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Didn't they make a FFVII cell phone game where you played as the Turks? I don't know if you hosed with the heroes or not during their journey, but I'm sure there's a game where you can be a Turk. Hopefully, it's better than Dirge of Cerberus.
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Feb 9, 2015 02:04
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Mazed posted:In any other story, these guys would be the bumbling miniboss squad that the main villain hired to keep the heroes busy. Thing is, the Turks are COMPETENT. Aside from Elena. Leavemywife posted:Didn't they make a FFVII cell phone game where you played as the Turks? I don't know if you hosed with the heroes or not during their journey, but I'm sure there's a game where you can be a Turk.
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Feb 9, 2015 02:58
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Silegna posted:It's called Before Crisis, and the main antagonists are the original AVALANCHE. I've read up on it, it's awesome. Wait if that's Before Crisis, then what was Crisis Core?
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Feb 9, 2015 11:35
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The_Frag_Man posted:Wait if that's Before Crisis, then what was Crisis Core? Crisis Core was the PSP title, where you play as Zack Fair, when he joins SOLDIER and meets Aeris and stuff. It's not a bad game, but does get a touch repetitive here and there.
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Feb 9, 2015 15:17
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Mikl posted:RIP Laguna.  One-shotting Esthar soldiers with ease.... OH WELL BETTER JUMP OFF A CLIFF. I really dislike narrative battles like this that make no Goddamn sense, like the Fabul sequence from FFIV.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:47
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Fabul's scene makes more sense than this though: sure you've got a team that can take out the encounters coming at you with ease but that's all you have against an army with air support. The battles themselves are nothing special: the game expects you to do the same thing you've been doing for everything. (Sans the Kain fight.) It's a form of story and gameplay integration (the Mt. Hobbes sequence is the best case in the game.) To put it another way: Your characters are a single dam against a tidal wave. Sure you could hold out indefinitely but your surroundings won't and then you'll just end up surrounded with no where to go. Besides fighting the same easy fights over and over again would get boring and the narrative needs to move on. The same thing happens here: that Esthar soldier pulls out a new move and reduces your pals to 1hp at the end of the fight, giving a reason for why the two of them are really out of it in the scene afterwards while Laguna's still ready and raring to go. He knows that if more of those dudes show up the same things going to happen to him (plus Ward and Kiros are kinda dying) thus the cause to escape. I admit it's clunky but it's way better than most RPG's where you can win a fight and get taken out by a cutscene instead. In the Fabul case you're winning fights but losing the war. Here the battle script includes the cheap attack in it and then ends immediately afterward so while you win it's more of a phyrric victory (and caused me to sweat out against further Esthar Soldiers in the game, dreading that they'd break that out again.)
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Feb 12, 2015 00:33
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Bregor posted:
I liked at the very beginning of Suikoden II, where your protagonists get backed up to a cliff and are under attack by enemy soldiers. The game tells you to jump off a cliff to get away, but you can dick around as long as you want killing enemies. If you win over 108 (!!) battles, you even get an easter egg.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:40
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In FF2 there's a bit at the start of the game where you run from/get your poo poo wrecked by Imperial soldiers. Ten minutes after the start of the game, you're going into the imperial capital and if you pick a fight with any of them they will ruin your poo poo even outside of a plot battle..
