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Fat Turkey posted:I can understand why, in a game that didn't cost anything to play, someone might pay $30 so that their hero looks noticeably different and cooler to in some ways support a game that is constantly being updated that they have put thousands of hours into. People like having things that look better than other peoples and 4 figure hours are spent in the game, people get really into their MOBAs. Yeah I guess I can understand the psychology behind it, but to me personally I find paying real money for anything digital is just alien. It doesn't cost anything to send me a copy of whatever digital content they have or flip some switch on their server to make my character shiny, so why am I paying? It feels more like extortion than actually buying something. A premium boardgame I can understand quite easily. Even if I personally wouldn't want a wooden TtR I would love a nice premium antique chess set. A hand carved wooden chess set takes hours of some persons life to make, and material that cost actual money. I would have no problem paying good money for a hand made chess set, knowing there is some actual reason behind the price beyond "how much we can charge for maximum profit".
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Feb 13, 2015 13:28
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Pretty Princess Dress Up is pretty important meta game in most online games. Looking good/obnoxious while owning nerds is reward within itself.
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Feb 13, 2015 13:33
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Yeah, the digital stuff aside (and I agree with you somewhat on it, certainly when it comes to big spending), focusing on the board games alone, deluxe editions of games do seem cool. Like the Dungeon Lords set, and cool looking chess sets, so maybe there is some contradiction. Maybe it's just TtR, didn't it have it's own 10th anniversary swanky edition? Fair play to anyone who makes and sells the stuff, and anyone who buys it, I'm not judging what people spend their money on, I guess it took me by surprise, is all. I will take this on a related tangent then. I couldn't find a model TK foam board insert so I had to design my own. Would that be of interest to anyone here, or has anyone else made their own one? I've already made the base layer to hold the board and it fits pretty snug.
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Feb 13, 2015 14:09
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I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread for it but i'm looking for some casual, newbie friendly games to play in Vassal with some friends. We tried betrayal at house on the hill and shadows over camelot, it was good fun. Are there any recommended games like these that run decently in Vassal?
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Feb 13, 2015 14:52
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Mans posted:I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread for it but i'm looking for some casual, newbie friendly games to play in Vassal with some friends. We tried betrayal at house on the hill and shadows over camelot, it was good fun. Are there any recommended games like these that run decently in Vassal? If your friends are up for learning something a bit more complex, Battlestar Galactica is well-regarded.
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Feb 13, 2015 15:16
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Rutibex posted:Yeah I guess I can understand the psychology behind it, but to me personally I find paying real money for anything digital is just alien. It doesn't cost anything to send me a copy of whatever digital content they have or flip some switch on their server to make my character shiny, so why am I paying? It feels more like extortion than actually buying something. Because both the server and the person flipping the switch cost money. As does the programmer who spent many hours of their life punching out the code to make those characters shiny (not to mention coding the goddamn game itself), and they likely spent years of their life learning how to code so that they could get paid to do that. Oh, and the software and hardware to do all that? All of that is 'material that cost actual money'. And without revenue, none of those things exist. So please drop the narrative that video game companies are all somehow guilty of racketeering (yeah, some certainly are greedy fuckers, just like in every other industry, including the 'hand-made crafts' trade).
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Feb 13, 2015 16:08
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Trynant posted:You're honestly the first person to voice this particular complaint except for possibly the bolded part. Archipelago can suffer from group think fatigue because the whole game hinges on player dynamics (even if there's a lot of meat beyond that). It is odd that your citizens feel like a buffer since the domestic crises on large populations drain far more resources than a small population--far more than I expected exploration resource boosts to help. Well, both resource gathering and domestic crises grow more or less linearly with resource growth. All the other rebellion causes (export crises, taxation, barbarian, etc) only move the tracker by some constant amount. quote:That being said, if you want an example of early-game big money port + double I mean, we will eventually explore other sources of revenue. But, there isn't really much of a race to money, since the bottleneck scarcity is stone. Also, high population increases not only taxation income and resource gathering, but available actions as well. That means, the earlier you get more people, the earlier you have more flexibility. quote:In addition the War & Peace expansion really adds some truly game-changing cards. Most of the evolution cards in that expansion are on par in effect with the likes of Barbarian, Assassin, or Spy. Thanks, I'll check it out. quote:I will say that I play Archipelago with wildly different groups and get wildly different games; I'm curious what would be your experience with a different group of players.... Well, when I started, other people had different strategies. And I don't play with a completely stable group of people. However, it seems that we always settle in a Nash equilibrium with high early populations and stone hoarding.
