Chris James 2 posted:The Browns are the only team that could have had Peyton or Brady and you still know they would have hosed it up somehow. i wonder if leaf had been drafted by the browns if they would have ever bothered to get the team back or if the 98 season would've killed all hope in one swift blow
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Mar 1, 2015 00:29
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Cleveland gets off on being miserable and pathetic. If Richard Nixon were a city...
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Mar 1, 2015 01:22
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wheez the roux posted:what do they do when that thing hits the floor Use some toilet paper?
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Mar 1, 2015 01:32
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football fuckerman posted:The browns have tried harder than any other franchise to find a franchise QB in the last fifteen years and that is why God is fake actually Have they? They've had some recent terrible reaches and then a bunch of mid-round picks that were highly unlikely to work out. 2014 - Manziel, 1st round (22nd pick) 2012 - Weeden, 1st round (22nd pick) 2010 - McCoy, 3rd round 2007 - Quinn, 1st round (22nd pick) 2005 - Frye, 3rd round 2004 - McCown, 4th round 2000 - Wynn, 6th round 1999 - Couch, 1st (1st overall) The only guy on that list that isn't a reach is arguably Quinn. And Couch, who's ruination is Cleveland's own fault. Cleveland needs to stop picking quarterbacks at 22nd! There's a reason those guys fell that far.
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Mar 1, 2015 02:33
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NC-17 posted:Have they? They've had some recent terrible reaches and then a bunch of mid-round picks that were highly unlikely to work out. Can't think of where to post this, but this seems apt. 
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Mar 1, 2015 02:41
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NC-17 posted:Have they? They've had some recent terrible reaches and then a bunch of mid-round picks that were highly unlikely to work out. 100% of those picks are well within their "estimated" value. Weeden is the most arguable but that's because Mike Holmgren is a loving monster.
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Mar 1, 2015 03:38
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At least the Browns were able to finally complete the full set of McCowns. Weeden was what 28 at the time of the draft? That is questionable as hell.
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Mar 1, 2015 05:32
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NC-17 posted:Have they? They've had some recent terrible reaches and then a bunch of mid-round picks that were highly unlikely to work out. And other than Couch, name a single loving one that anyone really thought would be a good NFL QB. I certainly can't find one.
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Mar 1, 2015 05:37
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Fenrir posted:And other than Couch, name a single loving one that anyone really thought would be a good NFL QB. I certainly can't find one. people thought manziel would
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Mar 1, 2015 05:40
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Quinn at the time was thought of as a decent prospect. In some circles Manziel? I kind of liked Weeden because I'm dumb, although I liked him in the third round.
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Mar 1, 2015 05:42
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Fenrir posted:And other than Couch, name a single loving one that anyone really thought would be a good NFL QB. I certainly can't find one. Brady Quinn was, for sure
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Mar 1, 2015 05:44
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Metapod posted:people thought manziel would I'm still trying to figure out how many drugs that took. I mean, yeah, I joked about him getting pulled by the Cowboys on draft day, but it blew my mind when he really went in the first round when he was a 3rd round project at best. FeedingHam2Cats posted:Brady Quinn was, for sure Hmm, yeah, you're right on that one. I think we all thought he might not suck. Hell, we were all hi-fiving each other when we saw that 2007 Browns draft. It looked so loving good on paper, then... 
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Mar 1, 2015 05:56
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Metapod posted:people thought manziel would To be fair, TFF thought he was a boom/bust at best.
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Mar 1, 2015 05:57
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Chilichimp posted:To be fair, TFF thought he was a boom/bust at best. I've called him a loving bust since college and I'm far from the only one.
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Mar 1, 2015 05:58
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Fenrir posted:I've called him a loving bust since college and I'm far from the only one. 
