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Venom Snake posted:How is Europe in any way a hostile climate to Jewish people when the largest Muslim population is in France at 10%, and less than 1% of terrorism acts in Europe in the past few years were committed by Muslims or Islam related, that doesn't really seem like cause to pick up and leave. I'm going to guess that >90% of deaths due to terrorism in Europe over the past few years have been at the hands of radical Muslims. Just slightly higher than your number, which probably counts things like knocking over a trash can as "terrorism."
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Feb 16, 2015 02:26
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Then again, the last successful terrorist attack in Denmark was at the hands of a neo-nazi angry about immigration in 1992. Edit: http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ller%C3%B8dgadebomben SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 02:31
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Arkane posted:I'm going to guess that >90% of deaths due to terrorism in Europe over the past few years have been at the hands of radical Muslims. Just slightly higher than your number, which probably counts things like knocking over a trash can as "terrorism." Did you specify "last few years" just to exclude Utøya?  http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/01/daily-chart-8
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Feb 16, 2015 02:36
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Arkane posted:I'm going to guess that >90% of deaths due to terrorism in Europe over the past few years have been at the hands of radical Muslims. Just slightly higher than your number, which probably counts things like knocking over a trash can as "terrorism." More people die each year due to lightning and bird related incidents than Islamic terror. Why hasn't everyone moved to the underground super dome to escape the evils of birds and lightning? At least at the superdome they shall be defended against such horrors.
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Feb 16, 2015 02:39
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Venom Snake posted:More people die each year due to lightning and bird related incidents than Islamic terror. That must be a comforting statistic to residents of Mosul. Oh, I see. By "people" you meant "white people".
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Feb 16, 2015 02:50
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Exclamation Marx posted:Did you specify "last few years" just to exclude Utøya? Nope, he did. The chart excludes the beheading of a UK soldier (edit: I see, "two or more deaths"), as well as foiled plots and failed attacks (like the Glasgow airport). In the totality of the situation, that chart shows you that something like Norway is an ugly exception, and the repetition of violence perpetrated by Muslim radicals is sadly becoming a norm. Arkane fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 02:50
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Smudgie Buggler posted:That must be a comforting statistic to residents of Mosul. The post he was referring to specified Europe, in the context of whether islamic terrorism represented a significant threat to the lives of average Europeans, so unless Mosul is in Europe now you can ease off your embarrassing hip-shot racism accusation.
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Feb 16, 2015 02:53
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Arkane posted:Nope, he did. The chart excludes the beheading of a UK soldier, as well as foiled plots and failed attacks (like the Glasgow airport). The chart shows that Islamic terrorists are small time compared to humanities greatest enemy, doors. When will the Jews of europe flee to Israel, a land well known for not having a single door?
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Feb 16, 2015 03:02
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Venom Snake posted:How is Europe in any way a hostile climate to Jewish people when the largest Muslim population is in France at 10%, and less than 1% of terrorism acts in Europe in the past few years were committed by Muslims or Islam related, that doesn't really seem like cause to pick up and leave. This narrative of danger from anti-semitism is Zionist rhetoric, so it's not too surprising to see that sort of narrative propagate itself much like "rocket attacks"  gets bandied about in America.
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Feb 16, 2015 03:07
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Arkane posted:Nope, he did. The chart excludes the beheading of a UK soldier, as well as foiled plots and failed attacks (like the Glasgow airport). You chose to discard non-fatal attacks in your post. Culprits during the period of 06–11 are entirely 'unknown' or 'other', should we believe that those attacks culminated in the Norwegian massacre? If I'm reading the chart right it groups fatalities by attack, indicating there have been few Islamist terror attacks since the 7/7 bombing, with no realistic trend. It's unfortunate it doesn't specify year or perpetrator for the single-victim attacks but whatever.
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Feb 16, 2015 03:09
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Venom Snake posted:More people die each year due to lightning and bird related incidents than Islamic terror. Why hasn't everyone moved to the underground super dome to escape the evils of birds and lightning? At least at the superdome they shall be defended against such horrors. More people die of x than y, therefore x is no big deal, context and timing are not relevant at all.
