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silvergoose: Mar 18, 2006; IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS

There's always Napoleon's Triumph, it has built in variant rules for 4, 6, or 8!

# ? Mar 1, 2015 03:08

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# ? May 17, 2024 19:35

A Strange Aeon: Mar 26, 2010; You are now a slimy little toad; The Great Twist

cenotaph posted:

Yeah, I'd say it's a medium game once you actually digest the rules. The BGG weight scales for wargames can be a bit off since it's mostly people used to higher complexity games rating them. It's a side effect of trying to put game complexities from War to Advanced Squad Leader on a 1-5 scale. Playtime can vary. An hour and a half at the low side and 2.5 at the high, I think.

As for my obsessiveness, I think it's got a lot of stuff going for it. People always talk about the cards and the chaos but there's more to it than that.

Things everyone talks about :

-The cards break up your ability to make optimal plays every turn so it keeps scenarios from being easy to "solve."

-The cards prevent you from knowing your opponent's capabilities. You might be afraid to move forward but he's not holding an op fire. You might want to advance into melee against a weaker unit but he's holding multiple ambushes to ruin your day.

-When you flip a card for your "die roll" it might have a trigger on it which can lead to stuff like sniper fire, air support, reinforcements, heroes, field promotions, and a bunch of other cool stuff both positive and negative.

-The different nationalities play a bit differently because of their unit stats, leader to squad ratio, and card decks.

-The rulebook might be the best wargame rulebook ever written. It's incredibly clear and concise. The rules take a less-is-more approach in regards to chrome and fiddly exceptions. It might be a bit tricky to get a sense of game flow from the rules but there is an excellent example of play in the scenario book that lays everything out.

-Random Scenario Generator: What the game was before GMT insisted on having historical scenarios. I haven't used it yet, unfortunately. Creates balanced scenarios with a few die rolls and player choices. In the Mediterranean expansion there are point values for all the units in case you want to design your own scenarios from scratch as well.

Things that don't get mentioned enough:

-You can't kill a unit with one shot. You can make multiple fire groups and try to break it and then eliminate it in one go but you'll never get one absurdly lucky shot that takes out a bunch of squads and means the scenario is functionally over already. Mostly you'll probably see multiple turns of fire and rally cards played to eliminate units. This means that you need appropriate hand management and proper positioning to project a volume of fire great enough to gain the upper hand.

-Multiple victory conditions. You can win by killing enough squads to force your opponent to surrender, but there is also a victory point system. You get VPs for taking objectives (some of which are of hidden value), eliminating opposing units, exiting units off your opponent's board edge, and occasionally from an event. You mostly don't have scenarios that say "take this building in five turns." Other games that have those types of scenarios can see one player failing to roll well on turn one and their chances of winning drop precipitously. You don't get that here. Say you're close to elimination but ahead by a couple of VP. If you move your last unit off the board the game ends and you win by VP.

-Random game length. Time advances happen when you draw a time trigger or a deck runs out. When you advance the time marker into the sudden death space on the time track you roll to see if the game ends. If not, you keep playing. This prevents a player from feeling like they've already lost or taking a last desperate gamble on the last turn since they know it will be the last turn. I honestly think random game length is one of the most important things a tactical level game can have.

-The Initiative Card. Basically one player starts the game holding this card and can pass it to the opponent to force a re-roll. This is useful for denying time advances that usually favor the defender, making sure your important leader doesn't die at an inopportune moment and a host of other things. It normalizes the dice rolling and adds a pseudo-negotiation element.

-No vehicles. A lot of squad level games like to pursue the ideal of a short scenario with just a few squads and one or two vehicles per side. These scenarios mostly suck because vehicles are usually so powerful that whoever pops the other's tank first wins. Combat Commander just focuses on being a great infantry combat game and is much better for it. There is the Fighting Formations series by Jensen if you're dying for vehicles. I don't like it as much as Combat Commander but it at least achieves the critical mass of vehicles necessary to make it so that losing one of them isn't game over.

There's probably some other stuff I wanted to gush about but that's the highlights. So basically you've got a lot of stuff to juggle around every turn, and you've always got options even if you're behind. Most of the scenarios are really well balanced and fun to play and you can roll your own. It's got a pretty good community as far as BGG goes. The expansions add a couple of rules each that are only applicable to scenarios from that expansion. So you can get Normandy or Stalingrad flavor without rules bloat. I think it's the rare combination of randomness that creates tension and interesting twists without mucking up game balance.

Holy poo poo, I already loved Combat Commander but somehow you made me love it even more.

Is the Vassal implementation good? My buddy is having a kid in the nearish future and I'm not sure how much face to face time we're going to have for war games.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 05:31

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

COOL CORN posted:

Snagged a 95% unpunched copy of Beyond Valor 3rd edition for $60. SO EXCITED.

Here I go, spiralling down the ASL hole.

I might have spent an entire day this week watching a playthrough of the first ASLSK scenario on youtube and playing along.