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Feb 12, 2015 00:50
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The scene works better if you don't do all the mucking around with the environment that we saw, because then there are more soldiers at the end (which I think was mentioned above). They probably should've had a big fight anyway, but this is hardly the worst thing FF8 does.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:01
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Concordat posted:In FF2 there's a bit at the start of the game where you run from/get your poo poo wrecked by Imperial soldiers. Ten minutes after the start of the game, you're going into the imperial capital and if you pick a fight with any of them they will ruin your poo poo even outside of a plot battle.. And if you're young and have no idea where to go because taking one extra step away from the wall puts you back in the world map, you can fight them till you win and end up obscenely powerful for the next three dungeons.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:34
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EponymousMrYar posted:Fabul's scene makes more sense than this though: sure you've got a team that can take out the encounters coming at you with ease but that's all you have against an army with air support. The battles themselves are nothing special: the game expects you to do the same thing you've been doing for everything. (Sans the Kain fight.) It's a form of story and gameplay integration (the Mt. Hobbes sequence is the best case in the game.) Yeah, I get wanting to move inside and out of range of the Red Wings. But the last few retreats are seriously just, "Oh no! Random mooks! Let's lead them right to the crystal!" I felt like the attack on Cleyra, for example, was a much better event that tried something like this. Anyway, don't mean to harp on this too much. The Laguna buffoonery is a minor part of the story so far.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:30
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I'll probably go back to get the other fights, because the longer sequence does better capture the feeling of "there are a whole lot of Esthar soldiers and the party's standing on the edge of a cliff," which means I honestly should have shown it. For the record, though, that dialogue is pretty casual up until the last guy pulls out Soul Crush and fucks your day right up.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:48
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I hate this scene as-presented. You have no idea what's going on and for some reason the translation here (and only here) is exceptionally bad. Like, FF7-level bad. Laguna's stupid "say common phrases wrong" is a specific type of humor in Japan but not really something we do in English. It makes the dialog hard to follow and that's on top of the fact that the characters are in a situation that's confusing to the player (and the characters viewing this dream sequence) by design. If they'd spent less time on the doesn't-quite-work humor and more time time discussing how they wound up where they are and why, it would at least ground the scene a little. IMO while this section is very pretty and has cool music, it's the first low point in the game. Stuff perks right back up after this, but it's a definite sign of things to come.
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Feb 12, 2015 08:26
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Molly Millions posted:I hate this scene as-presented. You have no idea what's going on and for some reason the translation here (and only here) is exceptionally bad. Like, FF7-level bad. Laguna's stupid "say common phrases wrong" is a specific type of humor in Japan but not really something we do in English. It makes the dialog hard to follow and that's on top of the fact that the characters are in a situation that's confusing to the player (and the characters viewing this dream sequence) by design. The pity being it's sorta essential for lots of other stuff later in the game. Now that it's actually been said, yeah, this is pretty terrible for the game. I've probably been giving too much credit to other things for derailing FFVIII and not enough to this sequence not doing it's job properly.
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Feb 12, 2015 08:38
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You know, I didn't really like this sequence either...but it wasn't because of Laguna butchering expressions. In fact, that was actually one of my favorite parts! Some people take it as bad translation, but I personally took it as him just being a huge goof-ball, who thinks he's being clever. Like, he expects to come across as really wise, but instead, he ends up just baffling Kiros and Ward, which frustrates him in turn...I dunno, I thought it was funny. Though, then again, I've been in Laguna's situation a few times before as far as that went, so... That said though, this sequence is still really frustrating for me, not just because of how random, illogical, and out-of-place the whole thing is, but also for the fact that Zell and Selphie start off with only 1 HP once you got back
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Feb 12, 2015 10:59
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Fionordequester posted:That said though, this sequence is still really frustrating for me, not just because of how random, illogical, and out-of-place the whole thing is, but also for the fact that Zell and Selphie start off with only 1 HP once you got back
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Feb 12, 2015 15:35
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Fionordequester posted:You know, I didn't really like this sequence either...but it wasn't because of Laguna butchering expressions. In fact, that was actually one of my favorite parts! Some people take it as bad translation, but I personally took it as him just being a huge goof-ball, who thinks he's being clever. Like, he expects to come across as really wise, but instead, he ends up just baffling Kiros and Ward, which frustrates him in turn...I dunno, I thought it was funny. The intent there is good. the issue is that it's a questionable localization. While they clearly tried to create some english expressions that were intelligible to the situation, that particular quirk doesn't come across as well as it should to an english audience. It's an effective enough translation, but if we take the goal of localization as "does not draw attention to the fact any translation has occurred at all" then it's failed that. It's a very Japanese quirk even if the expressions used are english language ones.
