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DarkCrawler posted:disgusting hypocrites Why would they want to get away from people like you 
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Feb 17, 2015 18:12
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DarkCrawler posted:I don't think Jews from places like post-Holocause Europe, USSR or Arab states can be blamed for going to the only place available to them, when the choice is that or brutal oppression or even death. I think French or American Jews escaping antisemitism to Israel in year 2014 are disgusting hypocrites who will be less safe as the result of their choice. It's certainly not a similar situation by any metric and shouldn't be presented as such. The groups that try to recruit first-world Jews to populate settlements in the West Bank are particularly disgusting, in my opinion. I don't have a particular problem with Jews deciding they want to live in Tel Aviv for whatever reason, but moving to Israel to purposefully reinforce Israeli presence in the occupied territories is disgusting.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:12
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unpacked robinhood posted:Why would they want to get away from people like you I don't think they want to get away from people like me? I'm the one wanting them to stay. PT6A posted:The groups that try to recruit first-world Jews to populate settlements in the West Bank are particularly disgusting, in my opinion. I don't have a particular problem with Jews deciding they want to live in Tel Aviv for whatever reason, but moving to Israel to purposefully reinforce Israeli presence in the occupied territories is disgusting. Arab citizens of Israel face more discrimination in Israel then any Jews in Europe. Except that discrimination is legally codified and sanctioned by the state. http://m.imgur.com/gallery/L86hXg4 Israel doesn't need West Bank to be an apartheid state. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 18:19
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DarkCrawler posted:Arab citizens of Israel face more discrimination in Israel then any Jews in Europe. Except that discrimination is legally codified and sanctioned by the state. That's true, but presumably moderate olim could actually sway the public discourse away from that sort of thing. The entire world should want more moderate Jews in Israel, because the current strategy of attracting just the most imperialistic and religious Jews possible is really not helping the situation.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:21
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PT6A posted:That's true, but presumably moderate olim could actually sway the public discourse away from that sort of thing. The entire world should want more moderate Jews in Israel, because the current strategy of attracting just the most imperialistic and religious Jews possible is really not helping the situation. Why would a moderate Jew want to move to Israel? That's like asking for moderate whites to immigrate to South Africa or Southern US under Jim Crow or Australia under White Australia to change it from the inside, none of which happened. That is just participating in and supporting a race-based immigration system. I think the change needs to come from the actual people living and born in the country, either though their own attitudes or outside pressure which is how previous such instances were solved. Refusal of most of the world's Jews to move to Israel is the strongest statement about what a lovely place it is that anyone can make. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 18:29
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SedanChair posted:Correct, there didn't appear to be any reason for him to fear for his safety. If people I passed on the street were willing to spit on me I would sure as poo poo fear for my safety, and so would you.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:32
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Interesting and very long article about the Islamic State: http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ Part of it speculates that they won't be nearly as dangerous to the western world as Al Qaeda.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:33
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Smudgie Buggler posted:If people I passed on the street were willing to spit on me I would sure as poo poo fear for my safety, and so would you. Hell no, that's just your racism acting up.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:34
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Smudgie Buggler posted:If people I passed on the street were willing to spit on me I would sure as poo poo fear for my safety, and so would you. That was just in broad daylight. I imagine walking in the areas after dark would be bordering on insanity.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:35
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Smudgie Buggler posted:If people I passed on the street were willing to spit on me I would sure as poo poo fear for my safety, and so would you. The numbers don't seem to bear it out, especially compared to attacks on women (a comparison the video explicitly invites).
