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In Dragonball all things are canon. And nothing is without canon. It is only the manner in which it is canon that is up for debate.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:36
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Esroc posted:In Dragonball all things are canon. And nothing is without canon. It is only the manner in which it is canon that is up for debate. So, the multiverse route?  I mean even before Beerus explicitly stated there was a multiverse, you already had like, 4 different timelines introduced with the Androids. Obviously the movies and games and spinoffs and whatnot all could take place in their own little universes/timelines (including the older Dragon Ball ones, for that matter). Also Freeza's title is obviously "Lord Emperor Business" ("Lord Freeza" for short). StrifeHira fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 03:46
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New Leaf posted:I understand this sentiment, but everything can't be shrugged off with that argument. There has to be separate established canon, the anime canon and the manga canon, so the question is still valid as far as the anime is concerned. That said, I'd wager that far more people have seen the anime than the manga. The people making the anime or dub just cocked up. That's the answer to basically every problem any adaption raises that isn't present in the original. You can try and think of rationalizations but it's problems that shouldn't exist in the first place.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:52
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-Fish- posted:Cross-posting from the 13th Age thread. If any of you guys play the 13th Age tabletop RPG I've written some DBZ material for it. I worry a bit about the Sayian racial since, while rarely, it gives +12 to attack rolls which seems awfully high. Even before then, the bonus does get a little big, doesn't it? I also feel the Notable Human race may be a bit strong in comparison to the other races.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:52
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Dragonball is somewhat unique in that not only does it contain a multiverse, but it also contains independent parallel timelines within' each 'verse. So each of the twelve universes can have within them an infinite number of variations of themselves. Trunks' shenanigans do not create multiverses, rather he splinters the seventh universe into at least four different variations of itself. Thus we are given a wide range for which we can insert the various canons. The manga is the prime universe from the viewers perspective. The television show is a splintered timeline where events happen, but with minor differences. What-if scenarios in games, up to and including Online and Xv, the movies, OVA's, and specials, all take place within splintered timelines nested within themselves within the seventh universe. In fact it is likely the the other 11 universe are radically different from the seventh and they are not all copies of each other with minor differences as we are used to in American comics. I would be willing to bet Toriyama meant it to be more like there are twelve different planes of reality and characters from the seventh universe do not exist outside it. However, this is just conjecture. But if true it will mean that all Dragonball canon revealed thus far is not a multiverse, but splintered timelines nested within other splintered timelines. Turtles all the way down. GT is a timeline where Beerus never came to Earth for whatever reason and his absence caused all of reality to implode.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:08
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Covok posted:I worry a bit about the Sayian racial since, while rarely, it gives +12 to attack rolls which seems awfully high. Even before then, the bonus does get a little big, doesn't it? I also feel the Notable Human race may be a bit strong in comparison to the other races. It's a big bonus but it makes combat much more high risk/high reward for the Saiyan player. Since they only get the bonus while staggered they'll be tempted to STAY staggered, but by doing so they run the risk of a couple good hits taking them out. I like dangling incentives for declining healing and living dangerously.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:09
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WickedHate posted:The people making the anime or dub just cocked up. That's the answer to basically every problem any adaption raises that isn't present in the original. You can try and think of rationalizations but it's problems that shouldn't exist in the first place. It may not have existed in the paper, but it exists in video. It's established now, one way or another. That's always been my argument against canon fights, and I stand by it. I know most would disagree, but it's not really worth arguing about. Just how I like to watch. All I know is the anime, so I stand by the anime.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:21
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So, why is it four timelines with future Trunks again? Can't you explain the story with three? It seems like the altered timeline, living future Trunks's timeline, and third timeline where future Trunks killed the androids but then was killed by Cell kinda wraps everything up. Am I just not seeing something obvious? 
