War Thunder - Red Team Bias [COMBINED ARMS ARE IN!]

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > War Thunder - Red Team Bias [COMBINED ARMS ARE IN!]

EmpyreanFlux: Mar 1, 2013; The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!

FYI if we're going to go on about dumb ammorack poo poo, to my knowledge there are basic dry stowage Shermans, wet stowage Shermans, and dry stowage Shermans with the 25mm exterior plate and 12mm internal protective box surrounding them.

I'm unsure if other countries have this kind of thing, Germans constly put thier poo poo in the sponsons so it doesn't seem like a thing for them, I can see the Brits and Russian doing armored ammo stowage though.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 06:21

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 07:07

Thief: Jan 28, 2011

gently caress yes, there's a Po-2 with Yak-3 cover in the SB event :getin:

# ? Feb 18, 2015 06:25

Plan Z: May 6, 2012

FaustianQ posted:

FYI if we're going to go on about dumb ammorack poo poo, to my knowledge there are basic dry stowage Shermans, wet stowage Shermans, and dry stowage Shermans with the 25mm exterior plate and 12mm internal protective box surrounding them.

I'm unsure if other countries have this kind of thing, Germans constly put thier poo poo in the sponsons so it doesn't seem like a thing for them, I can see the Brits and Russian doing armored ammo stowage though.

The last two came as part of a kit know as the Blitz Package; they also removed the ready rack in the turret.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 06:27

Sard: May 11, 2012; Certified Poster of Culture.

Sedisp posted:

Even if you were right. That's not how wet stowage works. Getting shot in the ammo should indeed prevent it from cooking off. That's half the point of it. You are wrong. Sorry.

I haven't ever seen anything to indicate that the system would stop the eventual catastrophic effect of a direct hit to the ammo. It could delay it enough for the crew to escape, though. The much improved placement did more to prevent that than anything else. From Steven Zaloga's Armored Thunderbolt:

quote:

As mentioned earlier, the short-term solution to the ammunition problem was to weld extra applique armor over
the ammunition bins, which was done starting in the summer of 1943. The better way around this problem was
to make it less likely that the ammunition would be hit and less likely to catch fire if the tank was penetrated by
enemy guns. To make it less likely to be hit, the ammunition was shifted from high in the sponsons to low in the
hull under the turret basket. Not only did this reduce the likelihood of the ammunition being hit, but it also gave
the ammunition some passive protection from tank components. An enemy projectile hitting the tank low in the
front would not only have to go through the tank's outer armor to hit the ammunition, but it would also have to pass
through the very substantial transmission in the lower front of the tank, most likely stopping it before it hit the ammunition. From the sides, the enemy projectile would be likely to hit the large cast bogies of the suspension before
even reaching the tank's side armor, once again drastically reducing the probability of reaching the ammunition. In
addition, the ammunition was now placed in lightly armored bins surrounded by water or antifreeze. This was not
enough to stop a complete projectile, but a frequent source of tank fires was the spray of sizzling metal fragments
that careened around inside the tank like supersonic ping-pong balls when a projectile broke up after penetrating the
tank's armor; the new bins were enough to stop many of these small fragments.

Emphasis on the last bit. I love this stuff though and if you know about some documenting of the actual results of a shell reaching and going through the wet storage likely disrupting many items, rather than the effects of a penetration elsewhere in the tank being mitigated, let me know. In the game, I notice my Sherman racks standing up very well to any damage that isn't centered on them. If Gaijin figures out how to move the ammo to the correct, safer place, then yeah it'll probably be as survivable as you all wish but it's already better than others.

Sard fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Feb 18, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 06:29

Shanakin: Mar 26, 2010; The whole point of stats are lost if you keep it a secret. Why Didn't you tell the world eh?

You know, I thought some of the autismal plane arguments got pretty dumb but I swear tanks bring out a whole new level in people

# ? Feb 18, 2015 06:48

Fart Car '97: Jul 23, 2003

At some point every game thread devolves into pedantic discussion and arguing because what the gently caress else are you supposed to do after you've talked about a thing for thousands of collective hours?

