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Mr. Wiggles posted:
Its smaller though, about the size of a Mazda 5
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Feb 11, 2015 23:17
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mobby_6kl posted:So I went on the internet and found this: holy poo poo
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Feb 11, 2015 23:31
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HotCanadianChick posted:They definitely produced more than a handful; in the 80's alone you had the AE86 Corollas, the FX16 Corolla hatches, the MR2, the Celica, and the Supra. That's 5 sporty models that were all in simultaneous production, fully half their North American lineup (the other cars they made at the time were the Cressida, the regular FWD Corolla, the Camry, the LiteAce Van, and the Hilux Pickup). Man, if you're gonna count shitboxes with okay power as enthusiast offerings, you might as well count the Tc as a contemporary enthusiast offering. The "fully half their lineup" bit is a real stretch. You're basically counting different trims as different models to puff up your numbers. And both of us are guilty of disregarding their offerings for offroad enthusiasts. They offer less enthusiast options than at some times in the past, but not "overwhelmingly" so. Toyota has always been an appliance company first and foremost. And again, this is all tangential to your original flawed argument.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:39
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PeterWeller posted:Toyota has always been an appliance company first and foremost. Why doesn't this ever seem to apply to their trucks? Their trucks are awesome both in terms of reliability and capability, the styling tends to be good, it's like they're made by a whole different company.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:42
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Yeah, and counting the alltrac is a stretch too--homolgation cars aren't sold for enthusiasts, they were a sunk cost to justify racing in certain classes of racing.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:43
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mobby_6kl posted:So I went on the internet and found this:
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Feb 11, 2015 23:47
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BraveUlysses posted:Yeah, and counting the alltrac is a stretch too--homolgation cars aren't sold for enthusiasts, they were a sunk cost to justify racing in certain classes of racing. The AllTrac wasn't sold simply as a homologation model though, although there were certainly versions of it sold that were for homologation purposes, that came with all the fancy anti-lag and aero that the race cars used.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:55
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mobby_6kl posted:So I went on the internet and found this: That thing is hideous. They'll sell millions. KakerMix posted:BMW is dead sorry. Hey man, just wait until they have the AWD M cars. You'll eat your words then! e: This throws their whole number scheme out the window too. Or at least any pretense of it they were trying to have.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:28
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mobby_6kl posted:
skipdogg posted:It's a minivan without the sliding doors. Benz sells a shitload of those too, it's the GL-klasse or some other ugly bullshit.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:42
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Elephanthead posted:Well this is not new but I just found out the STS-V exists. It is like a CTS-V but not for tiny people. Seems like a legit kid mover and should be my next car. Well, they exist, but not as new cars. They stopped production in 2009. I had one, and it was nifty. I have a CTS-V now, and the STS was certainly bigger, and had more nifty features (heated steering wheel, rain sensing wipers) than the CTS.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:55
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PT6A posted:Why doesn't this ever seem to apply to their trucks? Their trucks are awesome both in terms of reliability and capability, the styling tends to be good, it's like they're made by a whole different company.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:03
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Cocoa Crispies posted:Benz sells a shitload of those too, it's the GL-klasse or some other ugly bullshit. The mighty B-Class shall rule the Erf. 
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Feb 12, 2015 01:16
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The b-class is a 5 seat compact hatchback, that BMW town and country is a 7 seat minivan. It's not even a stretched SUV like the GL class. Close comparison would be the Viano or whatever MB's minivan is called.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:02
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Mercedes has never had pretensions about being all about sporting, though. Just all about nice seats.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:04
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jhcain posted:Well, they exist, but not as new cars. They stopped production in 2009. I had one, and it was nifty. I have a CTS-V now, and the STS was certainly bigger, and had more nifty features (heated steering wheel, rain sensing wipers) than the CTS. Yeah the new CTS has been up sized to roughly STS / 5-series size now so for new cars the CTS-v is probably what you're looking for
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Feb 12, 2015 02:06
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PT6A posted:Why doesn't this ever seem to apply to their trucks? Their trucks are awesome both in terms of reliability and capability, the styling tends to be good, it's like they're made by a whole different company. I'd argue they are. I have a Tacoma, and my brother has a Tundra Plat. Both are very capable trucks. Neither is a particularly excellent place to be. Toyota is cheap, and uses cheap materials. The Tundra Platinum, especially for what they charge is embarrassingly lovely compared to the interior of even the last gen F-150. The update to the Tacoma I'm not sure is going to fix that based on the pictures I've seen. The Prius is awful, especially if you compare it to the C-Max. I hate the exterior of the C-Max, but it's by far a nicer, and better drive than Prius. I love my Tacoma, and the only truck I'd replace it with would be the new Raptor once they've been making them for a couple years. It is however still very much "Toyota driving appliance".
