neonchameleon posted:I really shouldn't bother replying to Plutonis. But. You're wrong on almost every point. Plutonis is right, not that any of you would accept it, and all this going gaga over ternary resolution and proclaiming it as making D&D obsolete is sad.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:It is a poorly designed game, but a combination of identity politics, sunk cost fallacy, and the uniquely TRPG fallacy of games whose mechanics can never be reviewed critically because "the DM can throw out any rule that's bad" which causes the quality of the game to enter into this "well our table is having fun" quantum state is what pushes it into there's-no-place-for-it territory.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:38
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gradenko_2000 posted:It is a poorly designed game, but a combination of identity politics, sunk cost fallacy, and the uniquely TRPG fallacy of games whose mechanics can never be reviewed critically because "the DM can throw out any rule that's bad" which causes the quality of the game to enter into this "well our table is having fun" quantum state is what pushes it into there's-no-place-for-it territory. This still boils down to being upset that something you don't like is popular.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:41
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Effectronica posted:Plutonis is right, not that any of you would accept it, and all this going gaga over ternary resolution and proclaiming it as making D&D obsolete is sad. I know that posting in D&D has bad effects on short term memory but you do remember he had points before that, chief?
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Mar 3, 2015 19:41
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PresidentBeard posted:This still boils down to being upset that something you don't like is popular. May god have mercy on our souls.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:42
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neonchameleon posted:And why do people compare it to improv? It isn't. The rules are actually very trad most of the time. What it has is excellent pacing. With improv RP there is a rhythm when you hand over to other players. Apocalypse World is designed such that every single roll the system calls for takes place at one of these natural handover points. This causes as little disruption in the flow of improv-RP as possible. And because of the non-binary resolution mechanics, it adds things other than a simple pass/fail outcome. Meaning that the mechanics not only minmally disrupt improv RP, they add richness, detail, and inspiration. But only where you would stop and hand over to another player. Getting that degree of pacing and variety in the resolution mechanics is not simple design either. But once again it is elegant. EDIT: Im not saying they are exactly the same because there is a huge spectrum of improvisation and with all that entails but having a randomizer in improv like dice is a commonly used tool. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 19:44
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Impermanent posted:I know that posting in D&D has bad effects on short term memory but you do remember he had points before that, chief? Who? Plutonis, the interchangeable voice of Trad Games Consensus, the man that only exists in your tiny GBS brain?
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Mar 3, 2015 19:49
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The poster you quoted, duderino. No one cares about Plutonis.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:51
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neonchameleon posted:I really shouldn't bother replying to Plutonis. But. You're wrong on almost every point.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:53
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PresidentBeard posted:This still boils down to being upset that something you don't like is popular. The other universal language of gaming.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:54
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Zurui posted:On a related note, my biggest problem with AW is that there doesn't seem to be any common pop-culture reference for the "fiction" that Baker has so tightly designed his game around. The three most commonly cited influences (Mad Max, Fallout, and Tank Girl) are so different that finding common ground can be difficult for players starting out. It's gritty like Fallout, but without the cheeky nostalgia. It's epic like Mad Max, but doesn't really support the "lone wanderer" aspect. It's gonzo like Tank Girl, but not cartoony. It's Joss Whedon's Mad Max: The TV Series, where it's actually set in and around one town so they can reuse sets and keep the budget low. PresidentBeard posted:This still boils down to being upset that something you don't like is popular. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being upset at the popularity of something that is both in itself bad and whose community is toxic for the hobby as a whole. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 19:54
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PresidentBeard posted:This still boils down to being upset that something you don't like is popular. This is where I justify it on grounds that the other side does it too
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Mar 3, 2015 19:55
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Effectronica posted:Who? Plutonis, the interchangeable voice of Trad Games Consensus, the man that only exists in your tiny GBS brain? On topic, my weekly group just started Iron Kingdoms, and the players decided that they wanted to participate in a resistance movement. (Helpfully there already exists a place in the setting for this.) Considering the dour history of resistance movements this was just a bit surprising, but after reading up on things like the French Resistance during WW2 I should have some direction in which to take things.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:56
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Stop replying to the Imp Zone shitposters, you idiots.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:58
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Literally this thread right now http://youtu.be/dEGJ651Bwsc?t=2m0s
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Mar 3, 2015 19:58
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NGDBSS posted:Now you're just being disingenuous. The Llael resistance is a weird story space, since yeah it's a little bit "What if the French Resistance and the French Revolution happened at the same time." So you've got grim stories of fighting off foreign occupiers and dashing vigilantes who play the part of collaborators by day but rescue nobles and smuggle them to the resistance by night." So you've got to really make sure everyone's on board with what tone's being aimed for.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:07
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I miss the hivemind.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:09
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Impermanent posted:If you think of your apocalypse wold games as a logical extension of the metal gear universe everything becomes clear. 
