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Any tips for a Vitalist planning on playing party healer? I don't want to miss any must-have feats/abilities/etc.
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Feb 20, 2015 19:04
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Tykero posted:Any tips for a Vitalist planning on playing party healer? I don't want to miss any must-have feats/abilities/etc. The healing part is actually pretty straightforward just with class abilities, though make sure you have a solid understanding how Collective, Collective Healing, Spirit of Many, and Medic Powers interact ("power that targets willing participants", "power that targets willing participants with a range greater than personal or has the Network descriptor", "power that targets Unwilling Participant 'willing participants'", "power that targets Unwilling Participant 'willing participants' with a range greater than personal or has the Network descriptor", "power with the Network descriptor after you've hit 2nd level" are all different use cases). Once you hit 3rd level, Steal Health will be your bread and butter, and Request Aid at 5th is almost exactly the same as having natural healing added to your power list. The big thing to keep in mind is that Collective Healing lets you rearrange any healed hit points or ability points among any willing member of your collective, from any source, so you can do weird stuff like Transfer Wounds on one party member and fwoosh the actual hp over to the other guy out in front, chug a big potion and split up the hp among the party, or use a wand of lesser restoration on one party member and do the actual restoring on the guy grappling the vampire. As you would imagine, this also goes really well with anything that gives fast healing or area effect healing, since you can tetris those hp around to make sure none are wasted. General other thoughts: - Blues get Stealth as a class skill, and your Collective doesn't need line of sight, so staying out of combat while still actively helping the party is real easy; Elans are just rad in general; Humans can get a bonus power every 3 levels, which is amazing - Expanded Knowledge (dimension swap) goes great with buffing, and if you're using it on members of your Collective its Close range becomes irrelevant - the Unwilling Participant feat is pretty cool, if you can wrap your head around its strange mechanics (force an enemy that fails a non-mind-affecting Will save into your collective; it must make the same Will save again or it's considered willing for a power manifestation, or you can avoid another save by using Spirit of Many to manifest Network powers on it as though they were non-mind-affecting and allowed no save) Roadie fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 23:07
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The Soulthief method is also really good if you don't want to just hide in the back and be the healbot. It rewards you for dealing damage by healing you (which in turn can be used to heal others in your collective).
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Feb 20, 2015 23:35
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My favourite way of playing the vitalist is stacking the sadist and life leech archetypes. You just ruin your enemies day and buff/heal your party members at the same time. Transferring nauseated or some other terrible condition from your ally to an enemy never gets old.
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Feb 20, 2015 23:46
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CaptainPsyko posted:There are ways to get more without getting into the more complicated cheese posted by Ambi - a Tailblade gives you a secondary Attack at -5, and with a level 1 extract that will last all day by mid levels, it's a reach weapon, which is convenient. There are also some magic items to pick up things like a gore attack. Honestly. I recommend against bothering with most of the extra limb/tentacle chese that's theoretically possible - it's feat intensive, and generally leads to weird rules arguments in my experience - far more trouble than it's worth. Generally the helm is probably the only worthwhile one; it's not super expensive, doesn't require activation, gives a primary attack, and gives a couple of other minor effects. Also it's cool as hell. You may have noticed getting extra natural attacks pretty much always comes at the cost of grafting stuff to yourself, becoming something from the island of Dr Moreau, so don't think you have to. Bite/Claw/Claw is a great set, and as other people have pointed out, 3 or 4 natural attacks lets you compete against iteratives pretty drat well given they are all at full BAB. Also how does Vitalist work out in play? I love the class, but the networks and HP-sharing always seemed like they might slow down play, or burn out the player due to keeping track of everything.
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Feb 21, 2015 12:29
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Ambi posted:The tentacles straight up say that they give an extra natural attacks, albeit a weak secondary, but yeah the rest are totally cheesy. I don't think there's an equivalent for Pathfinder, but someone made a list of all the ways to gain natural attacks in 3.5, which includes a bunch of not-stupidly-priced magical items if your DM allows backwards compatibility. If not there's a neat helm that gives a Gore attack, a cloak that gives a pair of tentacles for a minute per day, and the infamous Fleshwarped Scorpion Tail - extra primary attacks limited only by your gold and willingness to graft tails onto yourself. There's also a cloak that can be transformed into a stinger, but it's not really worth the massive asking price. It's not at all the most optimal, but the Totemist class is my favorite way to do this kind of thing, since you can get 6 claw attacks with rend, 2 wing attacks, a tail attack, and 2 slam attacks all at once.
