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Short dungeons are good for suicide scrub squads to roll though. For your big boys and girls though, you will definitely front-load your camps for offensive buffs. You don't want to get into a situation where you are half/most the way through the dungeon, beat up from various battles and decide to camp to heal up only to get Ambushed and be in bad shape again by the time you get to the boss. Screw that. Pre-buff for offense and crush your fights as quick and efficiently as you can. Berk Berkly fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 13:59
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So the camp buff doesn't wear off until the next time you camp? I've never frontloaded before.
Jackard fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 15:02
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Jackard posted:So the camp buff doesn't wear off until the next time you camp? correct
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Feb 12, 2015 15:04
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That sounds like an oversight and will eventually get patched, best use it while you can.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:05
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Jackard posted:That sounds like an oversight and will eventually get patched, best use it while you can. What...  What else would the point of camp buffs be...? If they were regular buffs that last 3 rounds you couldn't even start a boss fight with it, because the 3 round limit would expire walking through the hallway.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:12
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Why would they patch it out? You trade in an opportunity ot heal and reduce stress for buffs.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:22
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Jackard posted:That sounds like an oversight and will eventually get patched, best use it while you can. No, it's intentional. Most of them even say "lasts until next camp." They do also end when you exit the dungeon with that character, of course. It's a deliberate design choice they talked about in the kickstarter. Lots of games have "camping" but generally it's no more than an artifact of memorizing spells in D&D. They wanted to add more strategic choices to it. So now it's a choice whether you camp early and get long term buffs, but lose some of the healing etc., or camp later and save your chances to heal but lose the opportunity for earlier buffing.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:27
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E: Hmm that's odd, I'd expect them to limited to a certain number of roomsDackel posted:What else would the point of camp buffs be...? Jackard fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 15:31
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It's not much of a decision at present. Early camping for buffs is almost always going to be a better decision once the survivalist shows up. I think there's a definite argument for some sort of re-balancing, but I'm not sure what the sensible approach would be. It sort of feels like stress management goes from important to trivial too quickly, so most of the potential mid-run camp value vanishes.
Irony.or.Death fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 15:31
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Quote is not edit
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Feb 12, 2015 15:48
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Irony.or.Death posted:It's not much of a decision at present. Early camping for buffs is almost always going to be a better decision once the survivalist shows up. I think there's a definite argument for some sort of re-balancing, but I'm not sure what the sensible approach would be. It sort of feels like stress management goes from important to trivial too quickly, so most of the potential mid-run camp value vanishes. Eh, has that changed now that stun-locking is less viable? Before it wasn't too much of an issue because the best way to heal wasn't camping, it was stunlock buffing for the last few rounds. Now it might be more of a choice. Jackard posted:Using them from the start of a medium dungeon and lasting until the very end doesn't sound intended Eh, the problem isn't so much camp buffs as that there are too many other good ways to heal stress and health -- the Jester's a little overpowered in the middle game, and stunlocking healing has been a big issue .The danger with camping early is that one of your dudes will get hosed by the RNG and you won't have a good way of stabilizing him outside of combat.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Eh, the problem isn't so much camp buffs as that there are too many other good ways to heal stress and health -- the Jester's a little overpowered in the middle game, and stunlocking healing has been a big issue .The danger with camping early is that one of your dudes will get hosed by the RNG and you won't have a good way of stabilizing him outside of combat. This would probably make the game a lot easier so I understand why it isn't included, but I wish I could use a Vestal's heals out of combat or the Jester's Stress Heal. Put like a hard limit on it, like can only use it 3 times per dungeon.
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Feb 12, 2015 16:27
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Seems like people recommending you should always camp early means that someone is in the wrong, either those people are mistaken or the devs haven't left players much of a choice.
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Feb 12, 2015 16:36
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Depends. For lv1 (maybe lv3) missions it's potentially better to wait, and possibly for bosses as well to make sure you're as high HP/as de-stressed as possible, but otherwise camping early is best policy (especially since it allows you to make the game darker quicker).
