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Diplomat - alternate endings based on how you did and challenges would be cool.
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Feb 24, 2015 16:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's not the kind of loss condition I'm thinking of really. More like, say, every four weeks the monsters all get another hit point. Just some kind of incremental clock so that you have to stop farting around at some point and move the quest lines forward. I was suggesting before what you could do so its like you're being pushed forward (kinda like FTL's increasing difficulty) but without a hard-fail, is you could gradually increase the lowest level of quests on offer, but also increase the level of new heroes at the stagecoach to match. Or if you wanted it to have a hard-fail, then you could require upgrades at the stagecoach to give higher and higher level heroes, and if you fall behind then you're screwed. Or even worse just don't have that. Personally though I like the game how it is. Losing a team is painful enough, I like progress overall being permanent. The game just needs more quests and dungeons.
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Feb 24, 2015 17:37
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Talking about adding a fail state before we see the Darkest Dungeon sounds silly to me. For all we know the Darkest Dungeon will be so difficult that it's essentially impossible to beat, requires level 6 characters to even enter, and is longer than all the other dungeons combined. So take all the time you need to get into it, you will still never beat it. 
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Feb 24, 2015 17:40
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Augh that moment when you hire up a second Vestal (finally!) drop some spare cash on a couple key skills for her... ...and then forget to equip them before you send that group into the Weald. gently caress. At least the person who bit it on that run was basically my worst, most disease-ridden Bounty Hunter and I was not sad to see him go.
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Feb 24, 2015 17:45
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Dzurlord posted:Augh that moment when you hire up a second Vestal (finally!) drop some spare cash on a couple key skills for her... You can still equip skills in dungeon as long as you aren't in-combat. Just click on 'em.
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Feb 24, 2015 17:48
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:You can still equip skills in dungeon as long as you aren't in-combat. Just click on 'em. Holy crap, I am a dumbfuck. I have like 15 level 6 characters and never realized that. Re-skilling for bosses would've been so convenient so many times.
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Feb 24, 2015 18:15
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Wow I had no idea you could re-skill while on a mission, that's crazy.
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Feb 24, 2015 18:24
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Baronjutter posted:Wow I had no idea you could re-skill while on a mission, that's crazy. Also you can reorder your skill buttons by unchecking all skills and then re-checking them in the order you want them to appear on the bar. #dungeonhacks
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Feb 24, 2015 18:32
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:You can still equip skills in dungeon as long as you aren't in-combat. Just click on 'em. Holy poo poo it's a Christmas miracle.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:26
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I don't understand why people are so crabby about some of us wanting an optional fail state mode. I like this kind of game to have an imperative and the chance to start over from absolute zero.  I put about ten hours into it and stopped because, until it's completed, there's no reason for me to play the same content over and over with no possibility of game over.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:37
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gigawhite posted:I don't understand why people are so crabby about some of us wanting an optional fail state mode. I like this kind of game to have an imperative and the chance to start over from absolute zero. Uh I don't think anyone in this thread would have an issue with that if it was optional.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:44
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People aren't crabby about you wanting an optional fail state. People are crabby because about 90% of the time it is presented as "the game needs a fail state as standard", which isn't really a universally held opinion. What are people's thoughts on building upgrades? I find the reduced cost bits to be a bit boring and find they contribute to the issue of later game not having to really manage resources (like my main save I have something like 150k gold). It'd be pretty interesting to have something else instead, and maybe work in a branching upgrade path for buildings.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:45
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gigawhite posted:I don't understand why people are so crabby about some of us wanting an optional fail state mode. I like this kind of game to have an imperative and the chance to start over from absolute zero. No one who has suggested it has used the word optional, and/or no one opposes it if it is optional.
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Feb 24, 2015 19:45
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Dzurlord posted:Holy poo poo it's a Christmas miracle. It's that kind of high-power fancytip that makes my Guides so highly rated on Steam!
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Feb 24, 2015 19:48
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Am I the only one who is happy about getting to the point where I'm about finished upgrading buildings? I'm only 40 some weeks in, but am enjoying having the resources to manage my full roster while buying trinkets.
