant armoured man with an empty head full of black blood seems to be a literal description to The Mountain after being poisoned by manticore venom and resurrected without a head. On the other hand: the armor is described as stone, which matches The Mountain but does not quite fit Robert Strong. Littlefinger's family sigil is the head of the Titan of Braavos, but his personal is Mockingbird. From an abstract perspective, he is a Titan without a head. Also, consider The Ghost of High Heart's vision that Sansa will slay a giant on a mountain, which probably refers to Littlefinger. She's not referring to Robin's doll that Sansa tore apart, because the Ghost of High Heart exclusively predicts things like the deaths of kings or the birth of the Prince that was Promised. Plus, if you think of Brienne (I agree with Andrew Verse, she will inherit the Hound's helm) and Jaime's overall goal of rescuing Sansa, then that currently suggests that their opponent will be Littlefinger, not Robert Strong. I guess I lean more toward Littlefinger, but I admit that Robert Strong fits the prophecy very well.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:52
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Though seeing Brienne beat the Mountain might be cool because it helps Lady Stoneheart destroy the Lannisters, I think seeing Sandor beat the Mountain would have better weight to it.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:06
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Andrew Verse posted:Regarding Robert Strong and also Lady Stoneheart, from Bran's coma dreams in GoT: Interesting take, if this is where GRRM want to take the plot then both Cersei and Zombie Mountain probably will make it to the last book. Cersei is such a good villain I hope she doesn't die early. and the Sandor Clegane arc in the book is over if he won't face off dead mountain. loquacius posted:Hadn't thought of this before but now it's the theory I'm rolling with since GRRM has a proven track-record of poisoned wish fulfillment like this (see: Theon becoming Reek; Joffrey and Shae's deaths actually being really tough to read; Gregor dying but taking Oberyn with him). I think the only comeuppances in the book that have been allowed to be really viscerally satisfying are Viserys' crown and Tywin's potty break. I thoroughly enjoyed Joffrey's death. Great character, great exit. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 19:53
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loquacius posted:Hadn't thought of this before but now it's the theory I'm rolling with since GRRM has a proven track-record of poisoned wish fulfillment like this (see: Theon becoming Reek; Joffrey and Shae's deaths actually being really tough to read; Gregor dying but taking Oberyn with him). I think the only comeuppances in the book that have been allowed to be really viscerally satisfying are Viserys' crown and Tywin's potty break. Despite everything Viserys did, I felt sorry for him when he died. Dude spent his whole childhood running city to city getting mocked while trying to care for himself and sister while at the same time trying to convince someone to take his kingdom back for him. Poor guy generally couldn't handle being humiliated and mocked and Drogo basically turned him into a clown to be mocked by his whole army. When Drogo tells him he'll give him his crown you can tell in the books and show he looks happy for once only to be brutally killed while likely pissing himself. Viserys was one lovely dude but it's obvious why he's lovely and it's hard not to feel sorry for him when hes begging Dany to save his life.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:57
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BillBear posted:Despite everything Viserys did, I felt sorry for him when he died. Dude spent his whole childhood running city to city getting mocked while trying to care for himself and sister while at the same time trying to convince someone to take his kingdom back for him. Poor guy generally couldn't handle being humiliated and mocked and Drogo basically turned him into a clown to be mocked by his whole army. When Drogo tells him he'll give him his crown you can tell in the books and show he looks happy for once only to be brutally killed while likely pissing himself. Viserys was one lovely dude but it's obvious why he's lovely and it's hard not to feel sorry for him when hes begging Dany to save his life. I actually agree, he's a constantly-humiliated, mentally ill idiot. Had he actually succeeded in doing what he wanted he'd probably have been one of Westeros' greatest monsters, but as he was he was mostly pitiable.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:19
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From what little we know about Viserys I think he would have been a much better ruler than Joffrey. Sure, Viserys was a spoiled brat most of the time but he wasn't nearly as cruel as Joffrey. And when he was cruel it was at least for a reason, albeit a self-centered one whereas Joffrey delighted in it. Although it's not really that hard to make a case for anybody as king when comparing to Joffrey.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:28
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I don't know, there's a passage in GoT where Viserys and Jorah are talking about slavery and Viserys basically says he'd bring back slavery to Westeros because it's natural. I mean maybe he isn't quite as sadistic as Joffrey but in some respects I think King Viserys would have been worse. At least Joffrey had Tywin and Tyrion blunting his worst excesses.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:40