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Feb 12, 2015 16:48
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I really wish they kept the PC and Mac versions synced up.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:08
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Jackard posted:Seems like people recommending you should always camp early means that someone is in the wrong, either those people are mistaken or the devs haven't left players much of a choice. Devs definitely give you choice. I have completed medium quests without camping. I definitely prefer to camp right outside a boss door for the healing going into the fight, and that means traversing a medium dungeon on the way there that you can get through just fine (assuming luck and strategy hold--I've been screwed by crits and hunger events before). Camping for buffs makes a run that can handle its own healing more effective.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:17
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Man, Swine Prince almost hosed me up. It took 3 of those party-obliterating swings, and my Hellion saying "DON'T ATTACK THE LITTLE ONE", to wake me up. Game is getting good though, I'm getting a bunch of Veteran characters now.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:26
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enraged_camel posted:I kind of dislike that this is a valid tactic. Treating "heroes" as disposable is silly, feels way too cheesy, and makes the game too easy, in my opinion. Uh dude I am gonna refer to you to the game's opening placard: "Darkest Dungeon is about making the best of a bad situation. Quests will fail or need to be abandoned. Heroes will die. And when they die, they will stay dead." It then literally goes on to ask you what you will sacrifice to save the life of your favorite hero. Anyway I started playing this game yesterday, it loving rules. I haven't really gotten to the point of forming explicit teams yet, I'm sort of just cobbling together expeditions based on who's not stressed out of their minds. I've got a Highwayman and an Occultist I really like, though, the Highwayman's Grapeshot Volley is great. Still haven't gotten too far in, I'm being fairly cautious about hoarding heirlooms so I can get structures off the ground.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:31
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Did a medium dungeon the other day where I got hit with five hunger events. I didn't bring enough food to camp after the last one so I guess there are times where you want to hold off on camping. Not that you'd know that going in.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:39
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Zeruel posted:Man, Swine Prince almost hosed me up. The other fun thing I found out yesterday after the patch is that the stun diminishing returns don't apply to Wilbur's attacks on the party despite it working for any other NPC stunning your guys, so he'll still happily stun lock your party to death at the end of the pig royalty fight.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:40
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Jackard posted:Seems like people recommending you should always camp early means that someone is in the wrong, either those people are mistaken or the devs haven't left players much of a choice. It's just a play style. Saying "always camp first!!" is like, ok yeah you could do that. Or you could not. Whatever. I personally don't feel comfortable burning my safety option too early, because your guys could always miss three attacks in a row and then get double critted by a loving bandit Slice and Dice. Have I mentioned that bandits still need to be dialed back? Because bandits are still the most dangerous guys in the game and need to be dialed back.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:50
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pandaK posted:Ah, so that's what it is. On one hand I'm kind of bummed out because chance took off some of my most favorite quirks and replaced them with some really dumb ones (+ranged damage for my crusader, thanks), but I can see why they'd hard limit them like that. Though it'd be a lot cooler if you had some form of controlling which quirks get deleted. If you take them to the sanitarium so they don't have max quirks anymore, you can control which quirk gets replaced  It costs you though. It makes some sense that if you don't keep up with it, random ones get dropped, possibly good ones. Upgrading the sanitarium isn't a bad idea by any means.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:06
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Yea I'm glad they nerfed blanket fire crit but bandits still killed my leper party
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Feb 12, 2015 18:07
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paranoid randroid posted:It's just a play style. Saying "always camp first!!" is like, ok yeah you could do that. Or you could not. Whatever. I personally don't feel comfortable burning my safety option too early, because your guys could always miss three attacks in a row and then get double critted by a loving bandit Slice and Dice. Have I mentioned that bandits still need to be dialed back? Because bandits are still the most dangerous guys in the game and need to be dialed back. No they dont. Roll a Bounty hunter. I always had a bounty hunter, and never realized they were a problem til reading this thread.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:08
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Zaphod42 posted:If you take them to the sanitarium so they don't have max quirks anymore, you can control which quirk gets replaced Wait you can remove positive quirks in the sanitarium now?