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Feb 12, 2015 20:16
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Fionordequester posted:That said though, this sequence is still really frustrating for me, not just because of how random, illogical, and out-of-place the whole thing is, but also for the fact that Zell and Selphie start off with only 1 HP once you got back when you die in the dream world, you die in real life CmdrKing posted:The intent there is good. the issue is that it's a questionable localization. While they clearly tried to create some english expressions that were intelligible to the situation, that particular quirk doesn't come across as well as it should to an english audience. It's an effective enough translation, but if we take the goal of localization as "does not draw attention to the fact any translation has occurred at all" then it's failed that. It's a very Japanese quirk even if the expressions used are english language ones. I didn't think "man, someone effed up this translation" when I played this game. like Fionordequester, I thought "Laguna is a goofball who tried to sound wise and misremembered a phrase". so 
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Feb 12, 2015 20:28
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I agree more or less, but I think that's the complaint. I remember thinking Laguna's lines here were kinda weird, but I eventually just put it down to him being a weird guy.
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Feb 12, 2015 20:34
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CmdrKing posted:The intent there is good. the issue is that it's a questionable localization. While they clearly tried to create some english expressions that were intelligible to the situation, that particular quirk doesn't come across as well as it should to an english audience. It's an effective enough translation, but if we take the goal of localization as "does not draw attention to the fact any translation has occurred at all" then it's failed that. It's a very Japanese quirk even if the expressions used are english language ones. Maybe it looks funky if you know that that's a thing in Japan, but for those of who didn't, it's not that bad. Keep in mind that this game came out in 1999/2000, when the internet had yet to disseminate any knowledge of Japanese culture or linguistic conventions to the average gamer.
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Feb 12, 2015 22:26
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Yeah I'd say it's actually a good localization no matter what you know about anything. Messing up sayings is taken the same way in english as it is in japanese, they just substituted in english expressions thank god (a bad localization wouldn't have recognized the expressions and instead did poor direct translations); it's not only a japanese thing and plenty of western sitcoms have had characters that do it, especially stuff from around when the game released. This is a thing in literally every language. I'd have to see how badly he messed up the japanese equivalents to see why they went with pig instead of, say, chicken for that one but if they were wide misses I could see it.
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Feb 13, 2015 08:22
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I'm fine with "down to one HP" fight endings, but only when they're handed out by either an exceptionally strong opponent (Beatrix and several other bosses in FFIX) or by some sort of environmental/plot hazard-catastrophe. Having the last random guy you fight suddenly incapacitate two of your otherwise fairly invulnerable party members with a move you never see again is a bizarre choice. Some sort of explosion forcing Laguna's crew to jump (or wounding two of them and leading to a similar scene), or simply being surrounded and forced to jump to escape the enemy army (This is a little cheesy if you've been stomping the enemy encounters so far, but it's the sort of thing audiences accept without much question in order to move the story forward) would make a little more sense, especially considering how awkward the shift in pacing is. This seems like the sort of scene where FF7 or FF9 would've thrown in a short, dramatic cutscene of Laguna, Kiros, and Ward jumping/falling off the cliff (I really like the backdrop for that scene, though). I don't think I've ever had a strong opinion one way or the other about FF8, except for a few sequences I liked. I beat it once a long time ago, so I don't remember a lot about how the story progresses. I'm enjoying experiencing the story again, and I like the neutral tone you're using for the LP, Cool Ghost.
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Feb 13, 2015 08:58
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Yeah, it's really nice to have somebody presenting the game without telling us how much it sucks. It really changes the LP experience in a good way.
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Feb 13, 2015 09:06
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General Specific posted:Some sort of explosion forcing Laguna's crew to jump (or wounding two of them and leading to a similar scene), or simply being surrounded and forced to jump to escape the enemy army (This is a little cheesy if you've been stomping the enemy encounters so far, but it's the sort of thing audiences accept without much question in order to move the story forward) would make a little more sense, especially considering how awkward the shift in pacing is. Come to think of it, didn't we experience something similar with Wedge or Biggs (I forget which, the red one!) sending the robot spider after our heroes after we beat him? It would create kind of a fun similarity if Laguna's group also got chumped by something activated after you beat the mook enemy, even if it's something as mundane as 'he hit the detonator for a bomb and you explode a lot'...