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BillBear posted:Despite everything Viserys did, I felt sorry for him when he died. Dude spent his whole childhood running city to city getting mocked while trying to care for himself and sister while at the same time trying to convince someone to take his kingdom back for him. Poor guy generally couldn't handle being humiliated and mocked and Drogo basically turned him into a clown to be mocked by his whole army. When Drogo tells him he'll give him his crown you can tell in the books and show he looks happy for once only to be brutally killed while likely pissing himself. Viserys was one lovely dude but it's obvious why he's lovely and it's hard not to feel sorry for him when hes begging Dany to save his life. By the same token I couldn't take much satisfaction in Tywin's death, since he was one of the few genuinely intelligent, effective leaders on the continent. He's a character that's spent his life doing awful things but is incredibly hard to outright hate. Whereas people like Joffrey and Viserys are just spoilt children who were raised terribly, and were put in an unfortunate position of power (or perceived power in Viserys' case), but they're incredibly easy to despise.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:53
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Calaveron posted:In ADWD I think he refers to them as a squirt of his seed in Cersei's oval office which is the worst thing I've ever been forced to retype. The American Tolkien! The American Tolkien!
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Feb 11, 2015 22:16
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lifts cats over head posted:From what little we know about Viserys I think he would have been a much better ruler than Joffrey. Sure, Viserys was a spoiled brat most of the time but he wasn't nearly as cruel as Joffrey. And when he was cruel it was at least for a reason, albeit a self-centered one whereas Joffrey delighted in it. Although it's not really that hard to make a case for anybody as king when comparing to Joffrey. I say Viserys could have been Westeros' greatest monsters because the Targaryens go Bond Villain with their schemes sometimes. All the literal fires they've started or almost started trying to hatch dragons or turn themselves into dragons, plus the way they have often spit in the face of even the most basic social laws in Westeros, makes me think a Viserys with real power and an axe to grind over the humiliation he suffered would be a real nightmare.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:52
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As soon as Arya started training-but-not-really to be a Faceless Man, and there is also a fake Arya Stark running around, I completely assumed that her graduation/first mission would be 'Kill Arya Stark' and that's how she'd get back to Westeros. Given Mercy I don't think she'll be getting missions from the Faceless Men, but between Jon/Stannis' deals with the Iron Bank of Braavos and Stannis' mercenary fleet I expect her to end up in the north for the ghostwritten endgame in 2019. Hopefully she won't fall in love with Jon though.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:45
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Vitamin P posted:Hopefully she won't fall in love with Jon though. Speak for yourself 
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Feb 11, 2015 23:47
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If the bringing together of Ice and Fire is Jon and Arya I will laugh and then throw the book over my shoulder and forever think of ASOIAF as going the way of LOST or The Dark Tower
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Feb 12, 2015 00:43
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D&D will say "gently caress that", but GRRM will go ahead and write it into Book 7.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:46
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Beeez posted:I say Viserys could have been Westeros' greatest monsters because the Targaryens go Bond Villain with their schemes sometimes. All the literal fires they've started or almost started trying to hatch dragons or turn themselves into dragons, plus the way they have often spit in the face of even the most basic social laws in Westeros, makes me think a Viserys with real power and an axe to grind over the humiliation he suffered would be a real nightmare. That's a good point. Viserys would definitely have a chip on his shoulder which wouldn't bode well for pretty much any house with Baratheon allegiance.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:04
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Lycus posted:D&D will say "gently caress that", but GRRM will go ahead and write it into Book 7. Sometimes I wonder what it'd look like if GRRM got D&D to go along with some of his worst excesses, or if he took the series into unavoidably strange directions in the last two books and the show-runners had to squirm about deliberately changing course - a Jon-and-Arya relationship would definitely qualify. Just knowing that's what GRRM was thinking when he first laid out a Game of Thrones sort of taints their close sibling relationship scenes at the start of the series.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:16
