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The same Goku who literally states several times "Oh, I could have beaten (Fat and Kid) Buu but I wanted to give the young 'uns/Vegeta a chance." It also flip-flops between Kid Buu being more powerful than Super Buu or not pretty often outside of Kid Buu being a ruthless poo poo. Being Goku is overpowered, basically.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:12
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Pureauthor posted:He also completely failed to catch an earring, so there's that. Could it be Toriyama can't write for poo poo 50% of the time
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Mar 4, 2015 08:14
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I wish Toriyama, if he hated Gohan that much, just stopped trying to waste time in the manga about his training. Because it all resulted in nothing 99% of the time, with the 1% being beating Cell only after Goku made sure the world was absolutely hosed with his decision making.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:15
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Pureauthor posted:He also completely failed to catch an earring, so there's that. It's really for the best. 1) what would that fusion's name even be? goku gohan? 2) chichi would be his mother/wife and that's creepy.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:18
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Pureauthor posted:He also completely failed to catch an earring, so there's that. Goku threw the earring, so it is quite honestly probably really dangerous to catch it and it was a miracle it didn't split the planet in half.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:35
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Aurain posted:The same Goku who literally states several times "Oh, I could have beaten (Fat and Kid) Buu but I wanted to give the young 'uns/Vegeta a chance." ??? Super Buu is stronger than Fat Buu, and Goku did beat Kid Buu once he got his magical second wind. And there's literally never been any question as to if Super Buu was stronger than Kid Buu, because he was. It's basic math. He left Fat Buu to the kids because he felt it would be best (though honestly he probably wouldn't have been able to win, SS3 would have popped him back to the afterlife too fast), but he let Vegeta fight because somebody had to distract Kid Buu while he tried to concentrate. TheKingofSprings posted:Could it be Toriyama can't write for poo poo 50% of the time Actually it's because as soon as the concept of fusion was introduced everybody wanted to see Vegito. Sucks for Gohan, but Vegito was pretty cool. 
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Mar 4, 2015 08:36
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Tae posted:I wish Toriyama, if he hated Gohan that much, just stopped trying to waste time in the manga about his training. Because it all resulted in nothing 99% of the time, with the 1% being beating Cell only after Goku made sure the world was absolutely hosed with his decision making. The thing you have to understand is that after the Cell Saga, Toriyama is operating on 150% whim and all sense and structure completely breaks down. It's not that he hates Gohan per se, it's that he has no idea what the gently caress he's doing and is just flip flopping between whatever seems cool and whatever people are harassing him to do (Vegito).
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Mar 4, 2015 08:41
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Captain Oblivious posted:The thing you have to understand is that after the Cell Saga, Toriyama is operating on 150% whim and all sense and structure completely breaks down. It's not that he hates Gohan per se, it's that he has no idea what the gently caress he's doing and is just flip flopping between whatever seems cool and whatever people are harassing him to do (Vegito). Also Toei has a massive, massive Goku boner and he's the only one that can do anything ever
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Mar 4, 2015 08:46
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Pureauthor posted:He also completely failed to catch an earring, so there's that. Remember when he got drunk and deflected bullets from a gun into his wife's leg and the god of destruction's head.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:46
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Ultimate Gohan might have been the most pointless powerup in the entire series. The only reason I can give it was to power up Buu and then to make Vegito seem all the more badass.TheKingofSprings posted:Also Toei has a massive, massive Goku boner and he's the only one that can do anything ever Isn't all shonen guilty of that?
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Mar 4, 2015 08:46
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Amorphous Blob posted:Ultimate Gohan might have been the most pointless powerup in the entire series. The only reason I can give it was to power up Buu and then to make Vegito seem all the more badass. Your mistake is assuming that what happened reflects some kind of long term narrative plan.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:57
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I am fine with Gohan not being the hero of the Buu arc because nothing was going to top The Great Saiyaman anyway. I hope The Great Saiyaman is in the new movie. That would be rad. At least it looks like he's going to be pretty goofy since the only thing we know about him in the movie is that he's lost his fighting outfit, and Gohan is at his best when being goofy. All of DBZ is honestly.