Foehammer posted:

I'm just happy the drat rulebook is back in stock at MMP

Ug, it is so loving annoying and something I didn't expect when I got into this stuff. I really should buy all the starter kit stuff that is available right now.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 05:37

T-Bone: Sep 14, 2004; jakes did this?

cenotaph posted:

great stuff

Thanks man this sounds great and has definitely put CC as my #1 next wargame purchase (if the Jensen bump hadn't already sealed it). The replayability promoted by the cards in a hex format especially appeals to me.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 06:47

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

bunnielab posted:

Ug, it is so loving annoying and something I didn't expect when I got into this stuff. I really should buy all the starter kit stuff that is available right now.

Here's a tip - Starter Kit #2 is out of print, but don't worry about waiting on it or paying stupid prices on eBay for a copy. All the gun rules that it introduces are also in SK#3, and the scenarios in SK#2 aren't really that good in my opinion. Once you get #1 under your belt, just pick up a copy of #3.

I'll also throw out NWS as the best place to buy ASL stuff, seconded by Gamer's Armory (which is also my local shop!)

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/
http://gamersarmory.com/

edit-- for example, NWS has SK#3 for $23, vs. $35 on MMP's website. Gamer's Armory has it for $28.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 06:53

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

T-Bone posted:

Thanks man this sounds great and has definitely put CC as my #1 next wargame purchase (if the Jensen bump hadn't already sealed it). The replayability promoted by the cards in a hex format especially appeals to me.

A Strange Aeon posted:

Holy poo poo, I already loved Combat Commander but somehow you made me love it even more.

Is the Vassal implementation good? My buddy is having a kid in the nearish future and I'm not sure how much face to face time we're going to have for war games.

Glad I could ~~indoctrinate~~ welcome more CC fans. Vassal quite good and simple to use. The older version had rules enforcement and FP calculation and stuff like that but it ran like a three legged mule because of Java, so they cut that stuff out. I kind of wish it had a way to track FP like you can on the victory track. I guess you could just type it in the chat window to remember. The urban sniper counter from Stalingrad seems to be missing so I use Nina, Local Hero from Resistance because she's :krad:

Oh yeah, you'll want to turn the sound down for Vassal when you play because there are audio clips for the event triggers and you don't want gunshots going off at inappropriate volumes with your headphones on.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 07:31

tomdidiot: Apr 23, 2014; Stupid Grognard

I just played a solo game of Reluctant Enemies. Won by the Brits on Turn 10 when the Australian 21st Brigade stormed Beirut. The Brits were pretty much at the end of their logistical capabilities - they burned their last bit of supply on the Haifa-Sidon-Beiru axis on their final attack

The game started off quite interstingly - in the west, the 21st Brigade were able to get across the Litani in turn 1, through a bold Exploitation phase movement by my mobile Aussie units, but a massive French counterattack, including by the 6th Chaussers and some French Foreign Legion units, were able to drop the Brits back across the Litani. In the centre, the Australian 25th Brigade were able to surround Meradjoun, while British Yeomanry units blocked the road from the North. In the east, the 16th Tunisian and 17th Algerian REgiment were able to conduct a skillful fighting withdrawl towards Damascus and made almost no attempt to confront the 5th Indian Brigade and the Free French Division, bar a few rearguard actions by low TQ units - I didn't feel it was clever to waste supply and precious troops fighting the far numerically and qualitatively superior Brits in the open desert when I had a lovely river line I could pull back to that was far more defensible, and where my Armoured/Mechanized Reserve from the 7th Chaussers would be able to crush any attack that somehow got across the river line.

The battle would quickly slow into a grind in the middle - The Brits had spent far, far too much supply in the first few turns, and were genuniely struggling with their supply lines (it didn't help that their supply rolls were genuinely awful a significant amount of the time - they must have gotten 1.5 supplies half the time). The Litani river, and the casualties the Australians took from being beaten back across the first time round, were a huge deterrent. In the centre, the rough hilly terrain meant progress was slow - an assault on the new surrouneded Meradjyoun failed, andthis allowed the 6th Foreign Legion Regiment to succesfully relieve the beleagured garrison, and more importantly, the supplies. The French quickly realised that the position was untenable, and volutnarily withdrew from Meradjyoun to positions further up the valley. In the east, the precarious supply situation meant the 5th Indian Brigade and the Free French Division would take their time to reach the El Awad river, but they made few attempts to actually cross it - the Vichy troops that had escaped from the empty desert were now in prepared, dug in positions along the El Awad river that discouraged the British from attacking.

The British Breakthrough ultimately would come in the left, where two lucky naval bombardment rolls managed to DG both stacks of French units on the North bank of the Litani. This, along with a flanking march through the hills west of Meradjyoun by the Staffordshire and Cheshire yeomanry, allowed the British to destroy 5 or so French units, including the damned 6th Chaussers and advance to the Aoaule river. The next turn, thanks to a double turn, I was able to blow away the lone French Regiment that had positioned itself on the north bank of thE Aoaule, and the road to Beirut looked clear.