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Feb 21, 2015 12:36
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Ambi posted:Also how does Vitalist work out in play? I love the class, but the networks and HP-sharing always seemed like they might slow down play, or burn out the player due to keeping track of everything. It's really not a big deal. You just ask on your turn who needs healing and how much and do your best to accommodate. You don't have to keep track of everything and it doesn't take any more time than a standard healer since that's still the information you need to know for them.
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Feb 21, 2015 16:28
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Roadie posted:It's not at all the most optimal, but the Totemist class is my favorite way to do this kind of thing, since you can get 6 claw attacks with rend, 2 wing attacks, a tail attack, and 2 slam attacks all at once. I always wind up getting sidetracked into some natural attack build or the other as well, favorites so far have been a Tiefling Dragon Disciple that used the Dragon Style feats to do as much as 2x STR in dragon form with claw/claw/bite, 2 wings, and a tail, or a Skinwalker Vivisectionist who had claw/claw/bite/gore and 2 hoof attacks plus sneak attack at level 2 - quite frankly that was broke as hell at that level.
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Feb 21, 2015 17:27
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As a level 5 sorcerer, level 4 dragon disciple, Gnome how many feats should I have? I think it should be 6? 1,3,5,7,9, and Bonus?
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Feb 22, 2015 08:06
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Any suggestions on how to break stuff as a sorceror? Level 4 atm and everything sucks. I want to focus on damage mostly.
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Feb 22, 2015 10:04
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Xun posted:Any suggestions on how to break stuff as a sorceror? Level 4 atm and everything sucks. I want to focus on damage mostly. What are you allowed to build from? Core, Paizo, or Anything?
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Feb 22, 2015 10:06
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Gensuki posted:What are you allowed to build from? Core, Paizo, or Anything? Core and Paizo, basically no third party stuff.
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Feb 22, 2015 10:10
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Xun posted:Any suggestions on how to break stuff as a sorceror? Level 4 atm and everything sucks. I want to focus on damage mostly. A damaging spellcaster is as far as you can get from "break[ing] stuff". Even noncasters can do good damage. Being a spellcaster is about doing all the other stuff that noncasters can't ever hope to do (fly, teleport, etc.) and then also being good at combat on top of that. And being "good at combat" for a spellcaster means doing anything but damage. Blind, stun, AoE trip, AoE nauseate, AoE grapple, whatever. Damage rarely wins.
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Feb 22, 2015 10:13
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OutsideAngel posted:A damaging spellcaster is as far as you can get from "break[ing] stuff". Even noncasters can do good damage. Being a spellcaster is about doing all the other stuff that noncasters can't ever hope to do (fly, teleport, etc.) and then also being good at combat on top of that. I'm trying to do that right now but it feels like I'm hindering the party more than helping. "Oh you stopped the bad guys from getting to us with silent image? too bad we can't hit them either!", same with obscuring mist. Our gm has a fondness for undead and construct stuff too, so color spray ends up doing nothing half the time. I feel really useless, I'm not sure if it's because I'm picking bad spells or it's just because we're all level 4. I'm not too familiar with pathfinder 
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Feb 22, 2015 10:23
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Xun posted:I'm trying to do that right now but it feels like I'm hindering the party more than helping. "Oh you stopped the bad guys from getting to us with silent image? too bad we can't hit them either!", same with obscuring mist. Our gm has a fondness for undead and construct stuff too, so color spray ends up doing nothing half the time. I feel really useless, I'm not sure if it's because I'm picking bad spells or it's just because we're all level 4. I'm not too familiar with pathfinder Well, at L4 you get all the bitchin' battlefield control like Glitterdust and that dumb PF spell that just makes a pit wherever, and of course Web, plus then you start gaining access to the spells that make the noncasters cry (cast Invisibility, make a Rogue look dumb). Color spray does win fights, but your GM seems to be playing around it. So you can use Grease to win fights instead. Most baddies strong against Color Spray (zombies and poo poo) just flop around like beached fish on top of Grease. Very few things have both a high Reflex and a high Will.
