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I also don't know why they would be dancing in front of a button-based rhythm game
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Feb 17, 2015 20:01
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| # ? May 29, 2024 05:21 |
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In the grim dark future, all rhythm games require Kinect.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:03
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I get up and I dance along with Risette On Stage, every time.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:03
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I'll probably not get it and watch a couple videos of the cutscenes or whatever. I don't tend to like rhythm games unless I am holding a plastic instrument in my hands, and I'm just not sure I want to see the Scoobies go on another canned, semi-canon, poorly-characterized adventure at this point.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:05
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Dragonatrix posted:Well, it's a Vita exclusive so.... Oh huh? I thought it was a DDR-style game for some reason. Probably the dancing.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:06
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Yeah its closer to project diva/gitaroo man/parappa than it is DDR. It's probably gonna own.
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Feb 17, 2015 21:04
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Rhythm games own and so far the remixes have owned so I don't know why someone would think it's gonna suck
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Feb 17, 2015 23:15
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If you folks don't mind, I've got a bit of a survey for the MegaTen Megathread. I'm working on a Persona tabletop RPG. I've got a pretty good idea of what I want to do, gameplay-wise. I'm going to be avoiding trying to make Persona fusion work--in the base rules, nobody's a Wild Card, but instead you level up by growing as a person and your Persona evolves twice as you do so. You also build your own custom Persona at character creation, which hopefully should be pretty fun for players. My survey is this: how do you envision what using a Persona looks like? I'm trying to decide how I want to characterize what it looks like when someone uses their Persona and, depending on the interpretation I go with, it might have ramifications for the rules. I ask because the Persona 3 and 4 animations both took different approaches. In the Persona 3 movies, the SEES members fight with weapons, and they have to resummon their Persona each time they do another special attack. In the Persona 4 animation, Personas do all the fighting--the Investigation Team never use weapons themselves, but they do get hurt when their Personas do (I'm probably not going to use this interpretation for the tabletop game, however). And yet both of those are at odds with how I envisioned it before I watched either animation, because both of them have the Personas be real, physical beings once they're summoned. In my mind, I always figured that the Personas were intangible and transparent (like they appear in the games) and that the characters are just channeling their power to do the special moves themselves. For example, when Chie uses Rampage, is she channeling Tomoe to go on a kicking rampage herself, or is she standing back while Tomoe rampages across the crowd of enemies? Anyway, largely because I can't decide what's the coolest way to frame it, I figured I'd ask what all of you think.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:29
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You should do it Persona 1 style where everyone just goes apeshit with guns they stole from the police and the Personas are more of a backup plan
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Feb 17, 2015 23:45
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Harrow posted:the coolest way to Persona I'm pretty sure that Jojo's answered that question several times over and in different ways. (I've only started Stardust Crusaders, but I'm pretty sure you could draw some inspiration from there.) This would mean basically the P4 anime style, which you said you didn't like much. But I felt summoning a thing to fight for you resonated pretty well with the theme of a Persona being the mask you hide your true self behind. Besides, calling a giant monster thing for it to just be a hologram in the background while you do all the work yourself actually seems like a pretty boring way to go about it to me.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:47
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That sounds like a fluff thing that each player could decide for themselves. I don't see any real reason to limit it.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:48
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Harrow posted:My survey is this: how do you envision what using a Persona looks like? I'm trying to decide how I want to characterize what it looks like when someone uses their Persona and, depending on the interpretation I go with, it might have ramifications for the rules. I like the way it's represented in the fighting games. The characters summon the persona for every individual attack, but they can do it much faster than the RPG would make you think. The persona blinks in and out of existence every few seconds, staying close to the user and almost mirroring them as they fight. They did have to scrap evokers for everything but the most elaborate special moves though, because while the card-break animation from P4 can be converted into an in-the-fly hand gesture, shooting yourself in the head can't.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:54
