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If you're concerned about the protagonist disregarding authority I don't know why you would watch anything with Marvel in the front of it.
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Feb 14, 2015 21:39
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LesterGroans posted:Nah, it's pretty easy. People root for bad guys all the time. House, Jack Bauer, The "Americans" from The Americans. It's fun. Fair enough. I can accept Peggy going rouge.
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Feb 14, 2015 21:44
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In AoS news, they've made Adrianne Palicki a full time regular for the rest of the season: http://deadline.com/2015/02/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-adrianne-palicki-series-regular-bobbi-morse-mockingbird-1201373814/
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Feb 14, 2015 23:54
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GLOSS posted:In AoS news, they've made Adrianne Palicki a full time regular for the rest of the season: I can't put my finger exactly on why, but she doesn't seem as.. grounded? Grounded is the wrong word probably.. well, as much as the rest of the cast. I don't know. There's something about her that's almost uncanny valley. I think she'd make a fantastic android. But it's just like something that doesn't click with everyone else, you know? Am I alone on this? I've got nothing against her really and think she's had some really cool actions sequences and even that her character has potential. I'm not sure what it is.. it almost feels like she belongs on a slightly different show.
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Feb 15, 2015 00:03
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BrianWilly posted:I just found out that Agent Carter actually gets the same ratings as The Flash. Ask Barry Convex or Dan Didio about it! I'm sure they know the factual truth about it.  Boru posted:I'm shocked no one as outraged as I that Adam "MCA" Yauch's grandfather got brainwashed to walk into traffic. A tragic start for a Beastie Boy. If it's not somebody from GWAR, I don't care, bruh. No. Sleep. Till Flab Quarv 7. Or... was it 6? Blazing Ownager posted:I can't put my finger exactly on why, but she doesn't seem as.. grounded? Grounded is the wrong word probably.. well, as much as the rest of the cast. She's an established B-lister in the comics with powers (a mixture of Fury's Infinity Formula, and the Super Soldier Serum) as opposed to the rest of the cast, who are D-listers at absolute best, with the possible exception of Agent Daisy Poots and Coulson. She does seem a little out of place on this show at this point. Wait till the Inhumans are stinking the place up more, or the writers fix the "new character syndrome."
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Feb 15, 2015 00:33
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Ask Barry Convex or Dan Didio about it! I'm sure they know the factual truth about it. Oh, give me a break. CW has much lower standards for ratings than a major network like ABC; this isn't even remotely controversial. quote:she's an established B-lister in the comics with powers (a mixture of Fury's Infinity Formula, and the Super Soldier Serum) as opposed to the rest of the cast, who are D-listers at absolute best, with the possible exception of Agent Daisy Poots and Coulson. She does seem a little out of place on this show at this point. Wait till the Inhumans are stinking the place up more, or the writers fix the "new character syndrome." The powers were only something Bendis added in the last couple years, and I think more recent writers like Ales Kot may have ignored that? I'm not sure.
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Feb 15, 2015 02:41
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Irish Joe posted:Fair enough. I can accept Peggy going rouge. Women and their makeup, imirite fellas
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Feb 15, 2015 03:37
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For a show I only watch drunk with my sister this poo poo is INTENSE gently caress that russian spy bitch, gently caress howard stark, gently caress everything except british chicks beating the poo poo out of fedora-wearing douchebags God bless television
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Feb 15, 2015 06:05
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Vengarr posted:For a show I only watch drunk with my sister this poo poo is INTENSE Wait wait wait... I don't remember a fedora.
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Feb 15, 2015 06:09
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Dalael posted:Wait wait wait... That Vince McMahon looking motherfucker wears a fedora every episode It's like his head was made to house a fedora on top
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Feb 15, 2015 06:15
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bobkatt013 posted:You mean like when she told them exactly how Howard was robbed and they basically told her just go investigate to get her out of their hair? I thought that was because the head honcho had realized at this point that her hunches were probably worth pursuing because she had talent and insight and poo poo. Rather than just because she was kind of loving up the interrogation of the Soviet hypnotist. Which she was. Just because she's a victim of sexism doesn't mean she's perfect.