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Feb 22, 2015 10:43
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And since you're level 4, Dazing Spell combo'd with this baby is always relevant. It's possible to get a metamagic cost of 0 for Dazing Spell on one spell IIRC, and it really should be this one. Some damage, and then a hilarious amount of 'save or lose turn' on top.
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Feb 22, 2015 15:43
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Transient People posted:And since you're level 4, Dazing Spell combo'd with this baby is always relevant. It's possible to get a metamagic cost of 0 for Dazing Spell on one spell IIRC, and it really should be this one. Some damage, and then a hilarious amount of 'save or lose turn' on top. Dazing Spell is +3 spell levels, how can you get that to 0?
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Feb 22, 2015 19:53
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Inverse Icarus posted:Dazing Spell is +3 spell levels, how can you get that to 0? Spell Perfection at level 15?
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Feb 22, 2015 20:27
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Magical Lineage lets you get it down by one, at least.
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Feb 22, 2015 23:02
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RPZip posted:Magical Lineage lets you get it down by one, at least. Wayang spell hunter is another trait that can be used to get it down. With both it's +1, but I have no idea how to get it lower without the aforementioned spell perfection. That said, most GMs probably frown upon abusing dazing spell too much. It's not exactly a tactic that makes battles interesting.
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Feb 22, 2015 23:05
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Andrast posted:Wayang spell hunter is another trait that can be used to get it down. With both it's +1, but I have no idea how to get it lower without the aforementioned spell perfection. Pretty sure those two don't stack.
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Feb 22, 2015 23:11
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CaptainPsyko posted:Spell Perfection at level 15? Fair enough, but we were talking about a 4th level character. Magical Lineage is a trait you should be getting at first level, before you know any 2nd level spells. Can you take Magical Lineage with a spell you don't know at 1st level? I guess RAW it doesn't say anything against it, but we've always assumed you had to pick a spell you could actually cast.
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Feb 22, 2015 23:14
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CaptainPsyko posted:Pretty sure those two don't stack. Well, they did at some point. I don't know if it got some extra rulings or errata afterwards though. A reasonable GM would probably forbid it so it's a pretty moot point anyway. Andrast fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 23:15
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Inverse Icarus posted:Fair enough, but we were talking about a 4th level character.
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Feb 22, 2015 23:23
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Yes, you can take Magical Lineage on a spell you don't currently have the ability to cast, otherwise it'd be useless for characters who can't cast spells at 1st level.
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Feb 22, 2015 23:27
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Zurai posted:Yes, you can take Magical Lineage on a spell you don't currently have the ability to cast, otherwise it'd be useless for characters who can't cast spells at 1st level. I mean... It is also useless for classes that can't cast spells. Not all feats/traits are for all people, even if there's nothing stopping you from getting them e.g. Wizards can get Cleave or Improved Bullrush.
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Feb 23, 2015 02:16
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Gensuki posted:I mean... It is also useless for classes that can't cast spells. Yes, but traits are all character background, not things which are learned in play. Your background doesn't change. You always had that magical lineage, even if you didn't learn to cast spells until 5th level because you're a Paladin or whatever. Besides, the official answer is that yes, you can pick any spell for Magical Lineage, regardless which spells you have available when you gain the trait.
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Feb 23, 2015 03:03
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Ok so I'm dicking around with a goofy melee damage dealer in PFS play. How many claw attacks can I get? As an example, bloodrager - draconic gives me two claw attacks, Feral Mutagen gives two claws and a bite. Presumably one attack per limb, so can I get two on hands and two on feet, for 5 total attacks while under Mutagen?
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Feb 23, 2015 04:41
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sugar free jazz posted:Ok so I'm dicking around with a goofy melee damage dealer in PFS play. No, claws are explicitly hands only. Unless you can get four arms by some means other than the Alchemist discovery, which explicitly says no extra attack, you can't stack claw attacks.
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Feb 23, 2015 04:43
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Are skinwalkers PFS legal? Because Ragebred Skinwalkers can use their Change Shape ability to get a gore attack or two hoof attacks, and with the Extra Feature feat they can get both. e: Also, I've got a question. Is there any reason for Rangers to have limited choices for possible animal companions? Beyond "gently caress martials", that is. Red Metal fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Feb 23, 2015 |
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Feb 23, 2015 04:53
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Red Metal posted:Are skinwalkers PFS legal? Because Ragebred Skinwalkers can use their Change Shape ability to get a gore attack or two hoof attacks, and with the Extra Feature feat they can get both. The same reason that rangers went from having better animal companions than druids to much lower level ones. So, yes. "gently caress martials."