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Feb 16, 2015 05:51
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dilbertschalter posted:More people die of x than y, therefore x is no big deal, context and timing are not relevant at all. Context and timing are relevant, Islamic terrorism is not a threat to the average citizen Jewish or not. Is Islamic terrorism bad? Yes, and it should be stopped, but it's not nearly dangerous as people think it is.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:01
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Liberal_L33t posted:A "need"? Perhaps not quite - but it can definitely be useful, and justified, if the goal is abhorrent enough.
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Feb 16, 2015 06:24
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Sheikh Muhammad Abul Huda al-Yaqoubi:quote:In the wake of the terrorist attacks which took place in the past two days in Copenhagen, Denmark, we would like to express in the strongest words our condemnation of these attacks and show our solidarity with the Danish people and the Danish government.
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Feb 16, 2015 20:20
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boom boom boom posted:Do the Jews living in East Asia, like Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc. get much poo poo? The big Korean message boards are pretty anti-Semitic, but they probably couldn't tell a Hasid from a Mennonite and half of it is like Americans using the word "gypped" without any kind of a clue. No one really cares. Venom Snake posted:How is Europe in any way a hostile climate to Jewish people when the largest Muslim population is in France at 10%, and less than 1% of terrorism acts in Europe in the past few years were committed by Muslims or Islam related, that doesn't really seem like cause to pick up and leave. SedanChair posted:This narrative of danger from anti-semitism is Zionist rhetoric, so it's not too surprising to see that sort of narrative propagate itself much like "rocket attacks" Yeah, no. Copenhagen has four synagogues that I could find on Google. There are 8000 total Jews in Denmark. That's a 1 in 4 chance of "your" synagogue getting hit and 1% of all Jews in the country fired upon at that bar mitzvah. Same for Brussels, Paris, etc. The total number of Jews isn't that large and there are a lot of anti-Semitic acts that don't get reported, just like when bigots do it to Muslims. It's not loving lightning strikes.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:51
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Adar posted:Yeah, no. Copenhagen has four synagogues that I could find on Google. There are 8000 total Jews in Denmark. That's a 1 in 4 chance of "your" synagogue getting hit and 1% of all Jews in the country fired upon at that bar mitzvah. It's being framed as an existential threat, which it is not.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:55
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I agree the attacks should stop, and I'm glad the Danish government is doing it's best to stop them. The continually sky falling dance party people keep having about Euro governments not caring about Jews is dumb and acting like some magical solution to this is every Jew moving to Israel is stupid. antisemitism is not an inherently Muslim issue, and thinking an increase in anti-Semitic acts is some how related to Muslim immigration is also stupid.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:09
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What does existential mean to you? I'm not being pedantic. Nothing's gonna happen to them tomorrow or next year. But the community in Malmo will definitely be gone in a generation. If the French Jews keep leaving at 2% a year they'll be a fraction of their numbers in two. There's a real conversation going on right now. It's not just Netanyahu being an rear end in a top hat. Not all that long ago, the people who argued the hardest for assimilation died first. The survivors are paranoid (see also Israel) and it doesn't take much to get them thinking. There are a significant number of people arguing that Malmo is the canary in the coalmine and the solution is to get out now. That the left is downplaying this or ignoring it is not helping the rest of us out.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:12
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People are this brazenly and openly antisemitic in France? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltyhmrIFgo
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Feb 16, 2015 22:28
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Arkane posted:Nope, he did. The chart excludes the beheading of a UK soldier (edit: I see, "two or more deaths"), as well as foiled plots and failed attacks (like the Glasgow airport). white people violence: exceptional and extraordinary brown people violence: a sad tendency of a backward race good job as usual, arkane
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Feb 16, 2015 22:32
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Why would French Jews choose to go to Israel when they could, in all likelihood, go to Montreal almost as easily, and probably be even safer than in Israel? There's a substantial Jewish community there, they speak the same language, it's in a first-world country, and the province of Quebec will do drat near anything to get Francophones to move there.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:33
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Arkane posted:People are this brazenly and openly antisemitic in France? People are that racist in most places of Europe. Some who is black, wearing a veil, a Roma, etc. would get the same in 10 hours of random streets. It's not like Israel isn't worse, just not against Jews 
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Feb 16, 2015 22:35