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Mar 4, 2015 09:15
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Captain Oblivious posted:The thing you have to understand is that after the Cell Saga
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Mar 4, 2015 09:29
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remember when yajirobe was introduced as on par with goku, beat up one guy, then just tagged along being sarcastic for an entire arc until he just sort of wound up living with an old cat because he didnt have an easy way down
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Mar 4, 2015 09:30
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remember when korin taught goku that there were no easy roads to power and that you had to train and work hard if you wanted to surpass your previous limits (rofl) remember when in the next arc he just gave goku some water that made him stronger, completely undermining the previous lesson
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Mar 4, 2015 09:31
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remember when the villains were android 19 and 20, until they were 17, 16, and 18, until it was cell
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Mar 4, 2015 09:34
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remember when chiaotzu was heavily featured on the manga covers and in the promotional art as if he was a major character
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Mar 4, 2015 09:35
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what im saying here is toriyama was writing entirely by the seat of his pants the whole time that's 100% what makes the series cool and interesting, even if it all falls apart if you look at it funny a dbz that was actually planned out would be much more consistent and logical but also a thousand times more boring
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Mar 4, 2015 09:37
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Endorph posted:a dbz that was actually planned out would be much more consistent and logical but also a thousand times more boring one piece says lmao no
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Mar 4, 2015 09:39
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one piece isnt dbz
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Mar 4, 2015 09:41
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BlitzBlast posted:And there's literally never been any question as to if Super Buu was stronger than Kid Buu, because he was. It's basic math. Sure, if you ignore characters like Kibitokai and Goku straight up saying Kid Buu is stronger, there is no question. I prefer the Super Buu = Stronger, Kid Buu = psycho to the point where he's more dangerous theory, but considering the source itself contradicts itself like crazy, there's plenty of boring old questions regarding it.
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Mar 4, 2015 09:42
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Endorph posted:one piece isnt dbz you're right it's better Aurain posted:Sure, if you ignore characters like Kibitokai and Goku straight up saying Kid Buu is stronger, there is no question. I prefer the Super Buu = Stronger, Kid Buu = psycho to the point where he's more dangerous theory, but considering the source itself contradicts itself like crazy, there's plenty of boring old questions regarding it. that's Toei filler you ding dong the thread's gone through this at least 3 times
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Mar 4, 2015 09:44
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TheKingofSprings posted:that's Toei filler you ding dong Chapter 509, the manga straight up says Buu lost power when he absorbed the Kais. I guess it's nonsense too?
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Mar 4, 2015 09:46
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Aurain posted:Chapter 509, the manga straight up says Buu lost power when he absorbed the Kais. I guess it's nonsense too? That works for the fat Kai, that's why fat Buu was the weakest of them all, but for literally every other Kai that runs completely opposite to how Buu works
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Mar 4, 2015 09:52
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It doesn't really matter considering he's still stronger than Goku and Vegeta, whether that's just 'significantly' or 'vastly' never really becomes relevant
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Mar 4, 2015 09:55
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Beerus and Goku were never really on the same level correct? The SSG transformation just let Goku keep up for the most part?
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Mar 4, 2015 10:44
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TheKingofSprings posted:That works for the fat Kai, that's why fat Buu was the weakest of them all, but for literally every other Kai that runs completely opposite to how Buu works Correct. His adsorbing causes him to take on traits of those he adsorbs along with adding their strength to his own. However the Grand Supreme Kai had a kind and gentle nature. As a result of adsorbing him Buu became more gentle and controllable.
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Mar 4, 2015 10:46
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the giant ball at the end that made goku basically go 'okay yeah thats it, i cant keep up' was beerus at about 80% power so yeah, if beerus gave all he had it would barely be a fight. the SSG god just meant that beerus had to actually work
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Mar 4, 2015 10:47
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Testekill posted:Beerus and Goku were never really on the same level correct? The SSG transformation just let Goku keep up for the most part? Yeah, they mention it at the end that Beerus was holding back the entire time.