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Mar 3, 2015 20:10
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You know, I love that even here - and this is the best place I've found online to discuss trad games - there is such a genuine willingness to seek consensus, identify common ground and avoid blanket categorical statements that paint all who disagree with you in the same stark polarizing terms. Moreover the demonstrated keen appreciation of sarcasm, ability to accept gentle and affectionate mockery in stride and the steadfast refusal to declare one's chosen system to be objectively and inherently better than all others, is a refreshing change from the rest of the web. For while those places may be the fetid watering holes of the damned,TG is a oasis of tolerance and understanding, where I've never seen anyone argue that their chosen style of game play is objectively and mechanically superior to others. Certainly here, of all places, I've never seen anyone use the proclaimed superiority of their system to imply that those who prefer another RPG are emotionally stunted, immature, unsanitary, mentally deficient, unfashionable, incapable of appreciating beauty, politically retrograde, possessed of disgustingly middlebrow tastes in art, racially prejudiced or evil. TLDR; Keep up the good work friends! Also, Captain Foo posted:I used to play D&D and then I didn't, drifted towards more rules-lite systems and then found AW, which has the best mix of rules, setting, and feel that works for what I want to get out of gaming, other people might not and that's fine. I always encourage people to check out aw though because why wouldn't you want more people doing things that you think are good+cool?? This is lovely and cool and should be done more often. And (specifically not in reference to you) It just sucks that half the time it takes on the aspect of a fan of modern sports cars going to a classic car show and crapping all over the vintage rides. They get it, you like fuel injection, it doesn't need to be brought up in every single loving discussion of carburetors. On topic, I'm trying Far Away Land, Fiasco, Kemet and Ventura in March and will actually be playing in someone else's DCC and 5E games. I'm very happy about this. P.S. Since I've resolved not to derail/crap in the Next thread anymore myself, a quick shout out to Laphroaig for the second sweetest backhanded compliment I've ever gotten on the forums. Thanks! Free Electrum forever!
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Mar 3, 2015 20:11
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I hate it when the family fights  . We're goons! We paid money to be here! We have standards! Let's act like it!Speaking of war-fighting, I've been wondering how to represent enemies in physical conflict in games, and I'm wondering if part of the problem of absurdly long fights is that most such combat heavy games like to stat out the opposition as individuals. Like, that old classic about "40 Kobolds in playtesting of D&D 5e" is an obvious example. 40 individual enemies is obviously way too many for a person to handle without computer assistance. But if you statted it out as "Kobold Platoon Command", "Kobold Section A, B, C," and "Kobold Magic and Effects Squad", that seems a lot easier to visualize and manage. D&D started out as a wargame, why not use those roots to make things simpler? They already do it with horde enemies; standardize it to apply to any enemy, or at least smaller ones. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 20:15
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My biggest problem with PbtA games is none of the major ones draw me in that much. I'm not interested in Monster Hearts' premise. Dungeon World is "ok" and I'd probably try playing it, but overall is too much like D&D in various ways, IMO.Apocalypse World is the one I'd be most interested in playing, but I'm completely apathetic towards the post-apoc aesthetic. Then there is the various smaller PbtA games/hacks, but a lot of the build off of Dungeon World's style of PbtA. WWWrpg is the first one that's really grabbed me. Then again, I have basically no actual play experience with PbtA games aside from one in-ring match of a failed WWWrpg PbP game, so maybd I don't really know what I want. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 20:16
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Stop replying to the Imp Zone shitposters, you idiots. If this thread were more like the Imp Zone one it would have people tall about their hella cool Exalted characters instead of making bad posts defending *World.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:17
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Gau posted:I miss the hivemind. The hivemind hated you after all the kickstarter drama, so maybe it's for the best? Glorified Scrivener posted:You know, I love that even here - and this is the best place I've found online to discuss trad games - there is such a genuine willingness to seek consensus, identify common ground and avoid blanket categorical statements that paint all who disagree with you in the same stark polarizing terms. Same.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:19
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That Pathfinder post was terrible, butLemon Curdistan posted:Stop replying to the Imp Zone shitposters, you idiots.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:21
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Galaga Galaxian posted:My biggest problem with PbtA games is none of the major ones draw me in that much. I'm not interested in Monster Hearts' premise. Dungeon World is "ok" and I'd probably try playing it, but overall is too much like D&D in various ways, IMO.Apocalypse World is the one I'd be most interested in playing, but I'm completely apathetic towards the post-apoc aesthetic. It's pretty easy to convert straight AW to fantasy without turning it into DW - I think LemonCurdistan posted a thing in the AW thread that effectively did it in a single post e: Lemon Curdistan posted:THE BARBARIAN (Gunlugger)
