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Grout's skills, abilities and personality seem to be mainly what you want them to be. If you think he was good enough to survive, then he did. There doesn't seem to be anything conclusively pointing either way. The only real measure we have of his personality is in the audio logs. What if he made those specifically so that whoever came to investigate would draw their own conclusions about him being a harmless, crazy old Malk? That's the best part about Grout, is that any information you have about him could have been manipulated by him, and given that he's a fairly powerful Malkavian with a strong case of paranoia there's precious little argument with that line of thought. Also because it is a computer game that occasionally asks you to draw your own conclusions.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:20
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Tiggum posted:I wouldn't have thought the WoD would have such a thing. The computer technology seems too backward for that. All text-based interfaces in 2004? Could be some kind of advanced MUD.
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Feb 22, 2015 05:37
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Prop Wash posted:Grout's skills, abilities and personality seem to be mainly what you want them to be. If you think he was good enough to survive, then he did. There doesn't seem to be anything conclusively pointing either way. ...you mean aside from the stake and skeleton and ashes? The fact that he's not explicitly heard from again makes it pretty definitive. If there were more for him to do in the story, he'd have resurfaced if he survived. He didn't resurface, so they didn't need him, so he didn't survive. Pretty sure they weren't planning on making a sequel to bring him back.
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Feb 22, 2015 05:41
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BenRGamer posted:...you mean aside from the stake and skeleton and ashes? Yeah, how hard would it be to stake and bake a fresh neonate to help fake your death? I don't think kindred are too interested in running dental records to check identities. If Grout, an elder, Malkavian or not, wanted to assume a new identity, it wouldn't be that hard to procure a vampire corpse to do so.
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Feb 22, 2015 05:50
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Vicissitude posted:Yeah, how hard would it be to stake and bake a fresh neonate to help fake your death? I don't think kindred are too interested in running dental records to check identities. If Grout, an elder, Malkavian or not, wanted to assume a new identity, it wouldn't be that hard to procure a vampire corpse to do so. Well, I was talking more in Doylist terms than Watsonian, to borrow a phrase from TV Tropes. The writers didn't see a need to bring him back, otherwise he would have shown up before the end credits, and since they put out a skeleton for the players to find, the answer I'd go with he's dead. Also fits under Occam's Razor, too. What requires less leaps in logic, that Grout sired another Vamp and that LaCroix and his goons, who caught you and your sire literally moments after you woke up, didn't catch him? And don't you have to be a certain age before immediately going to ash/skeleton bit on death? So I think the simpler solution is... Grout's dead.
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Feb 22, 2015 06:02
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There is no evidence he was an elder. He was selected for the role of primogen because he was more lucid and eloquent than others of his clan. In fact, age-wise he ranks as Ancillae. The post of Primogen has no generation requirement and given an estimate for his siring of about 80-160 years before the events of the game, it is pretty likely that he's somewhere in the region of 10th to 13th generation, especially given the story he relates of the death of his sire. Also, IIRC, despite how the game portrays a vampires death, the amount of decay is dependant on the age of the vampire being destroyed (I may be wrong on this. I can't find it in the few books I have on hand).
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Feb 22, 2015 06:09
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Pickled Tink posted:(I may be wrong on this. I can't find it in the few books I have on hand). I'll save you some time: It's inconsistently portrayed.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:00
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Stroth posted:I'll save you some time: It's inconsistently portrayed. oWoD in a nutshell.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:06
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Strauss wrote the emails. He and maybe Cain are the only ones with the character for it. And Strauss loves that your existence drives Lacroix nuts - he thinks Lacroix is a douche. He wants to see you alive and successful to discredit and unbalance Lacroix, but he can't give you too much visible help without Lacroix finding out. That would jeopardize Strauss' standing with the Camarilla, but Lacroix's monomania is jeopardizing the Camarilla in LA itself, so Strauss must work quietly and with unknowing catspaws to oust Lacroix. That is super shysty but is also what is best for the Camarilla. This "mysterious benefactor" angle also gives him an in to you - Lacroix is clearly eating himself alive and you are the hot new thing. And so he gains by your success in that way, too. Sounds like the moves one would make in a game of tactical strategy, doesn't it? Strauss has a ton of reasons to be surreptitiously involved with the PC. Cain is just tooling around in a beater like a hippy, going "Vampires, man. Vampires." You aren't useful to him. He doesn't care. Strauss wrote the emails.