This was when the French were able to deliver their two major reverses against the British - firslty, the French rebuild pull for the turn gave them back none other than the 6th Chaussers, which they promptly dumped just south of Beirut and charged straight down the Beirut road to thorw the British back across the Aouale, nearly destroying the 21st Brigade in the process. Secondly, the British had withdrawn a lot of their forces in the central valley to support their push along the coast, leaving only the Australian 25th Brigade holding the line just north of Meradjyoun. A massive french coutnerattack by the 24th Regiment and 6th Foreign Legion regiment drat well near destroyed the 25th Brigade as well, and only the speedy redeployment of the British 16th Brigade, originally slated for the push on Beirut, to the Meradjyoun front stopped the French from recapturing Meradjyoun, capturing Wilson's HQ, and driving a wedge through the middle of the British lines.

These actions left both sides exhausted - the British had burned most of their supplies crossing the Litani and Alouale, and French casualties trying to hold back these attacks were crippling - the pursuit tantalising breakthrough in the centre cost the French dear. The rest fo the game were defined by each side's repsective problem - the British had practically run out of supplies (I had around 1S of supply in the desert, 2S just south of Meradjyoun, and around 1S on the Coastal road), while the French were running out of units! What ultimately allowed the Australian 21st Brigade across the Aloualle were the ships of the Royal Navy DGing the French units on the North bank, and exploitation Cav/Motorised units (particularly the Staffordshire yeomanry), being able to rush along the coastal road to dislodge the token garrison in Damour. Thanks to a double turn, the Australians were able to rush forces up to beisege Beirut and block both the costal road from Tripoli (the one leading off-board), and the inland road leading to Rayak airbase.The French rushed mobile reserves from Damascus and the central valley to try to hold the British back, but by that time, it was too late - the British blocking force. entrenched in the hills, was too tough to dislodge, and even dropping all their rebuilds in Tripoli couldn't stop the Aussies from being able to strom Beirut before the relief force got through. I feel that, even if the French were able to push the British back from Beirut, they had diverted so many resources from other fronts that a breakthrough would have been highly likely, especially in the central valley, where 2 British brigades faced a lone poor-quality French Regiment. Further, with the withdrawal of the French Armoured reserves (the 7th Chaussers), and thier motorized resrves from Damascus to deal with a threat on the coast, I feel there was a good shot for the Free French and Indians to be able to storm across the El-awad and take Damascus.

I've learnnd a couple of things

- firstly, the Vichy really need to defend in depth. Armoured units, even if they have stupidly high STR, simply don't belong on the front lines in a static defence role, and the lack of a decent blocking reserve meant that once the British were able to crack my defensive line, my entire flank could become unstable and isolated very quickly..
- Artillery/Naval bombardment/airpower is insane. The ability to succesfully get an attack through rests on DGing the defending unit, and a good Artillery barrage is very very expensive in terms of supply!
-Terrain helps, but it doesn't do much against pure force of numbers/firepower - The various rivers along the coast were nuisances, but the British were ultimately able to get past them just by throwing entire Brigades of Australians and several thousand tons of ammunition at them. In contrast, the British offensive was severely stalled betweeen turns 2-6 because French air superiority kept DG ing my attacking units.
- TQ is really improtant. The difference between throwing a TQ 3 and a TQ 2 into the fight might not sound like much, but they decide battles. Having a TQ edge seriously icnreases the hcance of the surprise roll going your way, and the surprise can really make or break an offensive.
- Even in a supply/manuever game, attrition is vital - I feel that the British won through sheer attrition - they would launch stupidly high odd attacks after spending tons and tons of supplies to make sure the French took losses while they didn't. This could have ended up biting them in the rear end. However, the French army was in a far worse state than the Brits were - and even though they had ample supply, the Vichy couldn't get enough units gathered for any serious counterattack on the far more numerous British. without taking unacceptable casualties in return.#

On the whole, I realy like OCS - it's fiddly, it's complicated, but I think it makes things interesting - you can't just keep pushing on and on and on and on until your enemy army is dead like you can in other wargames. If pure force/TQ was the only thing that mattered in OCS, this would be a bet-the-house-and-pension on a British victory, but the supply problems the Brits face make this outcome far from a certainty.
No photos - I'm a klutz, and I'm too much of a cheap bastard to buy platinum.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 23:29

Dr. Lunchables: Dec 27, 2012; IRL DEBUFFED KOBOLD

tomdidiot posted:

No photos - I'm a klutz, and I'm too much of a cheap bastard to buy platinum.

you dont need plat to post a photo :ssh:

# ? Mar 1, 2015 23:55

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

I know this is only tangentially related to wargaming, but...
I'm working on a web application right now that will serve as a sort of "ASL Atlas" (in fact, that's what I'm calling it). There's ~1000 scenarios out there for ASL, with official and unofficial publications combined - it can be really daunting if you're a fan of a certain area and want to play more from it. Say you're really into the PTO, and want to play out more battles in Peleliu or Pavuvu or whatever - where do you start? What scenarios are there available? I thought it'd be cool to have a map, and be able to zoom into regions and visually see what's available. But holy poo poo is it time consuming looking up lats/longs for all these locations, especially when some don't even exist anymore :negative:

Right now I've only got Beyond Valor/Paratrooper/Yanks/Partisan/SK1/SK2/SK3/SK Bonus Pack/SK Expansion Pack/Decision at Elst put in right now. That's... barely the tip of the iceberg. (In the screenshots I only have BV/Para/Yanks/Partisan put in)

Anyway, I thought it was a cool idea and thought I'd gauge interest. If people might be interested in it, I'll keep chugging along, but if I'm just chasing a sperg-level fever dream, I might stop (but probably not).

# ? Mar 2, 2015 04:03

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

COOL CORN posted:

I may never play ASL in my life, but this is a cool idea.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 08:29

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

Can you give me some recomendations for a good, in print, solo wargame? I'm going to take a break from reinventing the wheel each time I play Fields of Fire. Preferably with a theme other than WWII, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Cruel Necessity or other games on that series don't really interest me, it looks like the best way of playng unles you want to handicap yourself is to disregard the tracks completely and focus on the armies.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 10:56

Zveroboy: Apr 17, 2007; If you take those sheep again I will bury this fucking axe in your skull.

As much as I like playing solo games of Agricola, I suddenly fancy a solitaire (that can maybe play with 2, my father might be interested in learning one with me) wargame that I spend a whole evening (or several) pouring over. I've always been a keen reader of military history, mainly WW2 onwards, with most of my literature focusing on armoured or nuclear warfare.

I've been looking at A Distant Plain and Labyrinth: The War on Terror, are the COIN games a good way to start off?

I guess I'm asking mainly the same question as Fat Samurai.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 11:29

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

COIN can be good, don't buy Labyrinth.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 14:33

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

Tekopo posted:

COIN can be good, don't buy Labyrinth.

I was under the impression that most of the fun in the COIN games came from the negotiation with the other players, and that the AI rules were there just in case there was a missing player or something.

_{_{I don't want to come dead last in a solo game}}

# ? Mar 2, 2015 14:57

Zveroboy: Apr 17, 2007; If you take those sheep again I will bury this fucking axe in your skull.

Tekopo posted:

COIN can be good, don't buy Labyrinth.

Fire in the Lake or A Distant Plain both appeal as far as which wars they represent, work is quiet today so I have some time to read some reviews about each one. I notice that both games have several factions, when playing solitaire can you play as any of those factions?

# ? Mar 2, 2015 14:59

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

I say 'can' because yes, COIN are indeed better non solo. To be honest, the best solo wargame I played so far is Navajo Wars. I can't quite remember, but I think AA doesn't allow you to play as anything but the government solo, i think all the other ones have fairly robust rules to play as any faction.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 15:04

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Zveroboy posted:

Fire in the Lake or A Distant Plain both appeal as far as which wars they represent, work is quiet today so I have some time to read some reviews about each one. I notice that both games have several factions, when playing solitaire can you play as any of those factions?

Fat Samurai posted:

I was under the impression that most of the fun in the COIN games came from the negotiation with the other players, and that the AI rules were there just in case there was a missing player or something.

_{_{I don't want to come dead last in a solo game}}

COIN solo play isn't as satisfying as multiplayer but it's still pretty fun IMHO, I've been soloing the Vassal modules when I'm on the bus or something. AA doesn't have govenment solitaire rules, and CL/ADP are really only designed to be soloed as Government/M26 or Coalition/Taliban (for example I think AI M26 will trigger DR events just to gently caress over the government.) FITL is designed for any human player.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 15:14

wins32767: Mar 16, 2007

tomdidiot posted:

I just played a solo game of Reluctant Enemies. Won by the Brits on Turn 10 when the Australian 21st Brigade stormed Beirut. The Brits were pretty much at the end of their logistical capabilities - they burned their last bit of supply on the Haifa-Sidon-Beiru axis on their final attack

Great write up. Was this one of your first plays of OCS? From the sounds of it, you were a bit too passive with the French. As you saw, attackers can cause massive attrition on defenders by constantly doing attacks, but a good defender is going to counterattack hard to keep them honest. If the Brits were running that low on supply, forcing them to burn it on defense means they aren't able to keep pushing. If you can make your opponent go low, it takes a ton of supply to replenish. Also, the Brits also don't have nearly enough men to cover their open flanks in the middle of the map. With some advanced planning, it's very easy for the French to punish a British player who keeps too many troops forward by cutting them all off, especially if they have plenty of supply and are aggressive with their trucks.

