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MJBuddy posted:I wouldn't quite take that assertion for granted. Outside of the 2000-2001 recession, they're very correlated. Yup REITs have a strong positive correlation to the stock market. They don't have a perfect 1.00 but they are hardly opposite correlation pull types investments like bonds. On a side note this is a pretty cool site: http://www.macroaxis.com/invest/marketCorrelation 
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Feb 27, 2015 03:05
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nollij posted:Tried it with Fidelity. No dice through their online account management. I imagine calling them and asking could either get me a "oh yes! We have gotten some requests for that!" Down to "??? What now?"
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Feb 27, 2015 03:38
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MJBuddy posted:I wouldn't quite take that assertion for granted. Outside of the 2000-2001 recession, they're very correlated. REIT's are not 'very correlated' with the US Stock market. In my mind very correlated is > .9 while REITs have been, since Vanguard started selling a REIT index func in 1997, around .6 which is actually pretty uncorrelated. Not as uncorrelated as bonds, where you can expect a correlation of .2 usually, obviously. REITs are actually far less correlated with the US Stock Market than Total International. Heck, as far as I can tell, Small Cap Blend (Vanguard Explorer) is approximately as correlated with the total US Stock Market as Total International and provides MUCH better returns. Personally, I see little value in holding total international (Europe has been far from stable for a very long time now and I don't see it improving at all any time soon) and would rather hold a REIT index for the diversification benefit while still providing solid returns. Murgos fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 16:35
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Since VASIX is just made up of underlying Vanguard Investor shares, is there any reason not to just follow a similar percentage breakdown into the underlying funds using Admiral shares when possible? All 4 underlying funds are eligible, though I might not hit the minimum investment for all of them right away.
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Feb 27, 2015 17:50
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No reason at all. The LifeStrategy funds just exist for convenience, basically. If you want to deal with a wee bit of extra hassle to cut your expenses in half, then go for it! The downside is having to rebalance every (however often), maybe once a year. For some people that's an emotionally challenging experience such that they keep freaking out at what the market is doing and changing their allocations all the time. If that's you, you should stick with the single fund.
slap me silly fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 19:33
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http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/02/27/2120422/meet-the-man-who-could-own-aviva-france/ Guy owns a life insurance contract that allows him to trade at week old prices. He's won in court several times to keep said contract. On his way to owning the insurance company at his current rates. Loan Dusty Road fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 23:27
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Dustoph posted:http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/02/27/2120422/meet-the-man-who-could-own-aviva-france/ 
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Feb 27, 2015 23:42
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So I e-mailed the advisor who was managing my IRA to let her know that I was moving it to Vanguard. She sent me back this article https://www.americanfunds.com/advisor/insights/investment-insights/expect-more-from-your-investments.html and told me she was mailing me a bunch of Morningstar reports and wanted me to come in so she could explain them to me. Frankly that article reads like a disingenuous marketing pamphlet. Sure mister used car salesman tell me about how cars you sell are better than other cars... Maybe I'm just a cynic but I'm tempted to e-mail her again saying I'm perfectly capable of "actively managing" my funds through diversifying, dollar cost averaging, re-balancing and not going nutso when the ticker moves up or down. Do I need a reality check, maybe I'm just barking into the echo chamber.
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Feb 27, 2015 23:48
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Crimpanzee posted:So I e-mailed the advisor who was managing my IRA to let her know that I was moving it to Vanguard. She sent me back this article https://www.americanfunds.com/advisor/insights/investment-insights/expect-more-from-your-investments.html and told me she was mailing me a bunch of Morningstar reports and wanted me to come in so she could explain them to me. Stick with your gut. Pull your money out and if she gives you a hard time, she's violating her duty to you. gently caress American Funds, their loads are insane and they don't perform better than the S&P500 over the long haul.
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Feb 27, 2015 23:54
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Crimpanzee posted:So I e-mailed the advisor who was managing my IRA to let her know that I was moving it to Vanguard. She sent me back this article https://www.americanfunds.com/advisor/insights/investment-insights/expect-more-from-your-investments.html and told me she was mailing me a bunch of Morningstar reports and wanted me to come in so she could explain them to me. Send her a copy of A Random Walk down Wall Street and tell her you want her to come over so you can explain it to her.