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Feb 18, 2015 04:28
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Zwingley posted:So, why is it four timelines with future Trunks again? Can't you explain the story with three? It seems like the altered timeline, living future Trunks's timeline, and third timeline where future Trunks killed the androids but then was killed by Cell kinda wraps everything up. Am I just not seeing something obvious? There's a Timeline where nobody came back, a timeline where Trunks came back but cell never came back (never shown but a necessity for the next timeline to exist), a timeline where Trunks came back, got the blueprints and returned home to be killed by Cell, and the timeline that the Future Trunks that hangs out in the Cell Saga came from. The second one is necessary because the Trunks that Cell killed came back from another timeline where he helped the team stop the Androids but Cell never showed up.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:29
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There's Present A, which we know, Future A, which Trunks is from, Future B, which Cell is from, and Present B, which is never shown but is where Trunks from Future B goes and helps stop the androids.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:33
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Trunks is kind of amazing in that "kills Cell" and "kills Freeza" is on his resume, which means he probably has more agency in the material than Vegeta... and he is still managed to be entirely useless. It's really telling to me whenever they put Trunks in a DBZ game, they have to give him a bunch of moves that either a.) entirely miss, and he never does it again or b.) kill a main villain from the series. It's so jarring. I will say it's pretty cool that the movements and names of all his attacks are something a lonely 16 yo would make up probably practicing in the mirror, so very in-character there. Speaking of the games being whacky, was there ever a reason for Radditz's attacks being named after days of the week? E: Oh, on Xenoverse - Freeza Race's attack strings are really cool. They look very Muay Thai-ish? Lots of elbows and knees, and some cool tail attacks. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 04:37
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Firstborn posted:Speaking of the games being whacky, was there ever a reason for Radditz's attacks being named after days of the week? Toryiama likes puns and naming conventions.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:38
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Covok posted:Toryiama likes puns and naming conventions. Yes, that is true, but ... it's never named in the anime or the manga, right? It's funny because Dimps uses the days of the week, but Spike uses his literal quotes for the attacks like "here comes the birdie", or just "full power energy wave". Same with Nappa... Dimps calls Nappa's little two finger explosion like "Bomber DX" or some garbage, and Spike uses the equally stupid name "Energy Volcano" or something. I'm just wondering if there is any reason.. any hint of a reason.. why days of the week make sense for Radditz.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:39
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I personally liked "keep your eye on the birdy"
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Feb 18, 2015 04:40
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Firstborn posted:Trunks is kind of amazing in that "kills Cell" and "kills Freeza" is on his resume, which means he probably has more agency in the material than Vegeta... and he is still managed to be entirely useless. It's really telling to me whenever they put Trunks in a DBZ game, they have to give him a bunch of moves that either a.) entirely miss, and he never does it again or b.) kill a main villain from the series. It's so jarring. I will say it's pretty cool that the movements and names of all his attacks are something a lonely 16 yo would make up probably practicing in the mirror, so very in-character there. Technically, Krillin has "kills Cell" on his resume too..
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Feb 18, 2015 04:41
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One thing I was worried about with Xenoverse is watching ranked fighting footage and there is a lot of death ball spammers(big strong move, you are invincible while doing it). However it would seem that Destructo Disk, Special beam cannon, and one of Nappa's moves totally break armour and knock people out of it, so that is pretty cool.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:44
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Evil Canadian posted:One thing I was worried about with Xenoverse is watching ranked fighting footage and there is a lot of death ball spammers(big strong move, you are invincible while doing it). However it would seem that Destructo Disk, Special beam cannon, and one of Nappa's moves totally break armour and knock people out of it, so that is pretty cool. Spamming is a thing for sure. Truthfully, a lot of Ultimates have some autoguard frames during the initial animation. The thing that makes the Death Ball (it's actually Buu's Planet Buster) spam a thing is that at the right range, with the right Z Soul conditions met, you can make them combo into each other for as long as you have Ki. SBC is straight up unblockable. I've also seen Final Flash just push through it. That isn't even considering things like just flying around it (range dependent, it's homing and pretty fast), offensive vanishing over it, Just Guarding it, using your Evasive Skill... The thing is that the majority of damage will come from Supers and Ultimates. Normal strings can be easy to vanish to out of, so they are primarily to force the opponent into spending stamina, or setting up Supers (ie - kicking them away then hitting them with a beam while they are recovering, or comboing into a melee super). Melee is getting more and more popular, because Gravity Impact (the Ultimate that is a bunch of vanishing and attacking, ending with that big axe kick) lasts longer than the most popular Evasive Skill (Buu's Evil Explosion), meaning even if they Evasive when you start it up, the last 4th or so of the attack will still hit them. Other Evasive like Cell Barrier can last the entire time and keep you safe. The truth is that Death Ball Spamming is really effective versus one particular build: the glass cannon melee build everyone is using to progress through the story. Nobody appears to be raising their Health or Stamina, and instead focusing on purely offensive stats. I think it goes without saying that story mode and online tryhard ranked matches will require different stat allocations. E: Another thing gaining traction is Recoome's Ginyu Pose gives you Capcom style "super armor" for a few seconds. I think Dimps probably calls it "no flinch" or something, but the point is that you can still attack while being hit. Still another thing getting popular is one of Broly's Supers (I don't know what it's called, but it's a short ranged green cone shaped blast) knocks back but does little damage, but the knock back is enough to combo one of your beams directly after it. Ki Users are using this in conjunction with their favorite beam to make it so that they typically don't use Ki unless they are sure it'll hit. Picture Ryu only using his U1 if he gets an anti-air LP Shoryu and you have the idea. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 05:03
