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Spacebump posted:I really hate that DC won't let them do Batman/Superman stuff ever. I understand movies make more than tv shows but that doesn't mean they can't coexist. At the very least they should have let them talk about rumors of a Batman in Gotham. I like Gotham. There is definitely a lot of the writer' shoehorning characters in all over the place for no other purpose other than to say LOOK AT US GUYS IT'S LITTLE POISON IVY. If you can get past that though, the stories have been interesting and the characters are pretty good. I like Donal Logue's Bullock a whole lot, and Fish Mooney is pretty interesting. It's fun to speculate on how long she'll be around, because obviously she's a whole new character so she can't be around when Batman shows up. I am also enjoying speculating on when characters who appear good on Gotham, like the Riddler, will have their mental break and turn into super villains. McSpankWich fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 23, 2015 |
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Feb 23, 2015 19:05
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McSpankWich posted:I am also enjoying speculating on when characters who appear good on Gotham, like the Riddler, will have their mental break and turn into super villains. I thought Riddler was a scientist working for Wayne Enterprises and he became a supervillain when Bruce Wayne wouldn't give him the green light for his crazy mind-control-via-television thingie? At least that's what I remember from one of the old movies.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:19
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Spacebump posted:Is Gotham worth watching or should I just ignore it? Gotham is a grimdark prequel to Adam West's Batman. It starts out rather disjointed with some characters being uberhams while others are trying to play it straight, but after a few episodes everyone starts finding some middle ground. You wind up with (mostly) serious characters in a crazy city, and while I wouldn't call it good enough to get off my "guilty pleasure" list, it works. Aside from Fish and Barbara, but it works for everyone else. Also, Penguin and Zsaz alone make it worth watching. Those actors are stealing every scene they're in.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:34
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Bruceski posted:Also, Penguin and Zsaz alone make it worth watching. Those actors are stealing every scene they're in. I only watched the first 5 or 6 episodes (I've fallen way behind) but this is truth. 
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Feb 23, 2015 19:41
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enraged_camel posted:I thought Riddler was a scientist working for Wayne Enterprises and he became a supervillain when Bruce Wayne wouldn't give him the green light for his crazy mind-control-via-television thingie? I'm pretty sure this is only from Batman: Forever. Though I never really read any origin story comics about the Riddler, so I suppose it could be true. Also in Gotham he's the CSI for GCPD, so even if they're going with that origin story, he has to quit the GCPD and go work for Wayne Enterprises at some point to set it in motion.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:43
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Spacebump posted:I really hate that DC won't let them do Batman/Superman stuff ever. Don't get too upset about this, it isn't actually a thing. This is completely just an assumption on the part of fans. There was a so-called "bat embargo" in place against having Batman stuff on TV a decade ago, but clearly that's no longer the case. I'm sure if Guggenheim wanted Batman to show up on Arrow it would be very tricky for him, and his request might be turned down in the end, but there's no reason to believe he's not even allowed to make that request. He just doesn't even want Batman to show up. They've made references to Batman stuff, cities, and used Batman villains whenever they wanted. This idea that "DC won't let them do Batman stuff ever" isn't grounded on reality.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:52
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Bruceski posted:Gotham is a grimdark prequel to Adam West's Batman. It starts out rather disjointed with some characters being uberhams while others are trying to play it straight, but after a few episodes everyone starts finding some middle ground. You wind up with (mostly) serious characters in a crazy city, and while I wouldn't call it good enough to get off my "guilty pleasure" list, it works. Aside from Fish and Barbara, but it works for everyone else. So they've even improved on Montoya? From what I watched she was awful.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:52
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Watch the pilot of Gotham and go from there. I found the dialogue way too painful to watch another episode. If you think Arrow has on the nose dialogue, Gotham will disabuse you of that notion.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:05