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Feb 22, 2015 14:02
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Counterpoint: the helpful emails keep coming even if you betray Strauss by blabbing to Isaac about his secret.
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Feb 22, 2015 15:44
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I like how they thought to make Messerach noticeably shorter than the more modern characters. Shows some good attention to detail.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:06
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David Corbett posted:I like how they thought to make Messerach noticeably shorter than the more modern characters. Shows some good attention to detail. Considering he's a desiccated husk, that's not saying much 
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Feb 22, 2015 16:39
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Ephemeron posted:Counterpoint: the helpful emails keep coming even if you betray Strauss by blabbing to Isaac about his secret. That doesn't change your utility to Strauss in the slightest. Especially if it makes you believe it's not him.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:46
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David Corbett posted:I like how they thought to make Messerach noticeably shorter than the more modern characters. Shows some good attention to detail.  Height depends largely on how well fed your mother was. An upper-class person at any point in human history could easily be as tall as a modern human.
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Feb 22, 2015 22:53
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I'm not convinced of A Friend's identity one way or another, but Jack is clearly capable of some subtlety, having been the one to storm the Elizabeth Dane and set everything up (including the bomb) in the first place, even if the plan wasn't his. As a Malkavian you can say something that hints at Jack's plan, though I don't remember when. He says "Maaaaan, you guys give me the heebie-jeebies. Sounds like you know a lot more about something than you're supposed to. Lucky for you you probably don't understand what you're sayin'. [threatening] If you did, I'd be talking to a pile of ash right now. e: line1901_col_e.mp3 in Jack's voice directory; fixed quote Mordecai fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Feb 23, 2015 |
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Feb 23, 2015 04:53
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Mordecai posted:I'm not convinced of A Friend's identity one way or another, but Jack is clearly capable of some subtlety, having been the one to storm the Elizabeth Dane and set everything up (including the bomb) in the first place, even if the plan wasn't his. I don't know if I've ever seen that line. What dialog leads to it?
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Feb 23, 2015 05:40
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Does Strauss appear in the "trial" scene in the intro? since he presumibly isn't killed for a few days or weeks later and is an important local Camirilla leader.
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Feb 24, 2015 17:51
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Does Strauss appear in the "trial" scene in the intro? since he presumibly isn't killed for a few days or weeks later and is an important local Camirilla leader.
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Feb 24, 2015 18:43
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Does Strauss appear in the "trial" scene in the intro? since he presumibly isn't killed for a few days or weeks later and is an important local Camirilla leader. Strauss (the Tremere Primogen) doesn't get killed at all, so I presume you mean Grout (the Malkavian Primogen). And it's pretty hard to tell if he's been there or not, because I don't think we even know what he looked like. Aumanor fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 19:05
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Yes that is what i meant. Did they not bother to give him a 3d model as they knew he wasnt going to make it?
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Feb 24, 2015 22:30
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Looking back there's three non-specific models in the theater intro: Two females near V.V. and one male behind her (not sure on him) so no Grout didn't show up to this little meeting. Then again Nines was there so I'm thinking it was something more off-the-cuff than an official required meeting. Or he's been missing since the beginning of the game.
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Feb 24, 2015 22:47
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maswastaken posted:Yes. He's the one rejecting a blown kiss from VV. Is that what he is doing? I always assumed it was an acknowledging hand motion. You may be right though. I don't know why that surprises me as much as it does. This game, man. I've played through it so many times and still haven't really noticed everything.
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Feb 25, 2015 05:07
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Oh god, it just hit me while I was at work. The "I don't want to know, I don't want to know" lines with the Malkavian PC is a rare moment of lucidity as they get streamed info on the Cabbie and are just  at the results they're getting, isn't it?
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Feb 25, 2015 06:39
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The Malk PC is almost always lucid. It's not their fault that no-one else can hear all the people yelling advice at them.