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Feb 13, 2015 09:27
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ultrafilter posted:Yeah, it's really nice to have somebody presenting the game without telling us how much it sucks. It really changes the LP experience in a good way. I totally agree. I know I keep saying how crazy and not thought through the plot becomes but Cool Ghost's LP style is great and a really refreshing approach to the game. Especially with his writing of Rinoa after the President was kidnapped in Timber, though I'm looking forward to how he writes her actions with her dad as all I can ever see is an annoying spoilt brat.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:03
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Weavered posted:I totally agree. I know I keep saying how crazy and not thought through the plot becomes but Cool Ghost's LP style is great and a really refreshing approach to the game. Especially with his writing of Rinoa after the President was kidnapped in Timber, (REDACTED) You might want to edit that out, Cool Ghost specifically asked for no spoilers in the OP.
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Feb 13, 2015 20:34
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Despite my personal feelings on this game, like people have said before me, I enjoy having a LP point of view where it's not being played by someone constantly ripping on it for how it sucks, the dialog is stupid, and that the characters all need to die in a fire. I really like your style, Cool Ghost, and I think this LP is super-great.
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Feb 13, 2015 20:57
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Leavemywife posted:Despite my personal feelings on this game, like people have said before me, I enjoy having a LP point of view where it's not being played by someone constantly ripping on it for how it sucks, the dialog is stupid, and that the characters all need to die in a fire. Ditto, I know I've said I dislike the plot of the game and Rinoa in general, but I will digress that they're just my opinions. I have no problem with people liking them and I like the LP style. So yes, carry on 
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Feb 13, 2015 23:25
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General Specific posted:I'm fine with "down to one HP" fight endings, but only when they're handed out by either an exceptionally strong opponent (Beatrix and several other bosses in FFIX) or by some sort of environmental/plot hazard-catastrophe. Having the last random guy you fight suddenly incapacitate two of your otherwise fairly invulnerable party members with a move you never see again is a bizarre choice. Some sort of explosion forcing Laguna's crew to jump (or wounding two of them and leading to a similar scene), or simply being surrounded and forced to jump to escape the enemy army (This is a little cheesy if you've been stomping the enemy encounters so far, but it's the sort of thing audiences accept without much question in order to move the story forward) would make a little more sense, especially considering how awkward the shift in pacing is. The scene works a bit better if you don't do any of the stuff in the cave, and you fight a bunch of waves of dudes. Not a whole lot better, but a tiny bit since it seems like they might be getting worn down from all the fighting then that one dude just goes nuts with a suicide strike or whatever. But like the LP demonstrates, if you know what you're doing at all then it just falls apart and becomes one random guy wrecking to full HP guys because of reasons. But yeah I'm really enjoying the LP. I'm one of those weirdos who likes this game despite its flaws so it's kind of nice to see an LP of it that isn't just constantly making GBS threads on it. Also the scene analysis is nice, I never realized all the animation details the game had until Cool Ghost pointed a lot of them out.
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Feb 14, 2015 00:19
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I think the scene works better if you ignore their stats and Junctionings (which they realistically wouldn't have, given they don't seem to be SEEDs so wouldn't have access to GFs) and just imagine Laguna and co are just three ordinary Galbadia army goons.
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Feb 14, 2015 00:26
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I did something sort of like that when I was really dumb about the game. Squall got all the GF's aside from Quetz and Shiva who went the other two members and I had no idea what were good GF abilities so I left them on defaults and went up that path  They were all still able to kill the Esthar soldiers with their normal attacks... Which were their most damaging options.
