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Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality? I know it's dumb, but my current job involves getting screamed at by my boss for her mistakes, and I find that really at the end of the day all I want to do is eat a nice meal without making it ($$), go for a nice drive ($) smoke a cigarette or 5($$$), and then come play some new video game or watch some show I've never seen before ($$). I'm aware that this is significantly lengthening the amount of time before I can take steps towards where I want my life to be (part-time contract/telecommute work, 4G hotspot, fix up my VW camper interior, dog, America), but at the end of my day I'm just worn down to the point where I often can't make myself want to do fun activities that require effort and do not drain my money and/or kill me. I'm currently trying to get into a better work situation, but in the mean time, every time I look at my bank account I'm annoyed with myself.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:37
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poopinmymouth posted:Don't get me started on baby stuff. I have bought nearly everything from the Icelandic craigslist equivalent, saving a fortune. We got all the clothes he needs for his entire first year for about 100 dollars. I'm talking designer stuff, some with tags on it, adidas toddler suits, 66 north (expensive Icelandic brand), a bag of socks, of shoes, hats, gloves, everything. Add on an outdoor onesie also purchased used, and we were set. I also got a jogging stroller for 40 bux used. Man, it's tough to find a deal though. 90% of the listings are either garbage that should just be thrown away (faded, stained clothes) or not realistically discounted for the level of use (stroller used for 3 kids over the course of 5 years at 20% off retail) That's just craigslist.txt but y'know
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Feb 12, 2015 01:39
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Video games are fun, easy to do, and can be pretty cheap. But it sounds like you should mostly be focusing on getting a new job.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:40
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Cicero posted:Video games are fun, easy to do, and can be pretty cheap. I agree. The fix to feeling terrible after work is to not work where you work.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:02
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surc posted:Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality?
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Feb 12, 2015 02:05
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surc posted:Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality? A lovely job is a lovely job, it'll gently caress up your whole life. A bad mood will follow you out of the office every day. As others have said, focus on that. Meditation and practicing mindfulness can be a great stress reliever. It sounds crazy to some people, especially if you see meditation as an Asian or hippie-dippie "sit lotus style near some incense and say ommmm a whole lot," but just sitting or laying down in a quiet place, breathing slowly, and focusing on yourself, on actually being in that moment, can really help get your head sorted. I say this as someone who was completely skeptical of mediation three years ago, but after being diagnosed with a stress-based immune disease (when I get freaked out my body starts killing its platelets and I risk bleeding to death internally) and trying different drugs and therapies I stopped rolling my eyes and actually tried meditation. I'm a believer now. I can calm myself down in stressful situations by closing my eyes, breathing, and focusing on the moment. During the first three years I was dealing with my illness, I was bouncing from drug to drug, being weened off one, seeing a flareup, get lightheaded with "blood rashes" from broken capillaries at best and almost die at worst, and trying another one. Since I started meditating three years ago, I've been off medication with no flareups. Zero. I'm also more of a positive person than I was as I've started to reflect how great my life is, even if a particular moment or part of it is stressful or painful. I try to meditate every morning now, before my shower, for ten minutes. Sometimes if I'm running late I'll just do it for a minute before hopping in, or before taking a poo poo, or when I'm sitting in the parking lot before walking in to the office. I just take a moment to be present and to remember that all things end. Even this, for whatever "this" happens to mean in that moment. Soon, I'll be home with my family and my dogs. It changes the way you think. Not at first, not all at once, and not if you're not actually trying. I'm not saying that mediating will solve all your problems, that you'll suddenly love your job after doing it for ten minutes a day, or that you should spend hours a day doing it. Get some video/board games or take up walking/hiking/cycling to kill time, if you need to kill time. If you feel productive, make something. Find a hobby you enjoy that might one day make you some beer money and do it. Okay that's enough meditation talk for the FIRE thread.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:43
