Dragonball Z: https://twitter.com/Love_that_Goku

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Dragonball Z: https://twitter.com/Love_that_Goku

White Light: Dec 19, 2012

TheKingofSprings posted:

Go read All-Star Superman.

The premise is that Superman finds out he's actually dying.

I read it. Even watched the animated flick.

It's a good story, but it's also a one-shot, meaning that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't actually matter. It's an 'alternate universe' story, Marvel and DC'S favorite narrative Hail Mary pass.

It's a 'best-of' compilation of all the ridiculous things Super could get away with during the Golden Age. The only people who are going to get that are people who are already familiar with that aspect of the character.

Honestly I don't think there's much else you can do with the character. Is 100 years of adventures not enough? For every one good story you get with that character you'll get a return of fifty bad ones; he's been passed around the block more than currency, he's just a tired, archaic concept at this point.

Toriyama ended his series after ten years because there wasn't anywhere else to take Goku at that point. That's how it should be, and I feel we'd be getting a lot fresher material in our neck of the woods if the Big Two had the decency to end their long running series and try something new. Anything new.

But it's a business, so they keep beating that dead horse because money. It's in their right to do that and if there's a fan base getting something out of it, more power to them. But it's caused the average Joe to become more or less indifferent towards anything we've made in decades, and that disappointing to see.

White Light fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Feb 26, 2015

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:06

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 11:53

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Parrotine posted:

Toriyama ended his series after ten years because there wasn't anywhere else to take Goku at that point. That's how it should be, and I feel we'd be getting a lot fresher material in our neck of the woods if the Big Two had the decency to end their long running series and try something new. Anything new.

Toriyama literally has a new Goku thing coming out soon and has been doing Goku-related things for years. Also, you know, Son Goku is literally a rehash of an existing character filtered through a new author.

Which is what Superman is too. There might be decades of Superman stories but they are Superman stories told by different writers with different stories. Some are 'in-continuity" (whatever that means when continuity resets every decade) and some are alt-universe but it isn't meaningfully different from someone writing about Son Wukong or Hercules or Sherlock Holmes or other characters.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:15

Monaghan: Dec 29, 2006

Parrotine posted:

I read it. Even watched the animated flick.

But it's a business, so they keep beating that dead horse because money. It's in their right to do that and if there's a fan base getting something out of it, more power to them. But it's caused the average Joe to become more or less indifferent towards anything we've made in decades, and that disappointing to see.

I disagree. I actually think comics have been strengthened over the years by having different writers tackle characters. Good writers can add a lot to existing characters and have progressed the characters. I do like manga for having a more set story, but that doesn't mean that ongoing series are essentially a bad thing.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:26

Rohan Kishibe: Oct 29, 2011; Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.

Parrotine posted:

I read it. Even watched the animated flick.

It's a good story, but it's also a one-shot, meaning that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't actually matter. It's an 'alternate universe' story, Marvel and DC'S favorite narrative Hail Mary pass.

Matter in what sense?

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:29

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Parrotine posted:

I read it. Even watched the animated flick.

It's a good story, but it's also a one-shot, meaning that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't actually matter. It's an 'alternate universe' story, Marvel and DC'S favorite narrative Hail Mary pass.

It's a 'best-of' compilation of all the ridiculous things Super could get away with during the Golden Age. The only people who are going to get that are people who are already familiar with that aspect of the character.

Honestly I don't think there's much else you can do with the character. Is 100 years of adventures not enough? For every one good story you get with that character you'll get a return of fifty bad ones; he's been passed around the block more than currency, he's just a tired, archaic concept at this point.

Toriyama ended his series after ten years because there wasn't anywhere else to take Goku at that point. That's how it should be, and I feel we'd be getting a lot fresher material in our neck of the woods if the Big Two had the decency to end their long running series and try something new. Anything new.

But it's a business, so they keep beating that dead horse because money. It's in their right to do that and if there's a fan base getting something out of it, more power to them. But it's caused the average Joe to become more or less indifferent towards anything we've made in decades, and that disappointing to see.

Well, yeah. That's kind of what happens to characters like that. You know, iconic ones that authors continue writing about long after the original author has passed on. Just look at heroes of myth if you need a classical example. Sherlock Holmes is a more recent example. Our species seems to have a habit of keeping characters alive for millennium for their ability to be culturally recognizable by large groups and the stories they can tell. Once the copyright on Superman runs -- unless Disney can get Congress to make copyright law infinite --, he will probably find himself receiving similar treatment to those classical examples decades down the line. To be honest, one could argue he already has.

To get possibly weird, while we look down on fanfiction authors because they are so so bad, it's not like it isn't a time honored human to create your own interpretations of stories you've heard. I'm no literary expert -- I studied business in college, not liberal arts --, but I'm partially sure there was even a relatively recent literary movement that was focused on reinterpreting ancient literature from different character's perspectives.

