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That's the one thing i liked in Swordfish. It's overall a terrible movie, but there's a bit where Travolta is explaining to Jackman why the good guys always win in hollywood being that they aren't allowed to show that crime pays and that all bad guys must pay for what they do etc. But they then go and let Travolta get away with his master plan anyway completely going against what they just set up in that speech. I get that we're supposed to think Travolta was running a means to an end bad guy thing in that he would target even badder guys when he was super rich, but still a nice little twist.
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Feb 16, 2015 19:00
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My favorite subversion of the plot armor trope came from Final Destination... 2, maybe? The characters have just finished having an argument about who is going to die next based on where they were sitting on the Mechanical Thing That Killed Them All This Time Around, and a character is right in the middle of boasting about how they're moving on and forgetting about the whole thing... when they walk away from the others, into the middle of the street, and get pasted by a bus.  edit: It was the first one. NWS because it's Final Destination so obviously it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jt2f-Zpe80 It's just so hilariously stupid 
CJacobs has a new favorite as of 19:27 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 19:24
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dpack_1 posted:That's the one thing i liked in Swordfish. It's overall a terrible movie, but there's a bit where Travolta is explaining to Jackman why the good guys always win in hollywood being that they aren't allowed to show that crime pays and that all bad guys must pay for what they do etc. Isn't the point that Travolta is the 'bad guy' and he 'gets away with his master plan' the way Hollywood wouldn't let him? He's kinda an anti-hero, yeah, but he was mostly the villain of the film. But then yeah, I guess that last second twist was kinda a reveal that he was the good guy all along? I don't know.
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Feb 16, 2015 19:57
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Che Delilas posted:I would certainly love to see a climactic action sequence where after mowing through all the mooks and the evil lair exploding all around him, the hero sees the villain in retreat, has a shot, and takes the shot. No standoff, no monologuing, just capitalizing on an opportunity. There are a myriad of other ways to create dramatic tension in the climax; the hero could still have to escape the disintegrating lair, or figure out how to cancel the nuclear missile launch, or an object of rescue could be in peril with no clear way to get to them. I think I recall this being basically how the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen ended. The villain gets plugged right in the back while fleeing to his escape sub, of all things, by a heroic character, which definitely felt like an uncommon end for a movie. Also my irrational irritation is that I never read the comics, so I never got why everyone hated The League of Extraordinary Gentleman movie.
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Feb 16, 2015 19:58
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Midnight Raider posted:The villain gets plugged right in the back by a heroic character
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Feb 16, 2015 20:01
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James Bond in Quantum of Solace straight up catches up with the bad guy in the desert solely to then drop him off again further into said desert and gives him a can of motor oil to drink if he gets thirsty. Honestly Quantum of Solace is much better than people give it credit for, personally I prefer it to Skyfall.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:29
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Zaphod42 posted:This is totally accurate and why the drama in most Hollywood films is totally hosed. It kinda crossed over to the other side for me, where it was such a parade of misery and death that why would I give a poo poo about any of the characters, they're just props to get tortured/die/get tortured then die.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:29
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Lack of plot armor is literally the only thing I liked about the new Red Dawn, I don't care that it was foreshadowed to hell and back, watching Thor get shot right after the successful raid into the
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Feb 16, 2015 21:41
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Vulpes posted:Yeah, after gunning through hordes of mooks who so much as looked at him sideways, it seems unlikely that Generic Action Hero Man is going to see the master villain pointing a gun at him and suddenly decide to stop and talk. Most of the time you can get around that with either a hostage or a plot point (only Villain knows the secret code to disarm the bomb) , but then there is literally zero reason for the villain to not immediately open fire. This annoys me every time I watch Total Recall. It's like, Arnold has shot his way through a bazillion guys at this point, including taking down multiple squads of dudes with machine guns without any trouble. Then he gets to the end and it's like, one old man with a handgun, better give up I don't stand a chance here.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:44
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Pook Good Mook posted:James Bond in Quantum of Solace straight up catches up with the bad guy in the desert solely to then drop him off again further into said desert and gives him a can of motor oil to drink if he gets thirsty. He interrogates him in between.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:16
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Midnight Raider posted:I think I recall this being basically how the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen ended. The villain gets plugged right in the back while fleeing to his escape sub, of all things, by a heroic character, which definitely felt like an uncommon end for a movie. If all you want out of a League of Extraordinary Gentleman movie is "cross-over fanfiction of older literary figures" then the movie is dumb but serviceable. But if you're expecting what you got in the comic, then it doesn't deliver. I can't think of a single character between the two that was recognizable.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:18
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Midnight Raider posted:Also my irrational irritation is that I never read the comics, so I never got why everyone hated The League of Extraordinary Gentleman movie. LXG is a mediocre-to-decent movie, and that's a pretty generous review. The comic, on the other hand, is one of the more interesting and surprising comics I have ever read. Would you believe me if I told you that Mr. Hyde is one of the most complex characters in comic books? Because in my opinion, he is definitely up there.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:23