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Mar 1, 2015 06:02
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Chilichimp posted:To be fair, TFF thought he was a boom/bust at best. yeah but people outside of TFF really thought he would be great
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Mar 1, 2015 06:04
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There were quite a few people that were in his corner as gently caress here. After the Duke game, the draft thread turned into a cess pool.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:07
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Volkerball posted:There were quite a few people that were in his corner as gently caress here. After the Duke game, the draft thread turned into a cess pool. Like this guy: 
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Mar 1, 2015 06:08
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Fenrir posted:I'm still trying to figure out how many drugs that took. I mean, yeah, I joked about him getting pulled by the Cowboys on draft day, but it blew my mind when he really went in the first round when he was a 3rd round project at best. I know you're brilliant and all but come on. I'm sure everything you saw was true because holy poo poo look at his career, but he was a legit first round pick. e: Sorry I misread this and thought you were talking about Quinn here Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 06:19
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Metapod posted:yeah but people outside of TFF really thought he would be great Yeah, almost everyone had JFF ranked first or second at QB. I never saw his college skills translating to the NFL but thought his partying stuff was typical college poo poo, not the train-wreck-about-to-happen that did.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:27
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Grittybeard posted:I know you're brilliant and all but come on. I'm sure everything you saw was true because holy poo poo look at his career, but he was a legit first round pick. How do you define being worth a first round pick? I mean obviously a team felt he was worth one, he was picked in the first. But comparing him to other talents taken in the first recently, factoring in his likelihood of busting, etc... it is hard for a lot of us to agree that he was worth a first. I didn't think he would succeed, didn't think he was pro ready, and didn't think he had much upside to make him worth the risk. I don't see how I could agree that a player like that is worth a first.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:28
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NC-17 posted:Have they? They've had some recent terrible reaches and then a bunch of mid-round picks that were highly unlikely to work out. Um no poo poo they haven't landed one, that's why they are where they are. But yes, you're only showing that they've tried repeatedly to find one. Certainly more than other QB-needy teams like the chiefs, raiders, dolphins, vikings, on and on
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Mar 1, 2015 06:37
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the jersey with all the names on it goes back to 1998, but if you start at 2002, the raiders and browns are neck and neck for incompetence at finding a QB. we've both cracked 20 starters since then.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:39
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Chichevache posted:How do you define being worth a first round pick? I mean obviously a team felt he was worth one, he was picked in the first. But comparing him to other talents taken in the first recently, factoring in his likelihood of busting, etc... it is hard for a lot of us to agree that he was worth a first. I didn't think he would succeed, didn't think he was pro ready, and didn't think he had much upside to make him worth the risk. I don't see how I could agree that a player like that is worth a first. We're talking Quinn right? At the time (this is important) he was a quarterback who performed well against holy poo poo USC and everyone else running a pro style offense with oh my god Charlie Weis mentoring him. His arm wasn't elite but it wasn't post-surgery Pennington or anything. In theory he should have been ready to step in quickly and be adequate with room for growth. Now that didn't happen for sure and I hope we've all learned Charlie Weis is at most an OC at any level and you shouldn't listen to him unless he's calling a play, but other than hating Notre Dame quarterbacks I can't remember exactly why everyone thought he was utter poo poo back then.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:39
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Grittybeard posted:We're talking Quinn right? At the time (this is important) he was a quarterback who performed well against holy poo poo USC and everyone else running a pro style offense with oh my god Charlie Weis mentoring him. His arm wasn't elite but it wasn't post-surgery Pennington or anything. In theory he should have been ready to step in quickly and be adequate with room for growth. Pretty sure he's talking Manziel.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:44
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Grittybeard posted:We're talking Quinn right? At the time (this is important) he was a quarterback who performed well against holy poo poo USC and everyone else running a pro style offense with oh my god Charlie Weis mentoring him. His arm wasn't elite but it wasn't post-surgery Pennington or anything. In theory he should have been ready to step in quickly and be adequate with room for growth. Pretty sure we're still talking Manziel. Gritty been drinkin'.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:44
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God damnit, second time this week I've misread quotes. This time yes, I might have been enjoying a beverage or two. The first time I was just fooled by two people being 30 years old 
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Mar 1, 2015 06:48
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Volkerball posted:the jersey with all the names on it goes back to 1998, but if you start at 2002, the raiders and browns are neck and neck for incompetence at finding a QB. we've both cracked 20 starters since then. and it took until this recent season to finally have a QB start all 16 games 
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Mar 1, 2015 07:13
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LEGO Genetics posted:and it took until this recent season to finally have a QB start all 16 games I really home this Carr works out for you guys 
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Mar 1, 2015 08:10
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Weeden was definitely the worst pick in the last 15 years by ANY TEAM considering his age and injury history and when he was drafted. Absolutely inexcusable, and yes, worse than JaMarcus because at least he had upside. You can at least say SOME people thought Manziel would work out, and Quinn and Couch were both seen as good picks (even McCoy was, but as a project). And really, in 1999 who else would they have picked but Couch? Akili Smith? Even if they had come back in 1998 instead I am 100% sure they would have picked Leaf over Manning. The problem is every time the Browns are in a position to draft a QB they have almost certainly just undergone a complete front office/coaching overhaul. Last year if they had just drafted Bridgewater or Carr like 100% of the people in the world except one idiot hobo said to do we wouldn't be in this position right now. Any time there are a couple of good options at QB the Browns somehow won too many games the previous year (usually 5) and nobody will let them trade up so they're stuck picking through the scraps. Even in the strange years when a few top prospects slide further than imagined, the Browns bungle their pick and choose the one guy in the entire class who has zero shot of success. It is just in the nature of constantly re-starting and having zero consistency from year to year that doesn't allow them to ever make smart choices. Perhaps worse than drafting bad QBs is our infatuation with journeymen free agents like Kelly Holcomb, Jeff Garcia, Brian Hoyer, and now surely Josh McCown. I can't wait for the training camp articles about how McCown is in the best shape of his life and went 6 for 11 in the morning practice with excuses heaped on for any mistake made. Last year's draft was particularly dreadful for the Bridgewater/Carr miss, but also because they wasted their OTHER first round pick on a bad cornerback instead of the insanely good receiving class even when they knew their only good receiver would be missing most of the year. How this team is allowed to operate without league intervention never ceases to amaze me. Bigass Moth fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 14:08
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Manziel's biggest issue is that he's an idiot. If you could somehow take him to a mad scientist and do a brain transfer with someone who was a student of the game the result would be a Brett Farve / Fran Tarkinton level football magician.