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Feb 12, 2015 03:23
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Sure, but you don't buy a Toyota truck to have a nice interior, you buy it to have a truck you can reliably beat the poo poo out of for a decade and still be worth money at the end of it. People who want a luxury sedan interior in their truck have Ford and Ram covering that base. As for the kerfuffle over Audi moving production to Mexico, the problem isn't quality, it's cachet. People buy overpriced, poorly engineered German cars because they get off on huffing superior German adhesive fumes and for the cachet the brand carries, the vehicle being built in Mexico harms that.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:46
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Tremblay posted:I'd argue they are. I have a Tacoma, and my brother has a Tundra Plat. Both are very capable trucks. Neither is a particularly excellent place to be. Toyota is cheap, and uses cheap materials. The Tundra Platinum, especially for what they charge is embarrassingly lovely compared to the interior of even the last gen F-150. The update to the Tacoma I'm not sure is going to fix that based on the pictures I've seen. The Prius is awful, especially if you compare it to the C-Max. I hate the exterior of the C-Max, but it's by far a nicer, and better drive than Prius. The old 2nd gen Prius actually had an ok interior, before they decontented it once they realized people were going to buy enough of them that they could actually try to make a profit off of them.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:53
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Wheeee posted:Sure, but you don't buy a Toyota truck to have a nice interior, you buy it to have a truck you can reliably beat the poo poo out of for a decade and still be worth money at the end of it. People who want a luxury sedan interior in their truck have Ford and Ram covering that base. I have a TRD OR, it was $32k. My brothers Tundra went for around $50k MSRP. For what they charge, they should do better. I'm not looking to feel like I"m sitting in a RR. If you are looking to buy a truck and a fullsize isn't an option for all kinds of reasons, what the hell could you buy other than a Tacoma until recently? Ford killed the Ranger, GMs had (have?) lots of power train issues on the Canyon/Colorado. I highly doubt most people have a freaking clue where they hell the final assembly is done on most vehicles. Unless there is a sticker on the window calling it out.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:00
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Tremblay posted:I have a TRD OR, it was $32k. My brothers Tundra went for around $50k MSRP. For what they charge, they should do better. I absolutely agree, the Frontier and other Nissans are guilty of the same thing. It is however a truck and if I can't have it all I'll take a cheap interior with reliability over something like the Colorado I had, which ate fuses like popcorn, had the speakers die one after another, had the HVAC stop working, then start working only on one speed, then stop working, had both power windows poo poo the bed at different times, then again simultaneously later, and which would regularly strand me for 15 minutes at a time waiting on GM's piece of poo poo Passkey security system to reset after locking the ignition despite the correct chipped key being used. My post reads like I'm apologizing for their cheap interiors, and I suppose in some way I am, because as unacceptable as Toyota's interiors should be at their price points, at the end of the day there's really no better choices out there if you're purchasing.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:09
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Wheeee posted:I absolutely agree, the Frontier and other Nissans are guilty of the same thing. It is however a truck and if I can't have it all I'll take a cheap interior with reliability over something like the Colorado I had, which ate fuses like popcorn, had the speakers die one after another, had the HVAC stop working, then start working only on one speed, then stop working, had both power windows poo poo the bed at different times, then again simultaneously later, and which would regularly strand me for 15 minutes at a time waiting on GM's piece of poo poo Passkey security system to reset after locking the ignition despite the correct chipped key being used. For mid size, I agree. For full size, I'm really hoping that the new F-150s are a step up in reliability. Even if they don't have the resale value that a Tundra would have. Again its not just the trucks. I disagree there are no better choices across the board. Midsize pickups? Yeah Tacoma will probably still be untouchable. GM has a shot. But it's GM so not holding my breath. I have no idea why someone is looking at a Corolla wouldn't run straight to Ford and buy a Focus. If someone is looking at a Prius, I don't know why they wouldn't be cross shopping there too. I'm not picking on you, I just find it annoying. Tremblay fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 04:19