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Feb 23, 2015 05:41
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CaptainPsyko posted:No, claws are explicitly hands only. Unless you can get four arms by some means other than the Alchemist discovery, which explicitly says no extra attack, you can't stack claw attacks. I can't find where that is, so I'm probably just missing it. Can you point me towards where it says claws are hands only?
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Feb 23, 2015 06:02
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Red Metal posted:Are skinwalkers PFS legal? Because Ragebred Skinwalkers can use their Change Shape ability to get a gore attack or two hoof attacks, and with the Extra Feature feat they can get both.
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Feb 23, 2015 06:08
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sugar free jazz posted:I can't find where that is, so I'm probably just missing it. Can you point me towards where it says claws are hands only? It got "clarified" in an FAQ.
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Feb 23, 2015 06:18
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That's fairly lame, thanks yo. Edit: Another question. Are there rules in PFS for the number of non-combat hirelings you can have? I got an Investigator who's a noble and is really spoiled + worthless, so I have a porter, valet, herald, and an entertainer. Porter carries around all my poo poo, sets up my pavilion when we camp, etc. Valet takes care of provisions and fancy poo poo for me, blah blah. Couldn't find any rules about how many I'm allowed to have. sugar free jazz fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Feb 23, 2015 |
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Feb 23, 2015 06:41
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Red Metal posted:Are skinwalkers PFS legal? Because Ragebred Skinwalkers can use their Change Shape ability to get a gore attack or two hoof attacks, and with the Extra Feature feat they can get both. They aren't legal baseline unless you got a boon for them. You can only be a core race or an Eastern race right now. Also, just buy a Helm of the Mammoth Lord if you're going Ragebred Skinwalker and save a feat. It's cheap! Oh, and yes, it's because martials aren't allowed to have nice things. A Summoner can turn his eidolon into a flying tentacle monster and ride it around like a pony, that's okay, so maybe go there if you want a rad eldritch horror pet.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:07
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Huh so apparently the Harbringer isn't the only upcoming Path of War class. There is a Path of War Expanded in the works which has the Harbringer, a Zealot, and some more options including archetypes for classes to give them maneuvers. So the Zealot looks like a Paladin like Psionic Path of War style character. Gets Maneuvers and Stances. Readies Maneuvers by spending 10 minutes, which also lets them change which ones are readied, and of course starts each battle with all readied maneuvers unexpended. Can recover one maneuver by spending a standard action, or can recover Cha mod, minimum 2, by using a standard action to Aid Another. The latter also activates their Zeal feature. The Zealot has a Collective, like some of the other Psionic classes, that they can bring people into. Up to their Cha mod or half their Zealot level, whichever is higher. Has a general understanding of their collective's condition, can use willing target/harmless maneuvers on a member of the collective no matter the range, which is probably good for any that might heal or something. If they have spells, psionic powers, etc from a multiclass they can use them through the collective too. The Zealot's Zeal grants people in their collective a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls for a round every time the Zealot hits an enemy with a strike maneuver, also when they use Aid Another. This bonus goes up at 5th and every additional 5 levels. And gains other bonuses from other features at later levels. The Zealot picks a Mission, like a cause or well mission. Each has benefits that are gained at certain levels, granting bonuses when Zeal is triggered, a feature that happens when you maintain psionic focus, and finally two augments to your maneuvers that look like they use Psionic Points to do something additional. The Zealot gains Convictions at various levels, each grants a special ability like using Cha instead of Wis for qualifying for Psionic feats. The Zealot gets Martyrdom where once a round when a willing creature in the collective is hit you can transfer 5 damage per Zealot level to yourself, and can spend up to 1 PP per Zealot level to negate 3 damage per PP of the damage you transfer to yourself. Gains further benefits at higher levels, including a +Cha to CMB if you have used Martyrdom in the last round, increasing the amount per PP that is negated, etc. At higher levels the Zealot gains the ability to use Aid Another at any distance for members in their Collective, gain Telepathy with members of their Collective, the ability to Aid Another when knocked to 0 or less hp, a special stance that all members of the