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amuayse posted:When should I ever recruit broadsword or axe over cheap spear infantry? Except against skeles. Axe never imo unless you have no choice. Broadswords do more damage and are better vs higher prot than a spear, assuming you need the infantry to do more than block and actually kill things.
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Feb 21, 2015 18:17
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amuayse posted:When should I ever recruit broadsword or axe over cheap spear infantry? Except against skeles. Enemies with high HP?
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Feb 21, 2015 18:36
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demons will just turn around and walk away from the fight if there aren't any points of undead leadership on the field, so i assume the other types of leadership are the same
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Feb 21, 2015 18:45
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I've had some problems trying to script battlemages. When I try to make them cast bigass battlespells like mass regen etc they don't always work. They have required magic paths and gems but no idea why they don't work. Any ideas?
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Feb 21, 2015 20:29
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Finnish Flasher posted:I've had some problems trying to script battlemages. When I try to make them cast bigass battlespells like mass regen etc they don't always work. They have required magic paths and gems but no idea why they don't work. Any ideas? If an enemy is considered too weak by the AI, the mages will go off-script instead of wasting your gems. Maybe this happened to you? Another problem is slaves in a communion dying before the bigass spells can be cast. I had this happen before: Several lucky hits killed some communion slaves in the 1-2 turns I had the mages scripted to buff and suddenly the communion was too weak to cast my bigass spells. The mages immediately went off script. 
Libluini fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 20:31
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One thing about thugs that I think gets overlooked a little bit compared to equal cost in summons is that thug gear is versatile. The few times I used thugs and mini-sc's effectively I feel like I mainly got my money's worth due to how much value you can get from constant item swaps. The issue with longdead summons etc is that they can't hold a gate cleaver one turn to kill an immobile pretender, have boots of flying next turn to cut off retreat paths, and have an elemental armor + fear/awe gear next turn to wade into a deathball fight. This PSA is brought to you by me getting 20 sentinels killed due to the most bullshit morale route I've ever seen against an immobile pretender. Equal gems in a marble oracle and I would have cleaned up easily, and certainly found other uses for him as the game went on.
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Feb 21, 2015 20:34
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Libluini posted:If an enemy is considered too weak by the AI, the mages will go off-script instead of wasting your gems. Maybe this happened to you? Hmm. I haven't set them up in communions. Do I need to do that if the fatigue cost is very high?
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Feb 21, 2015 20:50
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Finnish Flasher posted:Hmm. I haven't set them up in communions. Do I need to do that if the fatigue cost is very high? It can help. If you want to cast super-spells without communions, you have to make sure the spell in the script list is white (which means the mage can cast them without running into trouble). If a spells is red, something is preventing the mage from casting it (too much fatigue even with gems, not enough paths, not enough gems). Communions are special because you have to calculate for yourself if you have enough slaves for casting the spell. Interesting here is, even if your mage has enough paths and gems to normally cast the spell, if the fatigue is over a certain threshold, he still can't cast the spell (because I think, the amount of fatigue would instantly kill the mage). There are some spells with enough fatigue you start to run into trouble even if you have the right paths and a shitton of gems, because there's a limit on how much gems you can use to boost yourself. Loading up on some magic boosters to get extra-paths for some fatigue-reduction may help in this case.
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Feb 21, 2015 20:58
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Fatigue cost of a scripted spell is irrelevant to whether it gets cast, assuming you have met the requirements and are within the limits for gem expenditure and caster levels.Libluini posted:Interesting here is, even if your mage has enough paths and gems to normally cast the spell, if the fatigue is over a certain threshold, he still can't cast the spell (because I think, the amount of fatigue would instantly kill the mage). There are some spells with enough fatigue you start to run into trouble even if you have the right paths and a shitton of gems, because there's a limit on how much gems you can use to boost yourself. This isn't true, as far as I know. You can't actually deal fatigue converted to hitpoint damage to a mage by self-casting a spell.
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Feb 21, 2015 20:59
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TheDemon posted:Fatigue cost of a scripted spell is irrelevant to whether it gets cast, assuming you have met the requirements and are within the limits for gem expenditure and caster levels. Then the potential of damage alone is enough to prevent casting. Same principle. And because of this, fatigue cost of a scripted spell is important, especially since it sets the limits for gem expenditure and caster levels needed. A spell you can boost to with gems for example, can easily exceed the capability of a caster, regardless of how many gems you throw at the problem. And sometimes even if you have the paths, the amount of gems needed to get the caster to cast the spell is just silly and an extra path would be smarter.