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I don't know what most of that means but it makes me happy that the only multiplayer I plan to do is co-op mode for the story with a couple of friends. I'm not very good at fighters, and just want to put my super special snowflake over everybody, with the AI on easy or so.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:29
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TriffTshngo posted:There's Present A, which we know, Future A, which Trunks is from, Future B, which Cell is from, and Present B, which is never shown but is where Trunks from Future B goes and helps stop the androids. I'm going to like the idea there is a timeline where the androids are still murdering people and Cell can't do poo poo because all the power he needs to absorb the androids is kinda getting murdered by teenage robots for funnies.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:32
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SirDrone posted:I'm going to like the idea there is a timeline where the androids are still murdering people and Cell can't do poo poo because all the power he needs to absorb the androids is kinda getting murdered by teenage robots for funnies. Oddly there doesn't seem to be alt- timeline where the Androids survive. In Timeline A Goku dies, the Androids kill everyone, Trunks goes back in time, Trunks returns with the Android Plans and kills them, Cell takes the plans and fucks off. In Timeline B they kill the Androids, probably by shutting them off. Cell is probably killed when they raid Dr. Gero's lab since that is how they got the off-plans in main timeline. Timeline C they become a park ranger and Krillin's wife respectively. Cell gets Krillin'd. Timeline D they get killed by Trunks and so does Cell. So I guess their only happy ending is not being murder-psychos.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:40
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Can't say that's not a good moral to impart
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Feb 18, 2015 05:43
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projecthalaxy posted:I don't know what most of that means but it makes me happy that the only multiplayer I plan to do is co-op mode for the story with a couple of friends. I'm not very good at fighters, and just want to put my super special snowflake over everybody, with the AI on easy or so. http://www.twitch.tv/patriot1901 This guy gettong wrecked by a ki stylist using this set-up. His character is the melee flavor of "gently caress defense, I usually fight the AI". You can see the guy he is fighting use the green blast -> Kamehameha whenever he gets a decent opening. You can have multiple skill set-ups (with different costumes if you want), and this dude is running through his stable and losing over and over trying to adapt. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 05:56
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Firstborn posted:bunch of knowledgeable stuff. Well that is all good to know then. I take it you are following the game then somewhat in-depth? I have been trying to get some knowledge on here but its hard to decipher when there is not much out there and not sure where to find much more. When it comes to more competitively minded play is there any other tidbits or knowledge you might know offhand? Like stats wise or race or what have you. All I really know is I am going to make a Namek called Big Green.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:58
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Evil Canadian posted:Well that is all good to know then. I take it you are following the game then somewhat in-depth? I have been trying to get some knowledge on here but its hard to decipher when there is not much out there and not sure where to find much more. When it comes to more competitively minded play is there any other tidbits or knowledge you might know offhand? Like stats wise or race or what have you. Yeah I have been following pretty extensively. I think if I had to make a tier list right now it'd look like: Top: Male Majin, Male Earthling Mid: Namek, Female Saiyan, Freeza Race Low: Female Majin, Male Saiyan ????: Female Earthling This is mostly based on attack strings and available Supers/Ultimates. I think even if you make a melee dude, you really should have one good ranged super. It doesn't really pay to have a whole move list full of melee supers - some have good utility, like the chargeable Trunks slash that you teleport to them - others are strictly inferior versions of other moves. Ultimate should probably be Gravity Impact, but the Meteo Combo is also really good - it's the one with a bunch of punches/kicks, and you can hold it down - it continues as long as you have ki to spend. If you invested a lot in Ki, you can get huge damage out of this at the cost of being entirely spent when it's over. For less investment, and to better get around the most popular Evasive skills, Gravity Impact seems better. Certain moves like the Ki Sword Vegeto thing are goddamn terrible.. short range, terrible damage, and barely any auto-guard. You really need to learn jump-cancel and step-cancel if you go full melee. Basically, you can jump or step and continue a combo at certain chains... and can lead to ridiculous combos. Being able to Perfect Guard (pretty much Garou Just Guard, tap block to parry at the right moment) is pretty essential. Ki dudes have a little more leeway in how you can build your guy. You don't really need much Basic Attack at all. Basic is just to bait them into vanishing, spending their stamina, and avoiding tiny damage anyway. The stream I posted above is now fighting a popular melee build.. watch how he tries to Evasive out of Gravity Impact and still eats half the attack. E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=channel?UCNpmaJ-34eQ8MqrucBXu8ow?videos This is that lame Namek you liked. He plays other characters, too, and shows some great fundamentals. You can see him face a lot of common builds. You can press Away + Attack, and you will do a back kick or something... watch how he baits vanishes, they vanish into his back attack, and he continues the combo. It's easy to see when he plays Yamcha because it's a really dramatic punch in both directions. \/\/\/ Male Majin's strings not only stretch, but get bigger hitboxes as they arms contort like a goddamn Battletoad. Male Earthlings are hard to vanish because they have a lot of multi-hit attacks. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 06:08
