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systran posted:I'm sure there is a Chinese novel somewhere about knights in a not-quite-England setting, and they probably get all kinds of poo poo 'wrong', but if the plot is good and the world feels real, does it matter at all? If anything, seeing another culture not familiar with Christian theology inadvertently mixing it with their own cultural standards is interesting to read. Not a novel, but I'm playing through Valkryia Chronicles (steam sale woo!), and it's the NOT-European WW2 fronts through a bizarre anime lense. Its utterly surreal and quite refreshing. But yeah, not a book. Early in, and I get the feeling the NOT-Jews (ohhhh...its there!) aspect might become somewhat...what's the tumblr word? Problematic. EDIT: Sorry for not reading books. Neil Gaiman's new short story collection is p.good so far! I've always thought Gaiman was a better short story author than full novel writer. I did like Neverwhere and American Gods, but his short story collections always stuck with me moreso.
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Feb 20, 2015 02:10
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Gaiman is at his best when he does short stories I think, I noticed the other day that American Gods is 624 pages and upon reflection there's a lot of that book that could have taken the form of a volume of short stories on the theme. American Gods was lightning in a bottle for Gaiman in a way that none of his other novel-length work has really lived up to. Most of his readers are also familiar with The Sandman, which was more of his "short stories moving through a central concept" style, and I'm happy to see him returning to it. That said, Kameron Hurley does not like Gaiman's use of the term trigger warning and although my brain is telling me she's right, I just can't bring myself to care about misuse of the term "trigger warning." Edit: I also haven't actually read trigger warning so if we can get more opinions on it that'd be great. We probably have a thread about Gaiman but I mostly distrust those single-author fan club threads v:)v
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Feb 20, 2015 04:20
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I don't know who Kameron Hurley is but you should have put trigger warnings on that piece because now I want to fight her. EDIT: goddamnit I've already paid for Mirror Empire, now I am mad.
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Feb 20, 2015 05:13
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Prop Wash posted:That said, Kameron Hurley does not like Gaiman's use of the term trigger warning and although my brain is telling me she's right, I just can't bring myself to care about misuse of the term "trigger warning." Oh! I like this! For the record: No problem with the title of the short story collection. Or the intro, even. I feel like article and Gaimen are getting it right. I agree with both. "Trigger Warning" is a coop-ed term. Rape? War and serious trauma? Certainly a thing. 100%, no disagreement. SERIOUS trauma can warrant a warning.. Tumblr (forgive me, it's not just tumblr but a subset of the Internet) has decided that ANYTHING disagreeable (spiders, poor font choice, bad html, for example) is worthy of a "trigger warning". That's what Neil is touching on in his intro. That dumb poo poo is being "tagged". He fears a world where people avoid stories and literature that might "trigger" them. A Harrison Bergerac world. He argues that the average person needs trauma (in the form of a scary story, perhaps?) and that fiction is a "safe space". Is that not what fiction is? A place where one, through the hands of a skilled writer, experience something one might not experience? Even if extremely unpleasant? It's safe...I mean. You can stop reading. Should you be warned? Is the onus on the writer to warn you of anything you might find traumatic? The article says Neil is disrespecting the term, but I think it misses the point: the "internet" disrespects the term. Is Neil wrong for pointing this out, in his trivializing of the term? I don't think so. Someone has to point this out. The article and Neil are ships passing in the night. They're both right. Snuffman fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 05:25
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Snuffman posted:The article and Neil are ships passing in the night. They're both right.
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Feb 20, 2015 05:34
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thehomemaster posted:EDIT: goddamnit I've already paid for Mirror Empire, now I am mad. Don't be. Mirror Empire is good and more imaginative than the usual !Europe.
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Feb 20, 2015 06:49
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Discussions of trigger warnings and cultural appropriation on the same page; we are sailing close to the sun of drawing one of those moronic ideologues who spend tens of thousands of words of writing on how to be a better and more accepting progressive than others into our midst.
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Feb 20, 2015 08:29
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Neurosis posted:Discussions of trigger warnings and cultural appropriation on the same page; we are sailing close to the sun of drawing one of those moronic ideologues who spend tens of thousands of words of writing on how to be a better and more accepting progressive than others into our midst. That concept seems more appropriate to the realm of cosmic horror.
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Feb 20, 2015 12:16
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You just have to look at things from Cthulhu's point of view.
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Feb 20, 2015 12:43
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Yea, I mean the dude JUST woke up, and now there are all these weird pink things all around shrieking and poo poo, and the dude hasn't even had his coffee.