It also sounds like you didn't leverage reserve mode enough. IIRC, the naval barrages happen with the air barrages at the end of the movement phase. A reserve mode unit can release and move onto the stack at full strength forcing the Brits to fire supply sucking arty if they want a full DG. Given the action rating differential in favor of the French, having small stacks in the front isn't that risky since the Brits have a limited ability to overrun. You can also use reserve markers to launch counterattacks in the reaction phase, giving you 3 moves before the opponent can react with anything but his own reserves.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 15:42

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

AIs for the other factions in AA/CL have been made, they might only be available from a magazine or after the reprints though?

DVG's Leader games are another standard solo recommendation.

Has anybody tried Fleet Commander Nimitz (also from DVG)?

# ? Mar 2, 2015 16:46

Foehammer: Nov 8, 2005; We are invincible.

rchandra posted:

AIs for the other factions in AA/CL have been made, they might only be available from a magazine or after the reprints though?

DVG's Leader games are another standard solo recommendation.

Has anybody tried Fleet Commander Nimitz (also from DVG)?

I read this review of it the other day: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/fleet-commander-nimitz-boardgame-review.htm

Sounded like it required a LOT of chit-stacking.

e: To elaborate, I dislike that because it makes it harder to keep track of what's going on, as well as requiring the game to remain set-up. Thunderbolt Apache Leader lends itself much more to 30-45 minute play sessions, and the game state can be saved by snapping a quick pic of the 5-10 chits on the battalion movement bands and packing it away.

Foehammer fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Mar 2, 2015

# ? Mar 2, 2015 17:01

Morholt: Mar 18, 2006; Contrary to popular belief, tic-tac-toe isn't purely a game of chance.

Welp, I read the Combat Commander Chat as I was going to the game store and I have bad impulse control it turns out:

I notice that it's not the most recent printing though. Are there any differences in the new edition apart from the cover?

As for solo games, I always recommend The Barbarossa Campaign. It's a strategic hex and counter that manages to have an entirely rules driven opponent, and works well. It does have terrible components and there's a bunch of busywork in the form of flipping over counters and moving around chits each turn.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 19:35

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

There are only cosmetic differences between the versions of CC and they're just stuff like card thickness and which maps share a front and back on the sheets.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 20:18

SavageMessiah: Jan 28, 2009; Emotionally drained and spookified; Toilet Rascal

They updated the rulebook in one of the printings, don't know which one though.

Also, CC chat has triggered my poor impulse control as well. I bought all the available scenario packs, now I have a poo poo ton more scenarios to pine over and not get a chance to play :downsgun:

# ? Mar 3, 2015 00:27

tomdidiot: Apr 23, 2014; Stupid Grognard

wins32767 posted:

Great write up. Was this one of your first plays of OCS? From the sounds of it, you were a bit too passive with the French. As you saw, attackers can cause massive attrition on defenders by constantly doing attacks, but a good defender is going to counterattack hard to keep them honest. If the Brits were running that low on supply, forcing them to burn it on defense means they aren't able to keep pushing. If you can make your opponent go low, it takes a ton of supply to replenish. Also, the Brits also don't have nearly enough men to cover their open flanks in the middle of the map. With some advanced planning, it's very easy for the French to punish a British player who keeps too many troops forward by cutting them all off, especially if they have plenty of supply and are aggressive with their trucks.

It also sounds like you didn't leverage reserve mode enough. IIRC, the naval barrages happen with the air barrages at the end of the movement phase. A reserve mode unit can release and move onto the stack at full strength forcing the Brits to fire supply sucking arty if they want a full DG. Given the action rating differential in favor of the French, having small stacks in the front isn't that risky since the Brits have a limited ability to overrun. You can also use reserve markers to launch counterattacks in the reaction phase, giving you 3 moves before the opponent can react with anything but his own reserves.

Yup, this was my first full playthrough of OCS (I had a learning game with Tekopo a couple of months ago). I'm pretty sure I missed a lot of rules as well. Where in the middle of the map is it possible to cut the British off? Are you talking about the open desert between Damascus and the Syrian-Palestine border, or are you talking about the Hasbani river valley, which threatens the British advance up the centre? I think neither came into play in my game because I decided very early on to withdraw to the El Awaj line, figuring it wouldn't be worth defending against a numerically and qualitatively superior enemy (The 5th Indian Birgade, and its numerous AR 4 units are quite potent) 0 I might try holdign the line in the desert next time and force the Brits to burn even more supplies on the eastern push. I'm also not really sure about what you're saying about the AR differential in favour of the French - apart from the Senegalese, the big Brit Battallions (the ones they want to get involvedi n combat) are universally 3s, with a few 4s sprinkled in (going up to 4s as the game goes along as the British 6th Division trickles in + the Australians upgrade). I've found the sam thing with the French - obvisouly as the game goes along, the AR balance will tip in favour of the British, but I'm not sure I'd ever say the AR seemed to ever favour the French. The Brits also seem to have a limted ability to overrun anyway - the only units that can do it are the lovely Australian Divisional Cavalry units (weak and easily picked off on the defensive), The mounted Yeomanry (potent, especially with their AR4, but relatively slow), and their big battalions in move mode (expensive in terms of fuel, and still relatively low strength).