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surc posted:Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality? One of my 2015 financial goals is to spend no more than $50/month on alcohol at home. It's a somewhat modest goal: we aren't adjusting our bar spending, we don't count the odd six pack here and there for a friend's party, and it's only a reduction of $30-$40 a month. But it's been transformative to post the goal in the goals thread and know that I'm coming in every month with an update. What I'm saying is pick a number, post it in the goals thread, and do monthly updates with me. e: here's a MMM post on the subject: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/11/12/got-a-serious-goal-make-it-public/
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Feb 12, 2015 03:05
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Inverse Icarus posted:A lovely job is a lovely job, it'll gently caress up your whole life. A bad mood will follow you out of the office every day. As others have said, focus on that. Yeah, I'd echo this. But if you want something cheaper than video games to kill time before you find your ~dream job~ then hit up the library and read some
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Feb 12, 2015 03:06
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poopinmymouth posted:I don't get how you got that out of the blog at all. The guy might be a bit manic in his writing style, but he very obviously has a ton of stuff happening that he enjoys. It's just constructive stuff that either costs little/nothing, or ads worth to his property. Why would improving someone else's software/products for the tiniest fraction of the profit be somehow more fulfilling than getting to keep nearly all the profit that you generate? Maybe there is something to be said by missing a team environment vs working on your own, but he has his spouse, his kid, and does lots of meetups and group projects, so he is getting that too. Also, Netflix is pretty FI. surc posted:Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality? No Wave fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 03:58
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surc posted:Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality? There's no easy answer here. I worked for a horrible, horrible person for four years, she destroyed my self confidence, stressed me out constantly, and made me more miserable than I ever could have possibly imagined. I was interviewing for positions internally that were a level underneath me. I was seriously considering a call center job, and a few times I came close to just straight up quitting with nothing lined up at all. My honest-to-god advice to you is to eat your meals, go for your drive, smoke your smokes, and play your video games, and don't feel bad about it at all. You're in survival mode right now. Once you get into a better work situation you won't believe how much easier everything else will be. No Wave posted:Purely mental shifts only tend to work short-term... You're feeling the constant gentle pressure to reward yourself, and people inevitably succumb to the constant gentle pressures. What kind of job/career would make you want to excel at it, even if constant improvement (and a reasonable/realistic career trajectory) was the only reward for kicking rear end? It's not his career, it sounds like he just works for a shithead. I worked for a shithead, and it had me doubting my career too. But as soon as I moved internally I fell in love with financial services again. I work 50-60 hours a week now, and the days just fly by, I can't wait to get back to the office tomorrow. Every time I do something good my boss lets me know it, and I have great co-workers.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:12
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surc posted:Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality? I think it cannot be emphasised that these are obviously your mechanics for coping with the stress built up at work and simply cutting them out without changing anything else could be disastrous for your well-being.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:16
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No Wave posted:I certainly didn't imply or say that in the post you quoted No Wave posted:My main thought on MMM is that he doesn't sound like he has much fun in life. surc posted:Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality? In addition to the advice about a better job, to answer your current question, as long as you made the choice consciously, go for it. If smokes, eating out, and those other things make life better for you, and you have weighed the long term cost of retiring later (or never) vs going without in the present, that's a choice only you can make. I read a good quote on the afford anything blog (which is also pretty awesome), she suggested people with their own houses get a roommate to save on rent (which she and her partner do, despite being in their 30s and owning 7 rental units). One of the negatives people might say was "but I value my privacy" and she replied to this hypothetical with, "Yes, but do you value it 500 dollars a month?". If your answer is yes, great, you made a conscious choice, but some people just do the base initial evaluation of "I want to eat sushi cause it's good" without thinking of how much sushi 3-4x a week ads up to in a year, and what that does to long term savings. poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 10:32
