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hookerbot 5000
Dec 21, 2009
Connor used to only want me, now he tells me that he loves me a little bit but not as much as daddy :(

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His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

Seven for a Secret posted:

Yep, my 18-month-old daughter did this every time she hurt herself, had to get a shot, etc. from when she was 6 months old or so. She's finally starting to do it less. It really is scary-looking. She's done it in front of her doctor several times, and she doesn't think it's anything to worry about-- just a habit that some kids get into when they're hurt and surprised. A nurse suggested blowing in the baby's face to shock her out of it, but that doesn't seem to work much for us.

Good to hear this and other stories. Can relax a bit now.

And the boys are finally starting to get used to daycare, today when I picked them up Daniel even ran away and gave one of the staff a hug before we left. Little charmer.

Cimber
Feb 3, 2014
So apparently my five year old son is very energetic in school, blurts out answers to questions, fidgets a bit and has some impulse control problems. The teacher recommended we have him screened for ADHD.

Now i'm not a huge fan of medicting my son. Is it possible he's ADHD or is he just a bright, bored 5 year old boy.

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

Cimber posted:

So apparently my five year old son is very energetic in school, blurts out answers to questions, fidgets a bit and has some impulse control problems. The teacher recommended we have him screened for ADHD.

Now i'm not a huge fan of medicting my son. Is it possible he's ADHD or is he just a bright, bored 5 year old boy.

From that little bit of information, no one's going to be able to tell.

Now, as for getting evaluated? What's the harm? If he doesn't have ADHD, then whatever. If he does, medication might be the way to go. Knowing one way or the other is better than wondering.

skullamity
Nov 9, 2004

Cimber posted:

So apparently my five year old son is very energetic in school, blurts out answers to questions, fidgets a bit and has some impulse control problems. The teacher recommended we have him screened for ADHD.

Now i'm not a huge fan of medicting my son. Is it possible he's ADHD or is he just a bright, bored 5 year old boy.

Well, the good news is that generally no (sane) doctor is going to medicate a 5 year old. Generally they wait (now-a-days, they didn't when my husband was a kid) until your kid is a bit older because standard ADHD medication can cause some nasty side effects like growth delay and insomnia. Generally they want kids on at least 6 months behavioral therapy before they try even low doses of medication, and that's if nothing is working. If a doctor immediately wants to try out medication for your 6 year old, I'd try and find another doctor. Suggesting to adults who are being diagnosed to try medication even before a positive diagnosis is common, but that's because an adult can articulate about the potentially terrible side effects and whether or not it's actually working in a way that a really young kid can't.

Your post is basically my future--even at 2.5 my daughter is showing a lot of signs, and we kind of expected it since ADHD is suspected to be hereditary and bother her father and I each have a formal diagnosis and are on medication for it.

That said, some of it could be normal zany kid antics, or it could even be acting out due to frustration because of a completely different issue with sight, hearing or language (one of my younger sisters was a constant blur of motion and insanity until we finally figured out that her eyesight was terrible enough that she needed surgery on both of them and two years of hardcore bifocals before she turned 7 to correct it, and as soon as she could see properly, all the behavioral issues stopped). Your best bet is to get him tested, but to also rule out any other issues like that first, since getting assessed for ADHD at such a young age mostly requires anecdotal evidence that it might be an issue from parents and teachers because no little kid is going to want to sit still and have lengthy conversations with a psychologist while doing multiple written tests like an adult would.

If you're super opposed to medication down the road, or are looking for a temporary solution to hold off on meds for as long as possible, ADHD symptoms can be lessened with specific diets and supplements and less narcotic substances like fish oil, vitamins and caffeine (it sounds counterproductive, but a lot of people with ADHD who don't want, can't take or can't afford medication will self medicate with caffeine).

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

Pretty much every study done has found that treatment of ADHD with supplements or diets are ineffective or at best not nearly as effective as traditional medication unless the symptoms are tied to an actual diagnosis of a deficiency, outside of maybe mild stimulants like caffeine (or in the case of adults, nicotine), which is what a large number of ADHD meds are anyway.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax
There's no harm in screening, other than the cost.

skullamity
Nov 9, 2004

AngryRobotsInc posted:

Pretty much every study done has found that treatment of ADHD with supplements or diets are ineffective or at best not nearly as effective as traditional medication unless the symptoms are tied to an actual diagnosis of a deficiency, outside of maybe mild stimulants like caffeine (or in the case of adults, nicotine), which is what a large number of ADHD meds are anyway.

