|
Anatharon posted:I get the principle, I just don't think it works in practice. The only deaths I've ever had were full HP dudes getting 100-0'd without a chance to do anything. eh, that's life tbh I kinda see Shadowrun in this game myself. Sometimes you pull out really funny/easy wins, sometimes you just get a glitch and eat poo poo from the luckiest opponents of all time and the game just stares at you and shrugs its shoulders.
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 17:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 11:23 |
|
|
Minrad posted:eh, that's life I suppose part of my issue is that this feels like it should be a hard game. It's funny to see how my entire party is apparently recruited from an old folks home and regularly pisses themselves from OH GOD A TENT   Also check the dotes thread. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 17:20
|
|
|
Rascyc posted:You lose time and time is money! In retrospect I think time should have a heavier influence. Yes, weeks progress, but as someone stated earlier maybe there should be a "penalty" or challenge attached to that: enemies grow or heroes age and accumulate bad quirks or something I still hope that they will deliver on additional features, particularly the class bonus system and any special mechanics to do with the darkest dungeon itself
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 17:24
|
|
|
"Ambushed by bowel invention!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 17:29
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:And you *can* lose even top level characters sometimes. I lost a level 5 Dismas to the Swine God and Wilbur --- 67-point critical hit immediately followed by Wilbur's one-point deathblow. That's exactly how my level 2 Dismas died.  I'm thinking the 'strategy' for that fight to guarantee no death (other then two or three-shotting the big guy) involves abusing the protection stat. In regards to easy/repetitive comments, I stopped playing once I did a few level 3 dungeons so as to not burn out before they add more features. Game definitely needs something to mix it up and make you... feel um, loss. I imagine it's fairly common feedback for them at this point as well. On that note, if you're an X-Com fan, you're doing yourself a disservice by not checking out Xenonauts. It's come a long way from its earlier versions, and has added quite a few interesting/useful new mechanics to X-Com's combat. Air combat and UFO behavior in particular have a lot more going on (and not in an overwhelming fan-sperg manner) RubberBands Hurt fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Feb 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
They could do something like how X-Com sends 3 abductions at you at once - you can only take one of them, and then panic goes up in the other two countries. They could do a similar thing with the dungeons, where some sort of threat builds in each dungeon, and completing a mission there lowers the threat. I kind of liked the idea of some of the denizens spilling out. Maybe the pigs come and damage your blacksmith or guild hall and strip off an upgrade (which would also give you a use for heirlooms later in the game).
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 18:46
|
|
|
Maybe they could leave the lack of a failure state as is, allowing those other games to fulfill what people here are after?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:Maybe they could leave the lack of a failure state as is, allowing those other games to fulfill what people here are after? There's an easy and obvious solution; Just call one hard mode. My issue is that (partially being drawn in by the idea of 'survival horror' though it's not quite that, oh well) I feel like the game's got a very dark, horror-y aesthetic to it, but it's completely toothless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 19:03
|
|
|
Mushrooman posted:They could do something like how X-Com sends 3 abductions at you at once - you can only take one of them, and then panic goes up in the other two countries. You mean replicate one of the worst mechanics ever invented? Hell no.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 20:20
|
|
|
Anatharon posted:There's an easy and obvious solution; Just call one hard mode. It's probably because it lacks a sense of urgency/overall story arc like Xcom and also how in DD once you got past the first few weeks it has a somewhat trivial feel to the whole game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 20:35
|
|
|
If the game wasn't so RNG dependent at times a sense of urgency would suit it. At least in, say, XCOM you can mitigate what the RNG gives you - but here pretty much everything is reliant on it, and I don't think a game rushing you and getting to choose what you have would be particularly challenging. Just annoying.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 20:52
|
|
|
Dackel posted:In retrospect I think time should have a heavier influence. Yes, weeks progress, but as someone stated earlier maybe there should be a "penalty" or challenge attached to that: enemies grow or heroes age and accumulate bad quirks or something
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 20:53
|
|
I was explaining skeletal courtiers to a friend on IRCsome chat log posted:<@Telelion> wine gives stress?