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Feb 24, 2015 20:06
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ZypherIM posted:What are people's thoughts on building upgrades? I find the reduced cost bits to be a bit boring and find they contribute to the issue of later game not having to really manage resources (like my main save I have something like 150k gold). It'd be pretty interesting to have something else instead, and maybe work in a branching upgrade path for buildings. I wish the cost of upgrades scaled up further, at its current rate it's pretty easy to max out the buildings if you are a decent Darkest Dungeon player, if the cost to upgrade say past the 2 spots per stress relief spot scaled up much higher than it might slow down players a bit. I also find it kind of odd that level 4 characters can have level 5 skills and gear. The only building I wish cost less to upgrade is the survival tent. I'm not sure how they'd add more/different upgrades though, the buildings are very straightforward. I've seen it posted on here and on the DD forums about town events being implemented at some point, and I have a feeling what will happen is buildings will get "destroyed" and be downgraded and will have to be upgraded again which will change things quite a bit. That might be all the town really needs. UI improvements would be nice, I hate the team roster scrolling thing, the trinket menu seeds a sorting function, and I wish I could see the town and the dungeon map at the same time so I could plan a bit easier. These are all very minor though and I expect some of them to change over time as we approach full release. My hope is that in the next week or two a major patch will hit that includes The Cove, a new class or two, and some Quality of Life improvements. Brutor Fartknocker posted:Am I the only one who is happy about getting to the point where I'm about finished upgrading buildings? I'm only 40 some weeks in, but am enjoying having the resources to manage my full roster while buying trinkets. I've only played one save file and it took me around 75 weeks to max everything out. I think even at 75 weeks that might have been too quick/easy. I love having maxed buildings though, now if all my guys just had Amateur Armor and Weapon making!
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Feb 24, 2015 20:10
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I'm about 40 weeks in and I'm nowhere near close to maxing out the buildings. I've also never had to retreat from a dungeon and have only lost maybe 2 characters. I haven't been minmaxing dark runs, though, so maybe that's why.
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Feb 24, 2015 20:14
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I've got a Hellion with 'Hatred of Mankind' and 'Hatred of Beasts' quirks, does that mean she really really hates pigmen?
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Feb 24, 2015 20:49
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:I've got a Hellion with 'Hatred of Mankind' and 'Hatred of Beasts' quirks, does that mean she really really hates pigmen? That's a hot quirk combo.
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Feb 24, 2015 20:51
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Best combo is Gambler/Bad Gambler.
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Feb 24, 2015 20:56
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Angry Diplomat posted:Dedicated gunslinger Highwaymen are nuts once you give them the right trinkets and get them infected with Rabies. In my game, I like to put Dismas in front once he has Clean Guns active, and he routinely obliterates fairly tough monsters with a first-turn Point-Blank Shot. If he crits he'll easily brutalize even size 2 miniboss monsters to the point that the other party members can usually mop them up before the end of the turn. I cannot, for the life of me get a Jester above level four without them getting murdered in some stupid fashion. 
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Feb 24, 2015 21:22
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People keep comparing this to Xcom when they talk about a failure state but the big difference between this and Xcom is that losing heroes actually matters here in the immediate short term. It takes a lot of time to get someone up to level 4-5, and losing them at that point is pretty dire. In Xcom you can let your guys die as much as you want after the first few months and it probably won't matter. Troops are easily replaceable in Xcom. Everyone in DD can be replaced eventually, but it takes time. Adding some kind of incremental difficulty would make it very easy to put yourself in a failure state after losing a good team as a result.
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Feb 24, 2015 22:33
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Angry Diplomat posted:Grave Robbers are really good all around, but for some reason they always seem to die for me. I'm probably not using them right. Uh huh. In all the chat about how to make them combat monsters, the thread seems to skip over the fact that they're still a support class, whose bread and butter is scouting and disarming traps. Start them in the back row for a lunge, then get them back w/ either vanishing or moving someone ahead of them, and then don't have them lunge again until the fight's almost over. Keep them away from the front row where they're gonna take big hits. Other options for keeping them alive include stacking them w/ dodge trinkets (you still want to get the vanishing strike buff asap, in my experience), running w/ the Occultist and pulling her back after she takes big hits till you can get her back to full (the Vestal's single target healing is too slow, for me), or building the party around some crazy setup where everyone jumps in front.
