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The thread was titled "quit loving a child" etc. last night.
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Feb 14, 2015 15:49
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Larry Parrish posted:I read A Canticle for Leibowitz the other day and it was really good. Does that count as classic literature? Probably not but whatever. Canticle is very good. You might not have realized that there is also a follow-up to it, which is also good. It had to be published posthumously, with an ending written by another author, because he worked on it for decades and then killed himself before finishing it; as a result, it's real loving depressing, but it's fantastic and I have no idea why people don't seem to know about it. Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman
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Feb 14, 2015 16:01
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:In my experience most people don't "get" Shakespeare until they've seen it performed - just reading it like it was a novel is probably the worst possible way to approach those texts. It's not really the "worst way possible". For a modern person to get Shakespeare's plays yes they need to see it performed (as with any drama), but they also need to read it, and read the notes explaining the meaning of a lot of his language and the political and social contexts behind the jokes and references he constantly makes. Without that background, there is a huge amount of content in those plays you are going to miss (unless you happen to have a strong working knowledge of Elizabethan daily life, politics, society, and vocabulary). And that just applies to his plays. There's plenty of Shakespeare to "get" from reading the sonnets as well. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 17:11
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The sonnets are p. mediocre, though, there's much better poetry available in english
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Feb 14, 2015 18:42
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Earwicker posted:It's not really the "worst way possible". For a modern person to get Shakespeare's plays yes they need to see it performed (as with any drama), but they also need to read it, and read the notes explaining the meaning of a lot of his language and the political and social contexts behind the jokes and references he constantly makes. Without that background, there is a huge amount of content in those plays you are going to miss (unless you happen to have a strong working knowledge of Elizabethan daily life, politics, society, and vocabulary). My point was kind of that you're not likely to find a classroom where the educator bothers to establish any context for the plays. Sad, but true. My class got to go see a production, but that was for AP seniors only. Everyone else (and 99% of people I know) never got anything beyond "read the play with a modernized translation on the opposite page" and "take turns reading sections out loud," which is a nice idea in theory, but quickly goes south when half of the class is reading in a monotone at a fifth grade level. I don't think many high schools teach the sonnets, either. And while I agree that all drama should ideally be experienced in the context of a performance, it's quite a bit easier for your average high school kid to parse more modern dramas on a surface level. For example, the students that got frustrated with King Lear were really getting into The Importance of Being Earnest.
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Feb 15, 2015 03:38
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:My point was kind of that you're not likely to find a classroom where the educator bothers to establish any context for the plays. Sad, but true. My class got to go see a production, but that was for AP seniors only. Everyone else (and 99% of people I know) never got anything beyond "read the play with a modernized translation on the opposite page" and "take turns reading sections out loud," which is a nice idea in theory, but quickly goes south when half of the class is reading in a monotone at a fifth grade level. My high school English teacher told us which sonnets would get us laid with English majors if we memorized them haha
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Feb 15, 2015 03:41
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:My point was kind of that you're not likely to find a classroom where the educator bothers to establish any context for the plays. Sad, but true. My class got to go see a production, but that was for AP seniors only. Everyone else (and 99% of people I know) never got anything beyond "read the play with a modernized translation on the opposite page" and "take turns reading sections out loud," which is a nice idea in theory, but quickly goes south when half of the class is reading in a monotone at a fifth grade level. That is too bad. I wasn't taken to any productions in high school but we did watch the 1960's film version of Hamlet and a 90's (I think) film version of Much Ado About Nothing, both of which are decent and help get people into it. I know a lot of schools are underfunded but still at least showing the older film adaptations of some of the more well known plays seems doable.
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Feb 15, 2015 03:42
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Smoking Crow posted:My high school English teacher told us which sonnets would get us laid with English majors if we memorized them haha That's pretty amazing. We had one teacher that told us we definitely shouldn't go read Joyce's letters to Nora *wink wink* when we read a bit of Dubliners, but he had a PhD and was about to leave to go teach at a university so he probably just didn't give a poo poo. Earwicker posted:That is too bad. I wasn't taken to any productions in high school but we did watch the 1960's film version of Hamlet and a 90's (I think) film version of Much Ado About Nothing, both of which are decent and help get people into it. I know a lot of schools are underfunded but still at least showing the older film adaptations of some of the more well known plays seems doable. We got the Branagh Hamlet, the 90's Much Ado (which I think had Branagh too, now that I think about it. Also Denzel Washington, Michael Keaton, and Keanu Reeves), and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. The selection of plays that we actually read was pretty odd; I think it was R+J, Taming of the Shrew, A Midsummer Night's Dream, and Julius Caesar. Dunno what kind of process went behind those choices. There's really no excuse for not showing a film or two at least, but I've met a ton of people that didn't get anything beyond semi-guided reading. Unsurprisingly, most of those people aren't too into Shakespeare.