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Dear god i can't wait until people forget about that stupid document or whatevr it is
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Feb 12, 2015 03:01
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whalestory posted:Dear god i can't wait until people forget about that stupid document or whatevr it is People never forget anything, they just use it as fuel for more stupid theories that just degenerate into madlibs of bullshit in which it's eventually posited that every possible combination of characters and various actions will occur.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:17
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Do you guys think GRRM is hiding a secret behind Lyanna Stark, besides the usual R+L stuff? At this point, I think there are very few surprise cards GRRM have left up his sleeves. The other thing I haven't figured out is how will the series resolve the final "The Others" invasion. Do you guys have any theory about it. Is it going to link up all the mythical stuff the series causally mentioned over the decades? Bran the Builder? Red God? Children of the Forrest? All come out in the final brawl?
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Feb 12, 2015 03:24
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The only other interesting thing about Lyanna Stark is that she's the Knight of the Laughing Tree, which is kind of related to R+L=J because that incident is what put her into Rhaegar's field of view.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:30
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Her being the knight of the laughing tree also cements her relationship with Howland Reed, and I've always liked the theory that Jon and Meera are secret twins, if only because it adds more incest to the story (Bran wants to go Kevin Gates and gently caress his cousin).
ruddiger fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 03:37
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Who bought GRRM an account?
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Feb 12, 2015 03:38
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This document deciphering is one step away from the loving Bible Code and somehow more pathetic.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:24
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ruddiger posted:Jon and Meera are secret twins How in the hell is that a possibility other than age?
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Feb 12, 2015 06:05
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Presumably Ned's sister gave birth to them and to protect them Ned took one and Howland took the other, since they were together at the Tower of Joy when she died.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:14
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And I guess it's attractive to some people because it's a three-Targaryen theory that allows Aegon to be fake (or non-existent) and Tyrion to not be a secret Targ.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:19
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the final twist will be that this was star wars all along
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Feb 12, 2015 06:19
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The evidence for Meera as a Jon's twin is: - Lyanna died giving birth so she might have had twins. - Alfie Allen described Jon's parentage as a"Star Wars situation". People take it literally. - Meera doesn't look as much like crannogman as Jojen. - Jon and Meera are the same age. - Kit Harrington (Jon) and Ellie Kendrick (Meera) look similar in the show. It's not great. People love making Lyanna give birth to two or three kids. I've seen Darkstar suggested as a third child.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:30
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e: beaten.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:31
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In It For The Tank posted:The evidence for Meera as a Jon's twin is: This actually makes a lot of sense. Darkstar is of the night. The night is dark. Shadows are also dark. Shadows are spawned from light, like from a fire. Rhaegar is a Targaryen. Targaryens are connected to fire. DARKSTAR IS A SHADOW BABY!
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Feb 12, 2015 06:42
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Anti-Hero posted:I wonder how they wiil bump off show Jaime, in that case? I think he's going to take the place of Arys Oakheart and get killed by Areo Hotah.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:44
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In It For The Tank posted:- Alfie Allen described Jon's parentage as a"Star Wars situation". People take it literally. If this theory is right why would Alfie Allen be privileged to that info?
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Feb 12, 2015 06:52
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zVxTeflon posted:If this theory is right why would Alfie Allen be privileged to that info? http://www.vulture.com/2012/06/game-of-thrones-theon-alfie-allen-interview.html?imw=Y
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Feb 12, 2015 06:55
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