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Chard posted:Does marking actually increase the enemies' odds to attack that character though? The tooltip, I think, says that it makes it likelier that they will take more damage, but in my limited experience mobs will still attack anyone they feel like, marked or not.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:04
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Genocyber posted:He's mean the BH's camp buff is the really good one. Well that went right over my head. Woosh. Hell, stack all 3 on him and let him go to town.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:06
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I would pay a ton of money for an alternate combat narrator who sounds like the guy from NBA JAM.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:11
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I haven't seen anything hard and fast about weapons or armor first. Different classes get different amounts out of weapon upgrades, while the armor upgrades are more consistent. Armor is all +5 dodge and +4-5 HP for most classes, weapons seem to generally be +1 dmg and crit, with some people getting speed at rank 1. Leper gets the most mileage out of upgrades, his level 1 weapon gives 1 dmg, 1 crit, and 2 spd, while his armor gives 5 dodge and 7 hp. Personally I think the armor upgrades provide a pretty significant increase on survivability (even the high dodge classes are getting a ~33% increase on dodge and ~20% increase on hp), while the weapon upgrade is potentially lost in just the normal rng range. The best thing about the leper's push is that it has a 15 higher accuracy than his attack, and the damage is the same penalty as on hew, -40%. He hits hard enough that he can still 1-shot lower hp enemies with it, and there are a lot of enemy comps where there is a high damage low hp guy in one of the front two slots. Pushing a melee to slot 3 is sometimes good depending on who was in slot 3 before. I really like the idea of expanding the leper positioning on some of his self-buffs and giving them +1 forward though. If you get the wine skeleton into position 1 they only do the little knife attack, gun bandit only does single target in position 1, and most of the melee enemies can't attack from position 4. Moving the enemy is a really good way to make them unable to do their really scary attacks, so if you're not able to kill a guy off that first round it can be a great move. Depending on the comp, a pull/push can be a lot stronger than straight damage. Perfect example is if you have an occultist with some +spd (camp buff, maybe trinkets/quirks) and the pull skill, the 3 bandit groups are really easy. Pull the gun guy to the front, now he does a weak single target, and dagger bandit spends his turns passing. Kill off dagger and fatty and then the gun guy. Edit: let me start a new game following strict provisioning that you have and see how soon I can upgrade guys. I know running low light is boosting me significantly, and I also take some extra supply stuff normally that tends to pay out pretty good. Maybe I'll lose both guys in tutorial as well. Off to a good start, it gave me a leper and another vestral in addition to the default vestral and plague doc! ZypherIM fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 19:15
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ZypherIM posted:
Yeah. That's the thing. There's a lot of stuff that's good advice for new players (strict provisioning, etc.) that ceases to be good advice once you learn how to play the game better. At this point my instinct is that "don't upgrade the Blacksmith till you get level 3 characters" is in that category (but I admit I could be wrong). If you know what you're doing and can tell good quirks from bad and know how to put together an A-Team party composition then investing in upgrading an A-Team's worth of armor early on is probably a smart move. On the other hand, I suspect that if you're still making lots of basic fuckups it's probably better to save your cash and spend it sparingly and carefully, just buying at most a few key upgrades.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:24
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MacheteZombie posted:Could have sworn the vestal had an Acc buff camp buff as well. You are right about the Bounty Hunter's though. Oh well. She does, acc+dodge. You stack them all on a Leper with rabies!
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Feb 17, 2015 19:24
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I have found leapers to be pretty good if you use two of them and use their +protect stress heal every other turn. They're pretty much invulnerable and most enemies can only target the first three positions, so you've only got one hero that could possibly die. Of course, crusaders do just as much damage and are more versatile, but leapers are probably the best pure tank.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:27
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I like the leaper's big chop that hits the first 2 rows and does respectable damage. After a camp and maybe with a buff they hit fine.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:31
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Dackel posted:She does, acc+dodge. You stack them all on a Leper with rabies! I've been trying to get Rabies on my best Leper for exactly this reason. Hell, at the moment he does his self buff, then the BH buff and then he basically can't miss even after his penalty from Revenge. His damage is phenomenal.