To be honest, I guess this is a ramble, but what I mean is that it isn't really that weird how our culture has handled Superman considering how humans as a whole handle iconic characters of literary tradition.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:34

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

I think it get's dumb when a single character exists for long enough that people end up playing tug-of-war with what the character 'should' be like and we get incredibly awful poo poo like Spider-Man's One More Day.

I don't think it's being a long runner so much as the character being handed off to lots and lots of different people of varying opinions and competence, but that's one thing usually leading to another, at least in Western comics.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:37

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

On one hand it's nice to see how the basic concept of a character can be interpreted and expressed in dozens of different ways.

On the other hand a lot of the times it's done pretty badly.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:45

Amorphous Blob: Jun 26, 2009; by Lowtax
(and can't post for 2 years!)

Friezas been dead for over 20 years and here we are still waiting for him to come back and fight Goku.

edit:

Amorphous Blob fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Feb 26, 2015

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:47

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

BlitzBlast posted:

On one hand it's nice to see how the basic concept of a character can be interpreted and expressed in dozens of different ways.

On the other hand a lot of the times it's done pretty badly.

That's usually how it goes, isn't it? That character is just means to express something, at least at this point. You wouldn't so much be writing a modern tale about Hercules so much as you would be trying to say something through Hercules. So, it only goes to show that sometimes the writer will do a marvelous job of using the character to tell a story and sometimes they won't. It only really matters if you're obsessively following stories around hercules and not just looking for good literature.

I guess this is where fanbase get into trouble with this.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 04:49

TriffTshngo: Mar 28, 2010; Don't get it twisted who your enemies are.

Pureauthor posted:

I think it get's dumb when a single character exists for long enough that people end up playing tug-of-war with what the character 'should' be like and we get incredibly awful poo poo like Spider-Man's One More Day.

The obvious solution is JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Guy's story is done, kill him off or retire him for the next one.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 05:08

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

i think western comics would be a lot better if everyone could just do their own story with a definitive start and end and then someone else could do their own thing that's totally unrelated to that. like that one comic where superman landed in communist russia or whatever. no need to for fifteen continuity reboots or awkward crossover events that stop stories dead in their tracks.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 05:11

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Endorph posted:

i think western comics would be a lot better if everyone could just do their own story with a definitive start and end and then someone else could do their own thing that's totally unrelated to that. like that one comic where superman landed in communist russia or whatever. no need to for fifteen continuity reboots or awkward crossover events that stop stories dead in their tracks.

So, their animated shows and otherworld (elseworld?) stories?

# ? Feb 26, 2015 05:12

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Covok posted:

So, their animated shows and otherworld (elseworld?) stories?

yes

# ? Feb 26, 2015 05:17

Cartridgeblowers: Jan 3, 2006; Super Mario Bros 3

Just stop worrying about what does and doesn't "matter" and enjoy well-written stories.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 05:31

Hobo Siege: Apr 24, 2008; by Cowcaster

Amorphous Blob posted:

Friezas been dead for over 20 years and here we are still waiting for him to come back and fight Goku.

edit:

I always wondered whether Freeza might still be alive prior to the blast. Guess we have our answer now.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 05:41

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Hobo Siege posted:

I always wondered whether Freeza might still be alive prior to the blast. Guess we have our answer now.

Aka yes, yes he was.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 05:50

Esroc: May 31, 2010; Goku would be ashamed of you.

I enjoy large ongoing universes. I'm even one of those goons who got really into the Star Wars EU. But when it comes to comics I really dislike how everything resets back to status quo after every major arc. I've always wished that instead of doing a reboot every decade they'd just let new characters take up the mantle as the old ones die or retire permanently. Superboy becomes Superman, Wonder Girl becomes Wonder Woman, Jimmy Hudson becomes Wolverine, etc etc.

I think this would work better on multiple levels. It would open up new interpretations of characters while also upholding the idea that the symbols and ideals heroes represent are more important than the individuals themselves.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 06:35

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

TriffTshngo posted:

The obvious solution is JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Guy's story is done, kill him off or retire him for the next one.

If by obvious you mean stupid, sure.

Jonathan's one thing, but I have a beef with how Araki's executed certain plot lines (or characters) in his shonen fightmans

# ? Feb 26, 2015 06:40

Neo_Crimson: Aug 15, 2011; "Is that your final dandy?"

Esroc posted:

I enjoy large ongoing universes. I'm even one of those goons who got really into the Star Wars EU. But when it comes to comics I really dislike how everything resets back to status quo after every major arc. I've always wished that instead of doing a reboot every decade they'd just let new characters take up the mantle as the old ones die or retire permanently. Superboy becomes Superman, Wonder Girl becomes Wonder Woman, Jimmy Hudson becomes Wolverine, etc etc.

I think this would work better on multiple levels. It would open up new interpretations of characters while also upholding the idea that the symbols and ideals heroes represent are more important than the individuals themselves.

This does happen but only so long as people who grew up with X character ends up running the asylum ends up bringing that character back somehow.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 06:48

Kuroyama: Sep 15, 2012; no fucking Anime in GiP

New Leaf posted:

So "History of Trunks Abridged" got delayed due to health concerns.. Anyone know what's going on? And what was the deal where the TFS dude had some major health issues a few months ago? I never got the full story there.