I'll try mucking around with reserves a bit more - I'll agree that they're very powerful ( a lot of the huge British exploitations of their succesful attacks came from unleashing highly mobile reserves, like the horse cavalry, after causing a breach), and I should have been more proactive with French reserves, especially on the Beirut road (that might have also been related to not assigning enough troops to the Beirut road in the first place) - dropping in a fresh unit after a british DG would probably have bought the French several more turns, though what I've found as the Brits is, especially on the Beirut road, you start by bombing the Front line units, and, if you get a DG, you use your ships to bombard the Frenc units in reserve mode behind the line instead, as you don't suffer from spotting penalties. You also mentioned something about counterattacking with reserves - I'm not really sure how you can manage that with this game - as far as I know, the only way you seem to be able to coutnerattack with reserves during an opponent's turn is with an overrrun, and the 2 French tank battallions - and maybe, maybe the French FFLs in move mode,

# ? Mar 3, 2015 01:35

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

SavageMessiah posted:

They updated the rulebook in one of the printings, don't know which one though.

Also, CC chat has triggered my poor impulse control as well. I bought all the available scenario packs, now I have a poo poo ton more scenarios to pine over and not get a chance to play

It was the second printing, which has the new cover and the drat side nubs on the counters. The v1.1 rulebook only has a couple very minor corrections.

The new coverillustration was MacGowan's original draft for the Up Front cover art. Avalon Hill told them he needed to put Germans on the cover because they're popular. So he made the ridiculous SS soldier cover thinking it would be rejected, but they loved it and used it.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 03:01

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

cenotaph posted:

Up Front

Is there any hope that a remake/reprint will ever happen? I read about the KS drama but I never found info on who actually owns the rights to it. I remember playing it as a kid but gently caress paying ebay prices for an old copy.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 03:15

AARP LARPer: Feb 19, 2005; THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR; Buglord

AARP LARPer fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jan 23, 2016

# ? Mar 3, 2015 03:58

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

bunnielab posted:

Is there any hope that a remake/reprint will ever happen? I read about the KS drama but I never found info on who actually owns the rights to it. I remember playing it as a kid but gently caress paying ebay prices for an old copy.

Just play the Vassal mod or get the fan redesign when there's an Artscow sale, which is what I did. I was pretty high on the game for a few months recently but then I had a two and a half hour game where neither me nor my opponent could draw anything we needed. When it's good it's really good and when it's bad it's grueling.

Do Not Resuscitate posted:

God, Up Front has been threatened to be rereleased as far back in time that they were gonna call it Up Front 2000. I remember seeing reworked artwork at the time too.

And it was going to be collectible.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 04:52

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

cenotaph posted:

Just play the Vassal mod or get the fan redesign when there's an Artscow sale, which is what I did. I was pretty high on the game for a few months recently but then I had a two and a half hour game where neither me nor my opponent could draw anything we needed. When it's good it's really good and when it's bad it's grueling.

It looks like the links are dead, I assume Artcow is a card printing site?

I don't remember any of the game play, I just remember cards and WWII. Still want a copy though. I am making some inroads with a few friends but I need a more simple game to lure them with. OGRE is working so far but the pocket edition is small and fussy and the DE is a monster to transport.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 05:20

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

bunnielab posted:

OGRE is working so far but the pocket edition is small and fussy and the DE is a monster to transport.

I didn't have much luck finding a great box for everything, but you can put enough counters for most of the scenarios into a sewing kit / Plano box. I have most or all of the Combine and standard Paneuro counters, the 1-hex terrain, one 3-D Mk-III and CP, some flat Ogre counters, and an assortment of miscellaneous counters in something like a 7 x 10.5 x 2 inch box. The Ogre map, map G1, and the rules/scenario books fit into a box for a motherboard, along with a rack of poker chips for other games and Ogre treads/weapons. I haven't gotten anything other than the base scenarios played though so I might have missed some important pieces.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 06:14

cenotaph: Mar 2, 2013

bunnielab posted:

It looks like the links are dead, I assume Artcow is a card printing site?

I don't remember any of the game play, I just remember cards and WWII. Still want a copy though. I am making some inroads with a few friends but I need a more simple game to lure them with. OGRE is working so far but the pocket edition is small and fussy and the DE is a monster to transport.