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Mar 1, 2015 15:11
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MonsterWalk posted:100% of those picks are well within their "estimated" value. Weeden is the most arguable but that's because Mike Holmgren is a loving monster. Manziel was always a major project - at best. He needs to improve physically - like another 20+ lbs - he's a complete twig and will never survive in the NFL in his current "shape". He's really immature, and needs sober up and grow up as well. And he needs to learn how to be an NFL quarterback and play in a pro-style offense. These are some pretty huge impediments to success. But instead of taking the better bet to their problems in Bridgewater, the Browns went with the project guy. Even though a team in their position cannot really afford the luxury of a project quarterback. They need to find the answer to the position that has made them a laughingstock in their division since the team was brought back. Weeden was a terrible pick, and no one but the Browns were interested in him in the first round. They managed to find the one guy who was a combination of old, mediocre athlete, mixed accuracy, and had shoulder issues due to being a loving baseball player. Drafted after Weeden: Osweiler, Wilson, Foles. Any of those guys would have been better choices. Quinn is the only player that Browns have picked in the last ten years that was generally a consensus first round pick. The rest of their selections have been two 3rd rounders, a 4th and a 6th. They need to stop breathing in magic pixie dust for once, stop reaching and pick a player who actually looks like a NFL quarterback and has played in a pro-style offense and isn't 30 goddamn years old. Of course the root of most of these problems is ownership, and there doesn't seem to be much hope of that improving anytime soon. Impossibly Perfect Sphere fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 16:13
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NC-17 posted:Manziel was always a major project - at best. He needs to improve physically - like another 20+ lbs - he's a complete twig and will never survive in the NFL in his current "shape". He's really immature, and needs sober up and grow up as well. And he needs to learn how to be an NFL quarterback and play in a pro-style offense. These are some pretty huge impediments to success. But instead of taking the better bet to their problems in Bridgewater, the Browns went with the project guy. Even though a team in their position cannot really afford the luxury of a project quarterback. They need to find the answer to the position that has made them a laughingstock in their division since the team was brought back. All of this is true but you're asking the Browns front office to be reasonable, which they have proven time and time again to be incapable of. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
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Mar 1, 2015 16:19
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I was cool with Dallas drafting Manziel because it would've been funny, and they could've sat his rear end and let him develop behind Romo for a few years. Bonus points for Sometimes you just want to watch the world burn 
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Mar 1, 2015 16:36
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NC-17 posted:Quinn is the only player that Browns have picked in the last ten years that was generally a consensus first round pick. The rest of their selections have been two 3rd rounders, a 4th and a 6th. They need to stop breathing in magic pixie dust for once, stop reaching and pick a player who actually looks like a NFL quarterback and has played in a pro-style offense and isn't 30 goddamn years old. Of course the root of most of these problems is ownership, and there doesn't seem to be much hope of that improving anytime soon. And besides that, last year was the only year that they passed on any better QB to reach at QB. When they picked Quinn there weren't any Bridgewaters out there, same when they took Weeden. they also tried like hell to get Griffin, who was supposed to be amazing. they've tried, they haven't been in great position to take the best prospects in recent years and they often settle for bad prospects instead
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Mar 1, 2015 18:37
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At the time the Weeden pick was made everyone said he would be a reach in the 2nd round. Foles or Osweiler would have been a good pick at that point for a QB-needy team. Obviously Wilson would have been great but that's hindsight.
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Mar 1, 2015 19:11
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Johnny Manziel Scouting Report Pros: Homeless men love him Makes $$$ motions with his hands and it looks cool Looks scrappy/has a lot of moxie/gritty/plays with a lot of heart (short and white) Cons: actual football ability is questionable is actually a gigantic idiot
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Mar 1, 2015 19:47
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Darth Brooks posted:Manziel's biggest issue is that he's an idiot. If you could somehow take him to a mad scientist and do a brain transfer with someone who was a student of the game the result would be a Brett Farve / Fran Tarkinton level football magician. lolno.
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Mar 1, 2015 20:50
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Haslam had the homeless guy killed, didnt he?
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Mar 1, 2015 21:00
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I think the pulse of TFF regarding JFF was 10% Unironically thought he would destroy the NFL 10% Wanted him to absolutely fail outright (these people are cheering right now) 80% Wanted him to skullfuck the NFL, but that it was unlikely
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Mar 1, 2015 21:19
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