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Feb 17, 2015 19:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah. That's the thing. There's a lot of stuff that's good advice for new players (strict provisioning, etc.) that ceases to be good advice once you learn how to play the game better. At this point my instinct is that "don't upgrade the Blacksmith till you get level 3 characters" is in that category (but I admit I could be wrong). If you know what you're doing and can tell good quirks from bad and know how to put together an A-Team party composition then investing in upgrading an A-Team's worth of armor early on is probably a smart move. On the other hand, I suspect that if you're still making lots of basic fuckups it's probably better to save your cash and spend it sparingly and carefully, just buying at most a few key upgrades. Yea I completely understand the idea, I've just got a feeling that unless they pull really, really bad quirks (the ones that are also super obviously terrible) that they'll get a good return on investment with a bit earlier upgrades. With a basic outline of "here are some decent party comps, try to build one of these", they should be able to progress a bit easier. With losing my starter two guys, beating 2 shorts and 1 medium following strict provisioning(and maintaining full light) I've gotten enough heirlooms to unlock 4 guys/week, a 2-slot stress reliever in the abbey(3rd upgrade), rank 2 skills, rank 2 armor, the first two sanitarium upgrades, and have 18.9k gold. I've fired a few guys, and have sent 3 guys through stress relief. It costed around 9k to buy skill ranks, armor, and a couple different skills for some of my guys, leaving me at just over 9k left in my bank. A couple of them have some fairly bad quirks, but none of the super bad ones. So I'd say if they're following provisioning, aim for those amounts of building upgrades and 20k in the bank, they can pretty safely start to upgrade a team.
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Feb 17, 2015 20:51
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This is in answer to the question about upgrading weapons vs upgrading armour and the answer is that +5 dodge on top of the extra HP is just an enormous increase in power level compared to a slight boost in weapon damage and should basically always be done first with no real exceptions.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:09
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Chard posted:Does marking actually increase the enemies' odds to attack that character though? The tooltip, I think, says that it makes it likelier that they will take more damage, but in my limited experience mobs will still attack anyone they feel like, marked or not. Pretty sure one of the loading screen tips says this is correct. Something like "Be careful <enemy>'s marking ability will let its friends know what to attack!"
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Feb 17, 2015 23:20
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Demicol posted:Pretty sure one of the loading screen tips says this is correct. Something like "Be careful <enemy>'s marking ability will let its friends know what to attack!" It was the fungi I think, but I honestly can't tell sometimes.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:32
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I've had marked guys get focus fired; not fun times
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Feb 17, 2015 23:59
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I suspect it's just like how only certain (well, one) hero abilities are affected by marks, not all enemies can take advantage of them. Those groping swipe mushroom guys certainly seem to.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:14
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Rascyc posted:With lunge nerfed, he has pretty much the best AoE attack in the game now. It's just limited to the front two obviously. Wait a minute--they nerfed the Grave Robber's Lunge? How?
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Feb 18, 2015 00:17
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Time_pants posted:Wait a minute--they nerfed the Grave Robber's Lunge? How? Pretty sure he meant breakthrough, not lunge. At least based on the rest of the conversation. I was using some lunge action earlier today to great effect still.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:26
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ZypherIM posted:Pretty sure he meant breakthrough, not lunge. At least based on the rest of the conversation. Oh thank God.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:27
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Speaking of lunge, what other classes have movement abilities that provide good synergy with grave robber? I like the idea of a highly mobile party that can roll with the pushes and pulls.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:41
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More grave robbers, lunging forever! Crusader is okay, with holy lance. Gets less good once you clear out the back two rows though. Highwayman is always fine, and pretty much always has something effective to do in any of the front three spots. I've done a Crusader, Highwayman, Grave Robber, Vestal team a bunch, and it is always solid. Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 00:48
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lunatikfringe posted:Speaking of lunge, what other classes have movement abilities that provide good synergy with grave robber? I like the idea of a highly mobile party that can roll with the pushes and pulls. The Highwaymen and Jester both combo very well with Robber, double or even triple Robber is also pretty good. Here's a good primer It's not the best damage, but it's got the nice bonus of never having to worry about your party order getting shuffled around when you're surprised, makes them excellent for pitch black loot runs.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:50
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Time_pants posted:Wait a minute--they nerfed the Grave Robber's Lunge? How? yeah sorry, I meant break through.
