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ProperGanderPusher posted:We need a Mount Athos team for them to play against. The amount of resentment among the Esphigmenou monks alone would give them legendary endurance. They withdrew from involvement after the offside rule was introduced; none of this changing laws to suit the times nonsense
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Feb 13, 2015 21:21
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Let's just hire some Swiss, it's the simplest way to boost the roster.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:07
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I'm suddenly picturing an East-West Bowl with outlandish monastic names.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:21
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Keromaru5 posted:I'm suddenly picturing an East-West Bowl with outlandish monastic names. Holy cow that would be hilarious. For those not in the know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gODZzSOelss
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Feb 13, 2015 23:13
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Ms. Happiness posted:My church hosts Wednesday night suppers and church services. Recently we've had an influx of homeless people coming for supper and services, which I think is great and I'm so glad we can provide them a hot, delicious meal. Some of them have been asking various parishioners for money for rent, food, etc. Just recently, one guy approached me asking for around $140 for rent. As terrible as it sounds, I just hate giving money to people. My church had a person that church shop around town for people to give him money. Once he realized people weren't going to fork over money to him, he left to find some other church. I mean, I'm glad he was there....maybe he did find fulfillment but I just hate the feeling that he's taking advantage of the kindness of parishioners, if that makes sense? This was a big issue at the downtown cathedral I attended til 2008. Does your parish/diocese have a mission or other program for the homeless? It doesn't sound like they're homeless, but they could at least offset some of their costs? Is there a sheltered workshop program your parish/diocese is associated with? I know we've participate in one to help addicts get off the street and earning a little money. Goodwill gets a lot of crap from political liberal/progressives for their SW, but it's honestly standard for SWs and one of the bigger and more flexible ones out there. Plus they offer skill training. We work with a local group that does the same things. I'd ask around about other similar GW like programs. De Nomolos fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 20:24
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Episcopal and Orthodox goons: What are your Churchs' teachings on their teaching authority? Can they and when do they teach something, for lack of a better word, infallibly? Is a distinction made between doctrinal teaching such as the Trinity and Incarnation and moral teachings?
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Feb 16, 2015 03:22
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Episcopal and Orthodox goons: What are your Churchs' teachings on their teaching authority? Can they and when do they teach something, for lack of a better word, infallibly? Is a distinction made between doctrinal teaching such as the Trinity and Incarnation and moral teachings? Orthodoxy does not have infallibility. This is a big sticking point between Orthodox and Catholics because we believe that only Jesus was an infallible human. You have it backwards, the Trinity and Incarnation are dogma while moral teachings are doctrine. Doctrine flows from dogma. Dogma comes from the teachings of the Seven Ecumenical Councils and divine revelation.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:44
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Ms. Happiness posted:My church hosts Wednesday night suppers and church services. Recently we've had an influx of homeless people coming for supper and services, which I think is great and I'm so glad we can provide them a hot, delicious meal. Some of them have been asking various parishioners for money for rent, food, etc. Just recently, one guy approached me asking for around $140 for rent. As terrible as it sounds, I just hate giving money to people. My church had a person that church shop around town for people to give him money. Once he realized people weren't going to fork over money to him, he left to find some other church. I mean, I'm glad he was there....maybe he did find fulfillment but I just hate the feeling that he's taking advantage of the kindness of parishioners, if that makes sense? I've made mistakes giving money to people before. One poor guy at my church got quite a bit and since he fell off the wagon it went to booze or drugs. Thank God, he's clean now. These days, I'll buy food, clothes, but no cash. I try to use my best judgement on potential scammers, but if I'm scammed out of a meal, it's on them. I've actually had people refuse the meal after cash is demanded.
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Feb 16, 2015 14:54
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Smoking Crow posted:Orthodoxy does not have infallibility. This is a big sticking point between Orthodox and Catholics because we believe that only Jesus was an infallible human. You have it backwards, the Trinity and Incarnation are dogma while moral teachings are doctrine. Doctrine flows from dogma. Dogma comes from the teachings of the Seven Ecumenical Councils and divine revelation. But isn't a dogma by definition infallible?