Hmm, didn't notice that before I posted it. Yeah, artscow is one of those Chinese POD sites. Looks like the second drop box link in a later post still works if you want a pdf of the deck to print out. Up Front isn't exactly simple, though. It's got a lot of fiddly rules and really shows its 80s design sensibilities in some places. I haven't even used the vehicle rules, mostly because of my opinions about vehicles in small scale games but the rules are supposedly a bit more complex as well. The basic game flow is pretty good but then you decide you want to enter close combat and suddenly it's ten poorly phrased paragraphs about drawing cards and checking if numbers are high or low and red or black with no rhyme or reason to what you should be looking for and when.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 06:25

AARP LARPer: Feb 19, 2005; THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR; Buglord

AARP LARPer fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jan 23, 2016

# ? Mar 3, 2015 06:40

Zveroboy: Apr 17, 2007; If you take those sheep again I will bury this fucking axe in your skull.

After reading up a bit more, The Hunters: german U-Boats at War seems to tick all the boxes I want. Any goon opinions on it before I pull the trigger?

# ? Mar 3, 2015 10:18

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

Zveroboy posted:

After reading up a bit more, The Hunters: german U-Boats at War seems to tick all the boxes I want. Any goon opinions on it before I pull the trigger?

I think it's fun. It's very simulationy and can have some really tense moments.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 12:27

Lichtenstein: May 31, 2012; It'll make sense, eventually.

Just bear in mind it's a "roll a lot of dice and watch little stories play out" kind of game. It's cool at what it does, but don't expect any sort of intelectual challenge.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 13:46

bongwizzard: May 19, 2005; Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"; Grimey Drawer

rchandra posted:

I didn't have much luck finding a great box for everything, but you can put enough counters for most of the scenarios into a sewing kit / Plano box. I have most or all of the Combine and standard Paneuro counters, the 1-hex terrain, one 3-D Mk-III and CP, some flat Ogre counters, and an assortment of miscellaneous counters in something like a 7 x 10.5 x 2 inch box. The Ogre map, map G1, and the rules/scenario books fit into a box for a motherboard, along with a rack of poker chips for other games and Ogre treads/weapons. I haven't gotten anything other than the base scenarios played though so I might have missed some important pieces.

I have already busted the flat counters out into plano cases. I am going to buy a box for the game boards themselves. The 3D Ogres pose a bit of a problem though. I am kinda thinking about tying to trade them for a pile of the flat ogres. The 3D stuff is cute and a hoot to put together but it makes the game more of a pain to play and store. Also I am a weirdo and the scale being so far of drives me nuts.

cenotaph posted:

Hmm, didn't notice that before I posted it. Yeah, artscow is one of those Chinese POD sites. Looks like the second drop box link in a later post still works if you want a pdf of the deck to print out. Up Front isn't exactly simple, though. It's got a lot of fiddly rules and really shows its 80s design sensibilities in some places. I haven't even used the vehicle rules, mostly because of my opinions about vehicles in small scale games but the rules are supposedly a bit more complex as well. The basic game flow is pretty good but then you decide you want to enter close combat and suddenly it's ten poorly phrased paragraphs about drawing cards and checking if numbers are high or low and red or black with no rhyme or reason to what you should be looking for and when.

That's too bad. I am glad I didnt impulse buy one on ebay though.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 02:05

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

COOL CORN posted:

I know this is only tangentially related to wargaming, but...
I'm working on a web application right now that will serve as a sort of "ASL Atlas" (in fact, that's what I'm calling it). There's ~1000 scenarios out there for ASL, with official and unofficial publications combined - it can be really daunting if you're a fan of a certain area and want to play more from it. Say you're really into the PTO, and want to play out more battles in Peleliu or Pavuvu or whatever - where do you start? What scenarios are there available? I thought it'd be cool to have a map, and be able to zoom into regions and visually see what's available. But holy poo poo is it time consuming looking up lats/longs for all these locations, especially when some don't even exist anymore

Right now I've only got Beyond Valor/Paratrooper/Yanks/Partisan/SK1/SK2/SK3/SK Bonus Pack/SK Expansion Pack/Decision at Elst put in right now. That's... barely the tip of the iceberg. (In the screenshots I only have BV/Para/Yanks/Partisan put in)

Anyway, I thought it was a cool idea and thought I'd gauge interest. If people might be interested in it, I'll keep chugging along, but if I'm just chasing a sperg-level fever dream, I might stop (but probably not).

I've... I've created something... :negative:

http://104.236.204.197/

Somebody send help I can't feel my wrists from entering 100+ scenarios worth of information and lat/lng coordinates

# ? Mar 4, 2015 05:56

Morholt: Mar 18, 2006; Contrary to popular belief, tic-tac-toe isn't purely a game of chance.

Several hours later, all sorted and shorn of their umbilical corner fluff. Now to set up a scenario..

