|
Have we seen Black Widow's wrists in the movies?
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 17:23 |
|
|
EC posted:Have we seen Black Widow's wrists in the movies? She wore a dress in Avengers and no one as ever noticed crazy scars, and let's face it, they would have. But since this program has been referred to as the origins of the Black Widow program, we probably can't make the leap that she went through the exact same thing. It might have changed over time (maybe they got better restraints decades later.) We haven't be shown anything to indicate Romanov went through the exact same thing yet. Obviously it is building up to what is likely to be a Romanov flashback in Age of Ultron. So I guess we will know for sure then. And at the very least, she, in the 21st century, is probably more capable of covering those kinds of scars up, considering they have fake face technology now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 17:04
|
|
|
Russia was still recovering from the war. It's not too much of a stretch to think the Red Room eventually learns its lesson and upgrades to padded restraints.
sunday at work fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Feb 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 17:19
|
|
|
Also, y'know, the people you're infiltrating aren't supposed to know about your secret assassin program. If Peggy hadn't made the note that the wrist scar would be A Thing, nobody would be the wiser.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
Well, they did intentionally draw our heroes to that location with the fake typewriter message. Why they chose to lead them somewhere that would show off the little girls I have no idea. They could have sent them to a standard run of the mill military base to "discover" and "save" the good Doctor...
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 18:50
|
|
|
Masonity posted:Well, they did intentionally draw our heroes to that location with the fake typewriter message. The fact only one girl was there makes me think they had evacuated the widows-in-training before luring them there and the one they found had been hiding or something and was left behind.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:This is why and how that argument is misused. Well, just to be clear, you're saying that how much a story "matters" to the broader shared universe is as important as, if not more important than, more conventional standards of narrative and artistic quality. Now, it's obviously true that that mindset is extremely widespread among fans of shared universes, and I'm not completely immune to it myself. But it's ultimately a pretty lousy way to judge whether a work is worth your time and money.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:12
|
|
|
In actual SHIELD news, Drea De Matteo has been cast in a villain role. http://marvel.com/news/tv/24082/drea_de_matteo_turns_villainous_in_marvels_agents_of_shield. Either they're doing a Daredevil crossover episode, or they're just pulling random 616 character names out of a hat. Or Karla Faye Gideon is just a smokescreen for a less obscure canon character... possibly a certain other Karla, who actually is a superpowered villain in 616?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
Barry Convex posted:Well, just to be clear, you're saying that how much a story "matters" to the broader shared universe is as important as, if not more important than, more conventional standards of narrative and artistic quality. Never said it was as important or more important, just that it seems to matter to audiences in general. The whole MCU gimmick is that it is a shared universe, something that hasn't really been attempted before in this capacity outside of comic books. Having a show set near the epicenter of the shared universe that you could not watch and not actually miss anything can make people less interested*, because it is inherently shedding the biggest draw of the franchise it's in. People being uninterested in the show, regardless of how "good" the stories may be, is objectively a bad thing, because shows that people are not interested in don't get watched. Shows that don't get watched, regardless of how "good" they are, tend to get cancelled. Shows that get cancelled, have unfinished stories. People tend to hate watching shows that get cancelled, and if the overriding feeling of a show is that it may get cancelled, it makes people less likely to want to commit the time to watch it. The fact that I am willing to stick with the ship til it sinks is irrelevant because the show doesn't live or die based on how much I like it. Obviously, SHIELD isn't cancelled (yet) and it may not be anytime soon. But the fact of the matter is, the lower than expected ratings for the show, after an extremely strong debut, and given that the show marketed itself using imagery from The Avengers, is kind of telling of what people wanted or expected from the show. Yeah some people were dumb and got mad that RDJ wasn't on the show chilling with Ruffalo and Evans. But I think more people just wanted a show that really felt like it was as much of a part of the MCU as any movies. Hell it was said that the show was inspired by the Item 47 short, and people honestly thought that AOS was going to be more along the lines of something like Damage Control as result. SHIELD dealing with adjusting to a post alien invasion world, cleaning up after the messes presented in the big films. Name drops and nods aren't enough, and it took more than halfway through the first season for the show to be directly tied to the events of a movie. I think SHIELD is on the right track now, but its only on the right track, it isn't actually there yet. I think Age of Ultron and Civil War will provide similar ammo to Avengers 1 and Iron Man 3, both of which the show really dropped the ball with. So we'll have to wait and see. Like I said, next week will really test the commitment of Disney into making a legitimate entry into the MCU for TV, as opposed to half assing a show in a failed attempt to boost ratings on their network. I don't think season 2 is half assing it, but we have half the season to go, so its possible they can spend the rest of the season spinning their wheels. *Yeah yeah, they aren't going to make it so you have to watch a show in order to understand a film. The point of that statement is that you really could just not