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Feb 15, 2015 04:00
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My high school performed Shakespeare pretty exclusively so I got to be in Macbeth, Twelfth Night and Midsummer Night's Dream. Much better experiences than reading Hamlet and Othello but performing the others definitely helped me get those two more.
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Feb 15, 2015 05:39
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Reading Emma. A bit that's frustrating is how the same character my be referred to by three or four different names on the same page. Ie 'Isabella', 'Mrs. Knightly', 'Her sister', and a generic pronoun.
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Feb 15, 2015 17:21
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It's a necessity to read canonical works because of their influence on the literary form and that these works have influenced other great writers, but I think that there isn't too much of a harm in reading sensationalist novels or any other contemporary writers. A lot of my professors are of course incredibly well versed in the classics, but their interests are in pop culture and contemporary adaptations of classic works. Also seeing how enduring different tropes are in seemingly unrelated texts is pretty interesting to me. Of course then again I know people that basically subsist by reading Harlequin romance novels and writing endless genre pieces and then have promoted themselves as the champion and authority on all literature. As long as you can critically analyze literature and are aware of what you're consuming, don't feel too guilty.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:44
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FiscalTortoise posted:It's a necessity to read canonical works because of their influence on the literary form and that these works have influenced other great writers, but I think that there isn't too much of a harm in reading sensationalist novels or any other contemporary writers. I wouldn't say it's a necessity, exactly. For example I have gotten through life so far without reading any Schiller, and I plan to keep on going like that, and I think it will be fine. Good, even.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:00
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FiscalTortoise posted:It's a necessity to read canonical works because of their influence on the literary form and that these works have influenced other great writers, but I think that there isn't too much of a harm in reading sensationalist novels or any other contemporary writers. A lot of my professors are of course incredibly well versed in the classics, but their interests are in pop culture and contemporary adaptations of classic works. Also seeing how enduring different tropes are in seemingly unrelated texts is pretty interesting to me. Of course then again I know people that basically subsist by reading Harlequin romance novels and writing endless genre pieces and then have promoted themselves as the champion and authority on all literature. As long as you can critically analyze literature and are aware of what you're consuming, don't feel too guilty. I think the problem people have is not that people aren't reading the classics but that they are trying to elevate whatever genre fiction they are reading to the level of the classics. I may enjoy watching movies like Guardians of the Galaxy or Mockingjay, but I'm not saying they should be nominated for Movie of the Year or considered to have more value than Apocalypse Now or No Country for Old Men or whatever movie. Every genre reader wants to be padded on the back because they're reading or because they think that ya is equivalent to literature or that GoT is some big anti-war statement because he shows you the horror of a made up war or something. No one's saying you should read literature. If you get entertainment from reading Harlequin romances, who am I to tell you what to enjoy, but at the same time understand that you might as well be entertaining yourself watching some formulaic tv show or movie and you would be getting more or less the same value out of it.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:05
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The new Hunger Games film is actually much better than a good chunk of the Best Picture nominees this year.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:09
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computer parts posted:The new Hunger Games film is actually much better than a good chunk of the Best Picture nominees this year. No its not.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:52
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computer parts posted:The new Hunger Games film is actually much better than a good chunk of the Best Picture nominees this year. but is it better than Battle Royale
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Feb 17, 2015 05:14
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Earwicker posted:I wouldn't say it's a necessity, exactly. For example I have gotten through life so far without reading any Schiller, and I plan to keep on going like that, and I think it will be fine. Good, even. You're lucky. Even if you start reading Schiller now, it will probably be fun. I was tortured in school with Goethe and Schiller until I started to hate them.  Some stuff of Schiller I still like, but I can't get over my revulsion to go read it again.