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Feb 25, 2015 08:43
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wiegieman posted:The Malk PC is almost always lucid. It's not their fault that no-one else can hear all the people yelling advice at them. Yeah, you've always got at least one response that makes perfect sense if you strip out the metaphors and assume that the Malk can read minds and see the future. Usually all of them do.
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Feb 25, 2015 12:19
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TheMcD posted:
(Late, but) I think "Some with smiles" refers to Ming. She tells you how proud she is and how accepting she will be of you and how you're totally awesome and she'd NEVER betray you no sir! And then as soon as LaCroix is out of the way she betrays you. So I think that line was more straight forward (an enemy who will pretend to be a friend), especially considering Jack shows a bit of disappointment in the endings where Melissa dies.
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Feb 27, 2015 08:57
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 Right, so... Grout. Who is Grout? Well, according to some in the thread, Grout is everybody, and according to others, Grout is Melissa. But I digress. Grout is the Malkavian Primogen of LA, and that's about all we know about him before going through his mansion. He's never seen in-game, and the only thing we hear from him are those audiologs in his mansion. That seems about as good a place as any to start, so let's go through those again. Gatz already went over them, but since this is all about Grout and what happened to him, we might as well go over it again. But first, a word about the audiologs in general - some might think they were all recorded during a single session, and that's probably right. However, what they're talking about spans several decades, going from way back all the way up to the present time. My theory was that they were made for Melissa to hear, to plant a seed of doubt about LaCroix in her head. The earlier entries are to throw off the would-be assassins and the like (Ming-Xiao, for instance), who would hear one and just dismiss it as some old guy rambling, whereas somebody like Melissa, who has no idea where she's going, might as well listen to them while she's exploring the mansion, and would eventually get to the juicy details. Essentially, he recorded some old diary entries from over the years.  It is quite peculiar the happenings I've been made to witness from my supernatural longevity. I'm thinking of one unfortunate phenomenon in particular of unique interest to my station, both as a professional and as a sufferer of this Vampiric condition. It seems the stream of time has begun to erode the moorings of my chosen course of study, for the methodologies that gave birth to psychology are slowly disappearing. I find myself in an era that overlooks the physical component of psychological pathology, time and again in favour of the sophistic practices of Freud. Phrenology, Dactopindalism, and the rest of the old guard is fallen by the wayside, its champions all silenced in death with my unique exception. Would that I could make my voice heard again, although it may be suspicious should I return to popular medical discourse fifty years after my apparent death. No, better that I continue my studies into the psychosis in secret. One day I may hold up my own cure as validation of the methods. I am confident no cure for my condition, or that of my beloved wife, lies within our figurative minds, waiting to be unlocked by the correct combination of memories recovered from our childhoods. And I'm most certain that it has nothing to do with the relationship between myself, my parents, and my genitals. Sorry, Sigmund, but I choose to stay my course. In time, too, may your star fade and disappear.Right, so let's try and use this to date Grout a bit. From what we can tell, Grout was Embraced about fifty years before a given point in time, during which Freud's theories enjoyed large popularity and became the dominating idea in psychology. From a cursory glance at a timeline, this means the point in time we're talking about is placed somewhere from the 1890s to the 1930s, tending more towards the latter. This means that the date of Grout's Embrace falls somewhere around the 1840s to the 1890s, tending towards the latter. Assuming that Grout was tending more towards old than young (given his education, he probably has at least a doctorate, so he should be fairly old, relatively speaking), I would wager he was somewhere around 40 when he was Embraced, making him around 150~190 years old at this point. This is all very vague theorycrafting, but given the vague material we're given to work with, that's the best we've got. Furthermore, we get some backstory on what he's doing. He was looking for a cure for the vampiric condition (though he was not going to find one, given that the whole thing comes from God and all), and also looking for a cure for his wife's condition, which seems to be different from the vampiric one. Another unfortunate casualty to tide of time: Insane Asylums. I lament their loss not only as brokerage houses for the breadth and depth of human psychoses, but also I shall mourn the disappearance of that peculiar