watch AoS and stick to the movies and not feel that you missed anything. Coulson being alive should be a big deal, you would think, as is the whole TAHITI thing, but there is not even a single hint of any of that existing in Winter Soldier, a movie about SHIELD and dirty secrets. Age of Ultron looks like it is going to shake up the status quo again, and Fury is in it, so we will see again, if the fact that the show exists is completely ignored again. There really isn't any reason for it, story-wise. Coulson being alive due to secret science voodoo and them not telling the Avengers about it seems like it would be a pretty big deal, especially if Ultron exists because of secret science voodoo himself. And seeing as how SHIELD is still making the news what with the army looking for them and the fake attack on the UN, I don't know how the subject wouldn't come up, especially if Fury shows up to chat. Why does it matter to me? Because I would like some pay off for sticking with the show through the low points. The same way it was awesome to see AoS after watching Winter Soldier and see an extended look at the crumbling of SHIELD, I'd like to see all of this stuff pay off in a big way. The Inhuman stuff was a nice pay off within the show itself. I am waiting for Coulson's resurrection and him becoming the new director to pay off now. He's only on the show because he was popular in the movies, so it is kind of dumb to literally raise him from the dead in order to just never let him interact, in any way, with the characters that made him famous in the first place, some of which were kind of devastated when he died.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:Having a show set near the epicenter of the shared universe that you could not watch and not actually miss anything can make people less interested*, because it is inherently shedding the biggest draw of the franchise it's in. Nah, the biggest draw is the consistent tone, not the consistent world. The shared universe is just how this is marketed, letting audiences know that Agents of SHIELD is attempting to ape the tone of The Avengers, in contrast to the significant differences between, say, Man of Steel and The Flash. General audiences aren't much concerned with plot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:24
|
|
|
I just found out that Agent Carter actually gets the same ratings as The Flash.  It's a fuckin' strange universe we exist in where the former is considered to be "struggling" while the latter is considered to be a hit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 00:16
|
|
|
I would bet that a big chunk of the people who go and see the movies are not actually that bothered about the interconectedness of all the movies. It would be interesting to see how many people stay to watch the mid and post credit bits that have become a thing with the marvel films. I love that poo poo but I would say a good 70% of the audience are out of their seat and gone as soon as the credits roll. I love the extra little bits but have missed a bunch of them at the cinema fue to either the people I was with wanting to bug out ASAP or not realising that they had started doing a second end of credit bit in addition to the mid credit bit. All of that stuff is mainly to create a bigger sense of the greater shared universe but most people probably don't see it. Lets face it most of the cinema going public are not nerds like us. I bet hardly any of the general public cared or noticed that Bruce Banner was another new actor again (if they even know who Bruce Banner is) - as long as the green CGI dude smashes stuff all is good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 01:05
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:I just found out that Agent Carter actually gets the same ratings as The Flash. DIfferent networks have different standards for hits
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 01:13
|
|
|
The CW has a totally different revenue system - their small ratings are bolstered by shows that have devoted fans. Those fans buy merchandise of all sorts. And the network also films almost entirely in canada, with a totally different budget than most network shows. Plus, The CW is EXCELLENT at pushing shows in the international market. Something like Nikita survived several seasons simply by garnering huge international ratings in asia and parts of europe. I can only speak to the first terrible half of agents of shield, so take this with a grain of salt - I could care less if Agents of SHIELD "matters" to the larger marvel universe. I'm going to watch Daredevil because it looks awesome with interesting characters and a unique viewpoint. I could not give less of a poo poo if Charlie Cox flies into Age of Ultron for a cameo. Pretty much all of my problems with AoS came entirely from bland characters and a go-nowhere plot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 07:33
|
|
|
Narcissus1916 posted:The CW has a totally different revenue system - their small ratings are bolstered by shows that have devoted fans. Those fans buy merchandise of all sorts. And the network also films almost entirely in canada, with a totally different budget than most network shows. Plus, The CW is EXCELLENT at pushing shows in the international market. Something like Nikita survived several seasons simply by garnering huge international ratings in asia and parts of europe. I know this is probably a lost cause, but if you haven't done so yet, you should watch the post-Winter Solder AoS episodes, because the go-nowhere plot actually went somewhere. Somewhere pretty good, too. Also Agent Ward went from the worst character to the best.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 08:44
|
|
|
But then he shaved
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 17:42
|
|
|
Only two episodes left! Can't wait to see the thread blow up when it turns out Leviathan was being run by Buddy the Dog who stays alive so long because they periodically throw a tennis ball into a Lazarus Pit every ten years or so.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 18:24
|
|
|
The Red Queen posted:Only two episodes left! Can't wait to see the thread blow up when it turns out Leviathan was being run by Buddy the Dog who stays alive so long because they periodically throw a tennis ball into a Lazarus Pit every ten years or so. What would sex in a Lazarus Pit be like?