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Feb 17, 2015 10:58
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Battle Royale is a good, leftist book.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:09
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Shibawanko posted:Battle Royale is a good, leftist book. I like it because the kids shoot each other
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Feb 17, 2015 17:13
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corn in the bible posted:No its not. In fact it is, but only because the Oscars are poo poo and always have been.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:23
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You should read canonical works if you want to. Forcing yourself through a novel because you «have to» (outside a school or university context) is not the way to go if you want to enjoy what you read. That said, some canonical works you really should read because they are actually really really good and can tell you a lot about the society at the time they were written. But only if you want to.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:27
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Hamsun is great, though, I am reading his collected novels right now and they own bones
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Feb 17, 2015 22:20
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V. Illych L. posted:Hamsun is great, though, I am reading his collected novels right now and they own bones I would go so far as to rank him my favourite Norwegian author, despite his questionable decisions and views in politics during the later half of his life.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:31
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I particularly admire his first sentences. It is entirely possible that nobody in the history of literature has made as good first sentences to their novels as Hamsun. They're not even particularly fancy most of the time, they just fit the book perfectly. Even in his shittier novels (Redaktør Lynge, in particular) the first sentence is absolute gold. Norway certainly has no other novelist that can compete - possibly Ibsen with his plays, or someone's poetry, but the only novelist that I can think of that I'd rate anywhere close to him is Undset, though I've only read Kristin Lavransdatter by her. And Hamsun is in a whole other league.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:46
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Libluini posted:You're lucky. Even if you start reading Schiller now, it will probably be fun. I was tortured in school with Goethe and Schiller until I started to hate them. I thought Goethe's take on Faust was good
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Feb 18, 2015 04:08
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Which novel would you recommend for someone who hasn't read any Hamsun?
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Feb 18, 2015 05:10
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tatankatonk posted:Which novel would you recommend for someone who hasn't read any Hamsun? Hunger is a good starting point for many.
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Feb 18, 2015 09:24
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Hunger is really good
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Feb 18, 2015 15:55
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V. Illych L. posted:I particularly admire his first sentences. It is entirely possible that nobody in the history of literature has made as good first sentences to their novels as Hamsun. They're not even particularly fancy most of the time, they just fit the book perfectly. Even in his shittier novels (Redaktør Lynge, in particular) the first sentence is absolute gold. Norway certainly has no other novelist that can compete - possibly Ibsen with his plays, or someone's poetry, but the only novelist that I can think of that I'd rate anywhere close to him is Undset, though I've only read Kristin Lavransdatter by her. And Hamsun is in a whole other league. It's really hard to beat the first sentence of Charlotte's Web. quote:"Where's Papa going with that axe?" said Fern to her mother as they were setting the table for breakfast.
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Feb 18, 2015 16:16
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What about Aujourd'hui, maman est morte? Maybe a cliché but still embedded with interesting ambiguity.
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Feb 18, 2015 16:48
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riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
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Feb 18, 2015 16:54
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Best first line is "Incredible the animal that first dreamed of another animal" and I will fight people on this
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Feb 18, 2015 17:22
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For this thread, there's no competition: "I gently caress babies"
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Feb 18, 2015 17:42
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Burning Rain posted:For this thread, there's no competition: "I gently caress babies" This book seems like a competently constructed version of those weird "rear end nazis from faggotsville" books that pop up on Amazon
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Feb 18, 2015 18:25
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Mel Mudkiper posted:This book seems like a competently constructed version of those weird "rear end nazis from faggotsville" books that pop up on Amazon Dude, what the gently caress are you buying if Amazon recommends those to you?
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Feb 18, 2015 18:34
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Burning Rain posted:Dude, what the gently caress are you buying if Amazon recommends those to you? Pre-Raphaelite poetry. It's a bug they're working on.
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Feb 18, 2015 18:41
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Burning Rain posted:Dude, what the gently caress are you buying if Amazon recommends those to you? what are you not buying if you aren't getting those books recommended to you constantly?
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Feb 18, 2015 18:47
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Lol if you get on Amazon and its not all rear end Goblins of Auschwitz all the way down
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Feb 18, 2015 18:49
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huh, it's just criticism on T.S. Eliot, children's videos and laminated tape for me
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Feb 18, 2015 19:12
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| # ? May 15, 2024 07:41 |
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Every amazon page is seven degree of separation from Nazis. T. S. Eliot -> Ezra Pound -> biography of Mussolini -> History of Fascism -> Nazi culture -> Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS -> There you go poisonpill fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 19:56
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