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Ignite Memories posted:LXG is a mediocre-to-decent movie, and that's a pretty generous review. Especially his relationship with Mina once he figures out why he doesn't frighten her.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:58
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Zaphod42 posted:This is totally accurate and why the drama in most Hollywood films is totally hosed. It's been pretty well established that certain characters have plot armor in GoT though. Specifically Dany, Arya, Tyrion, Bran and probably Jon, who is currently thought to be dead, much like Arya at the end of CoK. e: to spoiler tag some old rear end books for the tv audience syscall girl has a new favorite as of 23:08 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 23:01
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syscall girl posted:It's been pretty well established that certain characters have plot armor in GoT though. <snip> I don't think he meant the books there, in case you want to edit out that little spoiler. People hype up "Everyone can die!" ever since Ned got it, but really there hasn't been any deaths that haven't been fairly telegraphed. Like father like son.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:05
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mng posted:I don't think he meant the books there, in case you want to edit out that little spoiler. Oberyn and the Red Wedding were pretty unexpected, Joffrey too
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Feb 16, 2015 23:25
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EmmyOk posted:Oberyn and the Red Wedding were pretty unexpected, Joffrey too Red Wedding was what he meant by saying 'like father like son'. But its easy to say 'it was telegraphed' in retrospect; It definitely came as a shock to many readers/writers so that's kinda bullshit. Oberyn, Rob and Joffrey are just the beginning though. Yeah you have some good characters survive, but that's the point. If everybody died it'd be too predictable for the opposite reason, and some people are already saying too many characters die to get invested in the show. I think there's a good balance. Most of the characters he cited as having plot armor are characters who weren't really in that many dangerous situations, or they were and it resolved realistically. The only one who really seems to have plot armor is Tyrion; who has been through some pretty drat dangerous poo poo and keeps on ticking. He's also an audience favorite so its an easy complaint to levy, but its still anything approaching a Hollywood feel-good story where you loving KNOW what is going to happen.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:44
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EmmyOk posted:Oberyn and the Red Wedding were pretty unexpected, Joffrey too Fair enough, I'll give you Joffrey and especially Oberyn. The RW was definitely a shock, but Robb was definitely treading shaky ground.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:48
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I'll ask here because it would be safer than asking in TVIV, when does GoT get good(lack of a better word). I've tried watching it five or six times now but the first couple episodes are just really dry and boring to me and can't hold my attention so I've never gotten past them. I keep hearing how amazing and good the series is so I feel like I'm missing something but I just haven't gotten hooked. But I'm also weird and forced myself through season 1 of The Wire and didn't care enough to watch the rest. So maybe HBO series just aren't for me?
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Feb 16, 2015 23:55
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Len posted:I'll ask here because it would be safer than asking in TVIV, when does GoT get good(lack of a better word). I've tried watching it five or six times now but the first couple episodes are just really dry and boring to me and can't hold my attention so I've never gotten past them. I keep hearing how amazing and good the series is so I feel like I'm missing something but I just haven't gotten hooked. The thing that grabbed me, which would be a spoiler to you was an awful shitheel of a child king doing a really awful thing. Joffrey just unilaterally has Ned's head off after discussing the matter with his child bride, mother and other political types. If that's new to you you really don't see it coming. It was so awful it made me want to read the books to see what happens to lovely child king. He died a pretty nasty death but maybe a little too quickly
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Feb 16, 2015 23:59
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Len posted:I'll ask here because it would be safer than asking in TVIV, when does GoT get good(lack of a better word). I've tried watching it five or six times now but the first couple episodes are just really dry and boring to me and can't hold my attention so I've never gotten past them. I keep hearing how amazing and good the series is so I feel like I'm missing something but I just haven't gotten hooked. I love both of those shows and I would say no. If you ever have to force yourself to watch a show it's not for you imo, the people recommending it were able to get through those episodes without prompting.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:06
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I was hooked on The Wire since episode 1, which is apparently in the minority. If you really weren't interested after the first season, then yeah don't bother. Same with GoT I'd say.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:10
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Len posted:I'll ask here because it would be safer than asking in TVIV, when does GoT get good(lack of a better word). I've tried watching it five or six times now but the first couple episodes are just really dry and boring to me and can't hold my attention so I've never gotten past them. I keep hearing how amazing and good the series is so I feel like I'm missing something but I just haven't gotten hooked. It depends on who you ask, I guess. I'd say if you get through episode 6 and are still "meh" about it, give it up and watch something you actually enjoy. It takes a few episodes for the numerous characters to be introduced and lots of plotlines need to be established, but if you're not invested by the end of the sixth episode, it's probably not for you. No big deal.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:12
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Zaphod42 posted:Isn't the point that Travolta is the 'bad guy' and he 'gets away with his master plan' the way Hollywood wouldn't let him?