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 20:55
|
|
|
Roll a few dungeons without any extra torches and see how toothless it feels, by the way. When the light level is at Dark to Pitch Black the game's difficulty really ratchets up a notch.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 20:56
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:Roll a few dungeons without any extra torches and see how toothless it feels, by the way. Crit is the god-stat so going pitch dark doesn't necessarily mean a blanket Hard Mode due to the buff to crits. It will, for sure, be extraordinarily harder in the early game but the middle/late game will still crumble if you get good trinkets. Honestly if you want an actual hard mode, don't use any trinkets and don't upgrade your skills. Congrats, now your abilities/stats are on par with the enemies as long as you keep your armor upgraded to keep your HP in line with enemies'
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 21:00
|
|
|
Anatharon posted:There's no real penalty for losing an entire team of dudes, so no real need to use it. The penalty for losing an entire team of dudes is anything in your inventory, any trinkets they have equipped, and the time and money you have invested into them. Even if you're using a group fresh off the wagon, why would you not use the option to get whatever haul they've managed to fetch so far instead of saying "yea I'm going to throw away any progress I've made from running this dungeon"? Out of curiosity, how many of you complaining that the game is too super easy have run level 5 dungeons since the patch, and how many of you do low light runs?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:Roll a few dungeons without any extra torches and see how toothless it feels, by the way. Darkness increases risk, but not difficulty, imo. You also crit a lot more when it's dark.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
Rascyc posted:Depends at what point of the game you do this. If you can pull it off with a party that performs well in the dark, you get so much treasure that you can grow the town faster than ever and feedback loop yourself into an even easier game. You actually leave loot behind when you do this. The That seems like a lot of words for "yeah dark is way harder unless you get exactly the right build for it, then it isnt so bad" Doesn't seem like a huge problem to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 21:28
|
|
|
Problem is the game should be difficult when its light, not only when its dark. The darkness should pose a significant threat like the game suggests it does. Its really not THAT much more dangerous though. The biggest danger to your team is still a string of lucky enemy crits, which will occur regardless of light level. I guess what I'm saying is I feel the level 3 and 5 dungeons should be a lot more dangerous overall and the threat posed by extreme darkness ramped up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:05
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:Roll a few dungeons without any extra torches and see how toothless it feels, by the way. I disagree. I actually find the dungeons easier in pitch black when your team can take a crit or two. The extra crits you do makes sure your stress level is at manageable levels, and at higher levels, your team can wipe enemy squads in 1-2 rounds. The only risk is getting surprised more often, and getting so much loot you have to toss stuff out. Edit: I probably wouldn't do pitch black for bosses, though. But that's an unnecessary risk anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:05
|
|
|
Death's Door Debuff seems to stay on some of my characters, even after you finish a dungeon.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:25
|
|
|
Broken Cog posted:I disagree. I actually find the dungeons easier in pitch black when your team can take a crit or two. The extra crits you do makes sure your stress level is at manageable levels Fyi at pitch black enemies crit more often too and they have substantially higher base damage An enemy crit stresses out your dudes roughly twice as much as a friendly crit destresses them so again unless you're rolling +crit poo poo you are likely running a bad stress deficit even without the increased stress of just walking around And if someone cracks in the field they stress out everyone really bad - it is easy to get into a stress spiral when its dark. Im not saying it makes the game nutball hard or anything and the payoff is definitely way way better but saying naw its easier holmes just doesn't hold up until you're stacking crit gear, at which point you're doing good anyway since crit is OP right now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:35
|
|
|
Unless something has changed in the last week, enemies do not gain higher crit chance at low light. This is what made my Grave Robber party so strong; they all have incredible crit in low light and the enemy just gains some accuracy and damage which are irrelevant with how often GRs dodge.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:40