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 20:25
|
|
|
Dexo posted:What would sex in a Lazarus Pit be like? Do you think the SSR chief poisoned the guard or gave him a pill made from lazarus extract?
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
Its kinda ironic that the central conflict in this past episode could have been avoided if Peggy acted like a rational human being and worked with her male coworkers instead of running off half cocked every time her boss told her "no." Can you imagine how much farther along the investigation would have been if she actually cooperated with the SSR, instead of forcing them to track her down in addition to Stark and Leviathan? I know she's supposed to be the hero and all, but its tough rooting for someone who doesn't think through the consequences of her own actions.TheBystander posted:I know this is probably a lost cause, but if you haven't done so yet, you should watch the post-Winter Solder AoS episodes, because the go-nowhere plot actually went somewhere. Somewhere pretty good, too. Yeah, it went from Fury's swinging airplane base to a dingy warehouse with doodles carved in all the walls. Irish Joe fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Feb 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 23:04
|
|
|
Irish Joe posted:Its kinda ironic that the central conflict in this past episode could have been avoided if Peggy acted like a rational human being and worked with her male coworkers instead of running off half cocked every time her boss told her "no." Can you imagine how much farther along the investigation would have been if she actually cooperated with the SSR, instead of forcing them to track her down in addition to Stark and Leviathan? I know she's supposed to be the hero and all, but its tough rooting for someone who doesn't think through the consequences of her own actions. I'm not sure you and I are watching the same show. Until last episode, her male co-worker couldn't give a poo poo about her opinion and had absolutely no respect for her abilities. Getting coffee and answering the phone is all she's good for according to them. Peggy had to do all this crap behind their back. Its not that she goes off running half-cocked like you said.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 02:17
|
|
|
You mean like when she told them exactly how Howard was robbed and they basically told her just go investigate to get her out of their hair? Or how the only way that she was able to go to Russian when she was the best person to send was due to her getting the Howling Commandos?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 02:23
|
|
|
Please stop acknowledging Irish Joe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 02:24
|
|
|
AbsolutelySane posted:Considering the propensity for women of the time to wear long sleeves, that scar on her wrist is probably not that easy to spot. It's 1946, not 1746.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
Colonial Air Force posted:It's 1946, not 1746. Counterpoint: She was wearing long sleeves.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 03:04
|
|
|
Mymla posted:Counterpoint: She was wearing long sleeves. She was, because she had something to hide. That doesn't mean it's a "propensity" for most women. Looking at pictures and fashion of the day, it's at least 50/50 split. Certainly, there was no social pressure for women to cover up their arms.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 03:15
|
|
|
I liked that Carter got captured. She was taking a risk going back to her residence and she knew it. Angie gave her a reprieve, but her immediately going down the stairs was still dangerous and might have gotten her captured anyway. Her co-workers aren't completely incompetent, after all. I also have to wonder what Carter's plan was after she got out of the Griffin safely.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 04:53
|
|
|
I'm shocked no one as outraged as I that Adam "MCA" Yauch's grandfather got brainwashed to walk into traffic. A tragic start for a Beastie Boy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 05:00
|
|
|
bunnyofdoom posted:But then he shaved I choose to believe that Ward will remain batshit crazy like a fox during the second half of the season. Crazy Ward is Best Ward.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 05:14
|
|
|
We haven't gotten a lot of unshaved ward this season but what was there was fine. When he helped Skye and then she opened fire on his rear end without giving it a second thought was a good episode for two previously problematic characters. I wanted to bring that up in the Arrow thread when somebody was wishing a character there Diggle would have shot a major bad guy Merlyn. I was like "Skye would have!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 05:53
|
|
|
Timett posted:We haven't gotten a lot of unshaved ward this season but what was there was fine. When he helped Skye and then she opened fire on his rear end without giving it a second thought was a good episode for two previously problematic characters. That was probably me. But then again the end result is the same, both of them are still alive. Ward's plot armor gives him the ability to survive being shot 4 times 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 06:33
|
|
|
CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:That was probably me. But then again the end result is the same, both of them are still alive. Ward's plot armor gives him the ability to survive being shot 4 times pfft, the Arrow's plot armor is so thick it allows him to survive being run threw with a sword, shoved off a cliff. and left lying in the freezing cold, all in one fight
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 06:48
|
|
|