collective can enter at the same time, the ability to spend PP when using a maneuver to let someone in your collective also use that maneuver within the next minute. Where the Zealot is Psionic the Harbringer is more magical. They get Stances and Maneuvers as well. Of course they do they are a Path of war class. They reclaim a single expended maneuver whenever they Claim a creature, a feature they have, and recover a number of maneuvers equal to Int mod when a creature they have Claimed is reduced to zero or less hp. Also they can spend a standard action to recover a single maneuver. The Harbringer has Dark Claim, as a swift action can Claim an enemy that they can see (even with special senses like blindsense or tremorsense) within close range. They automatically know the position of creatures they have Claimed, but still have total concealment against a Claimed creature they can no longer see. The Harbringer can have a number of Claimed creatures equal to or less than their Int mod at an given time. At 1st level they add half their Int mod as an insight bonus to attack rolls, at 4th they add their Int mod to Fort and Ref saves, at 7th the insight bonus to attacks because full Int mod, and at 10th they gain an insight bonus to damage rolls equal to their Int mod. They gain a competence bonus to speed of +10 feet at two different points, for a total of +20 by 10th level. The Harbringer gets a Dark Focus where they choose a discipline and get various bonuses to it as they level. Eventually they can expend a maneuver to instead use a maneuver of a lower level from their Dark Focus, and at 20th all of the maneuvers in their Dark Focus count as readied at the start of each combat. At 3rd level the Harbringer can move up to their speed as a swift action 1/encounter, gaining extra uses as they level. At 9th and 15th level they choose a feature, like a fly speed equal to their land speed, a swim speed and no need to breathe, a climb speed and a bonus to grapple, or teleport up to their speed as a move action. They gain the ability to initiate a readied strike as an immediate action once per encounter when they reduce an opponent to 0 or fewer hp. The Harbringer gains a dodge bonus to AC and Reflex in any round in which they have moved at least 10 feet. Gain the ability to use Magic Aura at will. Gain the ability where when flanking a creature that creature suffers a -2 penalty to saving throws and skill checks. Eventually get the ability to move half their speed as an immediate action once per encounter. Eventually creatures Claimed by the Harbringer are also shaken while the Claim persists. The Harbringer gets the ability, as a swift action once per encounter, to treat close range as their melee reach for the purpose of initiating strikes, for Int mod rounds. Doesn't help with threatening, but can stay a bit further away and hit things. Eventually gets something kind of like Spring Attack, but for initiating a single strike during the movement. At 18th level the Harbringer can initiate a strike when they make an attack of opportunity. And at 19th level maneuvers initiated by the Harbringer ignore any and all immunities possessed by the target. Some of the Maneuvers in one of the Discipline either curse the target or have additional benefits against cursed targets, and there is a feat to have Claimed creatures count as cursed. Another Discipline available to them has a lot of mirror based stuff, like copying someone's bonus to something, or copying an attack roll, or make attacks against touch ac while attacks against you are against touch ac. Also a stance that gives you Mirror Image. Ryuujin fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Feb 26, 2015 |
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Feb 26, 2015 18:06
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Ryuujin posted:Huh so apparently the Harbringer isn't the only upcoming Path of War class. There is a Path of War Expanded in the works which has the Harbringer, a Zealot, and some more options including archetypes for classes to give them maneuvers. Harbinger, Zealot, Mystic (subject to rename), the Mithral Current and mounted combat disciplines, Warpaths, etc. etc. etc. This is really old news.
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Feb 26, 2015 18:07
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I'll be playing a Mystic soon, they're looking pretty hilarious. I've got a guided greataxe with Weapon Group Adaptation (Which lets you use it with Broken Blade maneuvers)
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Feb 27, 2015 00:50
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Transient People posted:Harbinger, Zealot, Mystic (subject to rename), the Mithral Current and mounted combat disciplines, Warpaths, etc. etc. etc. This is really old news. Ah, I knew about the Harbringer some time ago but not the others. Has the Mystic been playtested anywhere? Where I saw the playtest stuff for the rest didn't seem to have it, but did mention it might get renamed. Sounds like it might be elemental themed or something. Also is there a way to get Broken Sword on a Monk or Brawler?
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Feb 27, 2015 06:29
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