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Feb 16, 2015 17:16
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My understanding was that the Orthodox Church as a whole infallibly transmits doctrine, but individuals can't--and can, in fact, get it dead wrong. Even saints, from what I've been led to believe, aren't always 100% correct.
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Feb 16, 2015 17:46
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Keromaru5 posted:My understanding was that the Orthodox Church as a whole infallibly transmits doctrine, but individuals can't--and can, in fact, get it dead wrong. Even saints, from what I've been led to believe, aren't always 100% correct. This is essentially what I'm getting at. The Catholic Church teaches that she can, at times, teach something which is infallible, or to put it another way, know exactly God's will in a situation. I'm wondering when or even if the Orthodox and Episcopal Churches make such a claim. What authority does each Church have to speak for God, and when does it exercise such an authority.
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Feb 16, 2015 17:54
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Keromaru5 posted:My understanding was that the Orthodox Church as a whole infallibly transmits doctrine, but individuals can't--and can, in fact, get it dead wrong. Sort of. Here is the quick and dirty answer: http://oca.org/questions/romancatholicism/infallibility quote:Even saints, from what I've been led to believe, aren't always 100% correct. Hell yeah they aren't 100% correct. After all, we have an entire category of saints that regularly transgressed one of the commandments (warrior saints), not to mention the completely contradictory arguments you get from any number of saints, or things like Chrysostom's antisemitism.
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Feb 16, 2015 18:05
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Thirteen Orphans posted:This is essentially what I'm getting at. The Catholic Church teaches that she can, at times, teach something which is infallible, or to put it another way, know exactly God's will in a situation. I'm wondering when or even if the Orthodox and Episcopal Churches make such a claim. What authority does each Church have to speak for God, and when does it exercise such an authority.
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Feb 16, 2015 18:40
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Episcopal and Orthodox goons: What are your Churchs' teachings on their teaching authority? Can they and when do they teach something, for lack of a better word, infallibly? Is a distinction made between doctrinal teaching such as the Trinity and Incarnation and moral teachings? Yeah, infallibility isn't a thing in the Anglican Communion. Doctrinal teachings are something for confirmation class and are in the background of worship and moral teachings, but it's not like you're confronted with it to root out heresies or something.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:52
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Why can't christians literally talk to snakes and heal on command?
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Feb 17, 2015 02:07
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Baron Porkface posted:Why can't christians literally talk to snakes and heal on command? I can.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:08
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Baron Porkface posted:Why can't christians literally talk to snakes and heal on command? It's against the rules to do it when you're watching. Sorry 
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Feb 17, 2015 02:34
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Baron Porkface posted:Why can't christians literally talk to snakes and heal on command? You'll have to at least buy me a drink before even thinking about snake talking.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:45
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Baron Porkface posted:Why can't christians literally talk to snakes and heal on command? Because once the apostles (who were able to perform miracles through Christ after Pentecost took place) established the church, there wasn't really a need for it anymore. That's the long and short of it anyway. Exorcists aren't doing much more than praying, and the "miracles" that the RCC count toward sainthood aren't really all that impressive comparatively speaking. fake edit: yes this is bait to talk about badass saint miracles.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:57
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Because once the apostles (who were able to perform miracles through Christ after Pentecost took place) established the church, there wasn't really a need for it anymore. I don't understand why establishing a church gets rid of the need for healing or universal language.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:02
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Baron Porkface posted:I don't understand why establishing a church gets rid of the need for healing or universal language. Pentecostals agree with you. Catholics et al seem to think that if it was good enough for Peter and company it should be good enough for you. 
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Feb 17, 2015 03:15
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Cythereal posted:Pentecostals agree with you. Catholics et al seem to think that if it was good enough for Peter and company it should be good enough for you. You're not familiar with the Charismatic movement, are you?