environment present only in an insane asylum. That palpable atmosphere of blistered brains and churning bowels, the odiferous melange of freely flowing bodily humours, that gently rolling cacophony of distant sobs and screams, the muttered cursing of perceived enemies and the blissful gurgling of the lobotomized. Like a new-born babe discovering the sky. I shall still find test subjects as surely as I find bloody sustenance in the night but this climate, I fear, may never be replicated.These are just some musings Grout had. Seems like he was a fan of insanity in a general way, and not just on a professional level (as in something he could study and learn from, being a man of science) - he seems to be taking a quite large amount of personal pleasure in it as well. This explains why he converted part of his house into an insane asylum - so he could have that back. Often I reflect with great regret on the missed opportunity that was my infector. Had I been conscious after the attack, I could have stopped the orderlies from locking her in the roaming pen. What I would give for just one interview, a few simple questions of the plague ridden woman who met her end that dawn. Of course there is no guarantee she would have been any more helpful than my current crop of test subjects - Mewling wretches! Few could be called 'enthusiastic' - Given the nature of the tests, I cannot expect the same fervor from all, but a modicum of cooperation would be appreciated - Animals. The one called 'John' went so far as to gnaw off his arm and escape into the floorboards like some feral rodent. I still hear him scurrying about at night, he must be making an atrocious mess in there.Grout, being a scientific man of the old school, loves him some test subjects to experiment on, and it seems the experiments aren't at all pleasant. One can presume the test subjects to be random insane people, plucked out from whatever holes insane people end up in. The question is if Grout Embraced his test subjects - after all, you can't really study the vampiric condition without a vampire, right? Then again, there's something that pops up later that gives a better answer. My studies proceed at a languid pace. I'm mired in a foul ennui as my wife's illness advances. My subjects grow restless without proper supervision, but I cannot pull myself back from this black depression. How many nights I've wasted now, gazing from the tower walk, pondering the frailty of existence.So his wife's illness is indeed different from the vampiric one - she just has one of those deadly illnesses there was no cure for at the time. After decades of solitary study into this affliction, I have learned that it is by no means mine alone. Indeed, this city is home to an entire society of similarly afflicted individuals with whom I've only recently made contact. They are an understandably standoffish sort, by and large, but I have been able to confirm with them that the condition is indeed vampirism, which apparently comes in a multitude of strains, each with a spectacular set of symptoms such as invisibility and even a sort of lycanthropy. Through numerous official interactions with the governing body of this secret society, I have concluded that their fundamental understanding of the vampiric condition is woefully lacking and mired in suspicion and pseudo-religious dogma that would make a Turk balk for its strictures. Indeed, they seemed impressed with my studies and the eloquence with which I was able to present them. Apparently the typical sufferer of my particular strain of vampirism is far from the vanguard of the King's English. So impressed were they that they even offered me an office in their government, a rather high office, by the sound of things. I believe I shall accept. If nothing else, it should provide a lofty vantage point from which to observe the breadth and epidemiology of the affliction so that I may move more expeditiously toward a cure.So here we find out that Grout pretty much thought he was the only one with vampirism, so he probably didn't Embrace his test subjects and instead just messed around with their brains and such. Y'know, Victorian science. He learns of the clans and disciplines and that stuff, and furthermore he turns out to be incredibly straight-forward for a Malkavian. This is one of those things I never quite got about Grout - I thought the Madness Network pervades all, and it's impossible to escape from its influence for a prolonged amount of time - you're going to hear voices at some point fairly soon after your Embrace. Now, I would say that this is because Grout is a Dominate Malkavian with an inward dementation relating to some sort of sociopathy, and the voices started around the time of The Great Prank, when Camarilla Malkavians regained Dementation proper, but I honestly don't loving know. All this poo poo goes way over my head. There's one source that says the Great Prank was when Malkavians lost Dominate and regained Dementation, then there's another that says the Great Prank was when they originally lost Dementation and gained Dominate. I just don't loving know. I have accepted the role of 'Primogen' for clan 'Malkavian', the dreadfully winsome label applied to the particular strain of vampirism I suffer. So named for some supposed vampire father figure of old. More poppycock grown