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Feb 13, 2015 16:12
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Well, it took me all night and a fair chunk of this morning, but I finally finished a quick and dirty TTS set for the Print-n-Play of Final Attack! The pawns are drive keys, since they're automatically uprighted by TTS when you pick them up, and bounce less when dropped on cards than the larger pawns do. I also included all the 'publicly available' Robeast images, at least for my own personal use. Gotta say, I like how it looks.
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Feb 13, 2015 16:44
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Heres a random one: What are the best micro type games that can be played in a bar/pub/public setting? Such as Love Letter and Timeline.
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Feb 13, 2015 16:54
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ChiTownEddie posted:Heres a random one: Skull, Love Letter
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Feb 13, 2015 16:55
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Madmarker posted:Skull, Love Letter Coup, Ghost Blitz, Hanabi
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Feb 13, 2015 17:00
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ChiTownEddie posted:Heres a random one: Coup, and I have a copy of Ninja Dice in my bag which I've never played, but it's water/spill-proof which seems important for pub gaming. Oh and Coinage in my wallet for the same reason.
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Feb 13, 2015 17:02
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No Thanks! is a really fun bar game.
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Feb 13, 2015 17:05
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Paper Kaiju posted:Because both the server and the person flipping the switch cost money. As does the programmer who spent many hours of their life punching out the code to make those characters shiny (not to mention coding the goddamn game itself), and they likely spent years of their life learning how to code so that they could get paid to do that. Oh, and the software and hardware to do all that? All of that is 'material that cost actual money'. And without revenue, none of those things exist. So please drop the narrative that video game companies are all somehow guilty of racketeering (yeah, some certainly are greedy fuckers, just like in every other industry, including the 'hand-made crafts' trade). TL/DR: I consider intellectual property to be immoral, not so making and selling physical things. ChiTownEddie posted:Heres a random one: Liars Dice is a very good pub game, as well as Dominoes. You can spill beer on dice and Dominoes without wrecking them, an important property. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar%27s_dice
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Feb 13, 2015 17:30
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I should look into dice games. I just bought some various colored dice to use in LOTR LCG (in place of tokens) but I have so many more than I need haha. Thanks for the suggestions guys! Definitely grabbing Skull 
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Feb 13, 2015 17:34
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Getting a chance to play both El Grande and Tigris & Euphrates for the first time Sunday kind of psyched
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Feb 13, 2015 17:54
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Hive Pocket Edition is another. I'm getting the deluxe Hanabi with the tiles in the hopes that it can be another grime proof game while also letting me relax my stupid broken programmer wrists
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Feb 13, 2015 17:57
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Rutibex posted:I could argue this for pages and pages and get a lot more philosophical on this issue. I won't because this is the board game thread and not D&D. I have the feeling we would not see eye to eye. Board game designs are intellectual property, and very rarely is the designer also the person physically manufacturing copies of the game. Are you seriously suggesting that it is immoral for board game designers to make money of their work?
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Feb 13, 2015 18:00
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Oh another good set of pocket games: Banannagrams, Appletters, Pairsinpears, and Zip-It. Kind of like scrabble in a pocket sized banana bag: http://www.amazon.com/Bananagrams-BAN001/dp/1932188126/ http://www.amazon.com/Bananagrams-APP001-Appletters/dp/B002P584A6 http://www.amazon.com/Bananagrams-PIP001-Pairsinpears/dp/B002PDM288/ http://www.amazon.com/Bananagrams-ZIP001-Zip-It/dp/B0043RF43Y/  Paper Kaiju posted:Board game designs are intellectual property, and very rarely is the designer also the person physically manufacturing copies of the game. Are you seriously suggesting that it is immoral for board game designers to make money of their work? Nope, I think designers should be paid using some other method! I like people being paid for doing work; I don't like people being paid for owning rights to things. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 18:02
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Talisman is a good choice for Rutibex because no one would argue that the game sells because of its design. edit: yeah bananagrams is a cool game.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:02
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Rutibex posted:
Intellectual property is the only moral property. All physical goods are derived from material which was stolen from all mankind before one person said "this is mine".
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Feb 13, 2015 18:04
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Can we not? I get where everyone's coming from, but still, can we not?
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Feb 13, 2015 18:12
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Edit: Contents of post deleted becauseLord Frisk posted:Can we not? I get where everyone's coming from, but still, can we not? You are right, Rubitex is going to continue to be Rubitex. Paper Kaiju fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 18:26
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Played Orleans yesterday. Definitely enjoyable, an interesting combination of worker placement and Eminent Domain's 'take this action to gain more of these cards' deckbuilding style (albeit the cards are tokens and the deck is a bag). In general I thought it was great but I think the balance of the buildings is questionable. I definitely made some bad decisions, and knowing what to automate is absolutely vital. Overall, would play again, but I'm not overly convinced of the replay value.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:29
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Rutibex posted:Nope, I think designers should be paid using some other method! I like people being paid for doing work; I don't like people being paid for owning rights to things. Thank you for paying  to share this opinion with us.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:37
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thespaceinvader posted:Played Orleans yesterday. Definitely enjoyable, an interesting combination of worker placement and Eminent Domain's 'take this action to gain more of these cards' deckbuilding style (albeit the cards are tokens and the deck is a bag). In general I thought it was great but I think the balance of the buildings is questionable. I definitely made some bad decisions, and knowing what to automate is absolutely vital. Overall, would play again, but I'm not overly convinced of the replay value. how would you compare it to Eminent Domain overall? Definitely not Apples to Apples, but given that you've played both, which one would you keep if you could only keep one?