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Feb 27, 2015 23:59
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Crimpanzee posted:So I e-mailed the advisor who was managing my IRA to let her know that I was moving it to Vanguard. She sent me back this article https://www.americanfunds.com/advisor/insights/investment-insights/expect-more-from-your-investments.html and told me she was mailing me a bunch of Morningstar reports and wanted me to come in so she could explain them to me. Don't engage with her, just continue the process with Vanguard. At best you'll come out of the meeting annoyed.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:00
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Inept posted:Don't engage with her, just continue the process with Vanguard. At best you'll come out of the meeting annoyed. This is the true best answer. It is her job to take money from peoples' investing portfolios. If you talk to her she will not admit for a second that you not giving your money to her is anything but a terrible idea.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:01
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Crimpanzee posted:So I e-mailed the advisor who was managing my IRA to let her know that I was moving it to Vanguard.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:04
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Crimpanzee posted:So I e-mailed the advisor who was managing my IRA to let her know that I was moving it to Vanguard. She sent me back this article https://www.americanfunds.com/advisor/insights/investment-insights/expect-more-from-your-investments.html and told me she was mailing me a bunch of Morningstar reports and wanted me to come in so she could explain them to me. She just wants her share of that sweet sweet 6% front load. Sigma's right, she wants you face to face for the hard sell.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:06
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Is this a thing you're supposed to do? I just pulled all of my money out of American Funds last week and dumped it into Vanguard and never talked to anyone. Should I be calling my American Funds advisor to close the account? Only if you want to laugh as they beg and plead.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:10
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Crimpanzee posted:So I e-mailed the advisor who was managing my IRA to let her know that I was moving it to Vanguard. She sent me back this article https://www.americanfunds.com/advisor/insights/investment-insights/expect-more-from-your-investments.html and told me she was mailing me a bunch of Morningstar reports and wanted me to come in so she could explain them to me. She's trying to preserve her completely unjustified commissions using the tools she has at hand. Understandable, but you can safely ignore them. You have no responsibility to justify your decisions to this person, who, after all, has been supposedly working for you and is now no longer working for you. You don't owe her anything.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:10
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Nail Rat posted:Only if you want to laugh as they beg and plead. He should tell them to come over and present their case, but it must be recorded for edutainment purposes.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:11
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Inept posted:Don't engage with her, just continue the process with Vanguard. At best you'll come out of the meeting annoyed. I had already mailed my paperwork to Vanguard before reading this second mail. Her first one was pretty understandable, asking what I was considering investing in and saying her door was always open, it is a business after all. I politely but firmly stated that I was committed and thanked her for her service. This one just seemed so heavy handed, pushing the specific fund family like a pimp shoveling H at a hooker just grossed me out. She won't be hearing from me anymore.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:11
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Load fees of any kind are so appalling, and 6% is basically giving up a year's worth of returns, statistically, up front and losing all the possible compounding on it forever. And then they continue to pound your butt with 1%+ annual fees. It's highway robbery and no mathematically sound study has ever proven that expensive, actively-managed funds outperform low-cost, passively-managed funds. If anything it's the opposite. Scenario 1: Invest $10,000 in American Funds. Right off the bat your $10,000 is now $9,400. And every year they leech away another 1%+ of your total portfolio in fees. Scenario 2: Invest $10,000 with Vanguard or Fidelity. Your $10,000 is still $10,000. You lose 0.05 - 0.2% in fees annually. The annual growth of scenario 1 would have to outperform the growth of scenario 2 by such a vast margin to be worth it. And statistically it will not outperform.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:13
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There are two booths at the carnival. One is labeled "Hot Dogs for the Well-Informed." Its menu is a bit long and complicated, and there is an automated touch-screen interface you use to order a hot dog: when you place your order, the hot dog is served by a robot. Occasionally, someone walks up and orders a few hot dogs. The other booth is labeled "Hot Dogs For Idiots". It has a long, long line. Throughout the carnival is advertising for the Hot Dogs for Idiots booth. There is a person behind the counter dressed as a clown. There is only one item on the huge, garishly-painted menu: it just says "HOT DOGS" with no price given. Whenever someone orders a hot dog from the Hot Dogs for Idiots booth, an employee slips out the back, goes over to the Hot Dogs for the Well Informed booth, and rapidly orders a hot dog. They bring it back to the Hot Dogs for Idiots booth, and then the clown charges the customer whatever was just paid for the Well-Informed dog, plus a dollar.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:18
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Dustoph posted:http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/02/27/2120422/meet-the-man-who-could-own-aviva-france/ Can he make a hedge fund, assign the contract, get outside investors and charge them 5 and 50 on this investment?