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Feb 12, 2015 18:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Wait you can remove positive quirks in the sanitarium now? Oh no, I was just thinking that getting rid of one would drop your max count but you're right, since good quirks and negative quirks are partitioned, that doesn't really work. My bad. 
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Feb 12, 2015 18:14
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Zaphod42 posted:Oh no, I was just thinking that getting rid of one would drop your max count but you're right, since good quirks and negative quirks are partitioned, that doesn't really work. we need a boot camp that we can send them to, so we can remove positive quirks.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:16
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Can you pick any bad quirk to remove in the sanitarium? I have a Hellion with three bad quirks to 4 good ones, so I dropped her in the Sanitarium and only one bad quirk was available to remove (it also seemed to list all the good quirks too but they were not selectable). Removing and replacing her didn't give me a new list. Is it random which quirks are removable?
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Feb 12, 2015 18:17
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Fhqwhgads posted:Can you pick any bad quirk to remove in the sanitarium? I have a Hellion with three bad quirks to 4 good ones, so I dropped her in the Sanitarium and only one bad quirk was available to remove (it also seemed to list all the good quirks too but they were not selectable). Removing and replacing her didn't give me a new list. Is it random which quirks are removable? Sounds like you hit a bug or something. I've been able to remove any negative quirk and have never seen a positive one in the list. Honore_De_Balzac posted:we need a boot camp that we can send them to, so we can remove positive quirks.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:19
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How do I manage stress? Right now I'm at 50 gold and all of my guys at the brink of 100% stress. Feels like doing well is more up to luck than anything.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:20
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Fhqwhgads posted:Can you pick any bad quirk to remove in the sanitarium? I have a Hellion with three bad quirks to 4 good ones, so I dropped her in the Sanitarium and only one bad quirk was available to remove (it also seemed to list all the good quirks too but they were not selectable). Removing and replacing her didn't give me a new list. Is it random which quirks are removable? I don't think so. I believe you're supposed to be able to remove any, but its been pretty buggy for different people. I could be wrong  Kikka posted:How do I manage stress? Right now I'm at 50 gold and all of my guys at the brink of 100% stress. If you have less than $2K gold you're in meat grinder mode. Hire level 0 heroes, send them on a mission with no supplies, get all the gold you can and retreat. Then fire everybody so you don't have to deal with their stress. Then hire new people and do it again until you can afford to take care of their stress. (Getting real tired of saying this on literally every page guys, read the guide in the OP)
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Feb 12, 2015 18:20
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paranoid randroid posted:It's just a play style. Saying "always camp first!!" is like, ok yeah you could do that. Or you could not. Whatever. I personally don't feel comfortable burning my safety option too early, because your guys could always miss three attacks in a row and then get double critted by a loving bandit Slice and Dice. Have I mentioned that bandits still need to be dialed back? Because bandits are still the most dangerous guys in the game and need to be dialed back. No they're not. Bandits can easily be taken down in a turn or two. By far the most dangerous enemies are the double size ones you encounter in lv3+ dungeons, especially the Swinetaur's who do a ton of damage and can attack from pretty much any position, so you can't trivialize them by moving them to the back like you can giants.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:22
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Genocyber posted:No they're not. Bandits can easily be taken down in a turn or two. By far the most dangerous enemies are the double size ones you encounter in lv3+ dungeons, especially the Swinetaur's who do a ton of damage and can attack from pretty much any position, so you can't trivialize them by moving them to the back like you can giants. Considering you run into bandits often in level 1 dungeons though, they're still a bit overpowered.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:24
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I asked earlier but this thread moves very fast: Does the game change when you get further in? It seems like you get access to every class and ability like three weeks into the game and upgrades are just bigger numbers. Is there stuff later on that mixes things up or am I going to be making my 'perfect' teams a month in and then just going through the motions of having one team in-action while the other recuperates?