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Feb 17, 2015 18:55
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Smudgie Buggler posted:If people I passed on the street were willing to spit on me I would sure as poo poo fear for my safety, and so would you. regular middle-class white people get spat on in parts of paris, at least i did e. to clarify, i'm more with you than with sedanchair here, but a lot of the stuff in that film is pretty weak for ten hours of walking around, if he went to the more afflicted areas of the city
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Feb 17, 2015 18:58
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SedanChair posted:The numbers don't seem to bear it out, especially compared to attacks on women (a comparison the video explicitly invites). Yeah fucken Jews getting spat on should shut up because The Patriarchy is worse. He only had reason to fear for his safety a few times so he's really just a pussy. You idiot. You recalcitrant child. No matter how much worse it might be for any other group (and I'm certainly not about to deny that women encounter daily reasons to fear for their safety while walking around cities), anybody being spat on because they're exhibiting signs of belonging to an ethnoreligious group has every loving right to be upset about that. You are utterly determined to downplay the demonstrable fact that antisemitism presents a clear threat to the safety of anybody daring to be openly Jewish in parts of Europe today. gently caress you. Smudgie Buggler fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 19:30
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Yeah fucken Jews getting spat on should shut up because The Patriarchy is worse. Where is even the evidence that he was spat on for being Jewish? Oh and you certainly have denied and minimized women's experience by characterizing the copied video as a woman "getting told that she had nice legs" instead of being stalked and catcalled about 100 times.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:33
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spitting is a way to distract you so the spitter's mate can try and pick your pocket, you see. i learned this when someone tried to nick my kindle, which was partially protruding from my pocket (happily, he didn't get a grip on it before I spotted him and moved my arm to cover it) this, of course, does not at all excuse the act, or the other unquestionably antisemitic stuff that dude got exposed to on his jaunt through town (in fact, I'd say that spitting on the ground behind him, which is what I thought happened, is more indicative of disgust, and therefore more clearly antisemitic imo)
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Feb 17, 2015 19:33
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To be honest this lovely video by a lovely pro-settler news outlet doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know, to those who forgot, about a month ago a man by the name of Amedy Coulibaly murdered four jews in Paris due to his murderous anti-semitism. This video doesn't bring anything new to the table.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:34
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SedanChair posted:Where is even the evidence that he was spat on for being Jewish? Would you ever ask where is the evidence to suggest Deah Barakat, and Yusor and Razan Mohammed being Muslims had anything to do with their getting shot? No. Nor should you. Fuuuuuuuuuck you.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:40
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emanresu tnuocca posted:To be honest this lovely video by a lovely pro-settler news outlet doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know, to those who forgot, about a month ago a man by the name of Amedy Coulibaly murdered four jews in Paris due to his murderous anti-semitism. This video doesn't bring anything new to the table. Yet still, for some reason, many are determined to ignore that it has never been the case that you can live openly as a Jew without being hassled and abused for it in large swathes of Europe.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:42
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Would you ever ask where is the evidence to suggest Deah Barakat, and Yusor and Razan Mohammed being Muslims had anything to do with their getting shot? You're correct, I am more skeptical because of the source.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:44
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SedanChair posted:You're correct, I am more skeptical because of the source. dude, seriously, knock it off
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Feb 17, 2015 19:45
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Yet still, for some reason, many are determined to ignore that it has never been the case that you can live openly as a Jew without being hassled and abused for it in large swathes of Europe. You can't live as any visible minority anywhere without being hassled and abused for it. Jews aren't a special case.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:46
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DarkCrawler posted:I don't think they want to get away from people like me? I'm the one wanting them to stay. DarkCrawler posted:You can't live as any visible minority anywhere without being hassled and abused for it. Jews aren't a special case.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:51
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Well, at least they're in the enviable position of having a job where failing to do it can often mean more funding/power. Watch the government implement the same useless, expensive session logging they dismantled less than six months ago, this time with location data. This time the trillions and trillions of data points will definitely serve to convict more than one person of fraud over the course of seven years.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:55
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Cingulate posted:You want them to not go to Israel. I don't want them to go to a horrible lovely country. I don't think that's a bad thing. Cingulate posted:By a bunch of measures, Jews are very special. (On the other hand, every form of oppression is special, and every form of oppression is the same.) Well yes, but they are not special in that they currently face discrimination.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:06
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V. Illych L. posted:dude, seriously, knock it off The Daily Mail and New York Post are already running with it.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:08
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Good, maybe white people will actually start caring about racism and xenophobia (of which antisemitism is a part)
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Feb 17, 2015 20:09
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Smudgie Buggler posted:because they're exhibiting signs of belonging to an ethnoreligious group has every loving right to be upset about that. Here's a novel thought. There should be no such thing as "ethnoreligious" groups. The only reason that term means anything is because for thousands of years people have been indoctrinating children into their wacky belief systems because they know if the child is left to just decide for themselves, they'll see through the nonsense.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:25
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V. Illych L. posted:Good, maybe white people will actually start caring about racism and xenophobia (of which antisemitism is a part) Stop caring about the wrong oppression! Jews are white and The Bad Guys at least until 2040, a decade after Israel collapses and a Tea Party President uses Jews as scapegoats for the evils of the financial sector. Absoloote posted:Here's a novel thought. There should be no such thing as "ethnoreligious" groups. The only reason that term means anything is because for thousands of years [citation needed]
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Feb 17, 2015 20:31
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V. Illych L. posted:Good, maybe white people will actually start caring about racism and xenophobia (of which antisemitism is a part) It's a real problem, but I'm concerned that it will be used primarily to further demonize poor Muslims in France.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:32
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SedanChair posted:It's a real problem, but I'm concerned that it will be used primarily to further demonize poor Muslims in France. Of course it is, because everything is poo poo, but you should seriously not start apologising for antisemitism for all that. Marg bar Israel and everything, but leave the jews out of it (even the pricks, who can be shat on for being pricks, but not jewish pricks)
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Feb 17, 2015 20:36
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Absoloote posted:Here's a novel thought. There should be no such thing as "ethnoreligious" groups. The only reason that term means anything is because for thousands of years Hmm, this seems somewhat antisemitic to me.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:39
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Absurd Alhazred posted:
Not really. It's pretty clear when you look around the world that in countries and cultures where you're free to choose your religious beliefs (e.g most of western europe), a lot fewer people are religious. That's not even specific to religion, I think you'll probably find the same with all kinds of authoritarian belief systems. The countries that didn't have communism forced into their education systems......people were a lot less likely to be communist. Imagine that!