from a backwood culture that seems interminably drawn to childrens' tales and the fiction of Victorian romance when it should concern itself with the science behind their suffering. No matter, for I have taken this office for no greater reason than the advancement of my research. I must make mention however that even among my would-be peers in this governing body of vampires, the level of paranoia and superstition is frightening! Their intelligence is not the question, no, indeed, as they courted me for this appointment, I had to suspect that their overtures were hand-tailored for what must be my obvious infatuation with reason, for the devil would do well to have such honey-tongued tempters. Even so, I could not help but notice the dressing of language these vampire leaders chose for their siren song. Whether it is born of habit, from addressing their unwashed, ill-educated subjects or from their own deep-seated beliefs, their linguistic flourishes belie a faith in superstition over the providence of empirical reason that must be an all-pervasive theme in this society of darkest night. drat it all now, I'm doing it, too!Anyway, due to actually knowing how to speak straight, Grout is immediately eligible to be Primogen and indeed does so. He then immediately starts speaking less straight. Progress! Sounds like he was a guy that would have gotten along great with Beckett. As I expand my dealings with the vampire government, I have encountered a disturbing new symptom of this affliction. Frequently, in conversation, I will hear voices emanating from other vampires. Voices that are not their own but which seem to have insight into their lives beyond what I could gather from simple conversation. These voices seem to echo from deep within my fellow vampires and I cannot be certain if this symptom belongs to my strain of illness or theirs, for the voices are various and inconsistent. I dare not mention this symptom to my vampiric peers, for they have proven themselves true predators to whom I could be loathe to reveal any sign of weakness. Indeed, these voices have counciled me against confessing their presence and until I can confirm their source, I will listen. The information the voices have given me ranges from curious to frightening. The latter is especially true of one powerful vampire whose name I shall not commit to recording in the interests of self preservation.Grout starts getting messages from the Madness Network and his dementation, particularly about LaCroix. He wisely enough keeps it to himself. The voices have increased in frequency and direction of late. They have begun to stay with me long after conversation has ceased and are serving as quite a distraction. I fear others are beginning to notice my preoccupation at the vampire gatherings. I am thinking again of the particular vampire of whom I spoke of previously, who I dare not name for my growing fear. If the voices are to be believed, then my caution is warranted, for they speak of his blackest crimes both past and future. More than once I have seen the suspicion in his eyes and heard the distrust in his voice when speaking with me! The fear must register on my face for it is all I can do in these moments to keep from crying out in chorus with the voices!The voices and paranoia become stronger, and it's starting to get to the point where it's noticeable, and particularly LaCroix doesn't trust him as far as he could kick him. Things are starting to get dangerous. I am no longer safe - I know it! The voices have proven themselves authentic, and I have withdrawn from the vampire society entirely. My absence will no doubt draw attention, but I could no longer hold my fragile composure around the ravenous eyes of my vampire peers, especially not around him! The voices compelled me to make what I fear is a Faustian bargain. But I had to, for their demands are constant and merciless. I have secluded myself within the mansion. I know he will strike out at me. He will go to any length to achieve his ambitions, and he knows that I know! I have taken precautions to protect my beloved wife. A cure will have to wait until our immediate safety is guaranteed. The mansion was constructed with security in mind, but at that time I was not privy to the full range of vampire capabilities! The voices echo in the twisted corridors of my psyche, dark whisperings of a macabre and formless menace, the approach of which portends an end, an end to all of this!Finally, Grout withdraws himself entirely because he knows LaCroix is on his rear end. He drops a few interesting tidbits here, particularly the "Faustian bargain" and "having taken steps to protect his wife". Your guess is as good as mine - personally, I interpreted the "Faustian bargain" as sacrificing the last remnant of his humanity, his wife, to the flames so that he could more effectively cover up his escape, but that directly contradicts the second part - which I figured was only there to throw you off, but then when you think about it, there's a bit of a problem with that and aaaargh. It's all a mess. I mean, let's think about what happened during the time before Grout was found dead. Here's the most basic rundown I can imagine, which shouldn't contradict anything: LaCroix wants Grout dead and Nines out of the picture. Ming-Xiao wants to cultivate relations