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surc posted:Obviously this would be pretty anecdotal, but any mental tips for getting out of a "done with work, gotta unwind!(eat out/buy alchohol/buy media)" mentality? Ever consider "retro-gaming"? There's a sub-redit about it. Though I'm not really into that scene, I've been playing a lot of Diablo II lately, which my dad paid for back in 2000. The only costs of playing it are time and the electricity to run my computer. When you strive for financial independence, you begin to realize everything in life is relative, including the things that make you happy. Why does a new game make you happier than an old one? Fancier graphics? Maybe. But also because some humans somewhere recently put a lot of work into producing this new thing for you to enjoy, and that makes you feel good. And a lot of other humans are simultaneously enjoying the same game, so there's some loose, bullshit-based sense of community too. But it's bullshit. Play old games. They can provide just as much joy, and cost a lot less money. Rick Rickshaw fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 14:07
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Rick Rickshaw posted:But it's bullshit. Play old games. They can provide just as much joy, and cost a lot less money. This is what I did when I almost impulse bought a (refurbished) WiiU. I figured, I have all these old games already. I have a Steam library of games from purchasing a couple of the Indie/Humble Bundles. Why am I buying newer games that will likely be no more fun than the ones I already have? Also, Rocksmith with copious amounts of CDLC. I have logged 250 hours on RS2014, and it feels great knowing I'm actually improving in guitar playing.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:31
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You don´t even have to play so old games. Just buy all your games a year or two later during steam sale. You can get them 75-90% off. If you buy games on release date, you are bad with money.
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Feb 12, 2015 15:36
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Azur posted:If you buy games on release date, you are bad with money. Blah, I'm sick of this sentiment. I buy new games constantly, but I finish them up quickly and resell them to people at work for 80%+ of what I initially paid. If you get lucky, the preorder or "limited edition" DLC or whatever can go for $5-$10 on eBay to crazy collector addicts, too. Reselling is your friend. Buying digital games that you can't resell if they're available in disc form for about the same price is bad with money. Edit: vvv I would genuinely rather play Doom than pretty much any modern FPS, and actually started playing it again this week after grabbing the entire Doom collection for $7.50 on sale. vvv Dr. Eldarion fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 15:50
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A new game costs like $70 now, right? Most places I've been, 70 bucks is like a couple's sushi night out with drinks. You might prefer the sushi night (I genuinely do), but the 20+ hours of stress recuperation you get from the game is probably a better use of money than the 3+ hours you get from the night out if you're striving for efficiency. My point is not that we should min/max our stress recuperation purchases, it's that this is something to be aware of, which is why we're talking about it now. You'll probably be just as happy if you choose one recreation purchase, but most people will mindlessly choose both and cheapen the benefits of each by failing to reflect on the whole thing. It's also kind of a weird argument that old games are better than new ones. I wouldn't say that Doom is a better FPS than COD Modern Warfare Vietnam 3000 Edition 4. They're insufferable for different reasons but the modern game is objectively better in a lot of ways other than graphics that generally make it more pleasant. Same with Civ 2 vs. Civ 5.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:37
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I thought the argument framed was that a 8 month old game is still 'new' as far as industry goes, but can be purchased at a fraction of the launch price. 50%-60% off. That's hardly Doom vs COD. Steam has crazy sales multiple times a year and it's a great time to stock up. Nothing wrong with buying a new game, but you could buy 2 semi-new games for the same cost. Maybe we can agree that Pre-Ordering a new game is dumb for a variety of reasons.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:05
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Video games are, compared to many hobbies, a pretty cheap form of recreation if you don't go overboard. As long as you don't let them ruin your health, social, and/or work life.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:14
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BossRighteous posted:Maybe we can agree that Pre-Ordering a new game is dumb for a variety of reasons. The best is pre-ordering a new console game digitally.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:26