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Adar posted:What does existential mean to you? In what way is the left downplaying this when the EU Governments are doing their best to protect the Jewish people in Europe, In almost all of these attacks at least 1 or 2 soldiers were harmed. There is no canary in the coal mine, the Euro governments are responding appropriately to the situation. PT6A posted:Why would French Jews choose to go to Israel when they could, in all likelihood, go to Montreal almost as easily, and probably be even safer than in Israel? There's a substantial Jewish community there, they speak the same language, it's in a first-world country, and the province of Quebec will do drat near anything to get Francophones to move there. Israel has a pretty good package deal for Jewish Immigrants, and a lot of people view (wrongfully in my opinion) Israel as the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people and that they don't belong anywhere else. Florida has the second highest Jewish population in the U.S. and Iv met more than few people who moved here from Israel to escape the insanity of Jewish politics there.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:39
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Popular Thug Drink posted:white people violence: exceptional and extraordinary Doesn't have anything to do with race -- as we saw in Boston. The commonality is the twisted interpretation of Islam, not the color of the skin. Boko Haram is a different race than Hamas is a different race than the Chechens is a different race than Jemaah Islamiyah. Islamic terrorism is geographically and racially diverse. What happened in Norway is a rare and tragic occurrence with no known affiliation to other acts. Meanwhile, terrorist violence perpetrated by Muslims has been common over the past couple of decades, and has scarily ramped back up in Europe over the past few years. DarkCrawler posted:People are that racist in most places of Europe. Some who is black, wearing a veil, a Roma, etc. would get the same in 10 hours of random streets. I realize racism exists in a lot of places, but it's a little disturbing that a first world country with a history of complicity in the mass murder of Jews could still see such wanton antisemitism. Arkane fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Feb 16, 2015 |
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Feb 16, 2015 22:42
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Arkane posted:What happened in Norway is a rare and tragic occurrence with no known affiliation to other acts. Meanwhile, terrorist violence perpetrated by Muslims has been common over the past couple of decades, and has scarily ramped back up in Europe over the past few years. yeah i can see how you would think extremist right wing white nationalism is a totally out of the blue act with no connection to anyone or anything
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Feb 16, 2015 22:50
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PT6A posted:Why would French Jews choose to go to Israel when they could, in all likelihood, go to Montreal almost as easily, and probably be even safer than in Israel? There's a substantial Jewish community there, they speak the same language, it's in a first-world country, and the province of Quebec will do drat near anything to get Francophones to move there. They have been emigrating to Montreal, although it's not quite as simple as you might think. Montreal's Jewish community has historically been Anglophone and Ashkenazic, whereas French Jews are mostly Sephardic. The two Jewish communities don't mix very easily - it's not as if a second-generation family of Moroccan Jews from Marseille could set up house in Outremont with the Hasidim and feel at home. Sephardim and Hasidim have very little in common. Also, there is a long history of antisemitism among Catholic French Canadians. Montreal is a city overwhelmingly segregated along linguistic lines, and the Jewish community has traditionally been firmly on the Anglo side.
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Feb 16, 2015 22:58
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah i can see how you would think extremist right wing white nationalism is a totally out of the blue act with no connection to anyone or anything Good job just isolating that bit of the post. I'll stick with it, though. How many deadly terrorist acts committed by right wing white nationalists have taken place over the past 25 years? What are the casualties? How would you say it compares to the tens of thousands killed by Islamic terrorism that has touched every continent except Antarctica? Would you say that trying to equate the two on any level is something only an idiot would do? In reality we're dealing with consistent and widespread Muslim violence in Africa, Europe, the Middle East, and across the south of Asia, extending into Australia.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:04
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PT6A posted:Why would French Jews choose to go to Israel when they could, in all likelihood, go to Montreal almost as easily, and probably be even safer than in Israel? There's a substantial Jewish community there, they speak the same language, it's in a first-world country, and the province of Quebec will do drat near anything to get Francophones to move there. Israel was set up as a Jewish nation where Jewish people would be safe from the centuries of oppression and discrimination they've faced basically everywhere else. There's a much larger Jewish community there, it's a first-world country, and the nation as a whole will do drat near anything to protect it's Jewish citizens.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:05
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Arkane posted:
That's a good starting point because it lets us count the Gulf War, sanctions and the post-911 wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Millions dead.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:08
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DarkCrawler posted:People are that racist in most places of Europe. Some who is black, wearing a veil, a Roma, etc. would get the same in 10 hours of random streets. I don't really see acts like that very much in London.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:08
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Arkane posted:Good job just isolating that bit of the post. I'll stick with it, though. You're equating them, so I guess you're an idiot?
