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EvanTH posted:Mirotic takes way more threes and his TS% is .554 while Wiggins is .506 so I dunno about using straight FG% It is a lot harder to look efficient if you're the #1 option on a lovely team than if you are the #4 option on a good (though inconsistent) one. I think you can make the case for both, but Wiggins has been asked to do a whole lot more and still has looked good. The minutes difference is a pretty big difference. Also Wiggins is a lot more "exciting" which will end up counting for a lot.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:40
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Feb 12, 2015 17:42
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Speaking of sportvu, here's andrew johnson's player tracking plus minus top 25 KHRIS MIDDLETON http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/02/11/half-season-player-tracking-plus-minus-rankings/ Here's the bottom 25  The parentheses mean negative, and our friend, Zach Lavine, is on top. He's bad at basketball yall.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:42
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gently caress a babbitt I hate that he actually has to get minutes right now due to injuries and depth. He is almost as annoying to watch as John Salmons. The only difference is that Luke's shots actually go in the basket.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:46
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MourningView posted:Oh I guess it's the break so not everyone flew back with the team, so that's not a huge deal. Apparently his agent has been asking utah to trade Kanter for a couple years now too because he doesn't like how they use him or how contract talks have progressed. He's actually not completely awful, but is he making insane contract demands and Gobert has rendered him pretty superfluous. There apparently isn't much interest in him from other teams, unfortunately. I agree with his dubious representation. He's not setting the world on fire but he is a young seven footer who doesn't trip over his own feet so someone will pay him at least decent cash. Being outplayed by another young center on the roster is just tanking his value. He's good enough to start at center for a lot of teams in the league but being on a young developing team that seems to have moved on to developing another guy at your position is probably not ideal.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:50
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Igor Strelkov posted:
I think he's being played out of position as a PG and I'd like to see him get minutes at the 2 where he can cut off-ball more. But Flip just traded away our backup PG so its all-aboard the LaVine Train! Wooooooo
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Feb 12, 2015 17:51
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Igor Strelkov posted:Speaking of sportvu, here's andrew johnson's player tracking plus minus top 25 Look at all those Kings in the bottom!
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Feb 12, 2015 17:52
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Lockback posted:I think he's being played out of position as a PG and I'd like to see him get minutes at the 2 where he can cut off-ball more. But Flip just traded away our backup PG so its all-aboard the LaVine Train! Wooooooo Maybe it's the play the athletic freak out of position at pg to give him a ton of experience in a short time plan. It worked for Giannis. And it's a great plan if they want to tank the season.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:52
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Wiggins has come on real strong recently and I assume he'll run away with it after the break, but assuming everyone dies immediately I'd give it to Mirotic because he's been overall the most positively impactful rookie I'm not sure what's so outlandish about that?
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Feb 12, 2015 18:01
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Guys I found Jameer Nelson! I found him!
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Feb 12, 2015 18:03
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I guess I just look at it like Damian Lillard and Anthony Davis would both be good cornerstone type players for a roster. Mirotic is a good 6 or 7 guy. Also, Wiggins defense is so much better and also I don't trust Chicago bench types. Thibs is performing some kind of super NBA serum experiments on them. (DJ Augustin was his finest creation) EDIT: HASSAN WHITESIDE UP THERE WITH JAMES HARDEN AND STEPH CURRY YA BOI
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Feb 12, 2015 18:05
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attackmole posted:Mirotic is worse than Wiggins and Payton and plays like 5 minutes a game and jesus christ how is this even a conversation. A few pages ago someone argued that Korver's offense was as impactful as Ben Wallace's defense so we're dealing with a different plane of reality
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Feb 12, 2015 18:22
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Libertine posted:I agree with his dubious representation. He's not setting the world on fire but he is a young seven footer who doesn't trip over his own feet so someone will pay him at least decent cash. Being outplayed by another young center on the roster is just tanking his value. He's good enough to start at center for a lot of teams in the league but being on a young developing team that seems to have moved on to developing another guy at your position is probably not ideal. Apparently the rest of the league disagrees given how difficult it has been for them to find a taker. And if he's starting at center for a team that team is probably really loving bad. It's not like Utah didn't give him a chance. They invested a high draft pick in him, gave him a bunch of minutes, and tried to make the Favors/Kanter thing work. The starting job was his to lose and he lost it. They're moving on because he hasn't been very good. MourningView fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 18:23
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MourningView posted:Apparently the rest of the league disagrees given how difficult it has been for them to find a taker. And if he's starting at center for a team that team is probably really loving bad. Hard to find a taker in general, or hard to find someone to part a 1st rounder with for a guy that's expiring?