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Mar 4, 2015 10:47
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The numbers I keep being thrown around, apparently attributed to Toriyama, are as follows. SSG Goku: 6 Beerus: 10 Whis: 15
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Mar 4, 2015 10:49
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Testekill posted:Beerus and Goku were never really on the same level correct? The SSG transformation just let Goku keep up for the most part? Toriyama pretty much said in comparison to each other Goku as a SSG would be a 6, Beerus would be a 10 and Whis a 15. Pretty much Beerus went easy on him. Beerus at the end stated that the Oracle Fish's exaggerated that the SSG would be a worthy opponent. He then said that Goku and Vegeta have potential and maybe one day they would become strong enough to actually give him a challenge. Also just for fun Beerus also apparently can't be harmed by the Ki of Non Gods. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 10:50
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TheKingofSprings posted:That works for the fat Kai, that's why fat Buu was the weakest of them all, but for literally every other Kai that runs completely opposite to how Buu works In terms of offensive power, fat Buu was probably the weakest of all of them, yeah. But he was probably completely invincible at that point, so even SSJ3 or Gotenks or Gohan or Vegito would do nearly nothing to him, because he was essentially an irrational being, evidenced by Vegeta blowing himself up and Buu just collecting himself again as a bunch of tiny Buu's. The way I see it, as a narrative fitting device, Buu becoming Super Buu switched his favor, so he became a lot stronger, but also a lot more mortal. He came down to their level and they could rationally interact with him a lot more, even if he still did ludicrous things. This is considering people have been able to blow apart planets for a while already.
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Mar 4, 2015 11:10
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Mordaedil posted:This is considering people have been able to blow apart planets for a while already. That's a benchmark that was reached pretty much as soon as DBZ began. Vegeta has destroyed planets with the Galick Gun, and the moon has been destroyed on more than one occasion.
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Mar 4, 2015 11:26
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Kingtheninja posted:Is there an explanation for bulma being such a huge bitch when they take off for namek? Like she's just suddenly super angry at everyone for like two episodes then she's fine. I always wondered if it was something cut in the dub.
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Mar 4, 2015 11:32
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Mordaedil posted:In terms of offensive power, fat Buu was probably the weakest of all of them, yeah. But he was probably completely invincible at that point, so even SSJ3 or Gotenks or Gohan or Vegito would do nearly nothing to him, because he was essentially an irrational being, evidenced by Vegeta blowing himself up and Buu just collecting himself again as a bunch of tiny Buu's. Super Buu did this too though. At one point Gotenks blew him up and blasted his remains into dust and he still perfectly reformed. Fat Buu was just worse all-round
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Mar 4, 2015 11:33
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TheKingofSprings posted:one piece says lmao no I'd say that Oda very much writes "from the seat of his pants", as I think most guys who do weekly serialized comics in Japan do, it's just that Oda is much better at sort of "seeding" concepts, locations, and people that he can go back to when writing future stories. I'm almost certain he even said as much at one point in the past, where he says he keeps a bunch of ideas on hand that he can go back to and use in future stories, but they aren't really meticulously planned. Endorph posted:remember when the villains were android 19 and 20, until they were 17, 16, and 18, until it was cell To me, it seems like everything after Frieza was Toriyama basically being all like, "Hah these guys I drew are kinda dumb but I like 'em" and then being told that he's being too dumb and he needs to make the story cooler. I'm sure this was the case with Buu as well. Like I'm sure Toriyama was thinking that a fat pink stay-puff marshmallow man who turned people into candy and ate them was fuckin' rad but nobody else did. I'm even more convinced because everything after Dragonball that he's done, even the more recent dragonball stuff, is so dumb and goofy. Caidin posted:That.... is very disheartening to hear, Gohan was basically my favorite part of DBZ. I'm not really sure why everyone gets so upset about Gohan. Like everyone complains about him basically giving up fighting when it was established that he doesn't like fighting and only does it to protect people. Despite him having the highest potential out of anyone that simple fact is enough to make it so that he can't possibly be the strongest forever. I actually like what they've done with Gohan in post-DBZ stuff generally. Mischitary fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 12:19
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Good points overall.
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Mar 4, 2015 12:51
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What was the source of the thing that said Grand Kai destroyed his brain before being absorbed and that's why Fat Buu was so dumb? Was that canon, fake canon or not even close to canon?
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Mar 4, 2015 13:17
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sharktamer posted:What was the source of the thing that said Grand Kai destroyed his brain before being absorbed and that's why Fat Buu was so dumb? Was that canon, fake canon or not even close to canon? It was in Multiverse. Where they got it from I have no clue. Kild fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 13:49
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Imagine Satan with a shotgun
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Mar 4, 2015 14:03
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