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Feb 16, 2015 23:09
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Arkane posted:Good job just isolating that bit of the post. I'll stick with it, though. so what's the threshold of death and injury where white nationalist terrorists commit isolated incidents that do not reflect badly on a group of people whereas muslim terrorists are indicative of a bloodthirsty cult? why do you treat one group differently than the other?
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Feb 16, 2015 23:09
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boom boom boom posted:Israel was set up as a Jewish nation where Jewish people would be safe from the centuries of oppression and discrimination they've faced basically everywhere else. There's a much larger Jewish community there, it's a first-world country, and the nation as a whole will do drat near anything to protect it's Jewish citizens. Personally, I feel safer in North America than in Israel. The US and Canada are both nations that are indisputably tenable in the long term, whereas Israel's future is very much up in the air.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:12
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Yeah personally I'd pick NY or SF over all of those options. The problem for, say, Parisian Jews in a nutshell: if they're rightist they're terrified of the brown hordes. If they're left wing and anti-Israel they have few friends in the community and still hear about things like that video every so often, while the left downplays their experiences because Israel did a thing or writes some of it off as Islamophobia. Moderates are starting to pick sides. Government reactions have been very good, but no amount of armed guards outside their synagogues are gonna make people feel happier.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:28
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Arkane posted:People are this brazenly and openly antisemitic in France? 1:30 minutes out of 10 hours of walking, and one of the comments is "viva palestine" which i guess is a bit of strange thing to just say cause you see a jew but it's not really anti-semitic either. If you walk around in west jerusalem or even 'liberal' tel-aviv with a kaffiyeh for ten hours you'd probably get a lot more than 1:30 minutes of edited footage out of it.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:31
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emanresu tnuocca posted:1:30 minutes out of 10 hours of walking, and one of the comments is "viva palestine" which i guess is a bit of strange thing to just say cause you see a jew but it's not really anti-semitic either. If you walk around in west jerusalem or even 'liberal' tel-aviv with a kaffiyeh for ten hours you'd probably get a lot more than 1:30 minutes of edited footage out of it. Holy poo poo look at those goalposts move. I think I heard a sonic boom.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:36
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1:30 minutes of anti-semitic comments after 10 hours of walking prove that people in france are brazenly anti-semitic? I don't think that's a very potent argument. Sorry about your goal posts.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:40
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Adar posted:The problem for, say, Parisian Jews in a nutshell: if they're rightist they're terrified of the brown hordes. If they're left wing and anti-Israel they have few friends in the community and still hear about things like that video every so often, while the left downplays their experiences because Israel did a thing or writes some of it off as Islamophobia. Moderates are starting to pick sides. Yeah, antisemitism cannot exist because Israel did a thing, but we must not judge Muslims by a thing that other Muslims do, because racism. quote:Government reactions have been very good, but no amount of armed guards outside their synagogues are gonna make people feel happier. Agreed.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:40
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emanresu tnuocca posted:1:30 minutes out of 10 hours of walking, and one of the comments is "viva palestine" which i guess is a bit of strange thing to just say cause you see a jew but it's not really anti-semitic either. If you walk around in west jerusalem or even 'liberal' tel-aviv with a kaffiyeh for ten hours you'd probably get a lot more than 1:30 minutes of edited footage out of it. He got spit on twice and cursed out a few more times in addition to all the doubletakes. Tel Aviv being that racist is pretty sad but let's not pretend that's how you'd wanna spend the next few decades of your life.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:44
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If you make a list of countries in the world by numbers of Jews living in it, France gets third position. It's very important for Israel to attract as many Jews as possible, but Israel needs US support so it needs a strong Jewish vote in the USA so it cannot try to attract American Jews too much. So hyping the French antisemitism is a core part of the propaganda effort. With that video they demonstrated than by wandering around selected neighborhoods of Paris with a signe ostentatoire d'appartenance religieuse they could get insults and rudeness about 0.25% of the time.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:45
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