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Feb 13, 2015 18:55
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fozzy fosbourne posted:how would you compare it to Eminent Domain overall? Definitely not Apples to Apples, but given that you've played both, which one would you keep if you could only keep one? I don't think Apples To Apples is similar to EITHER game!
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Feb 13, 2015 19:03
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thespaceinvader posted:Played Orleans yesterday. Definitely enjoyable, an interesting combination of worker placement and Eminent Domain's 'take this action to gain more of these cards' deckbuilding style (albeit the cards are tokens and the deck is a bag). In general I thought it was great but I think the balance of the buildings is questionable. I definitely made some bad decisions, and knowing what to automate is absolutely vital. Overall, would play again, but I'm not overly convinced of the replay value. Yep it ran out of steam for us, selling it at the Con this weekend. It's simply not well balanced.
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Feb 13, 2015 19:29
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Lorini posted:Yep it ran out of steam for us, selling it at the Con this weekend. It's simply not well balanced. That's disappointing. I Kickstarted the deluxe edition with fancy metal and wooden components. Won't even get to play it for months.
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Feb 13, 2015 21:23
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Mega bummer, as I am also quite excited for it. Was it a general lack of re-playability? Strategies dried up quickly? Something fundamentally broken? Oh, and how long did it take to "run out of steam" for you?
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Feb 13, 2015 21:32
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I am also sad about this but I guess kickstarters tend to at least command high prices as resale.
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Feb 13, 2015 21:35
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ChiTownEddie posted:Mega bummer, as I am also quite excited for it. About the sixth play or so we realized that some of the choices were simply better at the start of the game, and those choices led to the end of the game being a lot easier for players who made them then for players who didn't. Basically if you take the little tech wheels early, and then get some knights, you will be ahead of those who made other choices as the game goes on. This is because with the little wheels, you need less to get stuff, and with the knights you get more stuff than those without. It simply wasn't balanced for us. I know Jedit will disagree as he loves the game, but we got slaughtered by players who used this strategy every time.
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Feb 13, 2015 21:43
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Lorini posted:Yep it ran out of steam for us, selling it at the Con this weekend. It's simply not well balanced. I'm kinda surprised you're so excited to play Argent, since I imagine that the game can get degenerately broken with the combination of...everything. I didn't notice anything particularly broken on the first play (people were gravitating a lot towards the Planar spells since they poo poo out your workers faster and that tends to be the instinct in a worker placement game), but I wouldn't be surprised if someone found some runaway combination of spells to abuse. Of course, that would be a game to game variable since it's not guaranteed that those combinations will come out/come out quickly enough to be useful. I still really like the game though, despite all its flaws.
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Feb 13, 2015 21:47
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Lorini posted:About the sixth play or so we realized that some of the choices were simply better at the start of the game, and those choices led to the end of the game being a lot easier for players who made them then for players who didn't. Basically if you take the little tech wheels early, and then get some knights, you will be ahead of those who made other choices as the game goes on. This is because with the little wheels, you need less to get stuff, and with the knights you get more stuff than those without. It simply wasn't balanced for us. I know Jedit will disagree as he loves the game, but we got slaughtered by players who used this strategy every time. It's definitely not balanced in the way that a good Feld is balanced - some choices are almost always better than others (taking knights to draw more characters every turn and explore the map, taking scholars and the right buildings to improve on the development track). It doesn't help that the buildings are all available every game (oh hey look I get to build a building, oh hey look I took the Library, surprise surprise). The only random elements are the characters that get drawn (easily mitigated by sending useless extra dudes away to work on the projects) and the sequence of events (which, apart from the plague, are pretty irrelevant in our experience). I think if goods had been worth a little more (maybe 2-3-4-5-6) and development points weren't curved so sharply (a 6x modifier can be huge) there would have been more viable strategies to explore. It'll be interesting to see what Stockhausen has planned for further expansions - maybe it'll be a lessons learned kind of thing that will balance the game a bit more. Still fun to play for now, but I'd choose games like Tzolk'in (which I'm terrible at) or Macao over it any day of the week.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:05