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Feb 18, 2015 00:54
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lunatikfringe posted:Speaking of lunge, what other classes have movement abilities that provide good synergy with grave robber? I like the idea of a highly mobile party that can roll with the pushes and pulls. I think jester is the only one who can move the same distance, if you're going to try to use speed-affecting trinkets to get a perfect lunge conga line going.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:02
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Enemy attacks have targeting limitations and position requirements, and enemies don't have basic move actions (though some have move forward and attack attacks). Push the front line enemies into the back (or pull the back ranks forward) and they often won't be able to use their best attacks. I've even made skeletons pass their turn because they were in the far back and couldn't do anything. Controlling enemy position is quite powerful.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:13
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There are several classes with pretty good +forward skills that can chain together pretty well. Crusader, grave robber, highwayman, and jester all have some pretty strong skills that move them forward. Look at how you want to cycle guys around, and their options for when they're not in the perfect spot for how you want to setup your party. Crusader has holy lance, which is extremely good in the ruins, and decent elsewhere. 10% crit and +15% dmg against unholy. It requires there to be a 3rd or 4th enemy slot going on, and the rest of his kit is position 1 or 2, so you'll be walking him forward if he is in the back and their back is gone, or rely on some +back skills from your other guys. I guess if you have inspiring cry you can use that from the back for some stress relief while your other guys do clean-up. Grave robber has lunge, which is a +40% dmg with 10% crit skill that hits any of the first 3 enemy spots. She can follow up with shadow fade, which is a solid stun against spot 1 or 2, +back 1, and a dodge buff all on the same skill. Lunge followed by someone else using a +forward move to push her to spot 2 basically lets you alternate between a strong attack and your defensive skill. If you need more damage output, or have another guy moving her back eventually, pick to the face or throw dagger are both solid damage options. Highwayman is sort of the opposite of grave robber, in that his advancing skill is weaker while his front action is stronger. Duelist's advance is +forward 1, -20% dmg, but can hit any spot. Once he is in position 1, point blank shot is +50% dmg against their front line guy. Note that being ranged, it gets the bonus from cleaning guns camp skill (+10 ACC, +20% dmg, +5% crit). He has a solid set of options for positions 1-3 if he gets stuck in there. Jester is probably the weakest of the 4 for a combo type move, and would be a more "in addition" that one of the mainstays. He'd either be for pushing another guy backwards or as sort of a clean-up guy. Dirk stab is base damage and moves him to position 1. From there he can use solo (which is pretty poo poo I think, a -10 acc for the enemy party if you hit), or heroic end, which is a +33% dmg hit with a solid crit chance. After that you'd use the fact that he can move to any position in 1 move to shove him back to spot 4 and start jamming out till his debuff is gone or the fight is over.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:14
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Lotish posted:I've been trying to get Rabies on my best Leper for exactly this reason. Hell, at the moment he does his self buff, then the BH buff and then he basically can't miss even after his penalty from Revenge. His damage is phenomenal. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Darkest Dungeon - I've been trying to get Rabies on my best Leper for exactly this reason.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:18
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I get rabies on my dudes all the time in the Warrens. That puke attack is pretty annoying.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:31
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Is there a bug in the game where if you deal lethal damage to an enemy at the same time you force it to switch positions it will survive? There have been a few times where I've used the Bounty Hunter's chain yank attack where I'm pretty sure the enemy should have died but instead it gets pulled to the front and survives with 1 health.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:48
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Rascyc posted:I get rabies on my dudes all the time in the Warrens. That puke attack is pretty annoying. That puke can give you any kind of disease though. If you actually want rabies, let the dogs in the weald maul your guys. Great way to get rabies on your Vestal!