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Feb 12, 2015 18:27
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dokmo posted:A few pages ago someone argued that Korver's offense was as impactful as Ben Wallace's defense so we're dealing with a different plane of reality Isn't rookie of the year usually decided by points per game? The difference is that Evan was expressing his opinion about the most impactful rookie thus far, which is a different thing than probable rookie of the year winner.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:28
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Igor Strelkov posted:Isn't rookie of the year usually decided by points per game? He actually said that Mirotic was ROY, which was what I took exception with. Mirotic is fine, but Wiggins is the ROY at this point. I actually think Jabari Parker would have given him a run for his money on that insane Bucks roster.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:30
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PantsFreeZone posted:I guess I just look at it like Damian Lillard and Anthony Davis would both be good cornerstone type players for a roster. Mirotic is a good 6 or 7 guy. Mirotic absolutely looks like he'll be a solid NBA starter before too many seasons, your anti-Bulls bias is weird. I'd give it to Wiggins because he has been more impressive in his larger role, but Mirotic looks like the clear 2nd best and you absolutely can make a case for him. Elfrid Payton has a lot of work to do before he'll be a decent PG....
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Feb 12, 2015 18:32
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Tae posted:Hard to find a taker in general, or hard to find someone to part a 1st rounder with for a guy that's expiring? Lowe is saying that the rest of the league is weary of him and his agent, and all the Jazz beat guys are saying that other teams aren't interested. I don't know what exactly they're asking for. This isn't something new, he's been demanding a trade for a few years now, and I would guess they've explored the possibility over that period and haven't found anyone willing to give up anything of value for him. I don't know that they should be expected to just give him away for nothing. He's not toxically bad, he's just not as good as he apparently thinks he is and is not part of their future.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:35
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Lockback posted:Mirotic absolutely looks like he'll be a solid NBA starter before too many seasons, your anti-Bulls bias is weird. It isn't that weird. I moved to Chicago the year the Big 3 came together in Miami. I had to put up with Bulls fans all of Derrick Rose's "MVP" season and they didn't shut up until LeBron guarded Derrick Rose and shut him down in the ECF. I've been jeered and lambasted on every train ride downtown and every United Center game I've attended. When Deng ended the 27 game win streak I was in the stands being covered with spittle from all the celebratory rasberries. Simple as that.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:35
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Kanter is a FA. Even though he's restricted, teams probably aren't too interested in giving up anything for a guy who will be hitting the market soon.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:37
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MourningView posted:Apparently the rest of the league disagrees given how difficult it has been for them to find a taker. And if he's starting at center for a team that team is probably really loving bad. Isn't he a FA this summer? Why trade for a malcontent young piece when you can just make him an offer in a few months. I agree with you that the team he would have to help right now given his current skillset would be a bad one. Bad teams can afford to wait. I don't think he's setting anyone on fire to make a huge offer, but I think he's probably already a Top 30 center and he's got potential for more development still given that he's young. He'd be a starting Center upgrade for like 7 or 8 teams. That's a lot of opportunity in free agency but a very specific set of trade partners and Utah probably doesn't like what they are seeing because it's just people wanting to take out a flyer on him given his pending free agency. I agree that he's lost it long-term to Gobert slowly eating his minutes, but if it weren't for his surprising development then Kanter would probably be getting the kind of minutes he wants right now. I think there are worse problems teams can have then deciding between two young 7 footers.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:38
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WhyteRyce posted:Kanter is a FA. Even though he's restricted, teams probably aren't too interested in giving up anything for a guy who will be hitting the market soon. This has been going on for longer than this year though. And if anyone thought he was that good I imagine someone would be looking to add him to get the advantage in negotiating an extension with him. Libertine posted:He'd be a starting Center upgrade for like 7 or 8 teams. who
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Feb 12, 2015 18:39
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Players in the 50/40/90 club for this season, averaging more than 10 mpg: Kyle Korver Meyers Leonard  In reality though, despite that statistic being more funny than anything else, Meyers Leonard's turnaround from comically bad to capable (and even decent) NBA player has been really fun to watch this season.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:42
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That guy was an idiot. Kyle Korver's offense is as impactful as Tony Allen's defense, you cant really do an accurate defense-offense comparison across positions.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:42