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Feb 20, 2015 13:34
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Arcsquad12 posted:I understand that we do have a thread specifically for Black Library novels, but I'd like to ask my question here for a broader answer. So, I've been reading the Gaunt's Ghosts novels by Dan Abnett, and while I have enjoyed them, its only really been the last two books I've read, part of The Lost story arc, that have stuck out to me as legitimately great stories and not just good franchise fiction. I want to know if there's any comparable military sci-fi novels out there that can give me the same sort of vibe and world building as these lasyt two books. For the record, the books were Traitor General and His Last Command. I'm looking for some more contemporary MilSF, since my dad already has a stockpile of old classic SF and honor harrington novels. This isn't quite contemporary but by far my favorite milSF is The Prince by Pournelle and Stirling. It's a prequel (consisting of four previous works put together) to the more well known The Mote in God's Eye/The Gripping Hand books by Niven and Pournelle, but with a completely different focus on tactical/small-scale combat on different planets with an overarching story. The Wikipedia page actually has a good summary, if you just read the first section of the "Background" part you won't get spoiled. And if you enjoy that there's a whole series of "War World" novels that take place on a single planet; I haven't gotten through all of them yet but they're like Niven's Man/KzIn Wars books where they've got different authors coming in and writing novellas/short stories.
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Feb 20, 2015 14:02
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Prop Wash posted:That said, Kameron Hurley does not like Gaiman's use of the term trigger warning and although my brain is telling me she's right, I just can't bring myself to care about misuse of the term "trigger warning." Gaiman clearly did his Tumblr research. The definition no longer has anything to do with the PTSD suffered by victims of violence and trauma, that ship has sailed. Hurley is correct about why that's awful, but I don't think there's any chance of fixing it. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 15:32
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savinhill posted:Like you said earlier, there's also a ton of great humor in it, which was surprising for me considering the subject matter. Osbert is awesome, I predict that he's gonna become the most powerful person in the series, not by any real ambition, but just by struggling to survive, have plenty of wine & women, and being forced to learn poo poo by people like Despenser and the kings Probably. He's not a complete idiot and his short-sighted grasping appears to be serving him better than the planning of people who try to take any kind of long vision. Although I found the humour not involving him directly funnier. The lower order devils being such monomaniacal autistic morons, and that part where Edward KOs a knight when talking about his mother, for example. I'm wondering just how much it's all going to diverge from reality. Is our modern world the end game? That would limit the effects of possible cosmological changes. Although the fact that devils are running around conquering places in France suggests it might diverge quite a bit...
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Feb 20, 2015 17:08
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The new Nebula nominations are considerably less laughable than the Hugos:quote:Novel Personally, I'm cheering for the Goblin Emperor.
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Feb 20, 2015 23:05
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Megazver posted:The new Nebula nominations are considerably less laughable than the Hugos: I really enjoyed Annihilation, though I haven't read anything else on the list to compare it to.
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Feb 20, 2015 23:12
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I'm hoping someone can identify this book (series?) for me.... It was written in the 2000s and is about a young woman, possibly a servant in a castle (probably with a Secret Destiny) who has a scarred up face and doesn't speak. I believe the author's last name begins with a letter early in the alphabet, like A-D, and is a man. Does this ring any bells? Also, has anyone read Brian Ruckley's The Godless World trilogy? Would you recommend it?
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Feb 21, 2015 00:39
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Rabbit Hill posted:
I liked it a lot back when I read it, that was when it first came out though, with the sorta first wave of good post-GRRM fantasy like Abercrombie, Lynch, Bakker, Erikson, etc. so what felt good and original(I remember it had a good dark and brooding atmosphere + evil elves) about it could have been done a buncha other times by other authors since then. Ruckley does write some nice action/battle scenes if those are a priority for you.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:12
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Megazver posted:The new Nebula nominations are considerably less laughable than the Hugos: Three-Body Problem is my vote.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:13
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Rabbit Hill posted:I'm hoping someone can identify this book (series?) for me.... It was written in the 2000s and is about a young woman, possibly a servant in a castle (probably with a Secret Destiny) who has a scarred up face and doesn't speak. I believe the author's last name begins with a letter early in the alphabet, like A-D, and is a man. Does this ring any bells? Is this it? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/232102.The_Ill_Made_Mute