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If you want a basic truck the Chevy WT2 has rubber floors, cloth seats, power windows, locks, keyless entry, bluetooth cd player with mic, a/c, and chrome dipped 17's. We just got a long bed v6 single cab for $22.4k and gets better mileage than most midsize trucks. The new colorado v6 drives depressing. It won't downshift to accelerate till you are almost to the floor trying to save fuel and costs a poo poo ton. A stripped stick ext cab was as much as the wt which has more features. As for ford, it is hard to get one without going to the 2.7L ecoboost unless you get a roll window v6. I don't know if I trust a first year model twin turbo motor that edmunds is averaging 17mpg in when ours is averaging 21.5mpg to be more reliable than a lsx based v6. Also, very little money on the hood on fords and the 2014's get worse mileage and are all loaded platinums in 4x4. Why can't you just buy a truck to be a truck anymore? $50k luxury pissing contests.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:26
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Christobevii3 posted:$50k luxury pissing contests. heh  Not even every option checked.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:40
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PeterWeller posted:Man, if you're gonna count shitboxes with okay power as enthusiast offerings, you might as well count the Tc as a contemporary enthusiast offering. The "fully half their lineup" bit is a real stretch. You're basically counting different trims as different models to puff up your numbers. And both of us are guilty of disregarding their offerings for offroad enthusiasts. The FR-S you keep holding up as an example of how they're totally not just making beigemobiles anymore is directly based on and inspired by the AE86 Corolla, or one of those "shitboxes with okay power", to the point where Toyota flew out their engineers and marketers to consult with the owner of club4ag.com, the largest website dedicated to shitboxes with okay power. In fact, those shitboxes with okay power were the first production vehicles sold in the US with DOHC 4 valve per cylinder engines outside of Exotic car engines like the Lotus Twincam and Ferrari Quattrovalvole. So maybe research a bit before you dismiss them as completely unimportant to enthusiasts. As for the FX16, goon Leica was just lamenting in another thread how much he wished he could find one here in the states because they're such fun little shitboxes to throw around. And as others already pointed out, the Celica Alltrac was very much a normal production model, though they did also sell limited production homologation versions of it with intercooler sprayers and all the other fancy race parts on them.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:49
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Actually it was the Cosworth Vega, IIRC. But keep sucking a sub par cars dick.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:56
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iwentdoodie posted:Actually it was the Cosworth Vega, IIRC. But keep sucking a sub par cars dick. Which car would that be?
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Feb 12, 2015 05:03
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SperginMcBadposter posted:Which car would that be? The AE86. It's a good car, but I wouldn't have called it an enthusiast car by any means at the time. Especially if you don't also call the tC one nowadays.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:05
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Tremblay posted:For mid size, I agree. For full size, I'm really hoping that the new F-150s are a step up in reliability. Even if they don't have the resale value that a Tundra would have. Again its not just the trucks. I disagree there are no better choices across the board. Midsize pickups? Yeah Tacoma will probably still be untouchable. GM has a shot. But it's GM so not holding my breath. I have no idea why someone is looking at a Corolla wouldn't run straight to Ford and buy a Focus. If someone is looking at a Prius, I don't know why they wouldn't be cross shopping there too. The only recent Ford I've been in that I really, really didn't care for was the Fusion. The dash seemed loving huge, and I hadn't the faintest idea where the hood ended (though I suppose driving a Mustang, I have different tastes and habits on that than most). If I needed a 4-door tomorrow, I'd pick up a FoST in a heartbeat.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:07
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HotCanadianChick posted:In fact, those shitboxes with okay power were the first production vehicles sold in the US with DOHC 4 valve per cylinder engines outside of Exotic car engines like the Lotus Twincam and Ferrari Quattrovalvole. To keep going with this, Toyota was putting 5 valve per cylinder engines in Corollas before Ferrari had any such engine in production.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:13
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iwentdoodie posted:The AE86. The tc is a 3000lb fwd car though, does it handle well? Can you even ~doriftu~ in it?  Power doesn't look like its strongpoint, so I don't know what it excels at if not handling.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:24
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SperginMcBadposter posted:I don't know what it excels at Nothing.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:29
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SperginMcBadposter posted:The tc is a 3000lb fwd car though, does it handle well? Can you even ~doriftu~ in it? It handles decently. No doriftu, and no power, but the AE86 doesn't have power either. They're both budget minded econoboxes with no power at a low price that handle decently.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:29