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Feb 15, 2015 08:49
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Well I mean, she was "loving up the interrogation" in the sense that she wasn't asking the questions that her boss wanted to ask, but she wasn't asking the wrong questions. Like, her questions were the questions that her boss should've been asking because her theory was objectively correct.
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Feb 15, 2015 12:10
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That's something she should have brought up with her boss another time rather than interrupting him mid-sentence constantly. I don't think he'd have taken that from a male employee either.
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Feb 15, 2015 23:23
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Barry Convex posted:The powers were only something Bendis added in the last couple years, and I think more recent writers like Ales Kot may have ignored that? I'm not sure. Recent powers or not, she's Hawkeye's future wife and a founding member of the West Coast Avengers, so right now Mockingbird is the heaviest hitter on the team, at least until Daisy starts getting a handle on her new powers.
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Feb 16, 2015 02:12
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I assumed that her relationship with Hunter was the MCU version of her relationship with Hawkguy.
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Feb 16, 2015 02:38
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Really enjoying AC, and in most respects it's head and shoulders above the majority of SHIELD S1, but it's frustrating that the creators have basically repeated one of the main mistakes of that show's pre-TWS episodes: namely, that the main overarching antagonist isn't an individual character, but rather an evil organization so vague, shadowy, and mysterious that we're left without any clear sense of the dramatic stakes in the conflict. As a result, the narrative momentum just isn't what it should be, and SHIELD at least had having to write around the TWS reveal as an excuse.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:54
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That overarching fear was pretty much what the Cold War was all about. It was a nebulous sense of dread of 'us' versus 'them'. I'm in my 50s and I clearly remember the 'enemy' being a faceless entity.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:13
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Thing about Adrianne Palicki is, I've seen the Wonder Woman pilot and she's terrible in it. Just flat-out garbage. Now, a lot of that has to do with the absolutely batshit writing involved, of course, but it just was not a good performance. AoS is a much better fit, and she's become one of my favorite characters despite knowing absolutely nothing about Bobbi Morse or Mockingbird from the comics.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:23
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:That overarching fear was pretty much what the Cold War was all about. It was a nebulous sense of dread of 'us' versus 'them'. I'm in my 50s and I clearly remember the 'enemy' being a faceless entity. But it isn't really translating onto the screen, is the problem. Leviathan is the big bad of the arc, but we've seen relatively little from them. It was the same problem with the Centipede thing. They never really defined who or what Centipede was, which meant the entire first part of the season was them find tiny bits and pieces of info, until the HYDRA reveal. With Leviathan, its like, ok, so they have some mutes they made? From guys who faked their deaths? Or assumed fake identities of dead men? And they forced some people to volunteer, or all? We don't know! And they are training little girls to be assassin murderers for general reasons. They want Stark's technology for reasons, and they probably want Cap's blood to make their own super soldier for reasons. The arc is nearly over and I don't really know Leviathan's motivations for anything outside of them being generic bad guys from the USSR. At this point I feel like LOST kind of ruined television. It seems a lot of people writing TV today do not understand why that kind of mystery loaded storytelling worked for LOST and doesn't work for other shows. LOST worked because the stakes were high. Will they go home? Who will survive? WTF is going on with the island? Why did they crash? Who are the other people on the island? Game of Thrones is another decent example. They have mysteries, but what is at stake is the future. It was established early. It's looming over the horizon and at any moment an important character might die for reasons completely unrelated to the impending doom. ' With AC, it's like, ok so if they get Stark's stuff, then what? World domination? When? What's the goal? HYDRA had a clear gameplan and reasoning behind their evilness. Why is Leviathan doing it? What kind of resources do they have to make it happen? How big is Leviathan? We know nothing, which makes the threat level a big fat question mark. AoS suffered from the same problem with centipede. Ok so they make weird pseudo super soldiers with the modded Extremis thing. And? Why wouldn't the Avengers and SHIELD just clean it up? The centipede dudes didn't seem that overpowered. The threat level was a big question mark because nothing was really explained until the HYDRA reveal. Season 2 has been better since they've been dealing with HYDRA specifically, trying to crack the alien code, and then racing to the temple, as well as fighting over the crystal.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:45
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Really? Maybe it's me growing up in the Cold War that I see all the paranoia from my childhood. My next door neighbors had a fallout shelter in their backyard and I remember them showing it to my family when I was like five. It freaked me out that there was some group that wanted to kill us all.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:00
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You should try some Cold War propaganda and paranoia. Just because you don't get it doesn't mean others don't.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:37
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You're absolutely right! Because The Cold War happened, anyone who tells a story set during the period literally does not have to actually do any leg work to make a narrative resonate with an audience! It literally writes itself! Just flash a year on the screen and have people dress appropriately and all the tension is beamed directly into their brains. Also, Agent Carter is based on real events!