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Feb 12, 2015 18:25
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Genocyber posted:No they're not. Bandits can easily be taken down in a turn or two. By far the most dangerous enemies are the double size ones you encounter in lv3+ dungeons, especially the Swinetaur's who do a ton of damage and can attack from pretty much any position, so you can't trivialize them by moving them to the back like you can giants. Swinetaurs are useless something like half the time because their big attack moves them to the front and the only things they can do in the front is Backhand, which sucks, and Trot Retreat, which I have only ever see hit once for 1 damage. The tentacle things, I have no idea about because they always do that Weaken Prey attack that marks someone and then I kill them. Maybe they're super dangerous if you let them live? I will admit that I forgot about those big ghoul guys. They're probably a bigger pain in the rear end than brigands.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:29
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Pierson posted:I asked earlier but this thread moves very fast: Does the game change when you get further in? It seems like you get access to every class and ability like three weeks into the game and upgrades are just bigger numbers. Is there stuff later on that mixes things up or am I going to be making my 'perfect' teams a month in and then just going through the motions of having one team in-action while the other recuperates? Dungeons get harder and longer but its pretty much just more of the same. Have you encountered camping and camp skills yet? That throws a wrench in the mix, but otherwise its just bigger numbers and stuff.  There's some really cool trinkets that change things up some, but no mostly you'll settle into a groove for what teams you like and then you'll try to upgrade those teams as much as you can. Thing is... there's gonna be losses. So its not like once you get a team you like, that's that. You're gonna have to adapt to losses and have other heroes ready to pick up the slack, that are on or near the same level. Also they'll be adding end-game quest things later.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:35
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Pierson posted:I asked earlier but this thread moves very fast: Does the game change when you get further in? It seems like you get access to every class and ability like three weeks into the game and upgrades are just bigger numbers. Is there stuff later on that mixes things up or am I going to be making my 'perfect' teams a month in and then just going through the motions of having one team in-action while the other recuperates? You get different trinkets and you access more difficult dungeons with different monsters. The harder monsters aren't just palette swaps either, plenty have entirely new art and even the "enemy +1" guys tend to have new tricks. If you have unlocked and fully upgraded every building in town then there isn't anything new you will see in your teams besides trinkets and horrible maladies.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:39
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Pierson posted:I asked earlier but this thread moves very fast: Does the game change when you get further in? It seems like you get access to every class and ability like three weeks into the game and upgrades are just bigger numbers. Is there stuff later on that mixes things up or am I going to be making my 'perfect' teams a month in and then just going through the motions of having one team in-action while the other recuperates? Some of the quest types change as you get higher up. There's quests like "Restore holy altars" and "Collect grains" where you have to find stuff in the dungeons, but it's not too much different than the early stuff.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:41
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Camping first relies on you have a party that is able to take care of itself for the rest of the medium dungeon, or at least half of the long dungeon. You also need to have party skills with strong self buffs, some compositions don't really have great buff options, and those are much more suited for a mid-dungeon heal/de-stress session. Then like some people have said, you're giving up that safety net, because as long as you brought enough food that camp is a 25% heal 10 stress clicky for your whole party at minimum. On another note, I think they need to make quest items stack, because the worst quests are the "collect 3 of these", and the "use 3 of these" aren't much better if it takes you too long to find any quest spots. That is a lot of loot you can miss out on, though I haven't directly compared quest rewards so maybe it makes up for it there?
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Feb 12, 2015 18:50
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Is it me, or does backtracking through corridors you have already explored not guarantee that they will be empty? I've hit traps and run into monsters before when doubling back. Maybe it's something that only happens in total darkness?
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Feb 12, 2015 19:46
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