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Thanks for the replies thread! I'm actually really trying to incorporate exercise and meditation into my life in a consistent manner, but I'm also in a "time-claustrophobia" mindset, where anything that cuts into what I consider my 'free time' even if it's something I elect to do, takes on this horrible slant. Obviously not the ideal state of mind, but I really just feel too physically and emotionally drained at the end of the day to do much about it. I will take to heart what a bunch of people have said, and keep my vices and sanity going until I can get myself into a better work situation. I think a large part of the weight of the situation comes from the fact that I feel pretty isolated in it. If I talk about my unhappiness with my job, or my attempts to find a better situation to my friends, they all reply with basically "Yeah, work sucks, that's the deal." which is such a frustrating attitude to come up against. So thanks thread, your encouragement to keep truckin' and anecdotes that remind me that other people have had lovely jobs and escaped was exactly what I needed.  Also yes, I already play videogames and read books, and they are both excellent! I've been falling back on books more lately, as I PC game and would have to buy a new graphics card to get DX11 working. My next computer purchase is going to be a desktop replacement laptop, so I'm figuring I'll hold off and just get the upgrades as part of the laptop purchase. (Also, digital all the way-- I just wait for the deep discounts on steam sales) surc fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 23:05
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poopinmymouth posted:In addition to the advice about a better job, to answer your current question, as long as you made the choice consciously, go for it. If smokes, eating out, and those other things make life better for you, and you have weighed the long term cost of retiring later (or never) vs going without in the present, that's a choice only you can make. Wow, that's ludicrous. They're almost certainly earning a minimum of $2.5-3k/mo in passive income, beside what they've saved, and they're living with Craigslist roomies. That's a bridge too far for me.
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Feb 20, 2015 15:01
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Rick Rickshaw posted:When you strive for financial independence, you begin to realize everything in life is relative, including the things that make you happy. Why does a new game make you happier than an old one? Fancier graphics? Maybe. But also because some humans somewhere recently put a lot of work into producing this new thing for you to enjoy, and that makes you feel good. And a lot of other humans are simultaneously enjoying the same game, so there's some loose, bullshit-based sense of community too. There's a weird socratic strain in the FI movement that, taken too far, constrains FIers rather than liberating them. DO attempt to understand why you want to spend money on something - DON'T assume that your reasons and inner motivations are bullshit or just plain wrong. The solution is never to settle for the milkmaid and claim she's just as good as a princess (paraphrasing, but I guess we'd call that classist now). No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 00:45
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Yeah, I never get why people like that guy that retired at like 30 in a trailer with 3 kids so much. Like uh, maybe you could work until you're 35 so your kids can get braces eventually. But then again I guess he basically is still working so maybe the joke is on anyone that listened to him in the first place.
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Feb 21, 2015 00:50
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Droo posted:Like uh, maybe you could work until you're 35 so your kids can get braces eventually. quote:Aiming to disrupt the status quo, two companies, SmileCareClub and CrystalBraces, the company that Mr. Hofford is working with, now offer aligners remotely so adults and older teenagers can straighten their teeth at home for $900 to $2,100, depending on the complexity of their teeth-straightening needs.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:11
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No Wave posted:It's not really bullshit. In most cases you won't gain much from doing the more expensive thing, but sometimes you will. Following new '70s music closely in the '70s was probably way more exciting than researching it now, and being into SNES in its prime was something way different from going back and playing the games now even if you can get them all for free more conveniently online today. The early days of WoW were really, really cool. New stuff is cool and neat and and it's really fun to see how the envelope is being pushed. There isn't an easy and free way to be on the cutting edge of anything, but maybe it suggests that you should find some way to have your career address that desire instead of/in addition to your leisure. Agreed. There's a middle ground where you're not living with craigslist randos at age 60, but also not dropping $6/day on starbucks and buying a new car every 3 years. FI when done right just involves scrutinizing your expenses so that you're only spending money on things that really have value to you, which is very subjective. Sometimes dropping $100 at a bar is downright dumb, sometimes its worth every penny - depends on the context. But in general, everyone has wasteful spending that does not make them happier to cut which will lead to substantially earlier retirements than the standard age 65.
