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Bioshock 2's gameplay was significantly more fun and built on the themes of the original pretty well while also adding a schlockyness that I quite liked (now we're going to do Bioshock, but with altruism instead of objectivism! Also now there are big sisters!), but players were so used to parading the original as smart storytelling or amazing game design that these changes weren't appreciated. The story is formally 'worse' but in ways that are themselves entertaining. That and I just have a thing for sequels that do weird things with the original material, my favourite film ever is Gremlin 2 so there we go. The game has a lot to say about Kantian ethics, or at least how humans generally relate to ethics. It concludes that while you can't or shouldn't reduce people to machines, a society can improve itself by making proper thinking about one's actions more accessible, and therefore 'inherent' to its members. Lamb dreams of reducing humans to AIs programmed to make the 'ethical' choice, and in a small sense she is right - you're only really an ethical person if you do the right thing even if it means no personal reward, or even negative consequences for yourself. her failure is she thinks a single human can be made to embody a utopian ideal, when the 'greater good' is an emergent property of people communicating with one another, and having the ability to decide what is moral through free thought. I like that while the endings of the first game are about what sort of person you have turned yourself into over your journey, the sequel's endings are about the effect your actions have on other people's own thought processes. If you kill people needlessly for points, your sister learns from your actions and sees no purpose in forgiveness, and allows her mother to die. The good ending is about how forgiveness and love are good things in a totally honest and noncynical fashion and that's a ridiculously good ending for a story that focuses on how trapped characters (and players) can become in their own worldview and on blaming others. The recurring themes of family and different inter-relationships alone elevate the Bioshock games to way more than the sum of their parts. I need to replay infinite because I bet there's good stuff in there beside all the boring mind-numbing cop-killing. Jesus christ the gameplay was a backward step from 2.
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Mar 3, 2015 23:24
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I feel as though I might like Maroon 5 songs if they had a different singer. "This Love" wasn't a bad song, nor was "She Will Be Loved" (though it was boring) nor "Misery". But since "Moves Like Jagger" and (especially) "Payphone" I've found Adam Levine's voice on record to be genuinely unpleasant to listen to.
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Mar 3, 2015 23:27
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I think the bigger problem with Bioshock Infinite is that the fight between the Vox VS the Founders is a bigger part of the story than it should be. The true core to Infinite's story was Comstock and Dewit. Spoilered for your protection. I think what the game wanted to focus more on was how Comstock/Dewit's rage and violent behavior effects the world around him. To Dewit, peaceful decisions are not an option. For example, take the raffle at the start of the game. Your choices are to either throw the baseball at the interracial couple or at the guy running the raffle. You don't get the option to just put the ball back or even pretend to miss. His answer to every problem is to leave a corpse. When Dewit becomes Comstock in another timeline, He becomes a man of god but his behavior doesn't change. Even though he becomes a holy man, doesn't drink or gamble, his answer for everything is still to rack up a body count and that it's god's will that his enemies die. And everyone that followed him learned that violent streak as well. I think at the end of the day Ken Levine had little interest in actually crafting a story that looked at everything wrong with Americana and instead wanted to tell a story of two violent men and how their actions shape the world around them. They just picked the setting of Columbia because they thought it looked cool and for whatever reason, the fight between The Vox and the founders took center stage. Didn't someone say their were major rewrites to the story late in development? BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 02:24
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Are there any video games with moral choice systems where the "good" side isn't the right side?
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Mar 4, 2015 02:25
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Mraagvpeine posted:Are there any video games with moral choice systems where the "good" side isn't the right side? Uhhhhh.. in Dragon Age 1, if you choose the immoral, violent dwarf to be king, it leads to a much happier result than the honorable, kind dude.
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Mar 4, 2015 02:31
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Mraagvpeine posted:Are there any video games with moral choice systems where the "good" side isn't the right side? These are mostly games that tie more into the definition of chaos vs. Order. Tactics Ogre on PSP has you make a major choice in the beginning: 1) Help massacre your own village to start fake patriotism or 2) Don't help and defy. Number 1 is the Order path, while Number 2 is the Chaos path.