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Feb 28, 2015 00:24
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Trigger warning your clown reference yo
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Feb 28, 2015 00:25
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Oh my god the thread title. Awesome.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:28
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Leperflesh posted:HOT DOGS I've spent my grocery budget for February but I absolutely must pick up some sausage and sauerkraut on my way home now, thanks a lot! I guess I'll just head on over to the bad with money thread.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:28
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Leperflesh posted:Oh my god the thread title. Awesome. You did this!
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Feb 28, 2015 00:35
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Leperflesh posted:Oh my god the thread title. Awesome. Fantastic.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cs5O0PEnYs
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Feb 28, 2015 00:42
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crazypeltast52 posted:Can he make a hedge fund, assign the contract, get outside investors and charge them 5 and 50 on this investment? Nah, it only scales until the insurance company goes bankrupt. The government of France may step in at that point, but the party is over.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:56
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Leperflesh posted:Oh my god the thread title. Awesome. I love it, finally a worthy replacement for the Robert Boggle title.
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Feb 28, 2015 01:32
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flowinprose posted:I love it, finally a worthy replacement for the Robert Boggle title.
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Feb 28, 2015 01:37
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flowinprose posted:I love it, finally a worthy replacement for the Robert Boggle title. My little baby finally grew up 
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Feb 28, 2015 02:06
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Murgos posted:REIT's are not 'very correlated' with the US Stock market. In my mind very correlated is > .9 while REITs have been, since Vanguard started selling a REIT index func in 1997, around .6 which is actually pretty uncorrelated. Not as uncorrelated as bonds, where you can expect a correlation of .2 usually, obviously. Having a standard of .9 basically implies that the only think correlated with stocks is stocks. .6 is also not pretty uncorrelated. 0 is uncorrelated. .6 is a published paper in economics. But my point doesn't disagree with that there's some variation from stocks; I'm just stating that if you have a complete portfolio, REITs take the place of stocks in risk management, not bonds.
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Feb 28, 2015 02:45
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This is from a page back, but I can't let this float out there. Leperflesh posted:See limitations, though. You need to be careful about exactly how you use the primary & secondary homes in order to retain the deduction. Consult a tax advisor. Since this is sort of a newbie thread, please do not give out horrifyingly false information re: investment properties. It's not just this post, but pretty much every other post you made regarding rental real estate. You seem to know a lot about equity based investments, but don't let in depth knowledge of one subject confuse yourself into being an expert in an unrelated one. That link you provided is on the level of an ask.com article in terms of its depth and accuracy, I can understand why you think you're qualified to give an opinion if all you read is that stuff. For one, it's a schedule E item in most cases, not schedule C (Sch C real estate will very rarely apply to a person renting out a single property that they own). As a tax payer, you don't want Schedule A deductions, they're the worst loving ones. You lose all value of the first $6,200 (if single 12,400 if married). Any deductions on Sch E you get the full benefit of. Now, the worry is the passive activity loss limitation on Schedule E. Are you limited in the losses you can take? Maybe, but probably not. Even if you are limited, the losses will carryforward to future tax years. The exemption is pretty forgiving and if you're actually managing your property, or if you carefully word your contract with a management company you'll be covered. Basically anything covered by the below removes the passive activity loss limit. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040se.pdf IRS Sch E Instructions posted:Active participation. You can meet the The main goal of course is to not have actual cash loses, but tax loses. Thanks for others for calling LeperFlesh out for incorrect information. If you have an itch to look into rental real estate, we have a thread for that. It's full of full time and part time landlords that actually have experience. Posts get answered pretty quickly unless I'm the one slacking in my response. Need to go solve that right now. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3548312
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Feb 28, 2015 14:09
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Bloody Queef posted:The exemption is pretty forgiving and if you're actually managing your property, or if you carefully word your contract with a management company you'll be covered. Basically anything covered by the below removes the passive activity loss limit. The passive activity loss exception is only "pretty forgiving" if your MAGI is below 100k-150k. If you make more money than that, you have to basically be a real estate professional to qualify. Also, it is limited to $25,000 even if you make little enough money to get it. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/passive-activity-loss-pal-rules-irs-limits-deducting-passive-losses.html Bloody Queef posted:Since this is sort of a newbie thread, please do not give out horrifyingly false information re: investment properties.