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Bruceski posted:Also, Penguin and Zsaz alone make it worth watching. Those actors are stealing every scene they're in. BTW, the same guy who plays Zsaz in Gotham was also villain of the week #3 in The Flash. Glad to know he's killing it (  ) as a villain in Gotham too.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:07
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XboxPants posted:Don't get too upset about this, it isn't actually a thing. This is completely just an assumption on the part of fans. There was a so-called "bat embargo" in place against having Batman stuff on TV a decade ago, but clearly that's no longer the case. I'm sure if Guggenheim wanted Batman to show up on Arrow it would be very tricky for him, and his request might be turned down in the end, but there's no reason to believe he's not even allowed to make that request. He just doesn't even want Batman to show up. http://io9.com/confirmed-batman-and-superman-are-off-limits-for-arrow-1662696484 No, they have flat out said that somethings are so off limits that there is no point in asking. I think DC gave them a freer hand with what they could use starting in the second season, but for the most valuable IP's (and stuff that is being developed elsewhere) they are off limits. I've seen in other interviews that they said they meet with DC representatives about 4-5 times a year and go over what characters they want to use and DC permits, denies, offers guild lines, ect. Hell, I've even heard of cases where Warner Brothers overrides DC's decisions on what they are doing with characters in the comics themselves. Obviously, some things are surprises, such as getting to use Ra's, but I imagine that outside of batman/superman themselves being completely off limits, it can be hard to guess what will or will not be allowed.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:10
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For example Blue Beetle
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Feb 23, 2015 20:18
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:So they've even improved on Montoya? From what I watched she was awful. Montoya doesn't appear anymore, and the show has improved for it.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:35
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I'm not sure Arrow would really benefit from hints about Batman anyway. As soon as you do that, everyone will be WHERE IS BATMAN THEN and with Oliver basically being Batman with the numbers filed off it probably just ends up overshadowing/undercutting the character the show is ostensibly about. It's fine if the Arrow is this continuity's crazily-trained, gadget using, specialist in cheating, but still just a human vigilante. With all the posts looking back at earlier parts of the show and the little flashback we just got I think I wish they hadn't wiped out so much of the supporting cast. I mean I kind of get why they did - character death is a fairly can't miss way to raise the stakes - but now basically everyone Ollie relates to is part of the vigilante project. It was cool to also have him relating to Walter and Tommy and Moira and the lady cop whose name I forget from time to time. I know Oliver is all in on the 'I can't have both worlds' gloom at the moment but I feel like the show is a little flatter for it.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:43
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The more I think about the last episode, the more I dislike it. There was a little part of me that hoped they would finally redeem Slade, at least somewhat. They hosed up the end of an otherwise fantastic season by having him still insist on his nonsensical vengeance even when he was cured of the Mirakuru madness. They could have fixed it here and said the Mirakuru crazy was still there and slowly faded or something. It wouldn't have made for much conflict, but how cool would it have been if he willingly helped train Thea and Ollie? Or hell, give him a crazy deathwish over the guilt of what he did - and the only way to get Ollie to kill him is in self-defense? Even though the writers are clearly nostalgiac for Barrowman (he IS good) and season 1 - Slade was easily Ollie's greatest and most personal villain and will probably retain that crown. It sucks that his motivation and character comes down to something so stupid and pointless - and that Ollie still doesn't point that out. And then in this episode, he gets beaten up by Thea?! Also, how was he actually released? Who actually killed the ARGUS agent and how? Did Barrowman hack his cell open? Why didn't they explore how Slade's fighting style has changed after losing the Mirakuru and/or being locked up? Will someone loving kill Barrowman already?! Then there's the flashbacks that were entirely pointless, told us