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Mar 4, 2015 02:37
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Wheat Loaf posted:I feel as though I might like Maroon 5 songs if they had a different singer. "This Love" wasn't a bad song, nor was "She Will Be Loved" (though it was boring) nor "Misery". Harder to Breathe and Makes Me Wonder are both pretty good tunes, and would be even better without Human Recorder Adam Levine.
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Mar 4, 2015 02:38
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Mraagvpeine posted:Are there any video games with moral choice systems where the "good" side isn't the right side? KOTOR2?
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Mar 4, 2015 02:40
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DStecks posted:KOTOR2? Maybe more in the sense that the people who claim to be the good guys don't necessarily know what they are doing.
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Mar 4, 2015 02:45
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BigRed0427 posted:I think the bigger problem with Bioshock Infinite is that the fight between the Vox VS the Founders is a bigger part of the story than it should be. The true core to Infinite's story was Comstock and Dewit. The biggest problem is they took at least three different drafts of the same game and welded them together with a parallel universe premise. Considering how hosed the development was, it was probably the smart move though.
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Mar 4, 2015 02:48
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Mraagvpeine posted:Are there any video games with moral choice systems where the "good" side isn't the right side? America's Army 1-3
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Mar 4, 2015 02:49
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Human posted:Uhhhhh.. in Dragon Age 1, if you choose the immoral, violent dwarf to be king, it leads to a much happier result than the honorable, kind dude. That's more of a gray situation in the first place. The king that gets better results is the playable Dwarf Noble's brother who killed their other brother and framed you, but he's an alright guy personally and he marries the kindhearted sister of the playable Casteless Dwarf. The other dude is "honorable" but in a traditionalist piece of poo poo way.
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Mar 4, 2015 02:55
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Mraagvpeine posted:Are there any video games with moral choice systems where the "good" side isn't the right side? SMT series?
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Mar 4, 2015 03:35
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:SMT series? Order isn't really good in SMT though. Both sides are awful, with Order really being more like stasis, were nothing changes and there is no free will, and Chaos is complete anarchy where the strong always rule over the weak and there is no authority to protect those who can't protect themselves. The only "good" path in SMT is neutrality.
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Mar 4, 2015 03:39
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BigRed0427 posted:Maybe more in the sense that the people who claim to be the good guys don't necessarily know what they are doing. KOTOR 2 really nails it here I think. At one point you help somebody out and Kreia (the old grumpy grey Jedi in your party) asks why you did that. Normally as the light-side thing you say I wanted to be nice and save all the puppies and kittens in the universe and be done but her retort is that in doing so you removed his struggles and the person actually bettering himself since you just gave it all to him.
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Mar 4, 2015 03:47
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Tracula posted:KOTOR 2 really nails it here I think. At one point you help somebody out and Kreia (the old grumpy grey Jedi in your party) asks why you did that. Normally as the light-side thing you say I wanted to be nice and save all the puppies and kittens in the universe and be done but her retort is that in doing so you removed his struggles and the person actually bettering himself since you just gave it all to him. Then the guy gets mugged and killed for the credits you have him.
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Mar 4, 2015 03:49
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Meanwhile if you don't give it to him, he mugs some random other guy and Kreia yells at you anyway.
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Mar 4, 2015 03:56
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I haven't played KOTOR2 in ages, but wasn't Kreia the final boss?