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Feb 28, 2015 17:29
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On a more random note many complaints with 401k plans can be fixed if your plan has a self-directed option: For Fidelity the gimmicky name is brokeragelink as shown below:  Basically allows you to use money from your company plan to buy just about every stock under the sun including Vanguard investments. For Brokeragelink it's a fairly good commission schedules, ishares/fidelity are free, $8.95 flat rate for other stocks and ETFs. The commission fee is fairly large for mutual funds at $75 per trade, so it's only cost efficient if you want to move a large lump sum over to the Target Retirement date fund.
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Feb 28, 2015 18:38
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Droo posted:The passive activity loss exception is only "pretty forgiving" if your MAGI is below 100k-150k. If you make more money than that, you have to basically be a real estate professional to qualify. Also, it is limited to $25,000 even if you make little enough money to get it. Your article doesn't contradict any of the things he said.
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Feb 28, 2015 18:43
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Droo posted:The passive activity loss exception is only "pretty forgiving" if your MAGI is below 100k-150k. If you make more money than that, you have to basically be a real estate professional to qualify. Also, it is limited to $25,000 even if you make little enough money to get it. You're right, I should have provided more specificity. Either way, the carry forward of the passive activity loss should do you right. Also someone married making 150 MAGI after fully funding 401ks, HSAs, health insurance, etc will be well over 200k pretax salary. I wouldn't exactly call that "so little" and that income level is slightly beyond the scope of this thread. Bloody Queef fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Feb 28, 2015 |
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Feb 28, 2015 18:51
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etalian posted:On a more random note many complaints with 401k plans can be fixed if your plan has a self-directed option:   But at least I've got a few good Spartan Index funds available with ERs in the 0.07% to 0.21% range.
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Feb 28, 2015 20:31
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MJBuddy posted:Having a standard of .9 basically implies that the only think correlated with stocks is stocks. Yeah, I'll agree to disagree completely with you.  With regards to correlating autism to eating peanut butter, a 0.6 would in fact be a very high correlation that I'd worry about. When you're talking about financial numbers with an infinite number of variables, 0.6 is not highly correlated. http://sites.stat.psu.edu/~jls/stat100/lectures/lec16.pdf for reference. As a statistical note, yes, 0.5 is generally accepted a "high" correlation, but its just a shade of grey above "weak" correlation, and again---you have to meter in the context of the variables under discussion. Don't care to discuss it all too much more on my end, I already stated that the increased risk of importing REITS in lieu of bonds in my portfolio was a known risk increase, and I know its not for everyone. I'm surprised my derail even started when I qualified the discussion with 'I'm just an average joe'.
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Feb 28, 2015 20:59
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Guinness posted:
The Spartan funds are good options, problems is most 401k plans don't offer low ER good foreign stock investments. Usually it's lovely things like high expense ratio Oakmark funds or high cost REIT funds.
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Mar 1, 2015 01:21
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