nothing new about the characters and only cast a weird shade over the events of the first season. What was the convenient video from the father even supposed to be? It was nice but entirely meaningless to see Diggle's brother. It would have been a funny Felicity scene there, but they're catering SO HARD to shippers now that it had to be a cheesy romantic moment with her already pining for Ollie and him warmly smiling at her. (Never mind that he looked like a goddamn serial killer in that photo. Is it just the lack of the beard, or was it the glare?) And how has no one said anything about how hosed up it was that Ollie straight up murdered a guy over drug dealing? What the holy gently caress? And then the show tells you that's totally cool by having Detective Roger Cross (okay, it was nice to see him alive in something again) say it's a good thing that people get murdered for selling drugs. Because the only thing worse than homocide is vice, right? Pros:
Windows 98 posted:I used to think Amell's acting was dead and uninspired. That he was almost emotionless. And I still think that, but only the first few episodes. The first episodes of this show were already rocky to begin with but his acting didn't help. It felt like some one told him "You're a cold unflinching killing machine hellbent on revenge." Obviously that's not even close to the case in the current episodes. Maybe it was just everyone (including the writers) still trying to hit their groove, but even going back now and watching them is painful. Which really sucks when you're trying to get some one else interested in watching this show. They don't see the appeal till almost 9 hours of the show. Which is a lot to sit through with the only encouragement to keep watching is me sitting over there shoulder saying "I promise this gets SO good!"  WarLocke posted:Uh, yeah man, Ollie's whole arc is that by the time he got back to Starling City he was pretty much a broken shell of a man and had to learn how to 'live'/be a 'real person' all over again. VagueRant fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 00:57
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Ollie threatened the dude to stop selling to his sister, he only killed him when the guy pulled a knife on him.
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Feb 24, 2015 01:17
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So Ollie threatened him, he threatened back, and Ollie broke his neck? ...That doesn't seem fair.
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Feb 24, 2015 01:21
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VagueRant posted:So Ollie threatened him, he threatened back, and Ollie broke his neck? ...That doesn't seem fair. He also recognised Ollie, and had he let that go Waller had threatened the rest of his family (and friends? I can't remember). He pretty much had to kill him he was set up to be an utter poo poo so you wouldn't care. He was dealing drugs to Thea over Ollie's grave.
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Feb 24, 2015 01:27
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I think Slade needs to change his villain name to The Spoiler. He just waits in the bushes until Ollie has to deal with revealing a secret, then pops out and gloats.
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Feb 24, 2015 01:30
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VagueRant posted:What throws me is how Ollie was sleeping on the floor under open windows in the pilot and freaking out at the idea of a normal life in a bed or whatever and it seemed like that was because he'd been in the wild for like five years. But in the Hong Kong flashbacks he's clearly living quite normally and having no such problems. Uhhh? There are definitely a lot of inconsistencies between how people acted/what they thought in Season 1 and how things are now. It was sort of strange how Ollie was having nightmares about all the stuff that happened to him immediately when he got to the island despite the fact that so much more horrible poo poo happened to him since. Hopefully it'll be a little more satisfying when we get all the way back around.
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Feb 24, 2015 01:30
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VagueRant posted:So Ollie threatened him, he threatened back, and Ollie broke his neck? ...That doesn't seem fair. Well, right. Ollie used to be something of a serial murdering monster.
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Feb 24, 2015 01:45
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VagueRant posted:So Ollie threatened him, he threatened back, and Ollie broke his neck? ...That doesn't seem fair. NOBODY CAN KNOW HIS SECRET!
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Feb 24, 2015 02:04
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Well at least present it as a morally questionable act then. Have Ollie show remorse, instead of having a detective go "this murder was totally a good thing, audience."