with LaCroix so she can backstab him later. Bach wants to find Grout and kill him. Grout becomes a recluse, LaCroix finds out about it since he's got his eyes on Grout. LaCroix and Ming-Xiao meet up and hatch a plan to kill Grout and implicate Nines. Ming-Xiao heads out and at some point kills Grout, though it's not really clear when. Eventually, the Primogen show up and demand an investigation. LaCroix sends out Melissa and gives a signal to Ming-Xiao to show up disguised as Nines. Melissa shows up, sees Nines!Ming-Xiao, heads through the mansion, eventually finds Grout's dead skeleton and Bach setting fire to the place. She escapes. Grout's dead, Nines out of the picture, evidence burned down, everybody happy, no loose ends, hurray hurrah hurrah. But even then there's a few things I wonder about. How did ultra-paranoid Grout get killed even though he straight up knew somebody was coming for him? Was he caught off guard? Is it even possible for somebody that paranoid to be caught off guard? Furthermore, when was Grout killed? When he first made himself a recluse? Probably not, since he still had to set up the audio logs and poo poo. So was it after the Primogen of the city came to LaCroix? Was the time window enough for Ming-Xiao to show up, kill Grout, then get out in time for her to be seen by Melissa? What about the Faustian bargain? It had to have something to do with securing his safety, right? Or was that just delusional waffle on the part of somebody who's far gone at this point? The fact that there's so much mystery surrounding this story leads to a lot of vagueness and a lot of questions. For instance, here's my more complex theory on how Grout survived. quote:Prologue - before Grout's disappearance: But once again, that's a lot of assumptions. The thread turned out a lot more pragmatic in this regard: Pickled Tink posted:As for Grout, you are all reading way too much into it. The Malkavian clan curse ensures they always have a dementation. Should their existing one be cured, they immediately develop a new one. His original one was a relatively mild manifestation, believing that he was diseased and not a supernatural monster and manifested in his endless search for a cure. Meeting others changed that slowly. It then flipped to paranoia along with the malk insight. Until very recently, relatively speaking, Grout had not been in contact with the rest of vampire society and had no knowledge of them. There is also absolutely no evidence to suggest that Grout had any form of martial training. Traxus IV posted:This is kind of where I'm at on this whole Grout thing, too. I didn't think much of him when I played the game so I was kind of surprised to see the level of interest in him in the LP, he was just some dude who was dead by the time we got to him. LaCroix used him as a means to an end, we just got to see the aftermath of it (dude is dead, house is infested with crazies) instead of the setup or execution. OAquinas posted:Concur with the rest. Grout's dead. Out of all the fan theories, Grout-as-"Friend" was at least remotely plausible, but the fact that he's otherwise completely absent from the game (hints or otherwise) more or less points the finger at someone else...the friendly cabbie being the best bet there. I guess it really is just wishful thinking, and if it were somebody else LPing this that wasn't in love with the "Grout is the 'friend'" theory, there wouldn't have been a need to talk about this at length. Oh well. To close...  Hey, look. Stars, wolves and fire (red hair - kind of a stretch, but eh).  Hey, look. Stars, wolves and fire. Pretty sure this is deliberate. Next time, we'll check out the e-mail messages and reason out who wrote them. TheMcD fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 22:51
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I figured the Faustian bargain was leaking the location of his lair to the Society of Leopold, perhaps hoping that they wouldn't kill his wife. I also thought Grout's dementation was rationality in what is clearly, explicitly, a supernatural world.
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Feb 28, 2015 11:15
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He has voices in his head and thinks he can cure his wife of death. Those are the more explicit ways he's crazy. I see the irony in rationality being his insanity, but...yeah. The Faustian bargain is clearly him trusting the voices in his head. They say he's in danger and he decides they are right and can help him survive. Like, we could be talking about the ghost's motives for killing his family or what clan the werewolves are or other hooha if we wanna go balls-out making stuff up.
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Mar 1, 2015 11:10
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Does Grout ever rightout say he thinks Lacroix is the one with the dark plan? Because he doesen't have dark plan. Jack does.
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Mar 1, 2015 11:48
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I heard somewhere that the Malkavian curse isn't actually prescience or anything of the like, but (spoiling for safety) Malkav having turned himself into some kind of vampire psychic Internet, and what people assume are premonitions are just Malkavians tapping into the MadNet™.