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Feb 17, 2015 03:49
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Seraphim of Sarov talked to bears. That beats snakes any day.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:10
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Thirteen Orphans posted:You're not familiar with the Charismatic movement, are you? I think that's what he meant by "Pentecostals." But yeah, the campus organization I used to be in had some of that. Not so much on my campus, but the national events got pretty noisy. Calls for healing, speaking in tongues, people getting "slain in the Spirit." Y'know, the usual. (The latter, AFAIK, is nowhere to be seen in the Bible, so it's pretty polarizing.)
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Feb 17, 2015 04:15
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AGirlWonder posted:I think that's what he meant by "Pentecostals." But yeah, the campus organization I used to be in had some of that. Not so much on my campus, but the national events got pretty noisy. Calls for healing, speaking in tongues, people getting "slain in the Spirit." Y'know, the usual. (The latter, AFAIK, is nowhere to be seen in the Bible, so it's pretty polarizing.) I guess I should have specified Catholic Charismatic movement. My first year in campus ministry was the senior year for a lot of Charismatic Catholics, so I'm pretty familiar with it in a Catholic context.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:25
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There was the announcement of Junipero Serra being canonized by Pope Francis recently. Just wanted to get an idea of how people feel about historical wrongs and sainthood. A lot of people seem to hold Serra to account for terrible conditions in the missions, so how can he become a saint while being not a great person? Is it just because God washed away any wrong doing because he was doing it for the right reasons? I don't really know a ton about this situation in particular but I would like to hear what this thread thinks.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:30
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Baron Porkface posted:I don't understand why establishing a church gets rid of the need for healing or universal language. It still happens, it's just that the apostles had more faith (the cause of miracles) because they had seen Jesus die and resurrect with their own eyes
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Feb 17, 2015 05:04
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Baron Porkface posted:Why can't christians literally talk to snakes and heal on command? What are you, a montanist?
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Feb 17, 2015 05:58
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Hey, Christians, why can't you move mountains if you believe in God so much? 
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Feb 17, 2015 11:29
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Episcopal and Orthodox goons: What are your Churchs' teachings on their teaching authority? Can they and when do they teach something, for lack of a better word, infallibly? Is a distinction made between doctrinal teaching such as the Trinity and Incarnation and moral teachings? XX. Of the Authority of the Church. The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: and yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to God's Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of Holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of Salvation. From the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion. Essentially the Anglican claims limited teaching authority and cannot teach anything contrary to Scripture or more importantly it cannot require any teaching to be followed as dogma which is not necessary to salvation. So for instance a priest may say that he believes St Mary was assumed into heaven, but may not teach that to his congregation as something required to be believed in order to be Anglican. All that said, there are plenty of Anglicans who defy the traditional boundaries of Anglican doctrine, which is one of the reasons for all the schisms over the past century.
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Feb 17, 2015 15:46
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I guess I should have specified Catholic Charismatic movement. My first year in campus ministry was the senior year for a lot of Charismatic Catholics, so I'm pretty familiar with it in a Catholic context. I'm pretty familiar with it, since I live near one of its birthplaces and know people involved with it. Some observations: 1) It's very much an outgrowth of the Church's post-Vatican II overtures to American Protestantism, especially the politically conservative nondenominational branches. This makes a lot of people uncomfortable, as they think the Church shouldn't be making overtures to people whose goals run directly contrary to those of the Church, such as increasing the power of the rich at the expense of the poor. 2) The emphasis on charismatic gifts makes a lot of people, myself included, very uncomfortable. Firstly, I believe that the exercise of those gifts in the context of worship is a vulgar public display of piety. Secondly, I think the emphasis on visually miraculous things distracts from the greatest of all miracles: the presence of Christ, physically and genuinely, in the Eucharist. 3) There's not a lot of silence at a charismatic service, which makes them not terribly friendly to people who find God in silences and stillness. There's a lot more emphasis on individual subjective religious/emotional experience, which some people like a lot but which others feel represents an elevation of individual feelings over communal worship. 4) There's an emphasis on the "personal relationship" with Christ, conceptualized along lines much closer to Evangelical Protestant articulations of the idea than what's historically been the language of the Church. Opinions are divided about whether this is just an articulation more suited to contemporary America or whether it's ultimately wrongheaded. On a more personal note, one particular service that I attended at a friend's behest featured announcements about both March for Life and volunteering the parish soup kitchen. People were a lot more keen on the former than the latter. Obviously these are the observations and reflections of someone who's very uneasy with the movement as I've seen it, and should be taken with the appropriate grain of salt.