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^^ DP spam gets worse the more people who go for it, as there aren't enough Scholars for everyone to get five and if everyone wants 2x or Monks some people won't even get four. Getting to 6x also takes a lot of work - if memory serves you need to get 10 DPs from actions even if you get five Scholars - and the first person to get there has a massive advantage as they'll usually have two extra Citizens. If you're behind, or the Scholars are split, it's much more efficient to get up to 4x or 5x and spam Hospital.Lorini posted:About the sixth play or so we realized that some of the choices were simply better at the start of the game, and those choices led to the end of the game being a lot easier for players who made them then for players who didn't. Basically if you take the little tech wheels early, and then get some knights, you will be ahead of those who made other choices as the game goes on. This is because with the little wheels, you need less to get stuff, and with the knights you get more stuff than those without. It simply wasn't balanced for us. I know Jedit will disagree as he loves the game, but we got slaughtered by players who used this strategy every time. I would agree that buying a couple of Craftsmen and Knights early on is important, to cover key slots and increase your draws. It's a good way to spend the first few turns until you've seen what events came out because it's a start that lets you easily slip into any of the major strategies. However, going full tech is not a great strategy and you don't need to rush for all the Knights either. I never go above 7 draws and have had success with strategies involving Farmer/Trader goods generation, cash buildings and culling, but I've also been run very close by Trade Post/DP spam and goods collection. In short: there is a best standard opening game in Orleans, but what's important to me is that there isn't a best standard end game. Jedit fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 22:18
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GrandpaPants posted:I'm kinda surprised you're so excited to play Argent, since I imagine that the game can get degenerately broken with the combination of...everything. I didn't notice anything particularly broken on the first play (people were gravitating a lot towards the Planar spells since they poo poo out your workers faster and that tends to be the instinct in a worker placement game), but I wouldn't be surprised if someone found some runaway combination of spells to abuse. Of course, that would be a game to game variable since it's not guaranteed that those combinations will come out/come out quickly enough to be useful. Bolded part is why I'm not (as?) worried about Argent. There isn't a random start for Orleans.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:19
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Jedit posted:
I could see that, except that we keep having to play with a mix of new players and experienced players and the new players either have to have their hands held through the opening or they get run over. Maybe when the game gets into wider distribution when the KS ships, there'll be more experienced people around to play with and then we can see some kind of challenging end game.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:21
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I think some of the buildings have been slightly redesigned for balance for the kickstarter. There might be other changes too. (I'm hoping as I also backed it.)
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Feb 13, 2015 22:25
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Jedit posted:^^ DP spam gets worse the more people who go for it, as there aren't enough Scholars for everyone to get five and if everyone wants 2x or Monks some people won't even get four. Getting to 6x also takes a lot of work - if memory serves you need to get 10 DPs from actions even if you get five Scholars - and the first person to get there has a massive advantage as they'll usually have two extra Citizens. If you're behind, or the Scholars are split, it's much more efficient to get up to 4x or 5x and spam Hospital. This is a fair point. Most of my experience with the game is at 2p or 3p, where even though the characters are limited, the world map isn't constrained - meaning everyone can build as many guild halls as they can draw the right characters for. More players = a tighter world map and more overlap in possible strategies, so the 4p game probably doesn't suffer from that as much. In my experience, most of our games have a turn two or three Library, and its owner proceeds to activate it like twelve or thirteen times over the course of the game, which is a big chunk of the development track right there. Put that together with a typical 11 or 12 citizens + guild halls and that's a huge pile of endgame points.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:38
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Lorini posted:I could see that, except that we keep having to play with a mix of new players and experienced players and the new players either have to have their hands held through the opening or they get run over. Maybe when the game gets into wider distribution when the KS ships, there'll be more experienced people around to play with and then we can see some kind of challenging end game. I can see that. I know I've won every game I've played in part because I have to teach it and everyone else has been new, which I have worked around by trying a variety of strategies and either deliberately not buying the Bathhouse until turn 9 unless I get too far behind on Knights or only activating it every other turn. One of the people I played it with last time is an experienced gamer but he was new to Orleans. He too wasn't particularly thrilled in the first few turns because he didn't know what he was doing, but around the midgame it all fell into place. He lost heavily - 98 against 130+ for the other newbie and something mad like 160 for me - but he'd done a full Waldorf and Statler and now thought it was really good. Blamestorm: the only redesign is the Bathhouse, which now activates passively after you draw workers and gives two extra draws of which you return one. I like the change: the first recommended change to 2 out 1 back was too weak, as it basically turned a Farmer into one of two random workers. (I personally would have kept the activation and made it draw three, put two in the Market, which would stop it compounding into an invincible monster with Knight rush as you'd forfeit all draws above six.)
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Feb 13, 2015 22:40
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