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Feb 24, 2015 22:36
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Vestal/Jester/Robber/Highwayman Try it out, it is seriously no joke.
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Feb 24, 2015 23:44
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Internet Kraken posted:In Xcom you can let your guys die as much as you want after the first few months and it probably won't matter. Troops are easily replaceable in Xcom. Everyone in DD can be replaced eventually, but it takes time. Adding some kind of incremental difficulty would make it very easy to put yourself in a failure state after losing a good team as a result. Clearly you haven't been forced to take rookies up against muton berserkers / elites.
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Feb 24, 2015 23:48
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Time_pants posted:Seriously. I don't understand why people want a failure state so badly. Just looking through my LP, I have something like 20 hours of gameplay, plus maybe another hour of off-camera maintenance, and I'm still maybe 3-5 hours away from taking down the level 5 dungeon bosses. The Cove adds at least, what, 5 more hours of play? Then who knows how many more the Darkest Dungeon would require. Do you really want to lose 20+ hours of work that badly just to maintain the "purity" of the roguelike classification? Again, it completely goes against what the game feels like it's trying to be. "Horror! Insanity! Corrupted men and monsters! A perfectly safe town area where you can just chill, it's whatever really! Starvation! A singular strike!"
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Feb 24, 2015 23:54
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I don't understand that comparison. You can't grind easy missions forever to replace lost soldiers in XCOM. It was actually way more heart-wrenching to lose a captain because you didn't have a grindable way to groom a new one.
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Feb 24, 2015 23:56
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In XCOM while luck certainly has something to do with it, losing a dude is probably going to be something you could have reduced the risk of at least. DD it's mostly RNG.
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Feb 24, 2015 23:58
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Apple2o posted:Clearly you haven't been forced to take rookies up against muton berserkers / elites. Not talking about Xcom:EU. Still even in EU the game is designed in a way so that the situation you described should never happen if you play halfway competently. Unlike Darkest Dungeon, Xcom:EU has mechanics in place to make training new soldiers easier. You can buy upgrades that make them come at a higher level and also gain exp faster. Also, even the most basic rookie can still equip higher tier equipment and items to improve their survivability and combat effectiveness. Rookies in DD can't do poo poo until they get levels and improve their skills/gear. gigawhite posted:I don't understand that comparison. You can't grind easy missions forever to replace lost soldiers in XCOM. It was actually way more heart-wrenching to lose a captain because you didn't have a grindable way to groom a new one. People are talking about creating a situation in which you cannot grind up new guys though. EDIT: I'm not even sure why people think the infinite grinding poses a difficulty problem though. Right now, a hero effectively reaches their strength cap at level 5. Grinding past that point gives you basically nothing. If the endgame dungeons are intended for level 5 difficulty then things would be fine. Right now, the endgame is just too easy. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Feb 25, 2015 |
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Feb 25, 2015 00:12
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Anatharon posted:Again, it completely goes against what the game feels like it's trying to be. "Horror! Insanity! Corrupted men and monsters! A perfectly safe town area where you can just chill, it's whatever really! Starvation! A singular strike!" I don't think many people would play a game that could swallow their 20+ hour save. That is all.
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Feb 25, 2015 00:32
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gigawhite posted:I don't understand why people are so crabby about some of us wanting an optional fail state mode. I like this kind of game to have an imperative and the chance to start over from absolute zero. I'd be totally on board with an optional one existing, I just don't want it to be a mandatory part of the game so I can roll with my chill eldritch horror hunting crew's punches.