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iwentdoodie posted:The AE86. The sporty trim came with an LSD along with fancy engine, 4 wheel disk brakes, and five-speed. That's pretty sporty for the 80s. They had a respectable motorsports presence too. I don't think the tC even has an LSD available.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:30
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HotCanadianChick posted:The FR-S you keep holding up as an example of how they're totally not just making beigemobiles anymore is directly based on and inspired by the AE86 Corolla, or one of those "shitboxes with okay power", to the point where Toyota flew out their engineers and marketers to consult with the owner of club4ag.com, the largest website dedicated to shitboxes with okay power. Oh Lord. You spout dumb marketing bullshit like it's gospel truth then tell me I need to do my research. The FRS ain't based on the AE86. That's just a clever appeal to the drift crowd who love that car because of a cartoon. I'm not saying those weren't cool cars, but they're the equivalent of the Civic Si you have so little respect for. As for the altrac, those are so loving rare you can hardly build a case on them. And again, this is all tangential to your original point.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:36
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PT6A posted:The only recent Ford I've been in that I really, really didn't care for was the Fusion. The dash seemed loving huge, and I hadn't the faintest idea where the hood ended (though I suppose driving a Mustang, I have different tastes and habits on that than most). If I needed a 4-door tomorrow, I'd pick up a FoST in a heartbeat. If I had to put adults in the back regularly I'm not sure what I'd do for a larger sedan. Hell yes, the FoST looks awesome. I had a previous gen WRX and loved it. Maybe some day I can have a fun car like that again. I had that problem with Mustangs actually. The "sport" mode, which I usually find to be a complete gimmick, changed that car for me. With the steering tightened up I liked it a lot. Still only driven the automatics (rentals).
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Feb 12, 2015 06:07
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Mange Mite posted:The sporty trim came with an LSD along with fancy engine, 4 wheel disk brakes, and five-speed. That's pretty sporty for the 80s. They had a respectable motorsports presence too. All of that applies to NA 1.6l Miatas, but I guess those aren't enthusiast-oriented cars either according to forums enthusiast car authority PeterWeller.  (let's also ignore that in addition to the first-gen Miata, the AE86 had a similar power to weight ratio as a 1985 300ZX NA or a 1985 944 2.5l because those certainly aren't cars marketed towards enthusiasts either because they're obviously too slow) iwentdoodie posted:Actually it was the Cosworth Vega, IIRC. Doh, I left off the 'mass' part of 'mass production', and you are correct, the Cossie Vega came first, but it was a limited production model that was priced within a $900 of the Corvette, and they only made a little over 3000 of them. But yes, the Vega was first and was pretty awesome too, provided you can ever find one that survived. I'd like to have one someday, but I doubt I'll be able to find one at a reasonable price. iwentdoodie posted:But keep sucking a sub par cars dick. You should go post this in the Miata thread, I'm sure you'll get a warm welcome there. 
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Feb 12, 2015 11:16
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Chicago auto show starts today. somebody put out a new truck, i can't figure out what kind of truck it is.  kinda looks like a dodge, but i'm not quite sure.
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Feb 12, 2015 12:02
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Powershift posted:Chicago auto show starts today. somebody put out a new truck, i can't figure out what kind of truck it is. The fact that it's not a dodge, combined with your post might be a clue as to why they did that.
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Feb 12, 2015 12:29
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If that was the case, all the trucks in the line-up would look like that. That ugly is reserved for the new high end model. you pay extra for a 10 inch chrome ram on your rear end.
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Feb 12, 2015 12:34
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HotCanadianChick posted:
Supercapacitors won't ever replace conventional batteries because they have different properties. Capacitors charge very quickly, but they also discharge very quickly. I've spoken about this exact topic with Kinoshita-san (President of Toyota Motorsport GmBH, whose race car, the TS040, uses supercapacitors) about whether and when we might see them fitted to a road car, and he told me it would be in conjunction with traditional batteries, because the former would be good for things like overtaking on the motorway (when you need a burst of speed) but that batteries are still much better for low speed driving (ie traffic).
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Feb 12, 2015 12:55
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