|
|
|
It was in the tool tip for pitch black play just today so yeah i think it did
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:41
|
|
|
Yep, then I guess they do. It wasn't in the tooltip last time I played. That's good news! Pitch black was making the game easier for me instead of harder.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
It is still pretty annoying that enemy crits do stress damage even if they're very low damage. I had to retreat for the first time after a battle where an enemy crit my two front guys for two damage on an attack, then did it again the next round. I finished up the fight but having everyone go from ~10 stress to ~60 is pretty sucky. I know it's just RNG, and it's not a big deal, but there should probably be a threshold that a crit has to surpass before it stresses your party out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:53
|
|
|
Chakan posted:It is still pretty annoying that enemy crits do stress damage even if they're very low damage. I had to retreat for the first time after a battle where an enemy crit my two front guys for two damage on an attack, then did it again the next round. I finished up the fight but having everyone go from ~10 stress to ~60 is pretty sucky. I know it's just RNG, and it's not a big deal, but there should probably be a threshold that a crit has to surpass before it stresses your party out. I could see it being a percentage of max life dealt in damage, and other games have that kind of shock mechanic already.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 22:57
|
|
|
Chakan posted:It is still pretty annoying that enemy crits do stress damage even if they're very low damage. I had to retreat for the first time after a battle where an enemy crit my two front guys for two damage on an attack, then did it again the next round. I finished up the fight but having everyone go from ~10 stress to ~60 is pretty sucky. I know it's just RNG, and it's not a big deal, but there should probably be a threshold that a crit has to surpass before it stresses your party out. I understand the idea behind even low damage crits causing stress because it means every monster is potentially dangerous to your party in some way, further discouraging any kind of stall play. I have a problem with it when it comes to how this game handles rolls for multitarget attacks being a single one. If an enemy crits with a party attack, its a massive gently caress you. A huge amount of stress gets dumped on you with pretty much nothing you can do about it. Have the devs said anything about why they have all actions only operate under a single roll? I really don't like that. It leads to swingy fights where you can wipe out entire formations with a single crit and the enemy can completely gently caress you with one party crit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 23:10
|
|
|
Coolguye posted:That seems like a lot of words for "yeah dark is way harder unless you get exactly the right build for it, then it isnt so bad" Nah. Even not crit-heavy classes like Crusader or Hellion will get ~20% crit bonus if it's pitch black, which far outweighs any danger from the enemies being slightly stronger/more accurate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 23:20
|
|
|
Its good to know that the game can be simultaneously too easy and too unforgiving
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 23:20
|
|
|
I kinda like like when negative quirks work out with some sort of theme: My Dismas is a complete shitkicker who is obsessed with, and bad with money.  
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2015 23:57
|
|
|
Genocyber posted:Nah. Even not crit-heavy classes like Crusader or Hellion will get ~20% crit bonus if it's pitch black, which far outweighs any danger from the enemies being slightly stronger/more accurate. 6%. Not 20, not even 10. 6%. That means that you will probably crit one more time per character in the entire dungeon, if you play in low light the entire time. This is not significant to your strategy. It's not significant on crit-stacking teams; it's not significant on standard teams. It would only be significant if you could get up to at least 60% or 70% crit without the dark bonus, because then your strategy could switch to actually relying on a crit. (+6% when you're already at 70% means the number of times you fail drops by 1/5th, quite significant.) Instead you use the same strategy non-crit teams do (focus fire) and every so often you overkill with a finishing blow, or you get 2 whole damage from a stun, or maybe you actually do crit a full health monster and it's an actual (exceedingly minor) benefit. The thing is, the human brain is going to be really bad at estimating the effectiveness of crits. You're going to think they're worth more than they are because you'll remember that time you one-shot a full health ghoul. Never mind that you had 2 stuns coming up and it wouldn't have gotten an action. You crit for so much damage so it had to be good, right? Coolguye posted:Its good to know that the game can be simultaneously too easy and too unforgiving Difficulty can be funny like that. A game that only gives you one life doesn't have any more challenge in the puzzles/jumps/whatever than the same game with infinite lives at checkpoints. Depending on the challenges it might even be easy. But it's certainly a more unforgiving game than the version with infinite lives.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 00:05
