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Pohl posted:We have a lesser of two evils thread every election, but is that choice? Can you think of a Presidential election in the last 100 years when it wasn't a meaningful choice?
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Feb 22, 2015 07:36
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gnarlyhotep posted:Does anyone here really think voting matters? Because voting is a front to make people think there is actually a democracy when there has never been one. It's just the rich running things like they always have. I, too, remember being seventeen. More seriously, choosing not to participate in a system only means that those who do participate receive a disproportionate share of influence over that system. Every time someone like you says 'eh, gently caress it, it doesn't matter anyways, the system is a fraud' then every one of those rich people you claim run things has that much easier a time running things. By opting out you help to create the system you despise. And if that's your choice, if you're okay with that, then cool, man, have a day. Personally, I believe that it easier for the people I disagree with to bone me is dumb - maybe I'll get boned either way, but at least I'll know I didn't just bend over and think of England.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:44
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1912 The lesser of three evils (GO DEBS!)
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Feb 22, 2015 07:44
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Joementum posted:Can you think of a Presidential election in the last 100 years when it wasn't a meaningful choice? I would never say that. I know the parties are different, poo poo I was alive when Reagan was the President. He is talking about why we have so few choices, which is of course how our government was set up.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:45
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This thread has convinced me to vote and be happy.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:46
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gnarlyhotep posted:This thread has convinced me to vote and be happy. I disbelieve your sincerity. Also, don't be fuckin' happy about it. If the way the system is set up bugs you, sack up and do something about it.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:48
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I disbelieve your sincerity. Also, don't be fuckin' happy about it. If the way the system is set up bugs you, sack up and do something about it. What could I do about it? Please be specific.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:50
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Pegged Lamb posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1912 That's 103 years! But good point anyway. The splitting of the Republican ticket led to the Wilson Presidency, with disastrous consequences.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:50
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Pohl posted:I think that is what he is arguing, in that, their is no choice. We have a lesser of two evils thread every election, but is that choice? So you're literally trapped by the people in both parties who run things into choosing someone who sucks, and you'll keep embracing that suckage, because it's the best system you've got? How long do we have before the broader consequences of all this deliberate obstruction and time-wasting finally catch up with us? 10 years? 30? We're in a time of rapid and desperate change for the worse on a million fronts, and the minute Gnarlyhotep walks in here, all you can do is say yeah, we do the same thing every time hoping for a different result, and what we do matters, DAMMIT? Here's an idea if you don't believe in elections, the way I don't believe in elections: In every system like this, there has to be a Good Cop and a Bad Cop. They desperately need YOU to proliferate the false drama that all of this can affect you somehow. Meanwhile, pretty much everything they do is destined to extract and expropriate at the maximum level possible without going too far, and making you and the rest of the nation realize just how badly they're being hosed. My suggestion is just to cut out all the bullshit. Conservative authoritarians can't apologize or change course; that's just how they're built. I think every liberal and leftist and progressive and Democrat worth their salt should say, "You know what? My protest is literally the only thing lending the rapaciousness of the GOP legitimacy. So, knowing fully that it will cause horrible death and suffering, including likely my own, I join the Republicans in America by voting for Bad Cop, and Good Cop can lose everything. I genuinely believe that if we allow the GOP to win, their policy will be so horrible it will destroy this nation. So, straight-ticket Republican it is!" I believe the only thing that can destroy conservative policy in this country is giving the GOP complete support and free rein in implementing it. You get a lot of blighted land, dead people, and misery, and with it, hopefully a change of heart that can only come from the kind of suffering Americans have forgotten about. When bad people get full control, they go permanently out of style. I guess you noticed that nobody names their babies Adolf anymore. This is a way to get everyone to hate and/or ignore you, because everyone here HAS to believe that voting matters, this slow-rear end American constitutional system is still appropriate for times of this kind of emergency and global catastrophe, and mostly because it's fun to make fun of the accelerationist. But I'd suggest you join me if you really don't believe voting matters. Quidam Viator fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 07:52
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I disbelieve your sincerity. Also, don't be fuckin' happy about it. If the way the system is set up bugs you, sack up and do something about it. You can't do jack poo poo, the system was set up to protect itself. Nobody blow anything up, either. And don't talk about blowing poo poo up. Let the loving guys working overnight government jobs sleep. I'm already there man. Pohl fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 07:53
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Pohl posted:I would never say that. I know the parties are different, poo poo I was alive when Reagan was the President. This is only true in that President is a single man office. There can only be 2 or 3 serious candidates at most, any more and you typically have one side heavily split by competing candidates versus 1 guy with a reasonably large base of support, which allows them to easily secure a plurality at least, and thus the ability to easily get a majority in the Congress should the election get thrown to them due to lack of electoral college majority. Consider Germany: in the Chancellor position since WWII there have only been people from two of the many parties in the Bundestag, except for a short period where one from a third party served a short term after a resignation by a major party member. And in their President position, only 4 parties have been represented, one of them by a single month term. In the same time period, since WWII that is, 13 different parties have had seats in the legislature, and 5 have had them in the past 20 years or so. You can fit a lot of parties in hundreds of seats. But you have a hard time fitting them in single seats. Edit: Or consider Australia: 3 different parties have had the Prime Minister seat since WWII. (Only ones from the two major-est parties, Liberal and Labor, have held office since 1968) 11 different parties currently sit in the legislature's two halves. Another dozen or so have held a seat at least since WWII. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 07:54