REMINDER people complained that some of us were posting TOO MANY GIFS :jerkbag:

# ? Feb 18, 2015 06:52

Sard: May 11, 2012; Certified Poster of Culture.

What else are we going to do at 1AM, sleep? No there are tanks to slapfight about.

e: education through antagonism

# ? Feb 18, 2015 06:55

Fart Car '97: Jul 23, 2003

WOOP please stop posting so many gifs of sweet kills I have ammo rack depletion numbers to discuss

*makes a bunch of posts about how lame these fuckin nerds are, talking about a thing*

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:00

Bolow: Feb 27, 2007

This Korsun event is loving hilarious, a single IL-2 or Hs-129 can wipe out 70% of the enemies tickets in a single pass. Good money too

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:03

Thief: Jan 28, 2011

I'm tempted to make a compilation of every time a person has said "point three" in relation to battle rankings on mumble but I don't think YouTube lets you upload videos that are longer than 10 hours yet.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:06

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Fart Car '97 posted:

REMINDER people complained that some of us were posting TOO MANY GIFS

are you serious

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:07

Shanakin: Mar 26, 2010; The whole point of stats are lost if you keep it a secret. Why Didn't you tell the world eh?

Yeah there were some wankers who complained about it. I'll have to work on some gifs of my own.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:10

Sedisp: Jun 20, 2012

Sard posted:

I haven't ever seen anything to indicate that the system would stop the eventual catastrophic effect of a direct hit to the ammo. It could delay it enough for the crew to escape, though. The much improved placement did more to prevent that than anything else. From Steven Zaloga's Armored Thunderbolt:

Because ammo direct hits in real life do not necessarily cause an immediate explosion. In game this is modeled by ammo getting damaged only have a chance of blowing up the tank that goes up higher based on the amount of damage dealt to them.

Direct hit from an atgm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ARjuTKdiIk

For an actual Sherman example wet stowage saw ammo cook offs go from 80% on penetration to a whopping 15%. Sherman's went from being Tommy cookers to notoriously hard to fire nuke.

The pops are the ammo detonating. The purpose of wet stowage is to prevent a single round exploding become all the rounds and people exploding. When it's an acknowledged bug on the CBT forums you probably should stop arguing about it.

As a final note the wet stowage racks are the racks on the bottom. All other ammo is dry storage so even anecdotally saying your ammo seems to be more durable isn't accurate since the majority of your ammo is still in dry storage.

Sedisp fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Feb 18, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:13

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Fart Car '97 posted:

At some point every game thread devolves into pedantic discussion and arguing because what the gently caress else are you supposed to do after you've talked about a thing for thousands of collective hours?

REMINDER people complained that some of us were posting TOO MANY GIFS

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:14

Gamerofthegame: Oct 28, 2010; Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

so

Is the Stug 3, the first German TD, just hot garbage or what? I get that it's basically a metal brick and I don't often get one shotted, but the gun is absolutely terrible. Fighting Lees I can be lucky if I knock out the driver shooting through the port half the time, though can't do damage to it otherwise. All the while the Tier 1 light tank regularly one shots the lot of them - with a bunch higher velocity, too.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:14

Ferrovanadium: Mar 22, 2013; APEX PREDATOR

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Gamerofthegame posted:

so

Is the Stug 3, the first German TD, just hot garbage or what? I get that it's basically a metal brick and I don't often get one shotted, but the gun is absolutely terrible. Fighting Lees I can be lucky if I knock out the driver shooting through the port half the time, though can't do damage to it otherwise. All the while the Tier 1 light tank regularly one shots the lot of them - with a bunch higher velocity, too.