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Mar 1, 2015 12:52
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Iretep posted:Does Grout ever rightout say he thinks Lacroix is the one with the dark plan? Because he doesen't have dark plan. Jack does. LaCroix has a dark plan as well: Get the sarcophagus, eat the vampire inside and use his newfound mega-power to become the top vampire in America. It's just that his plan is based on faulty assumptions.
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Mar 1, 2015 12:59
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UrbicaMortis posted:LaCroix has a dark plan as well: Get the sarcophagus, eat the vampire inside and use his newfound mega-power to become the top vampire in America. It's just that his plan is based on faulty assumptions. LaCroix wanted the sarcophagus after Jack murdered everyone inside the ship. Jack had been planning this for a while on the otherhand. If you're a malkavian Jack even threatens you if you hint that you know what hes doing in the tutorial. Even Lacroixes plan to assasinate Grout only happens after he decides to try and get the sarcophagus because he mistakenly thinks Grout is going paranoid over him. Also why would Grout see a dark and powerful aura over LaCroix. Hes barely older than Grout and can't even out fight the main character. Jack on the other hand murders at least 30 or over people in this game alone. Iretep fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 13:09
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CommissarMega posted:I heard somewhere that the Malkavian curse isn't actually prescience or anything of the like, but (spoiling for safety) Malkav having turned himself into some kind of vampire psychic Internet, and what people assume are premonitions are just Malkavians tapping into the MadNet™. It's both actually.
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Mar 1, 2015 13:15
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CommissarMega posted:I heard somewhere that the Malkavian curse isn't actually prescience or anything of the like, but (spoiling for safety) Malkav having turned himself into some kind of vampire psychic Internet, and what people assume are premonitions are just Malkavians tapping into the MadNet™. Malkav basically escaped his body, and distributed his intelligence into (and across) the collected brain-meat of his progeny. This drives them all mad, in one form or another. Some of those madnesses manifest in the form of genuine insight/prophecy, albeit so clouded as to be almost unintelligible even to people in the know. In addition to that, the shared mind allows them to subconsciously (or even consciously, in more powerful cases) draw on knowledge held by other Malks. As a happy, shiny bonus of lunacy, Malkav also allows himself to be used as a tendril/wand of madness by some of his childer, giving them the power to turn others insane.
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Mar 1, 2015 14:05
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so technically malkav is already "awake"? He also cannot be killed, unless genocide upon the malkavians (good luck with that), and every malk is literally being used by him?
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Mar 1, 2015 14:15
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I have a pet theory that LaCroix diablerized Grout and that's why he goes so obviously crazy over the following period of the game. The events don't really support it but I still kind of like it anyway.
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Mar 1, 2015 14:27
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double nine posted:so technically malkav is already "awake"? He also cannot be killed, unless genocide upon the malkavians (good luck with that), and every malk is literally being used by him? Yup. Although IIRC, there were end-time scenario GM option suggestions that perhaps he could burn out his entire bloodline by mistake, or through lunacy, or some such, and also that occult efforts directed against him could also ash the entire line. Plus, of course, the whole "If you go up against Caine, you lose" thing applies just as much to the Antediluvians as it does to PCs.
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Mar 1, 2015 15:34
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And IIRC the Malkav 'wires' are running through the Umbral realm of information, so there's leak-through onto the Network that doesn't come from any of the Malkavians.
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Mar 1, 2015 16:00
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Iretep posted:LaCroix wanted the sarcophagus after Jack murdered everyone inside the ship. Jack had been planning this for a while on the otherhand. If you're a malkavian Jack even threatens you if you hint that you know what hes doing in the tutorial. Even Lacroixes plan to assasinate Grout only happens after he decides to try and get the sarcophagus because he mistakenly thinks Grout is going paranoid over him. This sounds like 100% conjecture. You need support these claims: 1. Jack had been planning this for a long time. 2. Lacroix hadn't. 3. Lacroix wants to kill Grout first or only because he thinks Grout is on to his plan. 4. Lacroix wouldn't have a ridiculously dark or powerful aura.
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Mar 1, 2015 17:12
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