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Feb 14, 2015 00:35
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Part Twenty-Three: Another Garden Coming back from Laguna's adventures, we can see Zell and Rinoa just sort of milling about while everyone's unconscious.  Of course, Zell's already read in on the Laguna situation.  : Sir Laguna's in BIG TROUBLE! I hope he'll be ok...!!! : Doesn't seem like this is the first time for you all. What is this?Quistis has an important question.   : We'll just be wasting our time trying to figure it out. Let's keep going.Quistis probably isn't a huge fan of this answer, but he's not wrong. We have no leads, and it's not really hurting us, so the only option is to sit on it.  : Yeah, let's go! I think we're almost there. One thing to do before we leave, though.  : I think I may have said too much. I'm sorry. Of course, Squall just blows Rinoa off.  Switching gears, it's very important that Quistis and Selphie still only have 1 HP.  Good thing I have all these Potions, eh?  Now that we're through the forest, you can see Galbadia Garden is right there.  Of course, we're not going to head straight to the objective. We have to play in the forest first.  You see, I'm looking for one specific encounter. It is not this one.  It's also not this one.  The Ochu does drop Magic Stones, though, which are the missing link between M-Stone Pieces and Wizards Stones. I'll be using these ones to make Cura spells for healing.  Booyakaga also learns Time Mag-RF, which is a pretty important ability once you're able to junction spells to Speed.  I also set him up to learn Enc-None, which is a handy ability when you just want to run between cutscenes. Low-level games make big use of this, naturally.  This encounter is also also not the one I'm looking for. See, I'm missing a crucial but very stupid step in the process.  Wendigos are semi-useful, though, because they drop Steel Pipes, which are a popular upgrade material.  Oh, and Mufasa learned Str Bonus.  Since they're based on gaining levels, the Bonus abilities (spoiler: there's one for all the major stats) are most useful when equipped at low levels, but they're locked up behind the stat+X% abilities, so you usually don't get them until they're past their peak.  Now, back to that encounter I was looking for: to find it, it is critical that you are touching the canyon wall.  As long as you're touching the wall while you're in the forest, you can find these guys: Grendels. They're a fairly tough enemy (in fact, monsters are generally tougher than human enemies) that carries an important item when they're under level 20.  Look how happy Selphie is that I finally found one.  Also look at how I can't break my low-level game habits and insist upon defeating monsters by using Card.  This is the important item that Grendels can drop. Dragon Fangs are one of the materials for making Squall's ultimate weapon; you need four, and you can get them from Grendels now or by fighting other, tougher enemies later.  Grendels also have Double, you know, if you have nothing better to do.  While we're in battle, though, I might as well tell you about Quistis's Limit Break. It's Blue Magic.  Essentially, by feeding Quistis the right items, she learns various skills that enemies also use. You can get these items by killing certain enemies, or (more easily) by refining certain cards. There's also one that you can only get by refining a certain item when Siren is level 100.  Since I'm just trying to weaken this Grendel so Selphie can Card it, I decided to go with Aqua Breath.  Aqua Breath involves Quistis shooting a bunch of water out of her abs to damage enemies. She doesn't even open her mouth. Come on, Quistis.  And that's the story of how I ended up with four Dragon Fangs. Scintillating, no?  So, onward to Galbadia Garden.   The track titles on the soundtrack all have the word written as GARDEN in all-caps, but it's never that way during the game itself. Upon entering, there's an FMV.   Apparently, Galbaia Garden trains jetpack soldiers. All SeeD gets is magic monsters that live in their brains. This is horseshit.  Also, the design of Galbadia Garden makes me think of a circus tent.   Hey, jetpack shitheads, you're blocking the sidewalk.  PS, welcome to another Garden update where I chat with everyone I find.   Jetpack soldiers will not chat, instead electing to fly away when you talk to them.  Galbadia Garden is a pretty nice-looking place.     I have nothing to add to this conversation, and certainly nothing to add to Rinoa giggling at Squall. : Could you leave this one up to me? I've been here several times, and I know the headmaster pretty well.Are you sure you should be talking to headmasters right now, Quisits? Seems like that hasn't gone well recently.  : I'll go and explain our situation.Hey, you're an adult.  With Quistis heading off, we need to make a new party.  Since this only really affects once scene and the trigger is Zell not being in the party, this is how we're setting up.   Well, see ya, Zell.  Pretty nice atrium.  In the nice atrium, we also get this nice announcement. While we're in Galbadia Garden, this will show up every time you change screens.  This cool beam of light contains a Haste draw point. Aside from refining, this is the earliest you can get the spell.  Haste, which makes the ATB gauge fill faster, is (naturally) great as a Speed junction, but it's pretty handy as a regular spell too, especially if you're not just wrecking everything by spamming Limit Breaks all the time.  This draw point also reminds me that, for whatever reason, Quake is considered Time Magic for refining purposes.  Now, let's take a look around Galbadia Garden.  