Considering how the month started out with regards to internet video creators, it's probably nothing serious. KaiserNeko probably just got a bad cold, and that wrecked the schedule he had setup for editing. Or maybe someone who was contributing an original animation had a cold, and that kept them from making it. Point is someone probably just had a bad cold. I'd say that at worst, someone broke a limb and is too hopped up on painkillers to work on the video.

And a few months ago, Kaiser got sick for about a week, I think. But I believe that was linked to him moving to Texas around the same time.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 11:08

Terper: Jun 26, 2012

Videl vs. Spopovich is so goddamn uncomfortable to watch.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 17:08

VanSandman: Feb 16, 2011; SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

Terper posted:

Videl vs. Spopovich is so goddamn uncomfortable to watch.

I'm pretty sure Videl at that point could have put the hurt on Nappa with like a month more training with Gohan.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 17:26

Brony Hunter: Dec 27, 2012; Motherfucking Mannis

They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them

VanSandman posted:

I'm pretty sure Videl at that point could have put the hurt on Nappa with like a month more training with Gohan.

I dunno, was there anything at all to suggest Videl was even on par with, say, early DB Goku?

# ? Feb 26, 2015 17:29

VanSandman: Feb 16, 2011; SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

Brony Hunter posted:

I dunno, was there anything at all to suggest Videl was even on par with, say, early DB Goku?

She kicked a dude's head all the way around.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 17:33

Josuke Higashikata: Mar 7, 2013

I bet she could take Guldo before ever meeting Gohan.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 17:33

HGH: Dec 20, 2011

VanSandman posted:

She kicked a dude's head all the way around.

Not to undermine her but...
Nappa punched Tien's arm out of existence though.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 17:35

Terper: Jun 26, 2012

Give her a month with Gohan, and she could probably take Raditz. Maybe a year or so for Nappa.

She's super gifted when it comes to energy control.

Terper fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Feb 26, 2015

# ? Feb 26, 2015 17:42

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

She can fly, throw a basic Ki blast, kick someone's head around, and not immediately die when faced with Broly. Easily a four figure power level.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 17:42

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

I don't know. The same could be said of late DB Goku except for that last part and that last part isn't canon.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 18:47

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Mr. Satan is kind of absurdly strong he just has no ki-control abilities. I assume if he actually sat his rear end down and learned he'd be a significantly strong guy. DBZ follows the rule of "kids are always stronger than parents" so I assume Videl is even stronger than he is.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 18:52

Brony Hunter: Dec 27, 2012; Motherfucking Mannis

They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them

ImpAtom posted:

Mr. Satan is kind of absurdly strong he just has no ki-control abilities. I assume if he actually sat his rear end down and learned he'd be a significantly strong guy. DBZ follows the rule of "kids are always stronger than parents" so I assume Videl is even stronger than he is.

Didn't he get severely injured by a bullet during the Buu arc? Bullets bounced off Kid Goku's face, if you want an idea how big the gulf is between them.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 18:56

Twiddy: May 17, 2008; To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

Brony Hunter posted:

Didn't he get severely injured by a bullet during the Buu arc? Bullets bounced off Kid Goku's face, if you want an idea how big the gulf is between them.

Yeah I think people forget that Goku started at a relatively bullshit power level and it escalated from there.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:23

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

I wish they had kept up with power levels, at least in Daizenshuu or something, until the end. I want to know how many quadrillions Super Vegito had.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:24

zetamind2000: Nov 6, 2007; ~~I'm an alien.~~

projecthalaxy posted:

I want to know how many quadrillions Super Vegito had.

The fandom has got your back on this.

quote:

Vegitio=600,000,000,000

Super Vegitio=1,850,000,000,000

Super Vegitio[full power]=2,000,000,000,000

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:26

dogs named Charlie: Apr 5, 2009; by exmarx

Krillin and Roshi are both hurt by bullets in DB. They just shrugg off the holes in their heads because it is a children's cartoon.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:30

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

RZApublican posted:

The fandom has got your back on this.

Neat! I also learned that Videl has a PL of 70 (this is wrong) and Kid Buu has a PL of 170 million after absorbing Vegeta's energy during the Frieza Saga (???)

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:34

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Power levels are bullshit.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:37

furiouskoala: Aug 4, 2007

Brony Hunter posted:

I dunno, was there anything at all to suggest Videl was even on par with, say, early DB Goku?

Only strong people were able to fly, and I like to think that you can get stronger faster if you have someone strong to train you, like Goten got stronger quicker than Goku.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:38

Rhonne: Feb 13, 2012

Saiyans are just naturally bullet proof.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:43

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 11:53

Justin_Brett: Oct 23, 2012; GAMERDOME put down LOSER

Even Android 19 is stronger than Gero? Come on, dude.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:57

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Dragonball Z: https://twitter.com/Love_that_Goku

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