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Feb 17, 2015 20:43
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It resonated with me well enough and I'm its audience. ToastyPotato, your suggestion was right on the mark!
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Feb 17, 2015 20:53
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:It resonated with me well enough and I'm its audience. ToastyPotato, your suggestion was right on the mark! Does ABC pay you to stay alive? I mean an entire series costing millions of dollars to please one person seems like a pretty risky business practice, so I am guessing they have invested quite a bit in you at this point.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:56
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ToastyPotato posted:But it isn't really translating onto the screen, is the problem. Leviathan is the big bad of the arc, but we've seen relatively little from them. It was the same problem with the Centipede thing. They never really defined who or what Centipede was, which meant the entire first part of the season was them find tiny bits and pieces of info, until the HYDRA reveal. Are you seriously using LOST as an example of good writing with a solid outline of the plot?
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Feb 17, 2015 21:33
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I remember living with Cold War paranoia and I'm in my early 30's. Why, when I was your age, music came on these things called "CDs" and they had to be listened to sequentially, making a playlist was simply beyond most people's technological ability unless one was willing to downgrade to a "cassette tape." And, of course, we had to walk uphill both ways barefoot in the snow to buy one, at a physical storefront.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:36
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Hobohemian posted:Are you seriously using LOST as an example of good writing with a solid outline of the plot? Not the best or anything, because it had tons of bad stuff along the way (and at the end, dear lord), but it kept audiences engaged almost the whole way through and was generally well received by a fairly decent sized audience, or are you seriously saying LOST was a complete failure of television that everyone hated?
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Feb 17, 2015 21:36
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Lost was okay, but it made the cardinal sin of not wrapping everything up the way that the Average Joe was expecting it to. See: The Matrix Revolutions, Mass Effect 3, Battlestar Galactica, Contact. Deviation from acceptable formulae will be punished in the court of popular opinion.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:42
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Lost was okay, but it made the cardinal sin of not wrapping everything up the way that the Average Joe was expecting it to. My big issue was that LOST ended kind of weak. Not the Church part, that was fine, I am talking about the island stuff in general. I really felt like the explanations given were weak and kind of thrown together too quickly, and it didn't really feel very satisfying to me because it felt so rushed. I didn't mind the weirdness or the mythology of it all, I actually really dug it, but it felt so thin and rushed that it was hard to enjoy it. It didn't feel as developed as the other stuff. Outside of that, my only problem with the show was the pacing of season 3, but the writers admit fully what went wrong there.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:48
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ToastyPotato posted:But it isn't really translating onto the screen, is the problem. Leviathan is the big bad of the arc, but we've seen relatively little from them. It was the same problem with the Centipede thing. They never really defined who or what Centipede was, which meant the entire first part of the season was them find tiny bits and pieces of info, until the HYDRA reveal. I agree with almost all of this. Also, I hated, hated, hated the church twist with a passion, and still do. The island part of the ending was less disappointing, even if the stakes were muddled as gently caress.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:59
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Barry Convex posted:I agree with almost all of this. I can totally get why the church ending rubbed people the wrong way. Personally, it almost didn't feel earned by that point, due to the clusterfuck that preceded it in that season. The last season felt like 2 seasons worth of stuff jammed into one.
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Feb 17, 2015 22:04
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I expect some kind of big revelation in tonight or next weeks episode that will explain why what has been going on matters. For all we know, Leviathan is the name of the project to create the Winter Soldier.
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Feb 17, 2015 22:14
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twistedmentat posted:I expect some kind of big revelation in tonight or next weeks episode that will explain why what has been going on matters. For all we know, Leviathan is the name of the project to create the Winter Soldier. That's an excellent guess. We'll see pretty soon either way.