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I will check out the stream then. I understand Nameks have some dhalsim-assed regular attacks so I can see why that is good, but what makes stuff like Majins/Earthlings particularly good? What is special about their basic strings? *ed* Seems your YT link is busted? Evil Canadian fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 06:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPzwnK1D_Yg Does this work? This guy isn't the player, he just uploads the guy's videos from Twitch. The guy's Twitch is Fuji3san, but he doesn't archive his broadcasts. Currently, he is thought to the best PvP streamer right now. He doesn't win all his matches, but his fundamentals are pretty drat good and he adjusts to the meta well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3SMsWOfFAQ This is a good fight where Fuji offensive vanishes someone trying to death ball spam him. About 40 seconds in (he also does it a bunch after). He can't convert it into damage because he overcommits, but it's still a pretty okay example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4tKJvHKdP4 Here's a different guy spamming Buu's Planet Buster.. and a better outcome. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 06:25
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Firstborn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPzwnK1D_Yg Yeah that works great. I am also glad I am not the only one putting the usual FGC tryhard method to this game 
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Feb 18, 2015 06:30
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I like how Fuji has no problem killing you with what is literally Dhalsim j.fp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5pD6r1apP8 Fuji using a weird Evasive absorbing shield and Meteo Combo to smash another Death Ball spammer. http://www.twitch.tv/chyadosensei Chyado uses a Male Earthling with a balanced approach, uses the green broly blast + ki attack, and another great Evasive in the "back turned gently caress you" thing that Gogeta does. You can see him land a lot of multi-hit strings with crazy angles and trip people up. He's also kind of an insufferable turbodork, so you may want to mute it. He uses the Z Soul to increase Piccolo's attacks, because his ranged moves are Demon Wave and SBC (which connect easy after the broly cone attack). It's called "I'm not God, and I'm not Piccolo".  Look at this goddamn Majin. LOOK AT IT.  Goonku? Firstborn fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 06:37
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New Leaf posted:I understand this sentiment, but everything can't be shrugged off with that argument. There has to be separate established canon, the anime canon and the manga canon, so the question is still valid as far as the anime is concerned. That said, I'd wager that far more people have seen the anime than the manga. It was a one off comment only in the english version of the DBZ anime. DBZ Kai doesn't have it. Japan doesn't have it. The Manga doesn't have it. You're basically arguing that Bardock is some mad scientist cus the original dub had Vegeta say that.
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Feb 18, 2015 15:29
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Why is female human unranked at the moment?
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Feb 18, 2015 16:02
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Why is female human unranked at the moment? I wonder if it is related to size, but frankly I don't care about ranking. I want to play as a girl super saiyan and save everyone. Possibly with pink hair.
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Feb 18, 2015 16:10
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Firstborn posted:
Wow! I didn't think the character generator would let you go that fat. I wonder if you can also go Old Man Gotenks levels of skinny. But that does inspire me, I bet I could get a Majin into a passing Dodoria that way, if they can wear Frieza's Army armor.
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Feb 18, 2015 16:11
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projecthalaxy posted:Wow! I didn't think the character generator would let you go that fat. I wonder if you can also go Old Man Gotenks levels of skinny. But that does inspire me, I bet I could get a Majin into a passing Dodoria that way, if they can wear Frieza's Army armor. I'm pretty sure that's a Buu.
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Feb 18, 2015 16:13
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Oh. I thought it was a grotesquely fat Saiyan because it's clearly Bardock, and got excited that the game let you make grotesquely fat Saiyans. I wanted this for reasons, you see.
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Feb 18, 2015 16:16
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A more realistic self-insert?
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Feb 18, 2015 16:39
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Kild posted:It was a one off comment only in the english version of the DBZ anime. DBZ Kai doesn't have it. Japan doesn't have it. The Manga doesn't have it. You're basically arguing that Bardock is some mad scientist cus the original dub had Vegeta say that. Bardock can have hobbies.  And I was more talking about the overall though, not just that one line. Lots of questions are shot down by "it wasn't in the manga". New Leaf fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 16:51
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Mordaedil posted:Possibly with pink hair. True saiyans have black hair you blood traitors
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Feb 18, 2015 17:11
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Doesn't Rocket Child of Destiny confirm that Bardock was, in fact, a scientist?
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Feb 18, 2015 17:32
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Petiso posted:True saiyans have black hair you blood traitors Yeah.
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Feb 18, 2015 18:19
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Obviously his character is a Super Saiyan God.
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Feb 18, 2015 18:29
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