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Really Pants posted:That sounds like a fluff thing that each player could decide for themselves. I don't see any real reason to limit it. It could be, but it could also have rules ramifications, so I don't think I'd want it to be on a player-by-player basis. For example, I don't think the "the Persona is just an image and the attacks are done by the human character" approach and the "Persona does all the fighting and the human character stands back" approach are really compatible. Similarly, if there are rules for weapon attacks, does a player who wants that second approach just ignore them? In the second approach, do the player character and their Persona share HP? Are they two targets or one? If the Persona runs out of HP, does the player character get KO'd, or can they just resummon their Persona when they get a chance? No matter what I take as the "default" in the rules, I intend to offer alternate rules (which probably won't differ that much) for groups who'd prefer to use a different interpretation. I'm also considering trying to work out some sort of alternate rules for campaigns that want to be more like Persona 1/2, where everyone can have multiple Personas, but that's a bigger thing. ZeusJupitar posted:I like the way it's represented in the fighting games. The characters summon the persona for every individual attack, but they can do it much faster than the RPG would make you think. The persona blinks in and out of existence every few seconds, staying close to the user and almost mirroring them as they fight. Yeah, I think that might be a good way of doing it. The Persona 3 movies seem to take that approach, too (though a little slower-paced to allow for Evokers, of course): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5abuKIccuio. (I also like the little line in there about how Persona-users have enhanced physical capabilities thanks to their Personas. It's why I'm avoiding physical stats entirely and just taking Persona 4's social stats.) That's probably what I'm going to assume as the "default" and probably have (very slightly) alternate rules for groups who'd rather do it like the Persona 4 anime, where their characters won't have weapons or even be much stronger/more resilient than normal humans, but it's fine because they're standing back and their Personas are doing all the fighting. Harrow fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 23:58
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Really Pants posted:That sounds like a fluff thing that each player could decide for themselves. I don't see any real reason to limit it. I think as long as you go with the ruling that Personas are physical things (a verdict that nothing seems to contradict, and most things explicitly go with), yeah, this is the way to do it. Let the players choose, don't hhave a straight-up rule unless you have to. This might be overthinking the rules for something that should just be flavor, but maybe have the different depictions across the games and animes be different types of character. The P4 anime style has their Persona on the field at all times, so it's always a presence and may act as a shield of sorts (making them sort of tanky), but their attacks are less impressive and they might not have stellar personal ability. Then you have the P3 anime's and Arena's depictions, where the Personas aren't permanent but do linger for a while after sumoning, and they're perhaps the 'all-rounder'. Then you have the main game's depictions, with a particular focus on Persona 3, which would come out as a sort of 'glass cannon'; their Persona isn't out for long, but it's gonna make its brief time present count. Maybe there could be a Persona 1-style Persona-light, weapon-centric style too, or maybe that could be merged into the third style.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:17
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They should have let Squeenix make a SMT/Persona theatrythm.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:23
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Harrow posted:Persona TRPG Design. This is less a question about what is 'cool' and more about what kind of game you want. Do you want tactical combat? Fast and loose rules? A focus on social linking? Seeing as how this is a setting that runs on anime physics and videogame logic, I advise for a more cinematic game with effects-based rules. Meaning the way in which each Persona user fights doesn't matter and it should be up to fluff. For examples of effects-based systems look to D&D 4E as an inspiration (for engaging combat gameplay) or FATE Core (for simplicity and ease of storytelling). This works well because this way you can have someone who rocks a Shotgun against Shadows right next to someone whose Persona does all the fighting. Diversification of options is cool because everyone feels special and unique.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:26
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I just don't think I can justify owning DAN. I can't think of anyone in my social circle who would want to dance in front of a TV instead of out in a club. Technically they're dancing inside the TV not in front of it
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Feb 18, 2015 00:32
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I think they're inside the internet, actually.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:40
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Freak Futanari posted:You should do it Persona 1 style where everyone just goes apeshit with guns they stole from the police and the Personas are more of a backup plan This was a cool thing about Persona 1 imo. Those kids were pretty go with the flow of the poo poo they dealt with. Sudden reality warping hospitals? Sure! Play some cult game in abandoned room in our school, when we got poo poo to do? Hell yeah! Some kid trying to summon his Persona and Mara loving bursts out of his chest? Aight then.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:46
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GimmickMan posted:This is less a question about what is 'cool' and more about what kind of game you want. Do you want tactical combat? Fast and loose rules? A focus on social linking? Yeah, I'm definitely trying to avoid excessive crunch. I'm going for some sort of unholy union between the distinct and useful abilities of 4e and some of the narrative focus and the player agency of the Powered by the Apocalypse/*World games. It'll have a lot in common with 13th Age--not tactical combat, but rather more cinematic combat--but with basically a "make your own class" system when it comes to building your custom Persona. I'm outright stealing 13th Age's backgrounds system for the human characters' non-combat skills. The stats will be Courage, Diligence, Understanding, Knowledge, and Expression, and HP is explicitly your will to keep fighting (so it's based on Courage and Diligence), which allows your Persona to protect you from a certain amount of attacks. Cleretic posted:I think as long as you go with the ruling that Personas are physical things (a verdict that nothing seems to contradict, and most things explicitly go with), yeah, this is the way to do it. Let the players choose, don't hhave a straight-up rule unless you have to. Hm, I hadn't considered making it a "fighting style" kind of thing, with each approach having its own strengths and weaknesses. I'll have to keep that in mind, because that could be pretty cool. Harrow fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 01:19