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Feb 21, 2015 02:43
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Swingline posted:Agreed. There's a middle ground where you're not living with craigslist randos at age 60, but also not dropping $6/day on starbucks and buying a new car every 3 years. FI when done right just involves scrutinizing your expenses so that you're only spending money on things that really have value to you, which is very subjective. Sometimes dropping $100 at a bar is downright dumb, sometimes its worth every penny - depends on the context. But in general, everyone has wasteful spending that does not make them happier to cut which will lead to substantially earlier retirements than the standard age 65. Exactly. Most people have so much low hanging fruit in their lives it's ridiculous. Just take that poo poo out and you're golden. Now excuse me I'm about to go drink my Glenlivet 15 because it's delicious and it wants to be inside of me.
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Feb 21, 2015 03:06
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Some FIers get way too much of a frugalboner and turn into those people that think eating more than rice & beans, living in a fancier apartment, or driving a nicer car are all unequivocally 'bad with money'. The reason I can afford to enjoy a few of the finer things in life is because I have mostly cut out wasteful spending that doesn't improve my quality of life according to my tastes. I still save 40%+ of my gross every year AND I'm greatly enjoying life in the here and now.
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Feb 21, 2015 04:01
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Cicero posted:Good news, there's a startup for that! My wife used to work for an orthodontist. The ortho did Invisalign, which is the expensive orthodontist version of this. In the early days of Invisalign, orthodontists ran the show and you had to go there to get it done. There was a default treatment plan based on the impressions, that the orthodontists would tweak and customize to meet the treatment goals they determined. Now? Any dentist can do it. They just take impressions, send it in the mail, and the company does the rest of the work for you. Dentists have no training or expertise on how to run ortho treatment. Orthodontists are the top-tier dental school graduates who want to keep going and become orthodontists. This at-home kit for impressions and having the company do it for you is really no different from going to a dentist for Invisalign, because in every case, the presence of the dentist is doing nothing for you but adding cost.
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Feb 21, 2015 04:33
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Guinness posted:Some FIers get way too much of a frugalboner and turn into those people that think eating more than rice & beans, living in a fancier apartment, or driving a nicer car are all unequivocally 'bad with money'. Let's be honest, the big divide is how much you make. For a family, saving 50% on $250k a year means I still get to have a nice place and a new car every few years, saving 50% on $32k a year means drying used paper towels and stocking up on condiments at Burger King. If you're a mustachian, it probably just hurts to admit that someone making that much money can basically just cut out their Pappy Van Winkle budget and they'll be saving more than you are making rice and beans everyday.
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Feb 26, 2015 19:48
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Radbot posted:Let's be honest, the big divide is how much you make. For a family, saving 50% on $250k a year means I still get to have a nice place and a new car every few years, saving 50% on $32k a year means drying used paper towels and stocking up on condiments at Burger King. For every family making $250k and living a lavish lifestyle while saving 50%, there's hundreds making $125k, living that same lifestyle, and saving nothing outside of maybe mortgage principal, which may also get tapped down the road. Those making $125k and not saving a dime are the ones that give me strength as a frugal person. If I add a spouse making $50k~ some day, I'll be in the latter camp, but I won't be spending it all, that's for sure. If I'm not saving 50%, something is wrong.
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Feb 26, 2015 20:12
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Some people are just inherent Poors. Dated a girl who made $65,000 at 27. She never contributed a dime to a 401k or IRA because she "needed it all to survive" and "didn't want to eat rice and beans". I bet she just had crazy student loans. Anyone with a $160,000 student loan is just hosed I guess.
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Feb 26, 2015 20:18
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Radbot posted:If you're a mustachian, it probably just hurts to admit that someone making that much money can basically just cut out their Pappy Van Winkle budget and they'll be saving more than you are making rice and beans everyday. And that's my biggest beef with him. His advice is solid, for those people with incomes over sustenance levels but are wasting on frivolous consumer goods, but the way he writes, he implies that anyone can do it. Though I have found when trying to talk similarly, *while* admitting there are actual people living in poverty or budgeting every penny, most people are so used to hearing actual poor-hating that they hear something else entirely. For example here in Iceland, we have many people who's debt is actually taking every spare kronur. But when we go and get a bank loan or refinance, their equations for what we spend are 3x what we actually spend, because they are based on the average people's spending habits (at our same income level). So *some* people are actually doing no budgeting, upgrading their phones way too often, buying too much car, and eating out nearly daily. If I try to speak to that effect, people will automatically bring up the first group as if that's everyone.