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Feb 25, 2015 00:45
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I wish you could send low level dudes out on their own while you do your own mission. If that group survives, great. Even better if they survive with a good return. Also added bonus of reading about how they died horribly. Or you have a mission to go kill your zombie team.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:01
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Anatharon posted:Again, it completely goes against what the game feels like it's trying to be. "Horror! Insanity! Corrupted men and monsters! A perfectly safe town area where you can just chill, it's whatever really! Starvation! A singular strike!" Just like Diablo. You can have a grimdark theme without a "we'll erase your hard drive and crucify your dog if you don't have 200 portraits by week 15" mechanic.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:11
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Count Mippipopolous posted:Best combo is Gambler/Bad Gambler. I got Quickdraw and Slowdraw on a Highwayman from one dive. The Little Kielbasa posted:Just like Diablo. You can have a grimdark theme without a "we'll erase your hard drive and crucify your dog if you don't have 200 portraits by week 15" mechanic. Diablo doesn't attempt to say the game is hard. Right now the biggest hurdle to winning is similar though, just boredom. I do not believe a failure state is needed either; you can talk about how XCOM had one, but let's be honest, less than 5% of anyone who ever played it ever saw the game over screens because losing your GI Joes/Jills was too disheartening to continue playing. The failure state in XCOM is completely irrelevant. However, I do feel like the levels themselves should be playing back at me better than they do. Ignore a dungeon for too long? gently caress you, fewer treasures until you clean it up a little. Put off attacking a boss? gently caress you, now you gotta clear it out again. Oh, you've been 20 weeks without losing anyone, huh? gently caress you, enemy parties are genning harder now. I also feel like Deathblow resist is good at high levels but should be substantially lower at lower levels. Dudes who are fresh off the wagon should be rolling like 25-33% DB resist, tops. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Feb 25, 2015 |
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Feb 25, 2015 01:16
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There's something vaguely amusing about a Vestal that will only relieve stress in the brothel.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:25
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Time_pants posted:I don't think many people would play a game that could swallow their 20+ hour save. That is all. Like XCOM? 
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Feb 25, 2015 01:30
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Coolguye posted:I do not believe a failure state is needed either; you can talk about how XCOM had one, but let's be honest, less than 5% of anyone who ever played it ever saw the game over screens because losing your GI Joes/Jills was too disheartening to continue playing. The failure state in XCOM is completely irrelevant. I wouldn't call it completely irrelevant. At least in Classic and Impossible, it forces you to do missions based on panic management rather than just rewards. The cost of failing a mission in terms of panic is also very high, so you can't just bail on every mission that goes south in the first few turns. After you finish the Alien Base though it quickly trails off into irrelevance. People say you can't grind forever in Xcom:EU but there really isn't anything stopping you from raiding barges and battle ships for as long as you want. There's just little point to doing so. Alteisen posted:There's something vaguely amusing about a Vestal that will only relieve stress in the brothel. My Vestals always seemed to develop a strong desire for flagellation 
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Feb 25, 2015 01:38
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Internet Kraken posted:I wouldn't call it completely irrelevant. At least in Classic and Impossible, it forces you to do missions based on panic management rather than just rewards. The cost of failing a mission in terms of panic is also very high, so you can't just bail on every mission that goes south in the first few turns. After you finish the Alien Base though it quickly trails off into irrelevance. People say you can't grind forever in Xcom:EU but there really isn't anything stopping you from raiding barges and battle ships for as long as you want. There's just little point to doing so. I always felt like that was one of the biggest flaws in the game.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:40
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Internet Kraken posted:My Vestals always seemed to develop a strong desire for flagellation I kind of wish it was still possibly to get combos like God Fearing (will only pray), and Witness (cannot pray). My first crusader started with god fearing, and after barely limping home alone after a failed dungeon run where he watched everyone else get horribly murdered came back with witness. It was pretty fantastically appropriate and kind of an interesting backstory for him.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:44
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Internet Kraken posted:I wouldn't call it completely irrelevant. At least in Classic and Impossible, it forces you to do missions based on panic management rather than just rewards. The cost of failing a mission in terms of panic is also very high, so you can't just bail on every mission that goes south in the first few turns. Still irrelevant. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Feb 25, 2015 |
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Feb 25, 2015 01:50
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