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Feb 21, 2015 21:07
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Libluini posted:Then the potential of damage alone is enough to prevent casting. Same principle. And because of this, fatigue cost of a scripted spell is important, especially since it sets the limits for gem expenditure and caster levels needed. I think you're missing the point here. The mechanic is that there's a hard cap on how much fatigue you can take from a spell. Casting a spell cannot put you over 200 fatigue, as in casting a million fatigue spell will shoot a mage up to 200 fatigue with 0 damage taken, and he will start napping immediately. I think part of the confusion is because of scripts where spells are red even though a mage could cast X spell several times if he just ate a ton of fatigue on each casts. I haven't done much testing here but I think this is a separate mechanic where mage AI seems to prefer overspending gems if it means firing off several scripted spells in succession (without taking a nap in between because one of them puts him over 100). This is a separate issue though, it's not that the mage is afraid of zooming up to 200 fatigue on a single spell and a single spell script never has this problem that I've seen. TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 21:22
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TheresNoThyme posted:I think you're missing the point here. The mechanic is that there's a hard cap on how much fatigue you can take from a spell. Casting a spell cannot put you over 200 fatigue, as in casting a million fatigue spell will shoot a mage up to 200 fatigue with 0 damage taken, and he will start napping immediately. Yes, there's a hard cap on much fatigue you can take, but the casting of a spell can be prevented if you need gems to boost a path up. If you have the right amount of paths, the fatigue is only relevant in how many gems you need to get it down to the level where the AI will cast the spell. I know this because I once tried to cast a path 5 spell with a fatigue cost of 500 on several casters. On path 4 casters, the spell stayed red regardless of how many gems I threw around: The mage simply refused to cast it. He was theoretically able to cast it if he had used gems to boost, but it simply didn't work. On path 5 casters, the spell ate a lot of extra gems but worked. For comparisons sake, there are a ton of spells with less horrible fatigue costs and boosting + fatigue reduction with gems worked on them just fine. So I can only conclude, above a certain threshold the AI will simply refuse to follow the script if the fatigue cost is too high.
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Feb 21, 2015 21:31
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The reason a path 4 mage cant cast a path 5 spell with 500 fatigue is because it requires 5 gems, and you can only spend as many gems on a spell as you have levels in that path. To cast that spell at level 4 youd need 5 for the spell itself and 1 more to boost you up, but you can only use 4 gems at a time. Only a path 5 or up mage can cast that spell.
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Feb 21, 2015 21:34
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Diabl0658 posted:The reason a path 4 mage cant cast a path 5 spell with 500 fatigue is because it requires 5 gems, and you can only spend as many gems on a spell as you have levels in that path. To cast that spell at level 4 youd need 5 for the spell itself and 1 more to boost you up, but you can only use 4 gems at a time. Only a path 5 or up mage can cast that spell. Yea, i was gonna ask what the spell is for exactly this reason. Like I said in my post, I've never seen a single-spell script fail like you're describing unless the mage 100% couldn't cast it.
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Feb 21, 2015 21:37
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Diabl0658 posted:The reason a path 4 mage cant cast a path 5 spell with 500 fatigue is because it requires 5 gems, and you can only spend as many gems on a spell as you have levels in that path. To cast that spell at level 4 youd need 5 for the spell itself and 1 more to boost you up, but you can only use 4 gems at a time. Only a path 5 or up mage can cast that spell. this has revealed the reason my mage scripting fails like 50% of the time. 
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Feb 21, 2015 21:38
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Diabl0658 posted:The reason a path 4 mage cant cast a path 5 spell with 500 fatigue is because it requires 5 gems, and you can only spend as many gems on a spell as you have levels in that path. To cast that spell at level 4 youd need 5 for the spell itself and 1 more to boost you up, but you can only use 4 gems at a time. Only a path 5 or up mage can cast that spell. Ah, so the limiter isn't fatigue, but purely the number of gems? I didn't thought about that, most likely because I never count gems, I just pile them on until the script works.  So the spell will be cast regardless of how much fatigue is generated at least once and the fatigue will just immediately shoot up to 200 and the mage will take a nap? Man, I've wasted so many gems on additional fatigue reduction, that's kind of funny.
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Feb 21, 2015 21:51
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The mage in question is N2, with a thistle mace and a moonvine bracelet trying to cast mass regen. He's equpped with ~20 gems because he's following my army. The spell is shown in white in the commands section.