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Feb 17, 2015 15:58
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Orthodox guys, I know a guy trying out Orthodoxy and the first day he showed up, he mentioned that the Orthodox faith is charismatic. I don't think this is true. What do you think?
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Feb 17, 2015 16:24
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My mom once visited a Charismatic Catholic church, run our former parish priest. If I remember correctly, she found the liturgy kind of dull, and the charismatics didn't feel terribly authentic.Smoking Crow posted:Orthodox guys, I know a guy trying out Orthodoxy and the first day he showed up, he mentioned that the Orthodox faith is charismatic. I don't think this is true. What do you think? Or maybe a "We felt like we were in Heaven" reaction similar to the prince of Kiev's ambassadors?
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Feb 17, 2015 16:38
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FowlTheOwl posted:There was the announcement of Junipero Serra being canonized by Pope Francis recently. Just wanted to get an idea of how people feel about historical wrongs and sainthood. A lot of people seem to hold Serra to account for terrible conditions in the missions, so how can he become a saint while being not a great person? Is it just because God washed away any wrong doing because he was doing it for the right reasons? I don't really know a ton about this situation in particular but I would like to hear what this thread thinks. Who holds him accountable for what? The California public schools I attended held him up as a hero for bringing architecture, agriculture, writing to the natives. Not to mention religion. Things went to poo poo when the missions were closed and the Americans moved in.
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Feb 17, 2015 16:50
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Worthleast posted:Who holds him accountable for what? The California public schools I attended held him up as a hero for bringing architecture, agriculture, writing to the natives. Not to mention religion. Pretty much the only Catholic priest that didn't mistreat the natives was Bartolomé de Las Casas. Junipero Serra forcibly destroyed Indian cultural practices. He also ran his missions as mini-fiefdoms where the Indians were used as slave labor to support Franciscans. He also used corporal punishment on Indians that refused to work. There is currently a debate among scholars over whether he destroyed Native culture in California or was better to the Indians than most Spanish governors and bishops (not a high bar to reach, all things considered). edit: Speaking of which, why isn't de Las Casas a saint yet get on that Catholics Not that we're any better, Chiune Sugihara and Damaskinos of Athens aren't saints Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 17:09
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Paladinus posted:Hey, Christians, why can't you move mountains if you believe in God so much? Because we don't need to. Got all that heavy lifting out of the way a long while back.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:37
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PantlessBadger posted:All that said, there are plenty of Anglicans who defy the traditional boundaries of Anglican doctrine, which is one of the reasons for all the schisms over the past century. Hey, we're Protestants, we'll schism because somebody brought the wrong kind of doughnuts to fellowship.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:50
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Hey, we're Protestants, we'll schism because somebody brought the wrong kind of doughnuts to fellowship. I've heard of a pastor being kicked out of his synod for holding a too-Catholicy fish fry.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:14
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Smoking Crow posted:Pretty much the only Catholic priest that didn't mistreat the natives was Bartolomé de Las Casas. Junipero Serra forcibly destroyed Indian cultural practices. He also ran his missions as mini-fiefdoms where the Indians were used as slave labor to support Franciscans. He also used corporal punishment on Indians that refused to work. There is currently a debate among scholars over whether he destroyed Native culture in California or was better to the Indians than most Spanish governors and bishops (not a high bar to reach, all things considered). Any reading on that? It's new to me.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:23
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Worthleast posted:Any reading on that? It's new to me. Here's an LA Times article about the controversy from when he was just getting beatified in the early 90s http://articles.latimes.com/1988-09-22/news/vw-3106_1_father-serra Here's a more recent New York Times article about it http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/22/us/to-some-indians-in-california-father-serra-is-far-from-a-saint.html?_r=0 I'm sorry it's all journalism, I don't want to post books Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 18:29
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