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Feb 18, 2015 01:54
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Is there a bug in the game where if you deal lethal damage to an enemy at the same time you force it to switch positions it will survive? There have been a few times where I've used the Bounty Hunter's chain yank attack where I'm pretty sure the enemy should have died but instead it gets pulled to the front and survives with 1 health. I've killed things with my occultist's tentacle pull before.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:57
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I noticed in one of the earlier patch notes they mentioned rounding up enemy health so that enemies would no longer have 0 health, is this related to that somehow? I'm not clear on how you can deal a fractional amount of damage, but in the notes from build 7547:quote:http://steamcommunity.com/games/262060/announcements/detail/177100196316127138 Ramc posted:
Hieronymous Alloy posted:and then you've got a lot of sunk costs in a hero that your probably need to dismiss anyway, just because of the backlog he'll create at the sanitarium. 
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Feb 18, 2015 02:02
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Things i'd like to see: Ruins: Killing a necromancer adds 10 weeks to the doom counter. (you have X weeks until the skeleton army marches loving on) Weald: Killing a hag adds 1 new adventurer / week to the stage coach. (Remove stage coach upgrades. They're dumb.) Warrens: Killing swine royalty raises the minimum level of your adventurers by 1. Cove: Killing X Raises the level cap by 1. DD: You win the game when you reach the bottom.
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Feb 18, 2015 02:31
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Is there a bug in the game where if you deal lethal damage to an enemy at the same time you force it to switch positions it will survive? There have been a few times where I've used the Bounty Hunter's chain yank attack where I'm pretty sure the enemy should have died but instead it gets pulled to the front and survives with 1 health. Well. Enemies have HP with 1 decimal point just like you. The problem is it only shows whole numbers, but doesn't ignore the decimal. This resulted in enemies "surviving" with 0HP. The way the devs dealt with this is (as someone before me has said) that they won't show 0HP to confuse you, but rather 1HP. Yup, this sure isn't confusing at all.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:50
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I'm pretty sure they changed it so that the number always rounds up, so you shouldn't see miraculous survivals anymore. Maybe there is an edge case where when they're at full hp it can be off? Honestly I've yet to see something live with 1hp when it should have died.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:59
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What does Protection actually do? I've tried both the Leper and Crusader's defensive skill, and no way is it a simple -20% damage taken. Incoming damage drops by a lot more than that. Very often I see these guys being crit for only 1.
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Feb 18, 2015 03:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Taunts would probably be too powerful. A skill that let him absorb attacks made against another party member, or maybe gave the party +PROT, that could maybe work. I like the idea of giving his +self ACC buff a +1 Move Forward also. What if Withstand made him mark himself, or is that too much of a taunt mechanic? Edit: I should read the thread. Mushrooman fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 04:03
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Snow Job posted:What does Protection actually do? I've tried both the Leper and Crusader's defensive skill, and no way is it a simple -20% damage taken. Incoming damage drops by a lot more than that. Very often I see these guys being crit for only 1. Swine King crit one of my crusaders past a 22% prot buff, and an additional 5-8% prot from trinkets to still deal 26 damage to me. Considering most hits do 1-5 damage on crit with those buffs, I don't know how much damage that attack would have done without the extra protection, but I'm assuming a lot. With respect to your actual question on how it works, I have no idea.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:20
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Snow Job posted:What does Protection actually do? I've tried both the Leper and Crusader's defensive skill, and no way is it a simple -20% damage taken. Incoming damage drops by a lot more than that. Very often I see these guys being crit for only 1. From eyeballing it? It looks like Prot gives damage reduction on a vaguely exponential basis. When you have a ton of it, you're right, it barely even matters how hard dudes hit. I am suspicious that this is precisely the reason that armor upgrades don't give you more Prot the way you would reasonably expect. It instead buffs every defensive stat that ISNT Prot.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:23
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Yea I don't know how exactly it works, but if you want the easiest time you've ever had go find yourself 4 sun cloaks and keep that torch running above 75.
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Feb 18, 2015 07:14
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Just checked the modding forum on steam, people are already making rebalance mods and new classes. I hope this game develops an active modding community. Can't wait for porn mods
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Feb 18, 2015 13:17
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