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Feb 24, 2015 02:07
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VagueRant posted:Well at least present it as a morally questionable act then. Have Ollie show remorse, instead of having a detective go "this murder was totally a good thing, audience." But Ollie wouldn't show remorse back then, that's entirely what I'm saying. Yeah whatever the detective said was probably hosed up though. (but wasn't that guy an rear end in a top hat?) It was pretty much lazy storytelling, I imagine they want to have their cake and eat it too - they want to show Ollie as he was pre-Arrow, as a cold-blooded killer, but oh no, we better not make him unsympathetic, we'd confuse our poor dumb CW audience. So they end up making him killing random people and then trying to act like it was totally coooooool, hey don't woooooorrrrrrry about it.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:22
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I just want them to hurry up and get to explaining the Bratva stuff and have KGBeast be an actual thing
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Feb 24, 2015 08:20
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VagueRant posted:Well at least present it as a morally questionable act then. Have Ollie show remorse, instead of having a detective go "this murder was totally a good thing, audience." Nearly everything Ollie's done in the season 3 flashbacks is a morally questionable thing and contrasted against his better (if unsteady) intentions in the present. In this episode specifically it was past Oliver murdering a dude for basically an inconvenience on his road to becoming a remorseless killing machine vigilante, against present Oliver begging his sister not to kill a guy who really had it coming as he's trying to become an agent of justice and hope for his city.
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Feb 24, 2015 08:37
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Yeah, I don't see the thematic problem. Ollie has killed a lot of people for a lot of questionable reasons. That's been addressed and is one of his driving motivations at this stage. This happens at the peak of his cloak and dagger stage where he's being blackmailed and trained to be a government assasin. So a scumbag who sells drugs to his sister pulls a knife on him and recognizes him, running the risk of getting him and his family killed. Ollie probably would kill that guy. And the modern story it was running parallel to was all about ollie trying to prevent Thea from being a true killer and deal with the fact that she killed someone all while he's trying to get his killing instinct back but also doesn't want to kill Slade. That episode was filled with all kind of moral ambiguity when it comes to murder. Kind of the underlying theme of the show is a moral debate on killing. So if you think this one might have been a little casual it's obviously not a bigger thing. The show didn't decide after a couple of seasons of moral debate to just say "nah, capital punishment for petty criminals is cool." At worst they rushed past something by mistake, or they were trying to illustrate one of the first kills in Ollie's dark casual murdering phase. As for inconsistencies like him sleeping on the floor in the pilot I think at some point you just have to give the show leeway for not having everything 100% worked out right away.
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Feb 24, 2015 09:48
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We're certainly headed for a big change in the flashbacks - I don't think Oliver will be a hostage much longer. At some point (and we're over halfway through his flashback journey) he HAS to choose to be trained to become the sort of vigilante who can hunt down the men and women on The List.
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Feb 24, 2015 10:40
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Is arrow on a month gap like flash is?
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Feb 24, 2015 19:32
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Yes, but there's an episode tomorrow first.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:33
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Amell went on Late Night last night. http://www.nbc.com/late-night-with-seth-meyers/video/arrows-stephen-amells-terrible-golden-globes-experience/2849104?onid=147636#vc147636=1
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Feb 24, 2015 19:36
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His normal speaking voice is weirdly high pitched. I guess I'm just used to him growling all the time. Or maybe he was nervous.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:42
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Nah that's what he usually sounds like in his Facebook posts. Amell's real life demeanor is pretty much the opposite of Oliver's.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:45
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Aphrodite posted:Yes, but there's an episode tomorrow first. Speaking of which, why are they on a break again?
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Feb 24, 2015 19:49
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So the end of the season ends up in sweeps.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:50
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The CW always starts and ends their show seasons later than most other network programming.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:57
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Plus February sweeps is over after week.
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Feb 24, 2015 22:51
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Wow, that's weird. I always assumed his high pitched voice was something he put on for the "Oliver" character to set him apart from "The Arrow." In those early seasons whenever he spoke to his family or Lance or Tommy or whoever he had that high pitch that made him sound like a little boy and it just seemed deliberate to me to project Ollie's supposed innocence and naivety. I had no idea it was just his real voice.
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Feb 25, 2015 00:08
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Ollie murdering that drug dealer was the funniest thing 
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Feb 25, 2015 02:36
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My favorite part is after he snaps the guy's neck he throws him over the balcony, into a crowded party.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:02
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wereboat posted:My favorite part is after he snaps the guy's neck he throws him over the balcony, into a crowded party. He should've made a quip when he did it. "Just say no!"
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Feb 25, 2015 03:15
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