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Feb 17, 2015 20:42
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Absoloote posted:Not really. It's pretty clear when you look around the world that in countries and cultures where you're free to choose your religious beliefs (e.g most of western europe), a lot fewer people are religious. Do you think that religious beliefs are compelled in the USA?
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Feb 17, 2015 20:43
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Absoloote posted:Here's a novel thought. There should be no such thing as "ethnoreligious" groups. The only reason that term means anything is because for thousands of years You do realize you've just said that anti-semitism is to be blamed on Jews cause they raise their children Jewish? I mean, whatever, it's not like Jews haven't tried to be jewish without flaunting it in the past, at that point Christians and Muslims would often require them to wear special hats or badges lest they frateranize with the general population too much.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:44
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Effectronica posted:Hmm, this seems somewhat antisemitic to me. Well judaism seems to take beliefs a lot less seriously than christianity and islam. That comment is specifically regarding forcing beliefs on children. I'd separate that from cultural practices, which is largely what modern Judaism is about. Which is why the term "jewish atheist" makes sense but "christian atheist" doesn't.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:45
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emanresu tnuocca posted:You do realize you've just said that anti-semitism is to be blamed on Jews cause they raise their children Jewish? There's a difference between me saying something and you inferring it.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:46
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Absoloote posted:Well judaism seems to take beliefs a lot less seriously than christianity and islam. That comment is specifically regarding forcing beliefs on children. I'd separate that from cultural practices, which is largely what modern Judaism is about. Which is why the term "jewish atheist" makes sense but "christian atheist" doesn't. Hmm, this seems exceptionally idiotic to me.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:47
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The execution thread has nearly every poster pulling out every thing an atheist has said negatively about religion. I really have to wonder why these same posters aren't pulling out every radical thing an Imam has ever said? Why is it ok here to call attacks against Jews insignificant because they are rarer than lightning strikes, yet a similar statement about any other minority group would have been pounced on? I honestly wonder what I am missing, because the hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty between how similar events are discussed seems really obvious. I used to roll my eyes and the claims of anti-semitism in the Israel threads, but when the same posters are handwaving away attacks on synagogues it makes most thinking people take a step back.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:50
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Absoloote posted:There's a difference between me saying something and you inferring it. No, that's what you said, you're just apparently rather uninformed about the history of the Jewish people that you don't understand you've said it.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:53
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tsa posted:The execution thread has nearly every poster pulling out every thing an atheist has said negatively about religion. I really have to wonder why these same posters aren't pulling out every radical thing an Imam has ever said? Why is it ok here to call attacks against Jews insignificant because they are rarer than lightning strikes, yet a similar statement about any other minority group would have been pounced on? Actually, I think that if you had people claiming that Muslims should emigrate from America because of hate crimes, you would see the exact same sort of thing happening, only without so many people leering, erect at the thought of calling everyone in the forum antisemites.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:55
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Arkane posted:Part of it speculates that they won't be nearly as dangerous to the western world as Al Qaeda. the big mistake the IS made is in claiming turf out in the open, like planting a flag and declaring it theirs terrorist groups can and should leverage their secrecy as protection. it's the single biggest advantage they have. when you're small and undergunned, you don't have the resources to defend anything. if your enemies discover one of your caches or safehouses you bail out and let them take it once you establish a caliphate, which necessitates territory, you're giving your enemies a big fat target they can attack to diminish your power and resources because IS is trying to operate like a nation-state they are naturally approaching their adversaries on their terms. they're destined to lose this fight, unless they get some big powerful backer that can hook them up with the modern weaponry and support needed to fight on even terms. since nobody's lining up to give the IS sophisticated big boy weapons they're doomed boner confessor fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 20:57
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