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Feb 21, 2015 21:54
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Finnish Flasher posted:The mage in question is N2, with a thistle mace and a moonvine bracelet trying to cast mass regen. He's equpped with ~20 gems because he's following my army. Your dumb wizards won't spend gems if the fight isn't determined to be "worth it." It's loving annoying.
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Feb 21, 2015 22:09
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just do what i tell you to do you stupid loving magic jackasses aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Feb 21, 2015 22:33
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The Bramble posted:Do indies are about their commanders leadership? If I assassinate all the leaders except a wizard or something with 10 leadership, and then attack that province when it has 70 indies but just that one commander, what will happen? One fun strategy I used once with LA C'tis was rushing Ench 1, then sending out loads of empoisoners to assassinate commanders, then marching in with a single scout to take the province. It worked pretty drat well against everything but throne titans. Then four people ganged up on me because I had easily the largest territory in the game. 
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Feb 21, 2015 22:35
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Ive probably lost half a dozen huge fights in dom3 and 4 because my Mass Flight caster decided Wind Guide was more important. If you want to guarantee Mass Flight or other spells with huge stamina costs get cast, make sure you have other mages casting the less expensive battlefield-wide spells in that school first. I really wish there was a "don't go off script unless you absolutely can't cast the scripted spell fucker idiot" checkbox
Flavahbeast fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 22:46
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Flavahbeast posted:Ive probably lost half a dozen huge fights in dom3 and 4 because my Mass Flight caster decided Wind Guide was more important. If you want to guarantee Mass Flight or other spells with huge stamina costs get cast, make sure you have other mages casting the less expensive battlefield-wide spells in that school first. I really wish there was a "don't go off script unless you absolutely can't cast the scripted spell fucker idiot" checkbox I lost an enormous stack of cap only sacreds set to guard commander because my god thought it was a better idea to not cast any spells at all since that would require gems.
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Feb 21, 2015 23:18
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the best mage thing is when they decide to go offscript to avoid wasting their fire jar / clam gems
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Feb 21, 2015 23:24
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Flavahbeast posted:Ive probably lost half a dozen huge fights in dom3 and 4 because my Mass Flight caster decided Wind Guide was more important. If you want to guarantee Mass Flight or other spells with huge stamina costs get cast, make sure you have other mages casting the less expensive battlefield-wide spells in that school first. I really wish there was a "don't go off script unless you absolutely can't cast the scripted spell fucker idiot" checkbox An inverse to conservative that just forces gem expendatures no matter what would be really good. "It's only a lesser horror I don't wanna leech. Gonna throw fire flies gently caress you." *dies, friends die, province lost* Samog posted:the best mage thing is when they decide to go offscript to avoid wasting their fire jar / clam gems Considering the game does actually know the difference between temp gems and real ones this is incredibly annoying.
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Feb 21, 2015 23:27
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All this poo poo is why I hate using mages Stop casting flying shards you stupid cock aaggjghhg 
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Feb 22, 2015 00:03
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Kitfox88 posted:All this poo poo is why I hate using mages On the other hand, it's kind of fun designing your little magic artillery pieces. Or magic suicide bombs in special cases. Now, if the spell descriptions of certain spells would at least partially resemble their actual worth on the battlefield, that would be fine, too. RIP, little astral terrorists.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:38
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What's a good strategy for LA Jomon? Looking through their unit and national summons list I thought they looked like a good next nation to try out, but my few test games I can't even figure out a good expansion strategy. The biggest problem is that their troops seem to be comically weak to archers since as far as I can tell none of them have shields. The resource cost for each unit is so high I can't replace my losses against even independents, let alone recruit multiple expansion armies. So far I've tried an E4N9 bless with yamabushi (they don't heal fast enough, plus they're cap-only so not a great long-term strategy) and several dragon or titan pretender chassis builds with A1 that can cast Air Shield. (after taking down 2-3 provinces with army in tow they either got killed or had multiple mortal wounds) Prior to this game most of my pretenders were straight research/forging/ritual machines but I don't think that will work this time. I feel like if I could survive long enough to get some decent research and artifact forging going under way I could do something with them but I can't get that far. I'm still pretty new to Dom4 so I'm probably just missing something obvious.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:11
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Jomon is secretly an UW nation dressed as a land nation, so get an UW fort ASAP.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:17
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Genpei Turtle posted:What's a good strategy for LA Jomon? Looking through their unit and national summons list I thought they looked like a good next nation to try out, but my few test games I can't even figure out a good expansion strategy. The biggest problem is that their troops seem to be comically weak to archers since as far as I can tell none of them have shields. The resource cost for each unit is so high I can't replace my losses against even independents, let alone recruit multiple expansion armies. Put some 1 man squads in the front on hold and attack, the AI will usually target them instead of your main army. Also try recruiting some indi troops that have shields.