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Mar 4, 2015 04:03
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Moatman posted:I haven't played KOTOR2 in ages, but wasn't Kreia the final boss? Yes she was
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Mar 4, 2015 04:06
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Moatman posted:I haven't played KOTOR2 in ages, but wasn't Kreia the final boss? Yes, because of her connection with Scion, I think. It's not super straightforward, but that's one of my favorite things about the game. It's interesting how much more memorable the second game was for me considering all of the development problems and that it was dumped off on Obsidian instead of continued by Bioware. Replaying KOTOR I keep thinking about stuff from the sequel, and I have to try a lot harder to remember things that happened in the first game.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:09
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In wacky news, Hbomber's MRA buds Jordan Owen and Davis Aurini have split! Who will make the fedora-crowd pleasing documentary The Sarkeesian Effect now?!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUHCeZHqeCU NEVAR FORGET  (Yes, these two belong here because they fancy themselves "critics"  )e: added actual link Violet_Sky fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 04:15
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FirstAidKite posted:I just thought it was a really really lazy song with bad lyrics, a boring tune, and an annoying nasally voice singing it Nonono-- it's animals-moles!  Sexy.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:30
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So Sarkeesian raises a bunch of money to make a web series, and makes a web series, so she's a scammer. These guys raise a bunch of money to make a web show to call someone who raised money to make a web series and who made one a scammer, and now they don't make the show but keep the money. How do I do that homer-brain-hurt face?
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Mar 4, 2015 04:33
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Violet_Sky posted:In wacky news, Hbomber's MRA buds Jordan Owen and Davis Aurini have split! Who will make the fedora-crowd pleasing documentary The Sarkeesian Effect now?! I read through the comments and I laughed at how many were concerned about skull custody.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:40
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WickedHate posted:Then the guy gets mugged and killed for the credits you have him. Senerio posted:Meanwhile if you don't give it to him, he mugs some random other guy and Kreia yells at you anyway. Exactly. It's not perfect but KOTOR2 actually empasizes that the universe is grey. Kreia doesn't want you to be good or evil. Interestingly if anything she's a genuine mother figure to the Exile and her whole point is that she wants you to think for yourself rather than follow any sort of rigid light/dark bullshit. TheMaestroso posted:It's interesting how much more memorable the second game was for me considering all of the development problems and that it was dumped off on Obsidian instead of continued by Bioware. Replaying KOTOR I keep thinking about stuff from the sequel, and I have to try a lot harder to remember things that happened in the first game. Obsidian.txt. Their games are jank as gently caress but somehow they tell some of the most interesting characters ever. Edit: Not saying KOTOR 1 was bad, SFdebris has an amazing playthrough of it showing how it's a really good homage to the original series but still. Tracula fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 04:43
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Mraagvpeine posted:Are there any video games with moral choice systems where the "good" side isn't the right side?
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Mar 4, 2015 05:01
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South Park Stick of Truth was so bug-free that people forgot that was Obsidian.
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Mar 4, 2015 05:04
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Mraagvpeine posted:Are there any video games with moral choice systems where the "good" side isn't the right side? That's Obsidian in general, they love to have actual shades of grey in their stories. KOTORII in general has a theme of thinking for yourself and the Jedi council are portrayed as wishy-washy and wanting to wait and see even if it means millions of people die.
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Mar 4, 2015 05:07
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achillesforever6 posted:A lot of quests in Fallout New Vegas end up like this To add to this. New Vegas has really amazing gay and lesbian party members. It's never forced on you but just kinda comes up as who they are. It doesn't ever feel token which is what matters to me.
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Mar 4, 2015 05:09
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Tracula posted:Exactly. It's not perfect but KOTOR2 actually empasizes that the universe is grey. Kreia doesn't want you to be good or evil. Interestingly if anything she's a genuine mother figure to the Exile and her whole point is that she wants you to think for yourself rather than follow any sort of rigid light/dark bullshit. Didn't you still get loot hosed if you didn't end up either light or dark side by the time you reached the end? I'll have to go back and look, but I'm pretty sure if you ended up a Grey Jedi/Sith/Whatever you once again didn't have access to the best stuff. Though I seem to remember it being better than the complete piece of poo poo armor the neutrals got just before Malak in KOTOR 1.