# ? Mar 4, 2015 15:45

wins32767: Mar 16, 2007

tomdidiot posted:

Yup, this was my first full playthrough of OCS (I had a learning game with Tekopo a couple of months ago). I'm pretty sure I missed a lot of rules as well. Where in the middle of the map is it possible to cut the British off? Are you talking about the open desert between Damascus and the Syrian-Palestine border, or are you talking about the Hasbani river valley, which threatens the British advance up the centre? I think neither came into play in my game because I decided very early on to withdraw to the El Awaj line, figuring it wouldn't be worth defending against a numerically and qualitatively superior enemy (The 5th Indian Birgade, and its numerous AR 4 units are quite potent) 0 I might try holdign the line in the desert next time and force the Brits to burn even more supplies on the eastern push. I'm also not really sure about what you're saying about the AR differential in favour of the French - apart from the Senegalese, the big Brit Battallions (the ones they want to get involvedi n combat) are universally 3s, with a few 4s sprinkled in (going up to 4s as the game goes along as the British 6th Division trickles in + the Australians upgrade). I've found the sam thing with the French - obvisouly as the game goes along, the AR balance will tip in favour of the British, but I'm not sure I'd ever say the AR seemed to ever favour the French. The Brits also seem to have a limted ability to overrun anyway - the only units that can do it are the lovely Australian Divisional Cavalry units (weak and easily picked off on the defensive), The mounted Yeomanry (potent, especially with their AR4, but relatively slow), and their big battalions in move mode (expensive in terms of fuel, and still relatively low strength).

The desert is slightly harder to threaten to cut supply lines, but Derna is the key hex there. If you have forces that can sally forth as the Brits come up to the river line you can get around behind them and sit on their rail line or pop their HQ. For the middle, if the French can come down off the Golan, they can cut the Brits that are advancing up the Hasbani river valley, but they can also fairly easily drive to the coast along the tracks or roads. At first blush the Golan is a pretty solid terrain feature, but there are 4 hexes the Brits need to cover north of the Sea of Galilee and several south to prevent the French from just moving through. Starting to move in the reaction phase gets you 175% of your movement by the end of your exploit phase so the armored cars and motorized infantry can basically cross the map on roads. The last game I played as the French I took Hafia on turn 6 or 7 by using repeated overruns to blow up light screening forces starting in my reaction phase. AR advantage is HUGE on overruns. I took some bad losses, but my opponent had his supply in the back (mostly in Hafia or with his HQ that got blown up) and so he wasn't able to gas up enough units to clear me off of his supply lines. In order to protect against that kind of move, you really need to keep a solid reaction force with good mobility in your rear (and on a dump) since you just won't have the men to cover all the approaches. Needing to keep 2-3 fast units (with at least a 4 AR) off the line in addition to the 3-4 garrison units really slows the British tempo.

A couple rules points:
Any unit that starts adjacent that has 3MP in combat mode can overrun (provided the movement cost to enter the target hex is <=3). Yes, that means leg troops can overrun across a river (at 1/2 strength). Also, did you remember the rule that the ARs with a circle around them are green and thus -1 at the start of the game? That gives the French a pretty solid edge early (especially along the coast).

quote:

I'll try mucking around with reserves a bit more - I'll agree that they're very powerful ( a lot of the huge British exploitations of their succesful attacks came from unleashing highly mobile reserves, like the horse cavalry, after causing a breach), and I should have been more proactive with French reserves, especially on the Beirut road (that might have also been related to not assigning enough troops to the Beirut road in the first place) - dropping in a fresh unit after a british DG would probably have bought the French several more turns, though what I've found as the Brits is, especially on the Beirut road, you start by bombing the Front line units, and, if you get a DG, you use your ships to bombard the Frenc units in reserve mode behind the line instead, as you don't suffer from spotting penalties. You also mentioned something about counterattacking with reserves - I'm not really sure how you can manage that with this game - as far as I know, the only way you seem to be able to coutnerattack with reserves during an opponent's turn is with an overrrun, and the 2 French tank battallions - and maybe, maybe the French FFLs in move mode,

You should probably have your French reserves in close terrain and no more than 1 RE high, that gives 2 shifts against barrage and makes it really hard for the boats to hit anything. Also, I'm also using the term reserve generally here. You usually want to have a relatively weak "crust" and many strong units behind the line either under reserve markers or not depending how many you have available. As you've seen attacking is really powerful so counterattacking on your turn with your uncommited troops against your opponents weak stack is a good way to make them pay. If they stack up too high, shell the hell out of them in your reaction phase to leverage the density shifts or go around them and cut them off. OCS really punishes being strategically passive always be ready to pounce on any weaknesses your enemy presents.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 16:29

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# ? May 17, 2024 19:35

Foehammer: Nov 8, 2005; We are invincible.

COOL CORN posted:

I'll also throw out NWS as the best place to buy ASL stuff, seconded by Gamer's Armory (which is also my local shop!)

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/

I emailed about getting some ASL stuff back in stock, and his response directed me to this notice:

The MMP product line is presently being phased out from my online store. Pre-orders are still in effect but can be cancelled if requested. The remaining items shown on the store are in very limited quantities and will be delisted once they are sold out. This change is being done to make room in my warehouse for future military miniature product lines. Thanks.

# ? Mar 4, 2015 16:55

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