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Fighting styles as the equivalent of races/classes sound like a good way to add some diversification without bogging down things much.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:56
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What you could do is make a system more like p1/p2 where characters have specific affinities for given arcanas. Said affinities can then be expressed by their fighting style, where you get people who are maybe more suited to support or offense or healing, etc. In terms of character-building and role-playing you have their personalities and backgrounds helping define their affinities.
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Feb 18, 2015 02:19
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My "class" system, at the moment, is focused on Domains. When you build your Persona, you pick two Domains like Fire, Healing, Ice, Martial Arts, Polearms, Light, Inspiration (the -kaja spells), that kind of thing. As you level up, you can gain up to two or three (haven't decided yet) more Domains to make your Persona more versatile (to compensate for the lack of Persona-switching, at least in the base rules). So, like, if you were making Yukari, you'd probably pick the Healing and Wind Domains, which would start you with Dia and Garu. Kanji would start with Bludgeons and Lightning, and might pick up Inspiration later for Matarukaja. Characters also have specific Arcana, but I'm not 100% sure how I want to incorporate them. At the moment, the idea is "pick an Arcana that fits both you and the myth/legend/monster/demon you picked to be your Persona," and your Arcana might determine how you gain XP, because it determines what sort of weaknesses/issues/challenges you have to overcome to grow.
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Feb 18, 2015 02:44
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Saagonsa posted:Aigis is good and smart
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Feb 18, 2015 03:17
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Harrow posted:It could be, but it could also have rules ramifications, so I don't think I'd want it to be on a player-by-player basis. For example, I don't think the "the Persona is just an image and the attacks are done by the human character" approach and the "Persona does all the fighting and the human character stands back" approach are really compatible. Similarly, if there are rules for weapon attacks, does a player who wants that second approach just ignore them? In the second approach, do the player character and their Persona share HP? Are they two targets or one? If the Persona runs out of HP, does the player character get KO'd, or can they just resummon their Persona when they get a chance? Looking at the movies and the part of P3 where Akihiko got his ribs kicked in by The Magician, personas will block attacks from shadows, but not from environmental hazards. It seems like shadows and personas can only manifest in zones where the realm of matter and the realm of mind overlap, like the Dark Hour. That's because they're entirely things of mind, but in the material world minds can't interact directly with each other. Pure mind can completely block pure mind, so having a persona will protect you from a shadow's direct attack until your HP runs out. However, since the environment is only part mind, if the shadow attacks indirectly by smashing a window or throwing you against a wall, that will not be blocked. But most shadows aren't intelligent, so they can't take advantage of that. I think you should have HP, plus a system of minor wounds (like cuts and sprains), severe wounds (like broken bones), and critical wounds (anything actually life threatening). On an unrelated note, what about weapon power? I like the explanation that weapons are stronger or weaker based on how famous and how powerful they are believed to be. Basically, how strong their presence is in the collective subconscious. The AK-47 would be the strongest assault rifle because it has by far the best reputation (except for ultimate weapons made through persona fusion, ala P3FES/P). But combine that with a personal factor. They'll also be stronger if they mean more to the person wielding them. Like, the sword of Kusanagi is more powerful in the hands of a Japanese person because they have more affinity for the legend. A weapon with more personal meaning, like something that belonged to an ancestor or relative, would also be stronger. quote:Characters also have specific Arcana, but I'm not 100% sure how I want to incorporate them. At the moment, the idea is "pick an Arcana that fits both you and the myth/legend/monster/demon you picked to be your Persona," and your Arcana might determine how you gain XP, because it determines what sort of weaknesses/issues/challenges you have to overcome to grow. It could be RP related. The arcana could represent a general way a character is supposed to act. If a person shows a strong affinity for an additional arcana through roleplaying, the person running the game could reward them with the option to change to a new persona with the same level, but a different skillset, at any time afterwards. Could be very handy in a pinch. But if a person just abandons their original arcana, or RPs poorly, the GM might reverse their arcana, giving a big penalty to their combat ability until they complete a special quest or something, at which point they either go back to their original, or are forced to change to a new one.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:03
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Just yell really loud and the Persona comes out to cast a spell. PERSONA! 