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Mar 4, 2015 05:09
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Going true 'grey' was still more light side than dark in KOTOR 2 if I recall correctly. I suppose I get sitting on the fence like Jolee is a bit more 'good' than being totally self absorbed though. Edit: To be fair the end of KOTOR 2 was so insanely rushed it wasn't even an ending, light or dark. Edit x2: I thought the original Infamous did a really good job making 'bad' not exactly feel like the wrong choice. It has been a lot of years since I played but I kinda got the feeling that pursuing power was a legit outcome compared to being the usual paragon bullshit. Tracula fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 05:11
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New One Hit Wonderland.
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Mar 4, 2015 05:18
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJB3BAgCW10Compendium posted:I read through the comments and I laughed at how many were concerned about skull custody. Gamergate, the gift that keeps on giving. Honest Analysis posted:I have been sitting back in the background, watching and analyzing this whole thing... and at this point, I just gotta be honest here... (hey, it's part of what I am and what I do...) quote:
quote:you should use those 35 bucks to buy a rope and hang yourself you dumb human being. autograph LMAO quote:I would have taken the money and not delivered anything. Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 05:56
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Tae posted:South Park Stick of Truth was so bug-free that people forgot that was Obsidian. They cut all the content that was buggy.
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Mar 4, 2015 06:00
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Todd briefly covered the follow-up single, "Candy", which has a fantastic music video. Fun facts about this video; it was shot with early high-definition video cameras, all the way back in 1986! It's also directed by Zbigniew Rybczyński, who won an Oscar for a short film called  Tango which you can definitely see the influence of on the Cameo video.
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Mar 4, 2015 06:25
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My favorite grey choices in KOTOR 2 are the Ithorian/Czerka and the Talia/Vaklu conflicts. General Vaklu is a very charismatic leader and a powerful ally to have, but unfortunately his second in command is in cahoots with the Sith. But Vaklu himself just wants what is best for Onderon and who can blame him? The Republic is falling apart and the planet is still recovering from the aftermath of two wars. Talia is the true leader, but she follows the word of the Jedi who haven't been making the best decisions lately and have a bad habit of bringing the life eating Nihilus down on them. The Czerka Ithorian split isn't quite as good, but it does have a nice payoff in the end. Again, the split isn't so much about good/evil, but about pragmatism/optimism. Czerka definitely have shady business practices, but so does every corporation in Star Wars. And while the supposed agenda of the Ithorians that Kreia posits never actually comes true, she makes a good point about not trusting them. Czerka is up front, they will pay you for services given. The Ithorians are a long term investment that might not even work. Again, in the postwar galaxy, can you really blame people for looking out for their own. Also, Angry Joe reviews The Order: 1886 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy6NHKDh-Mo One of his better reviews. I like Joe a lot better when he tones down the screaming and flailing. He still gets emphatic, but when he reels it in he gets a lot tighter. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 06:41
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You gain points with Kreia not by making a particular choice, but by showing you thoguht through these choices and made them for a reason. Or if you put yourself in the ebst position to make a choice, such as convincing both sides you're going to help them and betray the other side.
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Mar 4, 2015 07:36
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New musical countdown for any Bebop fans: Top 10 Musical Moments in Cowboy Bebop! This one was a lot of fun to make. 
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Mar 4, 2015 07:39
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Jay O posted:New musical countdown for any Bebop fans: Top 10 Musical Moments in Cowboy Bebop! This one was a lot of fun to make. Good, because it was really fun to watch. Man I haven't listened to the Bebop OST in forever. I had a bunch of the songs on my iPod/laptop about a decade ago but between all the upgrades and hardware failures I've just lost them and never bothered to get them back. Should probably remedy that.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:51
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Tae posted:South Park Stick of Truth was so bug-free that people forgot that was Obsidian. Honestly I'm surprised that game didn't cause more controversy. I'm all for creative freedom but watching my character being raped by alien dildos was a bit much.
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Mar 4, 2015 14:57
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