I suggested it because I've seen plenty of people with ADHD who stand by it and do nothing but talk about how well it's working for them. Everyone's ADHD is different, and everyone reacts to different treatments in different ways. I have never personally tried this route since I tried medication first and it works pretty fantastically, but I understand wanting alternatives to giving a little kid medication that can make them completely lose their appetite, develop insomnia or major anxiety or any other number of things, so I figured it was worth mentioning.

greatn posted:

There's no harm in screening, other than the cost.

And that cost might be pretty drat high. I was lucky that my doctor's office had a program that covered up to $500/month for select patients who were recommended for their list and that insurance covered the rest, but one of my husband's siblings, who had been assessed as a child, stopped taking medication as a teen and needed a re-assessment to get back on it as an adult had to pay $1000 out of pocket. And that's in the Canadian health care system--probably more expensive before insurance if you're American like everything seems to be down there.

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Cimber posted:

So apparently my five year old son is very energetic in school, blurts out answers to questions, fidgets a bit and has some impulse control problems. The teacher recommended we have him screened for ADHD.

Now i'm not a huge fan of medicting my son. Is it possible he's ADHD or is he just a bright, bored 5 year old boy.

Uh...That seems pretty normal for five. Hell, even older.

Cimber
Feb 3, 2014

ActusRhesus posted:

Uh...That seems pretty normal for five. Hell, even older.



Yeah, thats what i think too. How much of this is just being 5, and how much of this is an actual problem?

Also, how much of this is his teacher being moved around many grades in her career, from 8th grade to 5th grade to 3rd grade to her 2nd year of teaching K. I'm not a huge fan of her either.

Slo-Tek
Jun 8, 2001

WINDOWS 98 BEAT HIS FRIEND WITH A SHOVEL

ActusRhesus posted:

Uh...That seems pretty normal for five. Hell, even older.

When the teachers call your kid out, it is a useful wakeup call. My kid was high spirited and enthusiastic and by our family standards a normal 5 year old. But we are used to that sort of thing, and have lots and lots of options, and no curriculum to get through. When he started going to school, he started getting in trouble. Now, we can argue till we are blue in the face about what a good boy he is, and investigate montessori alternatives, and whatever else. But the fact remains, compared to his peers, he was spending a disproportionate amount of time in the principals office.

Being in trouble almost every day, for weeks, then months is hard on a little kid. It is _bad_ for them. It is bad for their families as well, because schools are excellent at collective punishment, and making sure that if your little dickens is in trouble, you are in trouble too.

If all the trouble you both are in is a "maybe go get evaluated" then maybe go get evaluated. Read an ADHD book or three, and discuss theory and practice with the little dickens, get more AM exercise, and eat better, good ideas anyway. If that does the trick, job done.

However, if you are still in trouble, and your smart-as-gently caress kid starts worrying that nobody likes him and isn't completing the work assigned, then making them wait till an arbitrary age cutoff before investigating drugs is pointless and damaging. First week my kid was on ADHD meds was the first week in his entire academic career that he came home with an all-green behavior chart. Then that turned into the first month. And that made him a lot happier to go to school, and his classmates and teacher lot happier to see him.

If drugs help, then there aren't a lot of very good arguments against them. In terms of getting useful results quickly, they are hard to beat, and making a kid stay in trouble every day until they are 7 years or 70 pounds is some arbitrary and cruel bullshit.

Suppressed appetite and insomnia is a hell of a lot better than being the class fuckup. And, it isn't like the meds last very long, so by the time he gets off the bus, he is chemically unaltered and ready to high-spirit and enthuse the poo poo out of everything where he isn't disrupting 30 other kids math class.

Slo-Tek fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Feb 22, 2015

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Slo-Tek posted:

When the teachers call your kid out, it is a useful wakeup call. My kid was high spirited and enthusiastic and by our family standards a normal 5 year old. But we are used to that sort of thing, and have lots and lots of options, and no curriculum to get through. When he started going to school, he started getting in trouble. Now, we can argue till we are blue in the face about what a good boy he is, and investigate montessori alternatives, and whatever else. But the fact remains, compared to his peers, he was spending a disproportionate amount of time in the principals office.