hangedman1984 posted:pfft, the Arrow's plot armor is so thick it allows him to survive being run threw with a sword, shoved off a cliff. and left lying in the freezing cold, all in one fight Through the chest, no less, with a pretty big rear end sword. And he was lying in the cold with no shirt, while bleeding from a massive wound on both sides, that certainly would have impacted his ability to breathe, if the fall itself didn't break his ribs or back.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 06:52
|
|
|
hangedman1984 posted:pfft, the Arrow's plot armor is so thick it allows him to survive being run threw with a sword, shoved off a cliff. and left lying in the freezing cold, all in one fight Is Arrow a show about Grigori Rasputin, or what?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 10:10
|
|
|
Dalael posted:Peggy had to do all this crap behind their back. Its not that she goes off running half-cocked like you said. No, she didn't. I'm pretty sure they would have taken her more seriously if she just told them that she 1) was or could get in contact with Stark and 2) that should could assist them in tracking down Stark's weapons. Instead she said "I don't think Stark is guilty" without a single shred of evidence to back it up, was rightly dismissed and then went off to do her own thing (including, at times, actively sabotaging SSR's investigation). There's a huge difference between the SSR ignoring Peggy because of sexism and the SSR ignoring Peggy because she's not actually providing any helpful intel or input. You'll notice that cripple guy actually brought proof of Peggy's betrayal to his superiors instead of making wild accusations, being told off and then tracking her down on his own.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 10:43
|
|
|
Irish Joe posted:No, she didn't. I'm pretty sure they would have taken her more seriously if she just told them that she 1) was or could get in contact with Stark and 2) that should could assist them in tracking down Stark's weapons. Instead she said "I don't think Stark is guilty" without a single shred of evidence to back it up, was rightly dismissed and then went off to do her own thing (including, at times, actively sabotaging SSR's investigation). There's a huge difference between the SSR ignoring Peggy because of sexism and the SSR ignoring Peggy because she's not actually providing any helpful intel or input. You'll notice that cripple guy actually brought proof of Peggy's betrayal to his superiors instead of making wild accusations, being told off and then tracking her down on his own. The SSR found Stark's inventions in a boat moored for days?weeks? after the heist a short distance from the sewer leading from stark's house after an anonymous call, and conclude that they're one up on stark. They're consistantly putting down peggy, and it's only been in the last couple of episodes that Dooley (head of the SSR New York's office) has started questioning the possibility that stark might not be guilty, often due to information that Peggy has uncovered or due to actions she has taken behind the SSR's back. The most active role they allowed her was collecting the lunch orders. (Dooley discovering that Leviathan is a big bad using information from outside of the investigation has helped here as well) Seems to me that if she'd bought information to them, she would both be ignored and told not to do men's business. It's only since being the only person who knew anything about europe, who was able to organise the Howling Commandoes to help and could decrypt the sekret code that they grudgingly decided to keep her in the loop. Since then they've discovered she's been going behind their backs. Note that only Chad Thompson thought that the internal snatch team wouldn't be able to take her (thus waiting outside the back of the automat). Next episode the commie psychiatrist (possibly along with beta Black Widow) will start killing and stealing stuff from within the SSR, and Peggy will save the day with the help of Dooley/Sousa/Thompson.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 11:17
|
|
|
Despite all her accomplishments, her colleagues thought she spent the war sleeping with Captain America, there is no reason to think that they would take her seriously, when she explained to them that playboy Howard Stark was innocent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 13:24
|
|
|
Again, its not about taking Peggy at her word. When all the evidence in the world points to Stark being guilty, its perfectly justified to go with the evidence over one agent's unsubstantiated personal belief. Even supposing Peggy was right and the only way she could prove she was right was by going off on her own, she still should have come forward the second she had evidence leading to a deeper conspiracy. But she didn't. Instead, she actively worked against and sabotaged SSR's efforts, including, but not limited to, hiding Howard Stark, stealing tech under SSR protection and assaulting several agents while effecting a wrongful escape attempt. Peggy Carter is absolutely, 100%, in the wrong because she is actively making it harder for the good guys (the SSR) to do their job. Yeah, Peggy Carter, rah rah feminism and all that. But putting that aside and looking at just what's on the screen, it becomes very hard to root for her given that she is, essentially, the bad guy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 13:53
|
|
|
Not going to feed the troll. If you think Peggy is the bad guy in this story, you have problems. One of the things I like about Peggy is that she's NOT perfect. Last episode she went after the psychologist way too harshly during the interrogation, for instance. She's flawed, she doesn't always do the exact right thing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 15:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 17:23 |
|
|
Irish Joe posted:But putting that aside and looking at just what's on the screen, it becomes very hard to root for her given that she is, essentially, the bad guy. Nah, it's pretty easy. People root for bad guys all the time. House, Jack Bauer, The "Americans" from The Americans. It's fun.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 16:00
|
|
