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Given the mention of Assault Marines, what would make Jump Infantry good again? 3d6 charge distance? More (better?) HoW? More attacks on their profile? Not having to forsake move distance to gain HoW and charge rerolls?
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Feb 25, 2015 00:44
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HiveCommander posted:Given the mention of Assault Marines, what would make Jump Infantry good again? 3d6 charge distance? More (better?) HoW? More attacks on their profile? Not having to forsake move distance to gain HoW and charge rerolls? Jink saves and/or the ability to assault from reserves (including Deep Strike) would be an interesting start.
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Feb 25, 2015 00:51
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Naramyth posted:Really? Because I think he's kind of a dink. Also he's been accused of cooked dice in two events I've attended with him. He's a good player but from the outside he has an attitude problem. That's been my experience. Though I have only played two games against him and never in a tournament setting. Most of the time I've hung out with him has been at other social gatherings.
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Feb 25, 2015 00:57
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HiveCommander posted:Given the mention of Assault Marines, what would make Jump Infantry good again? 3d6 charge distance? More (better?) HoW? More attacks on their profile? Not having to forsake move distance to gain HoW and charge rerolls? Let them use their jump packs in both the movement and assault phase. This makes Raven Guard kind of redundant so that chapter tactic would require some reworking, but whatever, who the gently caress plays RG? Give them Jink saves. Allow them to Turbo Boost in the shooting phase, foregoing shooting and assaulting that turn in exchange for a larger movement range. Let them assault Zooming Flyers and FMCs. Maybe with a dangerous terrain test to compensate. If nothing else, decrease their point cost.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:04
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While I agree that assault marines should get a buff, I think there's something to be said for paying 95 points for two flamers with jump packs.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:04
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Price point and equipment would be big ones. Most jump infantry are priced about the same as Bikes/Jetbikes are while having vastly inferior associated special rules and statlines. They also typically (although not always) suffer from a more limited equipment list compared to bikes, with Assault Marines being the prime example- they get Flamers and Plasma Pistols where bikes get Flamers, Plasmaguns, Meltaguns, Grav Guns, and the option for an Attack Bike. Part of the problem is also typically conception- Jump units are usually combat specialists of some stripe, whereas Bikes are usually generalists (and thus get better shooting, which is more useful in the game due to the way upgrade prices are and the game is structured.) If I were changing things I would give Jump units the ability to ignore terrain when charging natively (as it is almost NEVER advantageous to use the Jump move in the assault phase rather than shooting as it stands now) and look more carefully at the pricings on them in the various codices. There are good Jump Infantry units in the game, like Swooping Hawks, Scourges, and a handful of others, they're just generally overshadowed by the Bike units that are quite common these days. In most cases, it's not even that Bikes are undercosted (although you can make a definite argument for some of them), it's that their counterparts are simply overcosted. Being able to assault flyers would be very cool and fluffy, though. gently caress flyers.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:06
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AbusePuppy posted:Back from LVO. Were you one of the people that came up and said hello to me?! If so you didn't say "I'm Abusepuppy from the SA Forums"... A lot of people came to me to express their condolences for shutting down the show.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:12
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BULBASAUR posted:LVO had a 30k event: People seemed to really have a good time during that event. I wish I could have played. I am in next year though.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:14
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Ghost Hand you need to tell Geoff to come to the Nova Open - you can play with 30k armies in the Narrative, and slots are almost gone. Also, him going would give you a nice excuse to come visit...
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Feb 25, 2015 01:20
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Ghost Hand you need to tell Geoff to come to the Nova Open - you can play with 30k armies in the Narrative, and slots are almost gone. I'll ask him right now. (Edit) just spoke to him... "It's a maybe at this point, but I'm interested." Ghost Hand fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 25, 2015 |
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Feb 25, 2015 01:22
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I don't think there's a blanket change you can give Jump units. Personally playing Marines and Dark Eldar, I keep having real issues coming up with solutions that would fix both Assault Marines and Hellions while not giving unwarranted boosts to the few jump units already worth taking. Hellions for example I think should have move through cover, something that would be an awkward fit for Assault Marines. I also specifically want to stay away from anything related to "assault on the turn you arrive", as not being able to assault without giving your opponent at least one turn to react is one of the few things I don't think is hilariously stupid about this game.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:47
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Maybe I'm biased because stormboyz are extremely inflexible and fragile but I think jump troops need to be a whole lot better at doing what they do. Assaulting from reserves/deep strike, for instance, or assaulting flyers, or having a better hammer of wrath. And also get rid of that dangerous terrain in ruins bullshit. They are fragile enough as it is. I can't understand how a nine point jump guy can disappoint me, but all 20 of them do every single time I get them out.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:48
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Just let them make vector strikes like they were a swooping monstrous creature.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:54
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Ghost Hand posted:Were you one of the people that came up and said hello to me?! If so you didn't say "I'm Abusepuppy from the SA Forums"... I did see you there and I said hi in passing, but I didn't get a chance to talk much (there were a lot of folks around) and I didn't explicitly identify myself, no. But yeah, I think a lot of folks will miss you on the show. You had a really good run, and were easily the best 40K podcast around. Ignite Memories posted:I can't understand how a nine point jump guy can disappoint me, but all 20 of them do every single time I get them out. Stormboyz are cheap and really fast, but taking DT tests on every model in a unit when you have a 6+ armor save is just asking for trouble, especially given the Ork woes with morale checks.