Being in trouble almost every day, for weeks, then months is hard on a little kid. It is _bad_ for them. It is bad for their families as well, because schools are excellent at collective punishment, and making sure that if your little dickens is in trouble, you are in trouble too.

If all the trouble you both are in is a "maybe go get evaluated" then maybe go get evaluated. Read an ADHD book or three, and discuss theory and practice with the little dickens, get more AM exercise, and eat better, good ideas anyway. If that does the trick, job done.

However, if you are still in trouble, and your smart-as-gently caress kid starts worrying that nobody likes him and isn't completing the work assigned, then making them wait till an arbitrary age cutoff before investigating drugs is pointless and damaging. First week my kid was on ADHD meds was the first week in his entire academic career that he came home with an all-green behavior chart. Then that turned into the first month. And that made him a lot happier to go to school, and his classmates and teacher lot happier to see him.

If drugs help, then there aren't a lot of very good arguments against them. In terms of getting useful results quickly, they are hard to beat, and making a kid stay in trouble every day until they are 7 years or 70 pounds is some arbitrary and cruel bullshit.

Suppressed appetite and insomnia is a hell of a lot better than being the class fuckup. And, it isn't like the meds last very long, so by the time he gets off the bus, he is chemically unaltered and ready to high-spirit and enthuse the poo poo out of everything where he isn't disrupting 30 other kids math class.

Maybe primary school teachers should stop treating little boys like defective girls. At five there is a marked difference between boy and girl maturity and behavior. Why should they rush to label their kid with a behavioral disorder?

Slo-Tek
Jun 8, 2001

WINDOWS 98 BEAT HIS FRIEND WITH A SHOVEL

ActusRhesus posted:

Maybe primary school teachers should stop treating little boys like defective girls. At five there is a marked difference between boy and girl maturity and behavior. Why should they rush to label their kid with a behavioral disorder?

In my experience, it is a hell of a lot better for my kid to not be in trouble all the time than it is for me to be the most righteous in the facebook mommy group. You seem to be under the impression that being 'labeled' as taking medication is worse than being 'labeled' with a poor grade, and damaged social prospects, and not being invited to the gifted programs. Kids and adults both know and reinforce who the fuckups are, and it is very much worth doing what it takes to get out from under enough that there is some other kid in your class that can snatch the fuckup title.

If you aren't getting clobbered in conduct, if there is some other kid in your class who is constantly down the principals office, then you probably don't have to worry too much about it. My advice to people with kids who find themselves in trouble is to do what it takes to get them out. Not leave them in trouble every day, establishing a reputation and a self-image as a fuckup, in the second grade, to reinforce their own self-image as better-than as an adult.

Slo-Tek fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Feb 22, 2015

of bees
Dec 28, 2009

ActusRhesus posted:

Maybe primary school teachers should stop treating little boys like defective girls. At five there is a marked difference between boy and girl maturity and behavior. Why should they rush to label their kid with a behavioral disorder?

Speaking from the teacher side of things (well, I'm a substitute teacher, but I've still seen the effects), being diagnosed and getting the help they need is way better than remaining undiagnosed because you don't want to 'label' your kid. Hell, at five, kids don't give two shits about who has to take pills and who doesn't. What they care about is losing out on fun things because one of the kids in their class kept acting up and now they all have to stay in for recess, or they don't get free time because they spent all of the class time waiting while the teacher tried to get one kid to sit still for long enough that they could teach.

Also, there are a lot of services available for diagnosed kids that do not necessarily involve medicating them. Just last week I was in a 2nd grade class for several days in a row, and for certain subjects (math and vocabulary) two kids were pulled out of the classroom to work with a class aide. They did the same work, but in a quiet room with one person focusing on just the two of them. Sometimes all it takes is that one-on-one (or one-on-two, as in this case) effort to keep a kid focused on tougher subjects. Other things I have seen are scheduled breaks for kids (primarily for kids with autism, but I've seen a couple ADHD kids who get them too) in special rooms, where they get five minutes or so to destress or whatever they need before going back into class again. Just a few minutes to be able to get out and walk around can do wonders sometimes.