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Feb 18, 2015 05:51
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Harrow, you should make a thread in TG. I'd play the hell out of a Persona game.
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Feb 18, 2015 06:09
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Montegoraon posted:Looking at the movies and the part of P3 where Akihiko got his ribs kicked in by The Magician, personas will block attacks from shadows, but not from environmental hazards. It seems like shadows and personas can only manifest in zones where the realm of matter and the realm of mind overlap, like the Dark Hour. That's because they're entirely things of mind, but in the material world minds can't interact directly with each other. Pure mind can completely block pure mind, so having a persona will protect you from a shadow's direct attack until your HP runs out. However, since the environment is only part mind, if the shadow attacks indirectly by smashing a window or throwing you against a wall, that will not be blocked. But most shadows aren't intelligent, so they can't take advantage of that. I think you should have HP, plus a system of minor wounds (like cuts and sprains), severe wounds (like broken bones), and critical wounds (anything actually life threatening). That rule for where Personas can and can't be summoned only really applies to Persona 3 and 4, though, or at least explicitly. Persona 1 and 2 both feature situations where the fabric of reality is more subject to the will of individuals, but it's a less explicit division than it is in 3 and 4. Plus, the characters fight demons in 1 and 2, which aren't explicitly products of the collective unconscious the way that shadows are. I'd probably leave it up to each individual group if their campaign will be "demons in the real world," "shadows in an altered world," or some combination thereof. My current idea for an HP system is that your HP represents what your Persona can protect you from using your will to keep fighting. Once your HP runs out, you're not immediately out of the battle, but your Persona can't protect you anymore, so the next serious hit you take is going to KO you. (Not too sure what the rules for character death will be quite yet.) If I implement something like "your Persona can't protect you as thoroughly from environmental factors," I'd probably have it mostly be about effects rather than a separate wound track, just for the sake of simplicity and keeping it cinematic. Getting slammed against the wall will daze you, or getting hit with a bunch of glass will make you bleed--various effects that can't be easily expressed through HP damage. Montegoraon posted:On an unrelated note, what about weapon power? I like the explanation that weapons are stronger or weaker based on how famous and how powerful they are believed to be. Basically, how strong their presence is in the collective subconscious. The AK-47 would be the strongest assault rifle because it has by far the best reputation (except for ultimate weapons made through persona fusion, ala P3FES/P). But combine that with a personal factor. They'll also be stronger if they mean more to the person wielding them. Like, the sword of Kusanagi is more powerful in the hands of a Japanese person because they have more affinity for the legend. A weapon with more personal meaning, like something that belonged to an ancestor or relative, would also be stronger. Yeah, I think that's a great way to do it. I'm not too sure how big of a weapon hierarchy I want to have for a tabletop game, but whatever weapon power differences there are will be almost entirely based on belief and imagery. I love that kind of thing. Yes, but this only works if you pronounce it "PER-SAW-NUH!" And it helps if you have a friend who can dance crazy. Captain Walker posted:Harrow, you should make a thread in TG. I'd play the hell out of a Persona game. I've been posting about it on and off in the chat thread, but yeah, once I have a partial draft I'll definitely be making a TG thread for feedback/ideas.