It has a lovely gun and its only good quality-- its frontal armor-- has now been negated by the fact that not only does the M3A1 exist, but it exists only a full BR lower so you're almost guaranteed to encounter it

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:17

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Gamerofthegame posted:

so

Is the Stug 3, the first German TD, just hot garbage or what? I get that it's basically a metal brick and I don't often get one shotted, but the gun is absolutely terrible. Fighting Lees I can be lucky if I knock out the driver shooting through the port half the time, though can't do damage to it otherwise. All the while the Tier 1 light tank regularly one shots the lot of them - with a bunch higher velocity, too.

unlock HEAT, destroy all in your path

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:18

Feindfeuer: Jun 20, 2013; shoot men, receive credits

Posting a gif to remind everyone how awesome the firerate of the M4A2 was when it first was released exclusivly to the germans, which kinda made it deserve a slight RB raise... of course not as much as it got and certainly not when at the very same time they also removed its machine-gun like fire rate. Also I wanted to post a gif.

unrelated low-rider SU-152,

and to keep the bandwith use up, just some random jpg from one of my first battles on kursk, with what was the single soviet reserve tank back during the CBT.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:20

Bolow: Feb 27, 2007

Gamerofthegame posted:

so

Is the Stug 3, the first German TD, just hot garbage or what? I get that it's basically a metal brick and I don't often get one shotted, but the gun is absolutely terrible. Fighting Lees I can be lucky if I knock out the driver shooting through the port half the time, though can't do damage to it otherwise. All the while the Tier 1 light tank regularly one shots the lot of them - with a bunch higher velocity, too.

For the short barreled 75's like the PzIV C/E/F1 and the Stug A you really really need HEAT before you can effectively do loving anything with them. Once you get HEAT shells you can bloop people with your dumb stubby gun from a mile away and annihilate most of the things you'll encounter with ease. The only tank that should give you some problems with HEAT loaded is the T-50

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:28

Sard: May 11, 2012; Certified Poster of Culture.

Sedisp posted:

The pops are the ammo detonating. The purpose of wet stowage is to prevent a single round exploding become all the rounds and people exploding. When it's an acknowledged bug on the CBT forums you probably should stop arguing about it.

As a final note the wet stowage racks are the racks on the bottom. All other ammo is dry storage so even anecdotally saying your ammo seems to be more durable isn't accurate since the majority of your ammo is still in dry storage.

If you're referring to the same reports I'm thinking of then those are bugs about placement, which no one disagrees on. I assume Gaijin is just setting a property on the tank that it has wet storage and now that tank has it on all ammo. If they were setting it per rack they probably wouldn't have messed up on the placement in the first place because they'd refer to some of their documents to see which racks need and notice the correct layout.

In their current placement though, even if Gaijin models this poo poo really well, again:

quote:

This was not enough to stop a complete projectile

Direct hits tearing through it are going to bone you rightfully until they move it all into the center.

Sard fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Feb 18, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:35

AirborneNinja: Jul 27, 2009

Feindfeuer posted:

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:38

Ferrovanadium: Mar 22, 2013; APEX PREDATOR

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-WORST KDR VS CIVILIANS 2015-PRESENT

AirborneNinja posted:

I want something like that as my desktop background now :v:

e: update: totally works as my desktop background

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:48

Sedisp: Jun 20, 2012

Sard posted:

If you're referring to the same reports I'm thinking of then those are bugs about placement, which no one disagrees on. I assume Gaijin is just setting a property on the tank that it has wet storage and now that tank has it on all ammo. If they were setting it per rack they probably wouldn't have messed up on the placement in the first place because they'd refer to some of their documents to see which racks need and notice the correct layout.

I'm more inclined to believe it's not correctly modeled in game on the Shermans since the racks are just directly copy pasted from their 75mm versions it wouldn't surprise me if they also are not modeling wet stowage correctly. This is like a million miles from the original point now and I'm sorry for bothering to continue this. Shermans currently do not have good ammo placement the end.

YellerBill posted:

It has a lovely gun and its only good quality-- its frontal armor-- has now been negated by the fact that not only does the M3A1 exist, but it exists only a full BR lower so you're almost guaranteed to encounter it

Unlock HEAT. There is no wheraboohooing about German TDs allowed. They are all amazing until 7.0.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:49

Ferrovanadium: Mar 22, 2013; APEX PREDATOR

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-WORST KDR VS CIVILIANS 2015-PRESENT

Sedisp posted:

Unlock HEAT. There is no wheraboohooing about German TDs allowed. They are all amazing until 7.0.