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Feb 26, 2015 21:21
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poopinmymouth posted:For example here in Iceland, we have many people who's debt is actually taking every spare kronur. But when we go and get a bank loan or refinance, their equations for what we spend are 3x what we actually spend, because they are based on the average people's spending habits (at our same income level). So *some* people are actually doing no budgeting, upgrading their phones way too often, buying too much car, and eating out nearly daily. If I try to speak to that effect, people will automatically bring up the first group as if that's everyone. Banks use various "tools" like 3-4.5 times gross income as the maximum lending limit and so on. This caps what they will lend. The fact that you might have large book write offs that decrease gross income but in reality decreases the amount of tax paid. A lot of lenders inside the bank understand this but are still bound by the lending rules. My mortgage broker will probably be somewhat surprised when he sees the amount of money I've put into investments since buying my house. Of course there will probably be a decrease in gross income due to all the write offs I get from my house. Probably the best thing about not overspending is you can invest and collect more income. Although Iceland has specific problems getting money offshore from what I understand.
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Feb 26, 2015 21:52
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Some people are just inherent Poors. Dated a girl who made $65,000 at 27. She never contributed a dime to a 401k or IRA because she "needed it all to survive" and "didn't want to eat rice and beans". My eyes bugged out a little at this, because I make exactly this and max both And I still feel like I'm not saving enough
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Feb 26, 2015 22:04
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Radbot posted:Let's be honest, the big divide is how much you make. quote:he implies that anyone can do it. Cicero fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 22:14
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Cicero posted:It can easily be either. There are plenty of financial idiots making 200k+ as lawyers or doctors and just blowing it all on a huge house, luxury cars, fancy vacations, elite private schools, etc. and then if they ever lose their bigbucks job they are incredibly screwed. It's obviously much harder to become FI on a low income though, no one disputes that. My boss has pulled in $350,000 a couple years as a consultant, and of course less than that other years, and he definitely doesn't have much. Constant expensive lunches, luxury vehicles (Mercedes M SUV), RVs, a house maid, an investment house that has been losing money every month for 2 years, etc. I imagine it goes quick.
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Feb 26, 2015 22:57
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Knyteguy posted:My boss has pulled in $350,000 a couple years as a consultant, and of course less than that other years, and he definitely doesn't have much. Constant expensive lunches, luxury vehicles (Mercedes M SUV), RVs, a house maid, an investment house that has been losing money every month for 2 years, etc. I imagine it goes quick. Buy him an account and tell him to post in the If you had $350k in cash thread
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Feb 27, 2015 00:36
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pig slut lisa posted:Buy him an account and tell him to post in the If you had $350k in cash thread $30,000 in cash for an SUV OTD House purchased late 2007 Second house purchased 2010 with PMI His wife used to make $250,000 a year in sales or something too, so they were genuinely some high earners. There's some bad luck with that investment house obviously. He's underwater so they can't sell. They're pretty much flat broke now which is the biggest problem, despite him having a six figure day job and my salary being covered. I don't think they're unusual or anything; I guess it's just the matter of adjusting your lifestyle to your income instead of saving a lot. Here's a little thing I made some time back for some quick FI withdrawal calculations: http://www.frugaltoolkit.com/tools/early-retirement-withdrawal-calculator/ e: was kind of sounding like a dick without trying to. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 01:25
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Knyteguy posted:They're pretty much flat broke now which is the biggest problem, despite him having a six figure day job and my salary being covered.
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Feb 27, 2015 01:45
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