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Feb 18, 2015 06:25
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I just don't think I can justify owning DAN. I can't think of anyone in my social circle who would want to dance in front of a TV instead of out in a club. Lol yeah sure, play the high school simulator where you can date all the girls in school but DANCING no way mister, this is one step too far Harrow posted:My survey is this: how do you envision what using a Persona looks like? Stands from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure ZeusJupitar posted:I like the way it's represented in the fighting games. The characters summon the persona for every individual attack, but they can do it much faster than the RPG would make you think. The persona blinks in and out of existence every few seconds, staying close to the user and almost mirroring them as they fight.
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Feb 18, 2015 06:27
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Montegoraon posted:It could be RP related. The arcana could represent a general way a character is supposed to act. If a person shows a strong affinity for an additional arcana through roleplaying, the person running the game could reward them with the option to change to a new persona with the same level, but a different skillset, at any time afterwards. Could be very handy in a pinch. But if a person just abandons their original arcana, or RPs poorly, the GM might reverse their arcana, giving a big penalty to their combat ability until they complete a special quest or something, at which point they either go back to their original, or are forced to change to a new one. So the 3.5 Paladin mechanic then?
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Feb 18, 2015 06:33
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I like to imagine that both versions of Persona 1 occurred at the same time on two continents. They are both canon.
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Feb 18, 2015 06:39
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Hunt11 posted:So the 3.5 Paladin mechanic then? Old-style D&D alignments came to my mind, too. I'm not sure how I feel about that because of a reflexive dislike of that alignment system, but it would be a decent starting place. What I will say, though, is that I don't think acting outside of your Arcana, or changing it, should be a universally catastrophic thing. Persona's all about character development, and the Arcana are very vague anyway, so it'd be wrong to punish somebody roleplaying a change in their character like that. Maybe there could be slight debuffs to doing things that explicitly act 'against' your Arcana (the Hierophant rebelling against authority, or the Hermit being too social), but even that shouldn't be crippling. Just something to mechanically reflect that internal feeling of 'I'm not comfortable with what I just did'. Changing Arcana is available as an option, but it has to be a special effort. He mentioned that a PC's Persona would be able to evolve twice, so maybe that would be it; each evolution can be a different Arcana, but it doesn't have to be.
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Feb 18, 2015 08:19
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Lol yeah sure, play the high school simulator where you can date all the girls in school but DANCING no way mister, this is one step too far Just saying, dancing is really only fun if there are other people around (like attractive members of your preferred gender). Otherwise it's just exercise, which is good and all, but... If it's a rhythm matching game then that's different anyway.
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Feb 18, 2015 09:00
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They should make SMT: Patapona where you summon demons and trigger abilities through tapping.
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Feb 18, 2015 09:04
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Just saying, dancing is really only fun if there are other people around (like attractive members of your preferred gender). Otherwise it's just exercise, which is good and all, but... You are not dancing in DAN. Well, you could be I guess. If you really wanted to. I dunno why you'd think the Vita could do a DDR style game in the first place. Portable dance mat and Vita stand?
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Feb 18, 2015 09:18
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Dancing games that don't actually let you dance are so dumb. I want to dance to YOUR AFFECTION in arcades.
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Feb 18, 2015 09:23
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It's not a dancing game
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Feb 18, 2015 09:31
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Just saying, dancing is really only fun if there are other people around (like attractive members of your preferred gender). Otherwise it's just exercise, which is good and all, but... You tap buttons in time to music It's a vita game You're not literally dancing when you play it
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Feb 18, 2015 09:33
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It should be a dancing game. If I can't pretend to dance with Kanji in the club, what's even the point??
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Feb 18, 2015 09:35
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| # ? May 29, 2024 05:21 |
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It should be Crypt of the Necrodancer. The only thing stopping you from pretending to dance with Kanji in the club is your own sense of shame.
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Feb 18, 2015 09:39
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