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Feb 21, 2015 01:45
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Thanks guys, I've got more than enough recommendations to last me for the foreseeable future. I appreciate it. To repay the favor a bit, if you're into dark GRRM/Joe Abercrombie style fantasy with an absolutely EXCELLENT narrator in the audiobook version, get Richard Morgan's 'A Land Fit For Heroes' trilogy. It's finished, which is pretty nice if you've started to develop irrational fears that your favorite series authors may die before finishing their magnum opi. It's got some pretty excellent characters, and a fantastic black and grey morality scale that is very much bad vs worse as opposed to good vs bad. There are dragons, magic swords, races analogous to elves and dwarves, wizards...and it's not remotely cliched in the way it treats them. You'll just have to take my word on that, I suppose. The main character is a gay badass swordsman from a noble family who finds himself washed up in a tiny village telling war stories for drinks. His buddy is a barbarian chief who is good at drinking, whoring, and killing but really bad at being a chief. Their mutual friend is an also gay immortal black-skinned elf-ish thing, 'treasured' adviser to a real oval office of a king and bitter about being left behind by her recently vanished race for being a human half-blood. Her only companion is an incredibly arrogant fantasy robot. Gay swordsman dude has a sword named "I am welcomed in the home of ravens and other scavengers welcomed in the wake of warriors. I am friend to carrion crows and wolves. I am carry me and kill with me and die with me where the road ends. I am not the honeyed promise of length of life in years to come, I am the iron promise of never being a slave". There's lots of violence, action, political scheming, brutality, grand secret plans, plot twists, 'divine' 'intervention', world building, PTSD, drug addiction, black magic, cursing, nostalgic meanderings of men well past their glory days, poo poo that's just plain awesome and no more homo-eroticism than is absolutely necessary. Well, maybe a bit...in any case you should read this book if you enjoyed A Song of Ice and Fire or The First Law trilogy. If it sounds ridiculous, it is, but it's awesome. I'm not sure if that's 'in spite of' or 'because of'. PopetasticPerson fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 02:03
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YES, thank you! I read the first book of the series years ago and meant to return to it some day. Those Goodreads reviews are really mixed, but I remember enjoying The Ill-Made Mute and its mythology. savinhill posted:I liked it a lot back when I read it, that was when it first came out though, with the sorta first wave of good post-GRRM fantasy like Abercrombie, Lynch, Bakker, Erikson, etc. so what felt good and original(I remember it had a good dark and brooding atmosphere + evil elves) about it could have been done a buncha other times by other authors since then. Ruckley does write some nice action/battle scenes if those are a priority for you. Hmmm, I don't really care about action scenes, more about good characters and interesting politics...how is it on those? I started reading the first chapter in the bookstore but was a little put off by the made-up foreign words, and was wondering if it's worth putting up with the annoyance? E:^^^^That sounds pretty good, I'll have to check that out too.
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Feb 21, 2015 02:59
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PopetasticPerson posted:Thanks guys, I've got more than enough recommendations to last me for the foreseeable future. I appreciate it. Yeah, we've had some discussion about this. I think most people who like Morgan's style loved the first two books - I only kind of liked the Kovacs novels but thought the first two Land books were amazing - but opinions are divided about the third.
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Feb 21, 2015 03:05
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Megazver posted:The new Nebula nominations are considerably less laughable than the Hugos: Annihilation or Three Body Problem are my favorites of the bunch, though I'll admit to not having read Goblin Emperor yet.
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Feb 21, 2015 04:21
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Ornamented Death posted:Shouldn't matter. Did you go to Amazon and add the Humble Bundle origination address to your allowed list?
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Feb 21, 2015 04:40
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thehomemaster posted:Three-Body Problem is my vote. Same. Though to be honest, I haven't read the rest. Ancillary Justice was ok, but not good enough for me to want to bother reading Sword, whereas The Three-Body Problem was so good that I'm itching for them to translate the next.
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Feb 21, 2015 05:22
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PopetasticPerson posted:Thanks guys, I've got more than enough recommendations to last me for the foreseeable future. I appreciate it. That sword name starts off badass, drops into unnecessary grimdark, then resurfaces like a leaping dolphin into being awesome again.
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Feb 21, 2015 09:18
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Rabbit Hill posted:Also, has anyone read Brian Ruckley's The Godless World trilogy? Would you recommend it? I felt it was a grimdark me-too from someone who wasn't quite ready to be published. The author probably had promise, but this particular book only got published because the publishers really, really wanted some grimdark to throw out to the market.