The thing is, in order to get a lot of these services, a kid has to be diagnosed by a doctor. Because (in America at least) the school district has to pay for those services, and with funding tight as it is they don't want to spend the money on extra people/resources when they don't absolutely have to, and technically they only have to accommodate a kid's needs when a doctor has diagnosed them with ADHD, or autism, or anything else.

So yes, being diagnosed doesn't necessarily mean being medicated, and all the help a child receives because of their diagnosis far outweighs any perceived 'label' they might get as a result.

Sockmuppet
Aug 15, 2009

ActusRhesus posted:

Maybe primary school teachers should stop treating little boys like defective girls.

If all the other little boys in the class were also being asked to go for an evaluation, you might have a point, but I guess they're not, so it's obvious that there is some issue here. Whether that issue is that the kid is so smart that class bores him, has dyslexia, poor eyesight, is just slightly immature for his age, has actual ADHD or is simply extra high spirited and just needs to learn techniques for how to calm himself down a little in group settings, it still needs to be figured out and adressed if it's disrupting the learning environment for both him and all the other kids.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
I'd be wary of seeing ADHD everywhere, it seems like a real popular diagnosis, based on personal experiences it really is a label that weighs a person down and it should not be made lightly. My view is americans are too quick to use it and too quick to resort to medication as well. Not saying they don't have their place mind you and ADHD does exist and requires medication when the situation calls for it. But like I said, americans seem really into prescribing medication at the drop of a hat compared to here. Tread carefully is my recommendation. It's hard to say what the right choice is, only with hindsight can you be sure.

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

His Divine Shadow posted:

I'd be wary of seeing ADHD everywhere, it seems like a real popular diagnosis, based on personal experiences it really is a label that weighs a person down and it should not be made lightly. My view is americans are too quick to use it and too quick to resort to medication as well. Not saying they don't have their place mind you and ADHD does exist and requires medication when the situation calls for it. But like I said, americans seem really into prescribing medication at the drop of a hat compared to here. Tread carefully is my recommendation. It's hard to say what the right choice is, only with hindsight can you be sure.

This. Drugging a five year old for blurting answers and fidgeting seems stupid. This has gently caress all nothing with wanting to be the most righteous of internet mommies (And let me just say how deliciously ironic I find that accusation in this context) and everything to do with believing that affixing a behavioral disorder label to a child for acting like a child is asinine.

ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Feb 22, 2015

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax
Yeah but you're not an expert or a psychiatrist, they're extremely more qualified to say if a kid has any behavioral disorder and what if any treatment is.

Drugs are not a "last resort" for mental illness any more than amoxicillin is a "last resort" for an ear infection. You wouldn't say "this kid hears fine and talks fine and I can't see any junk in his ear anyway" if a doctor told you the kid has an ear infection. Psychiatric meds are just "a resort", one option of many, if your doctor even thinks there is a problem in the first place.

jassi007
Aug 9, 2006

mmmmm.. burger...

Sockmuppet posted:

So, my 20 month old only wants mum, i.e. me, when she's distressed, tired, sick, mad, or otherwise upset in any way, shape or form. She's been sick a lot these last couple of weeks, and since I'm a student and my husband works full time and in addition has been travelling for work a lot lately, she's had a lot of experience with me being the one to stay at home with her when she's sick, comfort her and tuck her in at night. Now he's back and she's better, but she still only wants mum. Thus I turn to you, wise people with older children - do we just indulge her as far as it's possible, and wait for this particular mummy-phase to pass on it's own, or do we push dad, even when she's wailing for mum? It's particularly bad at bedtime, and we had a little argument earlier because my husband insisted on putting her to bed because he thinks that if she keeps getting mum every time she wants, she'll grow used to it and keep demanding just mum, but I figure it's just a phase, and I'd much rather just do the putting to bed with a minimum of frustration all around.

Yeah that is just one of those things you have grit your teeth and bear it. It will pass.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax
I just realized my one year 20 month Old keeps waking up in the middle the night because he's rolling out of his crib. I caught him in the act last night. We have a guard rail that he just rips it off immediately before he goes to bed every night. And here we are buying him a twin bed. Is not rolling out of his bed something that he'll learn sooner rather than later?

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

greatn posted:

Yeah but you're not an expert or a psychiatrist, they're extremely more qualified to say if a kid has any behavioral disorder and what if any treatment is.