I have HEAT. Every time I get within sight of an allied player an M3A1 puts a shell through my transmission. Maybe I'm just getting unlucky.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:51

Sedisp: Jun 20, 2012

YellerBill posted:

I have HEAT. Every time I get within sight of an allied player an M3A1 puts a shell through my transmission. Maybe I'm just getting unlucky.

American lights are tougher to deal with but once you get the velocity down they evaporate like the rest. Shooting Stuarts at full tilt isn't super easy but once you get it they are hosed.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 07:53

Plan Z: May 6, 2012

Shanakin posted:

You know, I thought some of the autismal plane arguments got pretty dumb but I swear tanks bring out a whole new level in people

Plane talk was generally pretty genial, which was nice. The problem with tank talk is that we'll get past the "oh my god this tank is poo poo" talk, and someone who can't be bothered to read anywhere in the topic will bring it right back up again, while poo-pooing any advice.

"No, you don't understand, I am the only person in the game to use this tank. You just don't get it."

Plan Z fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Feb 18, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 08:00

Generation Internet: Jan 18, 2009; Where angels and generals fear to tread.

Fart Car '97 posted:

REMINDER people complained that some of us were posting TOO MANY GIFS

# ? Feb 18, 2015 08:00

Sedisp: Jun 20, 2012

Plan Z posted:

Plane talk was generally pretty genial, which was nice. The problem with tank talk is that we'll get past the "oh my god this tank is poo poo" talk, and someone who can't be bothered to read anywhere in the topic will bring it right back up again, while poo-pooing any advice.

"No, you don't understand, I am the only person in the game to use this tank. You just don't get it."

I will defend my Panzer 3s to the death.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 08:13

Xerxes17: Feb 17, 2011

What's the best shell type for dealing with lightly armored things like the Marder3? I hear it's Shrapnel, but it seems no better than APHE for my 76.2mm Russian guns.

Also the Su-122 loving owns and slam dunking fools in the turret to oneshot them through thier roof armor is awesome. We don't need no drat anti tank rounds! Just more HE! :ussr:

# ? Feb 18, 2015 08:16

Feindfeuer: Jun 20, 2013; shoot men, receive credits

I just keep firing APHE into open toped vehicles cause I tend to not carry HE or Shrapnel as there are not enough valid targets most of the time. Also shrapnel rounds tend to focus a lot of the fragmentation in a circular plane around the shell, which while a rather accurate simulation, doesn't help me in getting through the gun shield that is in front of the exploding shell. While I've killed SU-76 and Marder III with HE and Frag shells that missed their intended target, or hit it while they were standing next to it, for actual direct fire I just blast APHE into the hull, right below the gun-shield, which is better armored and therefore has a better chance of setting off the APHE fuze while still beeing close enough to murder the gun crew.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 08:21

Azran: Sep 3, 2012; And what should one do to be remembered?

Xerxes17 posted:

What's the best shell type for dealing with lightly armored things like the Marder3? I hear it's Shrapnel, but it seems no better than APHE for my 76.2mm Russian guns.

Also the Su-122 loving owns and slam dunking fools in the turret to oneshot them through thier roof armor is awesome. We don't need no drat anti tank rounds! Just more HE!

I just use normal APHE. If you penetrate the front you may be able to hit the ammo racks somewhere. APCR if I really want a crew member dead right now.

On another note, people should stop using HE for half-trucks. It's hilarious how you can shoot off the door, wheel or even rear view mirror and it will count as a kill.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 08:23

Plan Z: May 6, 2012

Xerxes17 posted:

What's the best shell type for dealing with lightly armored things like the Marder3? I hear it's Shrapnel, but it seems no better than APHE for my 76.2mm Russian guns.

Shrapnel is good if you can penetrate, but I agree, I prefer to just have APHE loaded, as it will detonate further on in than shrapnel will.