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Feb 17, 2015 22:23
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ToastyPotato posted:Does ABC pay you to stay alive? I mean an entire series costing millions of dollars to please one person seems like a pretty risky business practice, so I am guessing they have invested quite a bit in you at this point. Well gee, I don't think so? It would be awfully nice of them if they did, but I wasn't the only person born my year (or the year before or the year after) I imagine. I'm also pretty certain I'm not the only one that watches TV from my generation. I may also not be the only person that understands Cold War politics from my generation or even the generations after mine.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:11
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Well gee, I don't think so? It would be awfully nice of them if they did, but I wasn't the only person born my year (or the year before or the year after) I imagine. I'm also pretty certain I'm not the only one that watches TV from my generation. I may also not be the only person that understands Cold War politics from my generation or even the generations after mine. You might not also be representative of every single human being from your generation. Well golly, fancy that! Different people having different opinions! Or were opinions not invented back then? What a time to be alive.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:26
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ToastyPotato posted:You might not also be representative of every single human being from your generation. Well golly, fancy that! Different people having different opinions! Or were opinions not invented back then? What a time to be alive. I don't even understand your point anymore, because if you are arguing this then you are invalidating your own original statement and we are in some circular ouroboros of garbage argument adding nothing. Which tends to happen a lot with the goofy arguments in this thread. mikeraskol fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 23:27
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mikeraskol posted:I don't even understand your point anymore. My original point was simply that AC would have benefited a bit from having more clearly developed antagonists and by setting the stakes more clearly, earlier on, since it is such a short series. It is a pretty basic criticism based on basic story telling technique. Nothing provocative. Somehow a couple of people wanted to insinuate that living through the Cold War IRL was some how relevant to my criticism of a fictional show in which fictional organizations fight over science fiction technology in 1946. And that living under the stress of M.A.D. makes AC an automatically better written show or something. I don't know. The best thing to do in these cases is to just read the original post that set people off on their tangents, since these dumb arguments tend to happen because people can't read well or do not know how to articulate any kind of coherent, relevant response.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:34
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I brought it up because of your insistance that... 'ToastyPotato posted:But it isn't really translating onto the screen, is the problem. Leviathan is the big bad of the arc, but we've seen relatively little from them. It was/is translating to the screen. You just couldn't see it for some reason. Why? I don't know, maybe personal experience, but it was very clear to me.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:10
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Leviathan isn't the major antagonist. The show has clearly been setting up a reveal that the US government was doing some shady poo poo in Finael.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:40
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:I brought it up because of your insistance that... ' And again, your personal experience with a real world event than tons of people also lived through doesn't really seem relevant to the almost completely fictional, comic book based TV series we are discussing. I mean, great, you think its fine, I mean, if you would actually like to elaborate on it other than saying "I REMEMBER THE COLD WAR" then that would be pretty cool. I think I kind of elaborated on my opinion of things pretty thoroughly. Insinuating that I am too young or too uneducated to understand the deep complexities of a show about sci-fi super weapons from WW2 is kind of dumb though, especially when you don't know how old I am and I don't know how old you are (not that it actually matters in any way.) Narcissus1916 posted:Leviathan isn't the major antagonist. That is a possibility, yes. But the first several episodes made a pretty big deal about finding out who messed with Stark and set him up, which is fine as a mystery except the series is almost over and what we have is a possible conspiracy within the government (which is fine) and Leviathan, which we know almost nothing about despite having been around for nearly half the series already. Obviously, I would hope it all gets wrapped up in the next couple of episodes, but, like I said, the show probably could have benefited from a more clear cut narrative beyond "Somebody" is messing with Stark for "some reason!" Obviously, I am enjoying the show or I would have dropped it, I am just saying they could have made it a bit more interesting. The Leviathan stuff is actually pretty neat, but its taken the whole series just to get where we are now, which is not very far, and the potential conspiracy, which is also interesting, is something that has played for even less screen time. Movies have told complicated espionage stories with far shorter run times than this 8 part series, so there really isn't too much of an excuse there.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:49
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