Squall would never interrupt someone's exam, because it would be bad manners.   He will, however, give a lecture to an empty room.  Unfortunately, we can't fully explore Galbadia Garden.  Of course, we'll do what we can.  Reading Girl: Oh gosh. I can't put this down. I wonder what she's reading. Sounds good.  Hmm...  This guy just doesn't want to talk to Squall.   Inside this classroom, we can learn about which types of cards are best. Too bad for these nerds, the menu pre-sorts them for us.  Of course, you can play cards with all three of them.  More importantly, we can go for a skate.  Wait, no, everything is poo poo and life blows.  We can, uh, hang out in the locker room. That's also good.  Life is a handy spell that can replace Phoenix Downs (for whatever reason, you cannot refine Life from Phoenix Downs).  Unfortunately, it's about as hard to refine Life as it is to refine the better version, Full-Life, so it's not the winningest spell in the book.  Jesus, somebody's serious about hockey.  No poo poo you're worried, that's extremely hosed up.  Well, you have fun with that.  I'm just going to stare longingly at figure-skating practice.  No, I want to skate.  At this point, we've mostly exhausted our options for exploring.  All of the bouncer guys in the Garden will tell you where the reception room is, by the way.  The game is very insistent that you go there.  We are, instead, going to check out this lobby.  It's a good lobby, as far as I'm concerned.  Galbadia Garden has a shitload of sports facilities. Balamb has, like, none.  Shell is okay. It's the magical damage counterpart of Protect. I think Selphie drew seven.   This is the last hallway on Galbadia Garden's ground floor.  Let's head upstairs, I suppose.  That door right there is the reception room we're supposed to head to.   This is interesting. Cid was pretty shifty back at Garden, I could believe he's not doing everything on the up-and-up.  The second floor of the atrium doesn't really have anything going on.   There is another chance for Squall to make one of his classic lectures to empty rooms, though.  Oh, and we can find out that Galbadia Garden keeps their elevators under lock and key. We never get to have any fun.  Being as we're in a school, let's learn something.   We already knew the first part, but that second part is interesting. It also explains why it wasn't the world's number one bad idea to come here.   With everything else done, let's get received, I guess. Cool Ghost fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 22:25
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I never knew about that conversation with the hockey guy in the locker room. poo poo's hosed up.
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Feb 14, 2015 22:56
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The hockey room guy also plays with Trabia's rules, since he's an exchange student. This is a great opportunity to mangle around with its rules since Trabia has an annoying card rule setup and you have a handy source of Galbadia's rules right there.
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Feb 14, 2015 23:05
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Cool Ghost posted:
I think there was some text earlier saying that if things went wrong, the SeeDs should head to the nearest garden. It might've been in the data dump from the classroom terminal.
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Feb 14, 2015 23:42
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ultrafilter posted:I think there was some text earlier saying that if things went wrong, the SeeDs should head to the nearest garden. It might've been in the data dump from the classroom terminal. Yes, but there's now enough international tension between Balamb and Galbadia to probably be considered a war. It's like saying "If your home country ever declares war on the country where you happen to be at the time, a smart place to go would be their army training facility." However, if the Gardens are neutral, that doesn't apply.
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Feb 14, 2015 23:56
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ultrafilter posted:I think there was some text earlier saying that if things went wrong, the SeeDs should head to the nearest garden. It might've been in the data dump from the classroom terminal. It was in the regulations they went over in Timber before leaving, but it didn't really say whether the Gardens were affiliated with the regional/state government, and considering whom they pissed off, it might not have been the greatest idea if they were.
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Feb 14, 2015 23:59
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I get that it's 100% a gameplay thing, but you'd think Zell would be a little concerned when two of his companions wake up and all of a sudden they're holding they're guts inside with their hands.
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Feb 15, 2015 00:03
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Great LP so far. For some reason a lot of the FFs after 7 didn't leave much of an impression on me and I haven't played them since their release, so it's fun to refresh my memory and revisit them. But wait... Kristen Schaal, what're you doing here?! Frogisis fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Feb 15, 2015 |
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Feb 15, 2015 00:42
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Haha, I completely forgot about the hockey rink!
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Feb 15, 2015 00:48
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