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Feb 22, 2015 05:18
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a good thing to do as jomon is die
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Feb 22, 2015 05:25
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Jomonese armies are basically a screen of Ashigaru as arrow-catchers and a bunch of Aka Oni Samurai on the flanks and behind the Ashigaru to murder the poo poo out of dudes. Get a UW fort ASAP because Ryujin are amazing and its nice to have some Shark Warriors mixed into your dudes for extra bite. If you find decent indie crossbows add those in, same if you find some decent indies with shields to replace Ashigaru as arrow-catchers. Make sure you take at least 1 point in production for your dominion, possibly 2 or 3 points. You will also probably want to start with an awake dragon to assist in expansion efforts and possibly take a UW province to fort while wearing a ring of water breathing. Unfortunately you get lovely eastern dragons which aren't as good as western dragons but they can still help support your expansion army. If you don't take an awake PG then its worth taking a dormant PG with a bless, W9 is a good idea, A9 might actually not be terrible either; warrior monks with A9 are excellent arrow catchers and Tengu with A9 are quite nasty. If you can try and get your god to have the paths to cast the scaling summon Tengu spell (air and nature I think) for maximum Tengu. Jomon is kind of hanging by a thread a bit until they can start mass producing Tengu; Tengu are excellent and if you manage to get a W9 bless with them they will carve through entire armies like butter, even without a bless they're still great and you want as many of them as possible. Neruz fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 05:43
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Samog posted:a good thing to do as a non-blood nation is die
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Feb 22, 2015 05:45
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I've never seen jomon hold an uw fort long enough to make even a single ryujin, lemurs/atlantis/rlyeh will all wreck your poo poo uw.
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Feb 22, 2015 13:44
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So how much time, on average, is needed for an horror mark to invoke a Horror? Sometimes you get one with a item or being marked by an Astral mage, but to be honest after years ingame the horror never appeared.
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Feb 22, 2015 15:45
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Turin Turambar posted:So how much time, on average, is needed for an horror mark to invoke a Horror? Sometimes you get one with a item or being marked by an Astral mage, but to be honest after years ingame the horror never appeared. Depends on random rolls and the severity of the mark. Generally, too long to be worth your while.
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Feb 22, 2015 15:53
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I feel like maybe they crop up more often if AC is up, but that could just be confirmation bias. I always thought the point of horror marking people was to use Call Horror or that one Hell Power spell. Then the Horror goes after the other dudes while you run.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:43
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TheSpookyDanger posted:I feel like maybe they crop up more often if AC is up, but that could just be confirmation bias. I always thought the point of horror marking people was to use Call Horror or that one Hell Power spell. Then the Horror goes after the other dudes while you run. Horror marking combat pretenders (dragons, etc) is really effective. Ive had an SC titan wiped by 5-6 horrors after he ate about 10 horror marks wading through an enemy army. Lots of random horrors tear through SC gear (and either way, they add extra horror marks on top of those you already have). Since horror marks don't go away when a pretender is summoned back, it's a very permanent way to making an enemy pretender effectively useless
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Feb 22, 2015 17:12
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Neruz posted:A spell that summons an immobile bunker that spawns endless waves of poorly armed militia in combat. Thanks, I added this, had some teething issues with "endless waves" though:  So I made it summon a big batch at the start instead. http://www.dropbox.com/s/rorqedob3qb8yz4/sovirus%201.3.rar
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Feb 22, 2015 17:43
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Enjoy posted:Thanks, I added this, had some teething issues with "endless waves" though: What's the actual list of units and commanders? National spells?
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Feb 22, 2015 17:54
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Turin Turambar posted:So how much time, on average, is needed for an horror mark to invoke a Horror? Sometimes you get one with a item or being marked by an Astral mage, but to be honest after years ingame the horror never appeared. My prophet got horror marked like a year into the game when some random lovely event marked him. I think he was sitting in my cap at the time and it was a year into the game so there were a few dozen mages and half an army sitting there waiting for him to whisk them away on an adventure. Like three turn later loving Rarku, Hunter of Heros shows up and poo poo blasts him off the map.
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Feb 22, 2015 17:59
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