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MourningView posted:Lowe is saying that the rest of the league is weary of him and his agent, and all the Jazz beat guys are saying that other teams aren't interested. I don't know what exactly they're asking for. This isn't something new, he's been demanding a trade for a few years now, and I would guess they've explored the possibility over that period and haven't found anyone willing to give up anything of value for him. I don't know that they should be expected to just give him away for nothing. He's not toxically bad, he's just not as good as he apparently thinks he is and is not part of their future. He's in that blurry Greg Monroe zone that everyone is scared of. He's not a great post defender, not athletic enough to play aggressive defense, and while he can get points in a pretty efficient way, but he's not such an overwhelming threat that he distorts defenses. On the right team, with the right role I think he could be a meaningful contributor, but you can say that about most guys. I'm happy that Utah has Gobert and can move on from Kanter. And I'm somewhat surprised that Favors has become a good offensive player, but it's cool. His rim protection has improved a lot, although he doesn't need to be that guy nearly as much, now that they have Gobert. Dante Exum has terrible +/- but he's looked competent and sometimes awesome in flashes. Add that to Hayward actually playing up to his contract, and I'm excited for Utah's future.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:43
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That's basically the Jonas Valunciunas problem as well.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:44
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Is Kanter considered a C or PF? I'd love to have him backup Bosh, but it seems like he wants to be a starter and, welp Whiteside.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:45
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Quandary posted:Players in the 50/40/90 club for this season, averaging more than 10 mpg: The first time I saw Meyers Leonard hit a corner 3 I was sure I must have died at some point earlier that day. And then he did it again.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:45
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MourningView posted:This has been going on for longer than this year though. And if anyone thought he was that good I imagine someone would be looking to add him to get the advantage in negotiating an extension with him. Denver Houston (assuming Dwight Howard stays injured/declined -- big assumption) Indiana (considering how far off a cliff Hibbert has fallen) Lakers (LOL) Milwaukee Knicks (LOL) Oklahoma City (maybe the worst Center rotation in the entire league) Phoenix Kanter is statistically out-performing the major Center players for those teams right now.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:46
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:That guy was an idiot. Kyle Korver's offense is as impactful as Tony Allen's defense, you cant really do an accurate defense-offense comparison across positions. I think I am the idiot in question but I wasn't making that argument. I was asking what their respective impacts were because I was curious. Obviously the standards for a four time all star and a second injury replacement in a garbage conference are different anyways.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:48
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Korver's offense is more efficient than L James. Really makes you think who the real GOAT is
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Feb 12, 2015 18:49
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PantsFreeZone posted:Is Kanter considered a C or PF? I'd love to have him backup Bosh, but it seems like he wants to be a starter and, welp Whiteside. I think he's more of a 5 in the sense that his midrange game is pretty putrid. You could probably play him and Bosh together easy, but he's not a great fit with another under-the-basket guy. The reason you'd trade for him is to get his bird rights. If you think he's a 8 mil/yr guy (Which he is maybe?), you get him for 4 now along with his bird rights. I still don't know where he'd fit that would make him a starter and also be willing to give something up.
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Feb 12, 2015 18:53
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Payton looks like he has made a lot if progress from the first 20 games. Id like to see a chart on it, this is just from casually watching some games and highlights. Confirm?
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Feb 12, 2015 19:16
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I was impressed with him even in the first 20 games
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Feb 12, 2015 19:21
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I was impressed with his hair since day 1.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:45
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Igor Strelkov posted:Isn't rookie of the year usually decided by points per game? Here is a decision tree for the last 37 rookies of the year (including some ties).  (All numbers are relative to rookie averages that season) If you are the rookie leader in PPG you've won 24 of 35 ROY.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:50
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dokmo posted:A few pages ago someone argued that Korver's offense was as impactful as Ben Wallace's defense so we're dealing with a different plane of reality Why do Ben Wallace's teams generally not take a nose dive defensively when he leaves the floor?
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Feb 12, 2015 19:50
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Excited for Joel embiid Roy campaign next year. Although big men sometimes take a few years.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:57
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Yeah China can have Africa tho.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:58
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Igor Strelkov posted:I don't understand why the Suns would want to trade Dragic at all I am not sure the Suns actually want to trade him, but everyone assumes one of those three PGs is going. I know Rich Paul was sure pushing the "Bledsoe for Randle and Hill" thing a lot but it wasn't a possible trade when it was "rumored" so not sure if the Suns were actually into it. I think if they do dump one it's going to be IT who seems to fit in the least and is probably the easiest to move. Redgrendel2001 posted:Counterpoint: Robert Sarver This should always be kept in mind though.
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Feb 12, 2015 20:02
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