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Mar 3, 2015 20:22
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Captain Foo posted:It's pretty easy to convert straight AW to fantasy without turning it into DW - I think LemonCurdistan posted a thing in the AW thread that effectively did it in a single post With the caveat that the game will literally just be AW but with horses instead of cars and swords instead of guns, you can do this: Lemon Curdistan posted:THE BARBARIAN (Gunlugger) Use Fists of Asphalt as a starting point for melee weapons/styles if you want.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:24
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:If this thread were more like the Imp Zone one it would have people tall about their hella cool Exalted characters instead of making bad posts defending *World.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:27
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The first person to do a proper Trek World that actually replicates the themes of the show and isn't just Dungeon World With Phasers will have all of my disposable income.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:27
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I still think you should call the fantasy Gunlugger the Swordlugger.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:28
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Evil Mastermind posted:I still think you should call the fantasy Gunlugger the Swordlugger. You could do this
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Mar 3, 2015 20:29
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Evil Mastermind posted:I still think you should call the fantasy Gunlugger the Swordlugger. That sounds like an alternate name for someone who uses a FFVII styled giant sword.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:29
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My biggest problem with AW is that it really killed my tolerance for crunch in elfgames. Like, I sometimes get tired of lighter storygames and want to play something different, but when I sit down to stat up some NPCs I immediately go eh...
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Mar 3, 2015 20:31
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DigitalRaven posted:Welcome to tradgames, where our universal language is uncritical acceptance of conservative expansionist imperialism with a side of celebrating the Great Man theory of history. This is why GiP is more fun.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:32
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So while talking with a friend about 13th Age, we got on the subject of D&D-alikes and they mentioned one I've never heard of: Fantasycraft. They described it as "D&D but with more cool stuff and fighter-types get nice things", which is always a neat idea in my mind. I was wondering you folks thought it would be worth picking up even if only to pick apart for its ideas.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:34
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:hella cool Exalted characters There's no such thing, though.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:37
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Serf posted:So while talking with a friend about 13th Age, we got on the subject of D&D-alikes and they mentioned one I've never heard of: Fantasycraft. They described it as "D&D but with more cool stuff and fighter-types get nice things", which is always a neat idea in my mind. I was wondering you folks thought it would be worth picking up even if only to pick apart for its ideas.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:39
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Serf posted:So while talking with a friend about 13th Age, we got on the subject of D&D-alikes and they mentioned one I've never heard of: Fantasycraft. They described it as "D&D but with more cool stuff and fighter-types get nice things", which is always a neat idea in my mind. I was wondering you folks thought it would be worth picking up even if only to pick apart for its ideas. the main thing I remember about fantasycraft is that it made D&D look rules-lite
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Mar 3, 2015 20:39
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Okay so think 3.5. Now imagine if you put together a team of competent engineers and technical writers, and told them to rewrite it to be fair and cool. What I'm saying is, it's thick and dense and has a lot of mechanics.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:40
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Lichtenstein posted:My biggest problem with AW is that it really killed my tolerance for crunch in elfgames. Like, I sometimes get tired of lighter storygames and want to play something different, but when I sit down to stat up some NPCs I immediately go eh... Forever this. It helps that ptba games are basically a godsend for lazy GMs like myself who like to do things on the fly.
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Mar 3, 2015 20:43
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Siivola posted:Okay so think 3.5. Now imagine if you put together a team of competent engineers and technical writers, and told them to rewrite it to be fair and cool. With the addendum that, if you like that much crunch, it is a good game.
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