Drugs are not a "last resort" for mental illness any more than amoxicillin is a "last resort" for an ear infection. You wouldn't say "this kid hears fine and talks fine and I can't see any junk in his ear anyway" if a doctor told you the kid has an ear infection. Psychiatric meds are just "a resort", one option of many, if your doctor even thinks there is a problem in the first place.

I was not aware that kindergarten teachers were "experts" qualified to make DSM diagnoses.

Sockmuppet
Aug 15, 2009

ActusRhesus posted:

I was not aware that kindergarten teachers were "experts" qualified to make DSM diagnoses.

They're not, which is why the teacher recommended to have the kid screened by actual experts, as opposed to hiding Ritalin in his lunch at their own discretion. I don't know who you're arguing with, but they're not posting in this thread right now.

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Sockmuppet posted:

They're not, which is why the teacher recommended to have the kid screened by actual experts, as opposed to hiding Ritalin in his lunch at their own discretion. I don't know who you're arguing with, but they're not posting in this thread right now.

"Hi Doc...my kid's teacher says he has ADHD because he fidgets in class."
"Your child is 5. That will be $100 because like most mental health care providers I do not take 90% of insurance plans."

ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Feb 22, 2015

Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

ActusRhesus posted:

"Hi Doc...my kid's teacher says he has ADHD because he fidgets in class."
"Your child is 5. That will be $100 because like most mental health care providers I do not take 90% of insurance plans."

Are you loving kidding right now? You clearly don't know what the gently caress you're talking about if you think an outside MD is the person that will make an ADHD evaluation. The school district employs many people whose only professional training is making these diagnoses.

JustAurora
Apr 17, 2007

Nature vs. Nurture, man!
Yes. Exactly what papercut said. If a school teacher recommends that your child be evaluated for ADHD, then it is the school's responsibility to test them for it, not yours. You call the school counselor and speak to them about it, and then they can get the ball rolling. The only reason she mentioned it to you is that you're the one who has to consent to the testing. Your school district have a few (or at least one) school psychologists whose sole job is to test children for various learning disabilities and interpret the results. Just because a teacher says he might have ADHD does not mean he does. Just because you plug your ears going "nah nah nah" however, doesn't mean he does not have it.

jassi007
Aug 9, 2006

mmmmm.. burger...

greatn posted:

I just realized my one year 20 month Old keeps waking up in the middle the night because he's rolling out of his crib. I caught him in the act last night. We have a guard rail that he just rips it off immediately before he goes to bed every night. And here we are buying him a twin bed. Is not rolling out of his bed something that he'll learn sooner rather than later?

I'm imaging toddler hulk smashing the guard rail on his bed every night.

Cimber
Feb 3, 2014

ActusRhesus posted:

This. Drugging a five year old for blurting answers and fidgeting seems stupid. This has gently caress all nothing with wanting to be the most righteous of internet mommies (And let me just say how deliciously ironic I find that accusation in this context) and everything to do with believing that affixing a behavioral disorder label to a child for acting like a child is asinine.

And here is the thing. My kids class room is being taught like a 5th grade class rather than a kindergarten. When I was in K and 1st grade we got 3 recesses a day. Two of them 15 minutes in length in the morning and afternoon, and a 30 minute after lunch. We had time to play and get all that energy out.

His day however is like this:
9:15 start school
9:20 - 10:20 reading instruction and lab
10:20 - 11:20 Math lab
11:20 - 11:40 Lunch
11:40 - 12:00 Recess
12:00 - 12:50 'special' classes (gym X2 a week, art or social studies once a week)
12:50 - 1:50 Reading lab part 2
1:50 - 3:10 Math Lab part 2
3:10 - 3:20 'free' time
3:20 - departure

At night he has usually an hour of homework every night.

For a 5 year old this is a FUCKload of work. Why all this focus on academics? Because of the state testing and administrator evaluations.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax

jassi007 posted:

I'm imaging toddler hulk smashing the guard rail on his bed every night.

Preeety much

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Papercut posted:

Are you loving kidding right now? You clearly don't know what the gently caress you're talking about if you think an outside MD is the person that will make an ADHD evaluation. The school district employs many people whose only professional training is making these diagnoses.