|
|
|
The Lord of Hats posted:1) Nerf the ability to freely pick abilities. If you're at the wagon choosing between two characters of a given class, and one has good quirks and the other comes with a great skill loadout, you'll pick the first one every time, because the difference only represents a couple thousand gold's worth of investment, which is largely inconsequential. I wouldn't remove this entirely, but if characters were limited to only learning say, 6 of their class's 8 skills, even though that still doesn't cut off your ability to tailor a character to what you want them to be, but it also means that you'll have a little more distinction between them. Jackard fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 00:10
|
|
|
Fabricated posted:I kinda like like when negative quirks work out with some sort of theme: I've got a Hellion who's seen some weird poo poo go down in the Abbey, gotten kicked out of the Brothel, and now the only thing left is drowning her sorrows at the bar, where she gets too shitfaced for consistent crits.  My favorite positive quirks combo so far was Slayer of Beast and Hatred of Beasts. That Hellion really hated those beasts. RIP whatever your name was, you burned too brightly On my wishlist is some way to have a little more management of what quirks you can get and/or keep.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 00:16
|
|
|
So, in the mission select screen, what's the significance of the level bar and number that seems to go up as you do more missions? I've killed the Apprentice Necromancer so when i mouse over that bar it says to clear a path to the boss. I'm assuming that when i do that number will become a 3. Do the dungeons get progressively harder independent of the mission difficulty? Also, is there any time pressures, or can you just keep doing missions for 100 weeks or something.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 00:45
|
|
|
I had a Leper with Nymphomania and Deviant Tastes. He liked stuff. Weird stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 00:46
|
|
|
TheBlandName posted:6%. Not 20, not even 10. 6%. That means that you will probably crit one more time per character in the entire dungeon, if you play in low light the entire time. This is not significant to your strategy. It's not significant on crit-stacking teams; it's not significant on standard teams. It would only be significant if you could get up to at least 60% or 70% crit without the dark bonus, because then your strategy could switch to actually relying on a crit. (+6% when you're already at 70% means the number of times you fail drops by 1/5th, quite significant.) Instead you use the same strategy non-crit teams do (focus fire) and every so often you overkill with a finishing blow, or you get 2 whole damage from a stun, or maybe you actually do crit a full health monster and it's an actual (exceedingly minor) benefit. No, the increased crit chance is actually helpful. I've done a few light runs recently, and they almost always go worse than the dark runs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 01:05
|
|
|
Genocyber posted:No, the increased crit chance is actually helpful. I've done a few light runs recently, and they almost always go worse than the dark runs. Yeah also get a bigger loot haul too, while max light only gives you a rare first strike advantage.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
etalian posted:Yeah also get a bigger loot haul too, while max light only gives you a rare first strike advantage. Radiant Light makes Scouting much more likely to trigger (I usually get it at least 3 times on a Medium mission vs lucky to get it once on Pitch Black) and Scouting is extremely helpful for plotting your route. It is also the only way to detect and disarm traps. Genocyber posted:No, the increased crit chance is actually helpful. I've done a few light runs recently, and they almost always go worse than the dark runs. you realize you're demonstrating the whole 'your monkey-brain sucks at probabilities' thing he explained in the post you're quoting right? if by 'a few' you mean 'less than like 10' then you just didn't get RNG hosed or stress spiraled. well i'm happy for you but it kinda means precisely dick. and you realize you demonstrated it in your previous post by misinterpreting 6% as 20% right?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 01:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 11:23 |
|
|
Aidopunko posted:So, in the mission select screen, what's the significance of the level bar and number that seems to go up as you do more missions?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2015 01:43
|
|