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Feb 21, 2015 10:42
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occamsnailfile posted:This would be fine if the passing back and forth happened in a vacuum, but it doesn't. White/American (European) appropriation of other cultural elements is often disrespectful and that's the main problem, but it is also enriching and promoting authors from the privileged majority for using the arts of others. That second is a more insidious and difficult thing to evaluate. It's not just Asian stuff obviously, but things like Elvis drawing a lot of his sound and style from black blues musicians who never got that kind of fame. So you have a taking that's one-sided and gives nothing back. What would "giving something back" mean? You make it sound strictly financial, but that's not practical for those of us who aren't Elvis. Would mentioning your appropriations in authors' notes and interviews be enough? systran posted:Another specific example is Alistair Reynolds in his new trilogy, in this "optimistic near future world" he has it that Africa became the dominant region in the near future, and basically African culture became what most sci-fi authors think Chinese culture will be. All of the main characters are from Kenya, and a main protagonist's name is Geoffrey. The IDEA of Africa becoming the dominant region is a cool one, and it's also an idea that is almost never considered in sci-fi. China Mountain Zhang's prediction of China taking everything over was a fresh change in the early 90s, when people still thought Japan would be big (China Mountain Zhang was written and published before the economy tanked), but in the mid 2010s, China as superpower is tired and old and boring; every sci-fi author is predicting it so much that it's just standard. In the afterword to Blue Remembered Earth, Reynolds says he was listening to a lot of African music, and there was this drummer named Geoffrey something that he liked, so he named the protagonist Geoffrey and set Africa as the major player in his world. Sf and fantasy also often aren't about real cultures. If Reynolds' book was set in Kenya today then obviously researching Kenya would be vital, but it's set a hundred and fifty years in the future (from looking at Wikipedia) in a culture with space travel and underwater civilisations. How relevant could that research be? I don't doubt that today's Africa will affect the Africa of the real 2160s, but trying to guess exactly how is a mug's game. Those 19th-century novels about life in 2000 weren't great predictions of the real world, after all. Likewise a not-Europe/Japan/wherever fantasyland relies on its research a lot more than a more fantastic milieu. Also, if you haven't read Ian McDonald's Chaga novels, you'd probably find them interesting at least. Stuporstar posted:Same. Though to be honest, I haven't read the rest. Ancillary Justice was ok, but not good enough for me to want to bother reading Sword, whereas The Three-Body Problem was so good that I'm itching for them to translate the next. I know the first volume was translated, but was it a complete novel or just the first third? I thought it was the former.
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Feb 21, 2015 16:07
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Ornamented Death posted:...How? They've been available as ebooks for years. Kobo store has a poo poo selection (it's improved recently though) and admittedly, I haven't been looking very hard.
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Feb 21, 2015 17:30
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House Louse posted:I know the first volume was translated, but was it a complete novel or just the first third? I thought it was the former. It's a complete novel, but the first in a trilogy.
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Feb 21, 2015 17:40
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Just started The Three-Body Proplem. Godamn that first chapter about the struggle session is heavy
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Feb 22, 2015 01:04
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systran posted:If every time a white male author tries to write about a non-white male, and they get roasted for not doing it well enough, they may just feel like they should go back to writing about white males. Well said.
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Feb 22, 2015 01:56
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:Well said. Ideally the goal should be "have more minority writers in scifi/fantasy" though.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:23
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computer parts posted:Ideally the goal should be "have more minority writers in scifi/fantasy" though. There are though, aren't there? They just need more promotion and interest because they might be a tough sell. Once minorities are more successful more would be writing. Maybe they need a award within the Hugos or Nebulas to promote minority writing in some way to help sales.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:31
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The Hugos and Nebulas this year are actually looking pretty solid in terms of representing a lot of different people from different cultures.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:32
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computer parts posted:Ideally the goal should be "have more minority writers in scifi/fantasy" though. It should be both that and to encourage non minority writers to write outside their comfort zone.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:47
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FowlTheOwl posted:There are though, aren't there? They just need more promotion and interest because they might be a tough sell. Once minorities are more successful more would be writing. Maybe they need a award within the Hugos or Nebulas to promote minority writing in some way to help sales. Dudes in this very thread have said they don't read books written by women.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:57
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computer parts posted:Ideally the goal should be "have more minority writers in scifi/fantasy" though. People don't complain about them appropriating stuff. Stuporstar posted:It's a complete novel, but the first in a trilogy. For some reason I thought it was the first volume of a triple-decker.
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Feb 22, 2015 03:03
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:It should be both that and to encourage non minority writers to write outside their comfort zone. Using their own culture represents an essentially neutral choice, but incorporating one that is outside of their own introduces an element of risk if they get the culture wrong. If the author is able to integrate the culture into the story in a meaningful way that doesn't feel tacked-on or unnecessary, it definitely elevates the work as a whole. These are the kind of books that win awards, and rightfully so. However, if it comes off as superfluous to the story or unnecessary, then it ends up being wasted research time for the author. Writing about an unfamiliar culture, even one that the author has a genuine interest in exploring, takes time and energy that could be spent improving the work in other ways, or on other writing. Worse still, if the author executes poorly, it stands a very real chance of dragging the work as a whole down. What might have otherwise been a decent story ends up falling somewhere between on the spectrum from tonedeaf to racist. Given that the fantasy and scifi genre seems to expect authors to crank out books very quickly, it doesn't surprise me to see authors look at the difficulty involved and decide to stick within their comfort zone.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:07
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I started Red Moon by Benjamin Percy today and I love it so far. It begins with werewolves committing 9-11, and as ridiculous as that sounds it's really good, it got that Stephen King epic feel to it.
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Feb 22, 2015 05:09
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