Given the quality of school district employees writ large, especially where the term "social worker" appears, there is no way in gently caress I would let one anywhere near my kid. Outside neutral assessment from someone with either MD or PhD after their name who hasn't been influenced by teacher's input because, frankly, I'm not ruling out the possibility that the teacher in this case isn't just an rear end in a top hat who doesn't like the kid for whatever reason.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

JustAurora posted:

Yes. Exactly what papercut said. If a school teacher recommends that your child be evaluated for ADHD, then it is the school's responsibility to test them for it, not yours. You call the school counselor and speak to them about it, and then they can get the ball rolling. The only reason she mentioned it to you is that you're the one who has to consent to the testing. Your school district have a few (or at least one) school psychologists whose sole job is to test children for various learning disabilities and interpret the results. Just because a teacher says he might have ADHD does not mean he does. Just because you plug your ears going "nah nah nah" however, doesn't mean he does not have it.

Probably depends on the city/county/state and how well their social services are funded. Like my oldest was having trouble in daycare, so the county did an evaluation of him, found that he was having trouble, and now he's got a physical therapist (provided by the county) who visits his daycare a few times a month to help him with his motor skills and stuff. All paid for by your (and my) tax dollars. But in a rural area, or less well funded area, you might be looking at significant out of pocket expenses for that sort of thing.

Sockmuppet
Aug 15, 2009

Cimber posted:

For a 5 year old this is a FUCKload of work. Why all this focus on academics? Because of the state testing and administrator evaluations.

This is completely true and utterly ridiculous.

But if your son is having more trouble coping than the other kids in his class, wouldn't you want to know why, and try to help him? It might be nothing, it might be something, and that something might be one of any number of things, some small, some big. And if it does turn out to be something, the sooner you can start helping him, the better.

(And I really doubt that fidgeting and blurting out answers will lead to instant drugs. If they evaluate him and find cause for concern, it'll be the start of a process, not an immediate diagnosis of ADHD and a prescription for horse tranquilizers.)

jassi007
Aug 9, 2006

mmmmm.. burger...

ActusRhesus posted:

Given the quality of school district employees writ large, especially where the term "social worker" appears, there is no way in gently caress I would let one anywhere near my kid. Outside neutral assessment from someone with either MD or PhD after their name who hasn't been influenced by teacher's input because, frankly, I'm not ruling out the possibility that the teacher in this case isn't just an rear end in a top hat who doesn't like the kid for whatever reason.

I have no skin in this argument but is there a reason you can't or won't let the school eval him then have your own independant M.D. evaluate him? As a parent, I worry about someone labeling one of my boys as ADHD just because its more convenient than discipline. I would not rely on one evaluation from either side, but I wouldn't outright refuse evaluation. It isn't going to make anyones life easier to tell the teacher their wrong without anything to back that up, after all, you aren't an M.D. either.

Another option is to hold them back from kindergarten a year. My sister-in-law did that, the pre-school recommended their daughter go another year, she wasn't really socially developed enough to do kindergarten. It is probably better to do it at that age than have it happen later after they've made friends in classes but struggled for a while.

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Cimber posted:



For a 5 year old this is a FUCKload of work. Why all this focus on academics? Because of the state testing and administrator evaluations.

Yup. Your kid's lack of focus at the age of FIVE = not paying attention = won't be able to focus on standardized test = bad eval for teacher.

Nothing your kid learns in kindergarten academia is so crucial he will be doomed to failure if he has to catch up later. Colleges don't care what you got on the Iowa test and (gasp) some kids are better off without traditional college anyway. Also when is your kids birthday? If he was younger in the class that can also account for some behavior differences as 6 months makes a big difference with kids that young. Is the kid kind? Is the kid engaged and interested in learning? Those are more important questions than "does he fidget?"

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

jassi007 posted:

I have no skin in this argument but is there a reason you can't or won't let the school eval him then have your own independant M.D. evaluate him? As a parent, I worry about someone labeling one of my boys as ADHD just because its more convenient than discipline. I would not rely on one evaluation from either side, but I wouldn't outright refuse evaluation. It isn't going to make anyones life easier to tell the teacher their wrong without anything to back that up, after all, you aren't an M.D. either.