For the Marder specifically, if you can hit the chassis, then your normal tank-fighting AP rounds will do it. There's just a lot of ammo to detonate in there, as well as two crewmen, so it's where you should aim first. If you're stuck aiming at the superstructure, then it can be a crapshoot. Rake it with MG fire, and shoot whatever shells you wish at the gunner's slit (the opening to the left of the gun). I guess these can just be general tips for these types of tanks.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 08:28

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

Subyng posted:

how the hell do I shoot down bombers jeezus

I've had a lot of fun hunting bombers so while I probably don't know as much as most I've found the trick is to ignore the center and rake a wing trying to blow out the engine or ignite the fuel in there. Don't stay on their tail, they will shoot your pilot out. Keep climbing and diving on them instead, they can't do poo poo about it and pubbies never protect their bombers.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 09:38

NoNotTheMindProbe: Aug 9, 2010; pony porn was here

Fans posted:

Keep climbing and diving on them instead, they can't do poo poo about it and pubbies never protect their bombers.

This is the best way. Come down on top of them and target their cockpit or engines. Just look out for defensive MGs on the roof.

e: Or just fly a Ki-45 and bloop gun them in the tail from outside their MG range.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 09:42

Dezztroy: Dec 28, 2012

While I sort of like the buffed crew hp in that there is less "welp my loader died from a tiny bit of shrapnel now my tank is useless", it is a bit silly when you have a guy survive an 88mm shell going through his chest and then explode inside of him.

Dezztroy fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Feb 18, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 10:04

ukle: Nov 28, 2005

Thronde posted:

Finally got my Walker. Holy poo poo it feels so loving good to punt Jadgpanthers in the nuts now.

Wait till you get the Sabot round, and get uptiered - especially into BR 8.0 Max matches. Its the only tank that performs better against higher BR opponents than lower, as the big heavy things are to slow to keep up with it, and the Sabot can pen everything in the side / back

# ? Feb 18, 2015 10:16

EmpyreanFlux: Mar 1, 2013; The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!

The armored bins are only for shrapnel protection, actually penetration into the bin isn't going to save you because you've only created a loving claymore as the shells released energy needs to go somewhere. Also I think the more terrifying thought is that based on Sherman tanker testimony, in that video posted of the Centurion there are still crewmen alive after the first brew up :gonk:

(in the hypothetical it would be crewed).

Xerxes17 posted:

What's the best shell type for dealing with lightly armored things like the Marder3? I hear it's Shrapnel, but it seems no better than APHE for my 76.2mm Russian guns.

Also the Su-122 loving owns and slam dunking fools in the turret to oneshot them through their roof armor is awesome. We don't need no drat anti tank rounds! Just more HE!

For lightly armored vehicles, either really good HE, or just learning their anatomy. A good thing to remember is the fuze sensitivity on rounds - penetrating less than listed will not cause any HE filler to autofragment the round. A good way to avoid this, and to cause maximum spall, is to hit the highest level of armor that you can still penetrate, in the Marders case it's the gun. As Plan Z also suggested, hit the chassis and try to kill the driver/radioman in there (hopefully together). If you do, the loader will hop into the drivers spot in about 8 seconds allowing you to knock the tank out with a second shot in the same exact spot.

One of the best examples of forcing a round to fragment is in an M103 video where they were testing the M469 HEAT. If it hit less than ~300mm of armor, it basically behaved like APCR, but if the HEAT round penetrated greater than 300mm it actually spalled like crazy. All solid shot and HEAT will do this so keep it in mind. (although apparently they're still not fragmenting enough?)

# ? Feb 18, 2015 10:25

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

3 people on this team managed to kill an enemy tank

:negative:

# ? Feb 18, 2015 10:41

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

BBJoey posted:

3 people on this team managed to kill an enemy tank

I didn't take a screenshot but I had a wonderful game last night where I was the only person to get any kills. I've no idea what the hell my team was doing to gently caress up that badly.

# ? Feb 18, 2015 10:43

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 07:07

Feindfeuer: Jun 20, 2013; shoot men, receive credits

BBJoey posted:

3 people on this team managed to kill an enemy tank

It's OK, I just returned from my first battle today with 14 kills and two captures, we still lost. Sometimes you just can't carry hard enough. :smith:

# ? Feb 18, 2015 11:05

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