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gnarlyhotep posted:What could I do about it? Please be specific. Stop worrying and learn to love the bomb.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:55
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gnarlyhotep posted:What could I do about it? Please be specific. gently caress, I don't know, they're your issues, not mine. I'm not a guidance counselor. Find a candidate you can stand and try to support them. Follow Hunter S. Thompson's example and run for office on a platform of legalizing drugs and throwing land developers in the stocks. Follow around candidates and make a note of every time they say something that's utter bullshit and make sure everyone knows about it. You're a big boy, you can figure something out.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:56
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:gently caress, I don't know, they're your issues, not mine. I'm not a guidance counselor. Find a candidate you can stand and try to support them. Follow Hunter S. Thompson's example and run for office on a platform of legalizing drugs and throwing land developers in the stocks. Follow around candidates and make a note of every time they say something that's utter bullshit and make sure everyone knows about it. You're a big boy, you can figure something out. and none of that changes anything
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Feb 22, 2015 07:56
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paranoid randroid posted:Stop worrying and learn to love the bomb. Now there's something I can get behind.
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Feb 22, 2015 07:57
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gnarlyhotep posted:and none of that changes anything https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy
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Feb 22, 2015 07:58
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gnarlyhotep posted:What could I do about it? Please be specific. Specifically for the Presidential primary, since that's the topic of this thread, you can volunteer for or donate to the primary campaign of a candidate for one of the two major parties whose policies appeal to you. Warning: you will need to settle for a best-case scenario where your policy topic(s) of interest gets introduced into the debate, extracting a pledge from the candidates to support your position. This may, or may not, lead to incremental policy change should your party win the election.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:01
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gnarlyhotep posted:and none of that changes anything If you dislike the American system for choosing leaders, devise your own and start a movement to adopt it. If enough people like it, you can get the Constitution amended with your system. But then that's going to require running a political campaign to build popular support for it, then asking people to vote for your stuff. Then the Illuminati who actually control all the elections will have to kill you to make sure your reforms are never enacted. But since voting doesn't matter, there's no point in doing all that anyway.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:03
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Joementum posted:Specifically for the Presidential primary, since that's the topic of this thread, you can volunteer for or donate to the primary campaign of a candidate for one of the two major parties whose policies appeal to you. Unfortunately I have a job that requires me to work every day of the week and sometimes weekends. I need to go to work to make my living. So I guess I'll have to relegate my political change activities to bitching on the internet. You win this one, Joementum.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:08
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Deteriorata posted:But since voting doesn't matter, there's no point in doing all that anyway. agreed
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Feb 22, 2015 08:09
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Nintendo Kid posted:This is only true in that President is a single man office. There can only be 2 or 3 serious candidates at most, any more and you typically have one side heavily split by competing candidates versus 1 guy with a reasonably large base of support, which allows them to easily secure a plurality at least, and thus the ability to easily get a majority in the Congress should the election get thrown to them due to lack of electoral college majority. gently caress, you just said everything I was going to. Thank you.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:09
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gnarlyhotep posted:So I guess I'll have to relegate my political change activities to bitching on the internet. That makes two of us!   But on the plus side, Rand Paul and Rick Perry are going to say lots of stupid things in the next year and we get to post and laugh at them. 
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Feb 22, 2015 08:10
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Joementum posted:But on the plus side, Rand Paul and Rick Perry are going to say lots of stupid things in the next year and we get to post and laugh at them. now that's something I can get into
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Feb 22, 2015 08:12
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gnarlyhotep posted:Unfortunately I have a job that requires me to work every day of the week and sometimes weekends. I need to go to work to make my living. So I guess I'll have to relegate my political change activities to bitching on the internet. You win this one, Joementum. I just talked to my neighbor about going to the Grand Canyon before it gets hot. It isn't going to change the world, but it sure as gently caress is going to make me feel better. Edit: I know this is dumb, but welp. This is what we have. Unless you are willing to do something stupid that won't change jack poo poo, settle in and grab a cold one. Pohl fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 08:13
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I hope Rand Paul runs Libertarian after failing to clinch the nomination and spoils the election. Of course he'll probably have to get hit in the head during a jousting contest before considering that.