Another option is to hold them back from kindergarten a year. My sister-in-law did that, the pre-school recommended their daughter go another year, she wasn't really socially developed enough to do kindergarten. It is probably better to do it at that age than have it happen later after they've made friends in classes but struggled for a while.

In my case it's an extremely negative experience with a teacher who was, frankly, a bully and attempted to throw a personality disorder label on me to justify her abusive behavior. We did go through the whole eval and diagnosis wringer and the clinical diagnosis was "the teacher is a Bitch. Ask to switch classes." Sure enough, following year, no issues. I am, as a result of that experience extremely hesitant to take a teacher's word for something like this absent compelling indicators. Especially where, as the OP here has stated, there are other issues with the teacher. And I'm certainly not going to rely on school resources where there will be a natural inclination to side with the teacher's version of events.

Cimber
Feb 3, 2014

ActusRhesus posted:

In my case it's an extremely negative experience with a teacher who was, frankly, a bully and attempted to throw a personality disorder label on me to justify her abusive behavior. We did go through the whole eval and diagnosis wringer and the clinical diagnosis was "the teacher is a Bitch. Ask to switch classes." Sure enough, following year, no issues. I am, as a result of that experience extremely hesitant to take a teacher's word for something like this absent compelling indicators. Especially where, as the OP here has stated, there are other issues with the teacher. And I'm certainly not going to rely on school resources where there will be a natural inclination to side with the teacher's version of events.

I am not trying to play the 'blame the teacher' game. However, I do find it odd that she's bounced around the grade levels so much, may not have formal training in kindergarten level education (like i said before, she was a 5th grade teacher for a couple of years), and apparently there are a number of other kids in her class who are also on behavior modification plans. Other parents have told me they are getting similar notes and comments.

Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

ActusRhesus posted:

Given the quality of school district employees writ large, especially where the term "social worker" appears, there is no way in gently caress I would let one anywhere near my kid. Outside neutral assessment from someone with either MD or PhD after their name who hasn't been influenced by teacher's input because, frankly, I'm not ruling out the possibility that the teacher in this case isn't just an rear end in a top hat who doesn't like the kid for whatever reason.

In my school district all new school psychologists are required to have PhDs, you ignorant twit. Although some of the older ones "only" have a Masters that required tons of hours of real life training as well as a year of supervised internship. It is hilarious how obvious it is that you haven't got a clue and are just spewing nonsense.

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Cimber posted:

I am not trying to play the 'blame the teacher' game. However, I do find it odd that she's bounced around the grade levels so much, may not have formal training in kindergarten level education (like i said before, she was a 5th grade teacher for a couple of years), and apparently there are a number of other kids in her class who are also on behavior modification plans. Other parents have told me they are getting similar notes and comments.

There's a difference between "blaming the teacher" and taking an objective and critical view when it comes to your child. I read your posts (each with more backstory trickling out) and I really don't see someone making excuses for his kid. I see someone recognising that things here don't quite add up. Of course we don't want to have blinders on when it comes to our kids, but I really don't get that impression from what you've written.

OT trying to give my almost 2 year old a nap. I asked her to get into bed and she yelled NO! And threw a plushie. Early warning sign of oppositional defiance disorder y/y?

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Papercut posted:

In my school district all new school psychologists are required to have PhDs, you ignorant twit. Although some of the older ones "only" have a Masters that required tons of hours of real life training as well as a year of supervised internship. It is hilarious how obvious it is that you haven't got a clue and are just spewing nonsense.

What a mature and thought provoking response.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

ActusRhesus posted:

There's a difference between "blaming the teacher" and taking an objective and critical view when it comes to your child. I read your posts (each with more backstory trickling out) and I really don't see someone making excuses for his kid. I see someone recognising that things here don't quite add up. Of course we don't want to have blinders on when it comes to our kids, but I really don't get that impression from what you've written.

OT trying to give my almost 2 year old a nap. I asked her to get into bed and she yelled NO! And threw a plushie. Early warning sign of oppositional defiance disorder y/y?

Send her off to military christian reform daycare. That will put her on the straight and narrow path.

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ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

sullat posted:

Send her off to military christian reform daycare. That will put her on the straight and narrow path.

Was considering lobotomy. That's what they did to Jack Nicholson when he couldn't follow nurse Ratched's rules but maybe this is a better starting off point. But clearly something must be done.

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