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Feb 25, 2015 01:54
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HiveCommander posted:Given the mention of Assault Marines, what would make Jump Infantry good again? 3d6 charge distance? More (better?) HoW? More attacks on their profile? Not having to forsake move distance to gain HoW and charge rerolls? Coming in turn 1 and assaulting from reserves, in my opinion, would be plenty to make them super viable again. What else would I like to see though? Jink saves, thrust moves or being able to have a glide/swoop option would be nice and make them very lethal. I mean c'mon bikes and skimmers get jink, why wouldn't a small infantry model with a jump pack not have it?
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Feb 25, 2015 02:39
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I'm actually entirely ok with almost no units being able to assault after getting onto the table. Assault troops just aren't worth their price though. If they had 2 attacks base and cost about as much as a regular marine I'd probably find a way to use them. That way the 4-5 guys that finally make it into assault stand a chance to do something.
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Feb 25, 2015 02:56
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Eh. I still think assaulting out of Outflank/Reserve should be a thing. Possibly with a mechanic to penalize the charge (1d6 vice 2)
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Feb 25, 2015 03:00
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BULBASAUR posted:Thanks mang. Nice to see the Sicaran getting some love at tournaments. It's a cool as hell tank and model. Do you take it to counter wave Is this what you guys are talking about? Boon posted:Eh. No extra attack perhaps? Lower initiative? It would have to be play-tested extensively, at least when a deep-striking shooty unit shows up you have the option of rage murdering it with return fire. Melee units would have the added bonus of being immune to return fire if they don't totally annihilate whatever they immediately assaulted into. TheArmorOfContempt fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Feb 25, 2015 |
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Feb 25, 2015 03:00
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Jink is kind of an odd thing to give them, even though orks would probably love it. I think letting them use the jump packs in both phases would be a good start.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:02
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Boon posted:Eh. I think making it a disordered charge, or having to chose between shooting and assaulting would also be good options.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:02
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So I just learned my partner for my Friday games is going to be a Blood Angels player (they're removing ally restrictions for it). What decent-to-good list could one of you come up with for 1000pts of BA? He and I were discussing a Land Raider with an assault option and Drop Pods. I want to steer him clear of taking Flyers, since that'll allow the other side's 2000pts to focus fire on me for a full turn.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:07
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When it comes to Forgeworld models, is there a list of stuff that is 30K only, is anything that exists in 30K assumed to be around in some form or another in 40k?
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Feb 25, 2015 03:15
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Uroboros posted:Is this what you guys are talking about? That's a sicaran variant designed to shut down super heavies. You want this one:  http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/LEGION_SICARAN_BATTLE_TANK.html Uroboros posted:When it comes to Forgeworld models, is there a list of stuff that is 30K only, is anything that exists in 30K assumed to be around in some form or another in 40k? There's some 30k only tech, like volkites and gravatron weapons. I imagiane it will trickle into 40k over time. If you want to run it in 40k you either have to take a 30k army or take it as a 'relic' from one of the last couple IA books.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:18
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Boon posted:Eh. I don't even think there needs to be a penalty.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:20
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BULBASAUR posted:That's a sicaran variant designed to shut down super heavies. You want this one: Where is the rules for that one? I only see the venerator on a google search.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:33
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PeterWeller posted:I don't even think there needs to be a penalty. Totally, the penalty is the risk that you might not see your unit till really late in the game. the enemy knows you have units in reserve or outflanking. They should have enough time and sense to prepare their defences. It makes so little sense for a unit to use ambush tactics but have to wait around with their dicks in their hands before they actually ambush.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:48
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Cataphract posted:Totally, the penalty is the risk that you might not see your unit till really late in the game. Yeah, exactly. I know you have those genestealers in outflank reserve. It's my own dumb fault if they come in and charge something valuable of mine instead of some cheap screening unit.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:51
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Maybe allow deep strikers to assault the turn they come into play but also give more units that necron sniper rule that allows them to fire at deep strikers within 12" ?
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Feb 25, 2015 03:54
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Are we just talking about reserves that arrive from table edges here, because the idea that any reserve can assault immediately on arrival would be super broken, especially with turn 1 reserves special rules like Drop Pod Assault.