Pegged Lamb fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 08:17
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Pegged Lamb posted:I hope Rand Paul runs Libertarian after failing to clinch the nomination and spoils the election. Of course he'll probably have to get hit in the head during a jousting contest before considering that. Libertarian Rand wouldn't spoil the election any more than various regional third parties spoiled it by nominating Ron for the presidency every four years, particularly with mainstream Republicans becoming more comfortable with libertarian rhetoric. The national libertarians aren't giving him the nomination, so he would have to rely on local fringe-conservative groups. Yeah he'd pull some votes but mostly in non-competitive states. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 08:26
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Why are we not focusing on Rand Paul being hit in the head during a theoretical jousting contest? That is the best part. I need some fan fiction, stat.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:31
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Pohl posted:Why are we not focusing on Rand Paul being hit in the head during a theoretical jousting contest? That is the best part. As long as it ends with him being carted off mumbling about liberal media corrupting his meaning.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:40
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TARDISman posted:As long as it ends with him being carted off mumbling about liberal media corrupting his meaning. Is he under a white sheet?
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Feb 22, 2015 08:48
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Pohl posted:Is he under a white sheet? As if he'd let himself be under any other color.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:50
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Pohl posted:Why are we not focusing on Rand Paul being hit in the head during a theoretical jousting contest? That is the best part. I dunno, the idea of Rand getting presidential nominations from a bunch of one-state cults and white-supremacist parties he's never heard of the way his dad did is pretty funny regardless of head-bopping Particularly as he might fail to obliviously aw-shucks his way through it like Ron and attempt to craft a media narrative around his success as a write-in candidate among Pendleton-area survivalists or disgruntled Pentecostal splinter groups or whatever PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 08:55
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gnarlyhotep posted:What could I do about it? Please be specific. The template for a move to the left has been demonstrated on the right - not sure if you need the kochs but left win primary activism in safe seats is the way to go
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Feb 22, 2015 09:30
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:The template for a move to the left has been demonstrated on the right - not sure if you need the kochs but left win primary activism in safe seats is the way to go There is no choice other than to drink a lot. Drink more.
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Feb 22, 2015 09:37
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Quidam Viator posted:I believe the only thing that can destroy conservative policy in this country is giving the GOP complete support and free rein in implementing it. You get a lot of blighted land, dead people, and misery, and with it, hopefully a change of heart that can only come from the kind of suffering Americans have forgotten about. When bad people get full control, they go permanently out of style. I guess you noticed that nobody names their babies Adolf anymore. What if the economic collapse and coup happens but we end up with a fascist dictator less stupid than Hitler or Mussolini? Ready for 40 years of American Francoism? I'll call this the good option. The bad option is you're right and we do get an insane megalomaniac like Hitler. Only it's America so it'll be a Christian Dominionist, and rather than getting invaded we'll have a nuclear exchange. Still think accelerationism is cool?
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Feb 22, 2015 14:48
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Quidam Viator posted:I believe the only thing that can destroy conservative policy in this country is giving the GOP complete support and free rein in implementing it. You get a lot of blighted land, dead people, and misery, and with it, hopefully a change of heart that can only come from the kind of suffering Americans have forgotten about. When bad people get full control, they go permanently out of style. I guess you noticed that nobody names their babies Adolf anymore. Lot of Victorias around still.
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Feb 22, 2015 14:53
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Scudder/Huckabee 2016
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Feb 22, 2015 15:02
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Joementum posted:To be somewhat fair to them, that's from the hashtag that developed during his "filibuster" where he talked about the danger of the federal government using drones to spy on your mailbox.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:21
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Joementum posted:To be somewhat fair to them, that's from the hashtag that developed during his "filibuster" where he talked about the danger of the federal government using drones to spy on your mailbox. Developed? I thought they stole it from Wendy. Or was her filibuster after his, it's been so long since.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:24
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VitalSigns posted:What if the economic collapse and coup happens but we end up with a fascist dictator less stupid than Hitler or Mussolini? Ready for 40 years of American Francoism? I'll call this the good option. Uh yeah that sounds way cooler than a boring Clinton vs Bush rematch.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:27
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Also I agree with good gbs mod gnarlyhotep. Picking between two wall street candidates is no choice at all. End the Fed.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:37
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