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Feb 17, 2015 00:12
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Aleph Null posted:Especially his relationship with Mina once he figures out why he doesn't frighten her. What's that.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:37
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Frostwerks posted:What's that. LXG comics: She's a vampire and can easily rip him to pieces.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:30
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Frostwerks posted:What's that. She's encountered a much worse monster than Hyde. Jedit posted:LXG comics: She's a vampire and can easily rip him to pieces. Also that.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:47
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Also Mr. Hyde rapes the Invisible Man to death. league of Extraordinary a gentleman comic spoiler. Sorry, but I was hesitant to read the comics after I saw that terrible movie and that spoiler was what got me interested. Your Gay Uncle has a new favorite as of 02:52 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 02:03
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Woah! Spoiler that, dude! It's a really awesome scene! Edit: thank you. Now if only this jerk under me would follow suit. Also, Mina is NOT a vampire. I'm not sure where you got that impression if you read the comics. That's a movie thing, and one of reasons the movie sucks. In the comics, it's never implied that she is any more than a badass woman who has lived through some traumatic poo poo. (LXG) Ignite Memories has a new favorite as of 03:11 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 02:11
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Also Mr. Hyde rapes the Invisible Man to death. Ignite Memories posted:Woah! Spoiler that, dude! It's a really awesome scene!
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Feb 17, 2015 02:27
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Have you read the book in question, or are you just in a shaming mood tonight? It's Alan loving Moore, and the reveal is amazing. So step off. And don't y'all be spoiling poo poo for no good reason. Ignite Memories has a new favorite as of 02:38 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 02:35
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No, please, elaborate on how totally badass it was.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:36
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Get bent dude.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:39
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Ignite Memories posted:Have you read the book in question, or are you just in a shaming mood tonight? If you can't see how dumb and terrible Mr. Hyde rapes the Invisible Man to death sounds without any context, I don't know what's wrong with you. Maybe it works in the comic, but I can't imagine how.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:38
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Tiggum posted:If you can't see how dumb and terrible Mr. Hyde rapes the Invisible Man to death sounds without any context, I don't know what's wrong with you. Maybe it works in the comic, but I can't imagine how. I thought the reveal was neat. Hyde was sitting at the dinner table eating and then slowly blood starts to show on him. Turns out even the Invisible Mans blood was invisible as long as he was alive. Everyone at the table is of course repulsed that this happens. I think the reason Hyde did it was because the Invisible Man sold everyone out to the Martians and attacked (raped?) Mina. I haven't actually read it I've just seen the panels.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:58
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Tiggum posted:If you can't see how dumb and terrible Mr. Hyde rapes the Invisible Man to death sounds without any context, I don't know what's wrong with you. Maybe it works in the comic, but I can't imagine how. In addition to the above, the invisible man was also, himself, a rapist. I can't say it's exactly "well handled" but it's dark without being outright crass about it.
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Feb 17, 2015 05:14
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Len posted:I thought the reveal was neat. Hyde was sitting at the dinner table eating and then slowly blood starts to show on him. Turns out even the Invisible Mans blood was invisible as long as he was alive. Everyone at the table is of course repulsed that this happens. I think the reason Hyde did it was because the Invisible Man sold everyone out to the Martians and attacked (raped?) Mina. I haven't actually read it I've just seen the panels. He rapes the invisible man to death because the invisible man raped Mina, and Hyde had grown to respect her. It's awesome because of the reveal at dinner, (also what he reveals at dinner about where Dr Jeckyl went and why), but also in what it says about the character of Hyde, who up until that point is seen as a horrible monster Basically what I am saying is The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen are AWESOME comics. And they have Rupert Bear in them, which is nice.
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Feb 17, 2015 05:17
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BrigadierSensible posted:but also in what it says about the character of Hyde, who up until that point is seen as a horrible monster I'm not sure how this changes that.
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Feb 17, 2015 06:06
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Zaphod42 posted:Red Wedding was what he meant by saying 'like father like son'. But its easy to say 'it was telegraphed' in retrospect; It definitely came as a shock to many readers/writers so that's kinda bullshit. Oberyn, Rob and Joffrey are just the beginning though. Yeah you have some good characters survive, but that's the point. If everybody died it'd be too predictable for the opposite reason, and some people are already saying too many characters die to get invested in the show. I think there's a good balance. Most of the characters he cited as having plot armor are characters who weren't really in that many dangerous situations, or they were and it resolved realistically. The only one who really seems to have plot armor is Tyrion; who has been through some pretty drat dangerous poo poo and keeps on ticking. He's also an audience favorite so its an easy complaint to levy, but its still anything approaching a Hollywood feel-good story where you loving KNOW what is going to happen. It seemed pretty obvious in retrospect that Oberyn would die because he seemed like a good person and those types always die horribly in GoT. It's kind of predictable actually. Still good though. It was also obvious that Sean Bean would die, but you know.
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Feb 17, 2015 06:16
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Now I don't want to read LXG.
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Feb 17, 2015 06:55
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