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Feb 25, 2015 03:57
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Assault Marines used to be 25 points a pop and well worth it way back in 3rd Edition when assault was everything, aren't they down to about 18 points? 5 points seems like a cheap upgrade, what I see is that people are often too aggressive with them meaning they are isolated and surrounded, making them an easy kill. They absolutely should be able to attack flying stuff, maybe have them hit on a 6. Then again, wouldn't that just make flying monstrous creatures even more dominant, since they'd inherit the ability?  
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Feb 25, 2015 03:59
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What if jump infantry always charged 12 inches?Cataphract posted:Totally, the penalty is the risk that you might not see your unit till really late in the game. I'd agree if the reserves roll was still a 5+ turn 2, 4+ turn 3 etc. These days you're basically guaranteed the'll drop down turn 2 or 3 so its not that big a gamble. Some armies can even roll on turn 1. That doesn't seem like it would be balanced. I like that you can't assault after deepstriking because it gives purpose to units like assault rams, storm eagles, or dreadclaws. Same goes for mid field interdiction units. That niche didn't really exist until 6th and 7th. GW should find a way to buff these units without making niche ones pointless again. Uroboros posted:Where is the rules for that one? I only see the venerator on a google search. Little red 30k book, HH Book 2, IA2 2.0, and IA13. 135 points, AV 13 12 12, 3HP BS4 Fast Tank Extra armour Heavy bolter in the front, you can give it lascanon or heavy bolter sponsons Accelerator autocanoon on top is S7 AP4 rending twin linked and ignores jink saves BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Feb 25, 2015 |
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Feb 25, 2015 04:07
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AbusePuppy posted:Stormboyz are cheap and really fast, but taking DT tests on every model in a unit when you have a 6+ armor save is just asking for trouble, especially given the Ork woes with morale checks. It makes sense why no one else ever really complains about the DT tests, considering the vast majority of jump troops are 3+. But it's really loving painful for stormboyz. Moving into and out of ruins loses you about 50+ points of dudes, more if the Nob goes down. Not to mention the possibility of losing that powerklaw. There is no good reason for that dangerous terrain test to be there.
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Feb 25, 2015 04:14
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Uroboros posted:Are we just talking about reserves that arrive from table edges here, because the idea that any reserve can assault immediately on arrival would be super broken, especially with turn 1 reserves special rules like Drop Pod Assault. It was completely not broken for 5 editions until GW decided to make something that wasn't broken just disappear almost completely eliminating a part of the game. Want to know something that is SUPER BROKEN though? Wave Snakes. Stanyer89 fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Feb 25, 2015 |
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Feb 25, 2015 04:27
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Imperial Knights look obscene. Can you really field them by themselves? If so how much would a 1500 Imperial Knight army cost?
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Feb 25, 2015 04:29
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SalTheBard posted:Imperial Knights look obscene. Can you really field them by themselves? If so how much would a 1500 Imperial Knight army cost? You can run four knight paladins at exactly 1,500. This is completely legal and doable. It's not actually that good if your opponent has a lot of anti-vehicle, or a lot of fliers.
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Feb 25, 2015 04:34
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SalTheBard posted:Imperial Knights look obscene. Can you really field them by themselves? If so how much would a 1500 Imperial Knight army cost? ^^^^ What he said... Yes you can - but they are way more interesting in 30k to be honest. I think you can fit maybe 4 in a 1500 list - would need to check though.
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Feb 25, 2015 04:35
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Master Twig posted:You can run four knight paladins at exactly 1,500. This is completely legal and doable. Ghost Hand posted:^^^^ Appreciate the response!
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Feb 25, 2015 04:39
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At 1500 points you can have 4 Knights, but you'll probably most likely see three in an Adamantium Lance formation and about 400 points of Eldar allies.
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Feb 25, 2015 04:40
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SalTheBard posted:Imperial Knights look obscene. Can you really field them by themselves? If so how much would a 1500 Imperial Knight army cost? Yes for three of them plus the codex it will cost you 500 USD for 1110 to 1125 pts worth of Imperial Knight for the Ad. Lance formation. I am an unfortunate soul who has this formation collecting dust on my shelf because the group I play with has a nuclear arms race going on of who can buy the best/most Super Heavies and I refuse to fuel it anymore. But to answer your question, straight from GW it will cost you 650 USD for 1500 pts of Imperial Knight Paladins w/ Codex. Edit: drat I am a slow typer, question was already answered four times before I could click reply haha.
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Feb 25, 2015 04:41
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Ghost Hand posted:Yes you can - but they are way more interesting in 30k to be honest. Plus the 30k list gives them a way to actually deal with Flyers.
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Feb 25, 2015 04:49
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