|
No? We like to think that, but finding an ideology or cause to fight for/against is often what gives a mentally ill individual the conviction necessary to overcome their empathy and begin killing. It's absurdly simplistic to assume "some people are just broken, nothing else to see here move along." Everyone is a product of both their inherent qualities and their environment, and their culture and identity tend to play a rather major role in the latter.
I Killed GBS fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Feb 22, 2015 |
#
?
Feb 22, 2015 01:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 09:10 |
|
|
That's not really what I was trying to say. My point is that the doctor is saying "Moonshadow murdering rapists who got away with it is not a big deal; it is in fact the opposite of a big deal; and in fact treating it as a bigger deal than any of the other deals you could be dealing with at this moment is enabling the social structures that enabled those rapists to get away with it in the first place."
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2015 02:02
|
|
|
Or to put it another way, she's asking Alison why this one particular event of violence is getting so much more press than the ones we let slide every day.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2015 02:06
|
|
|
Poison Mushroom posted:Or to put it another way, she's asking Alison why this one particular event of violence is getting so much more press than the ones we let slide every day. It's not just that. She's saying that this isn't a big deal because these types of crimes are going to become a lot more common in the near future, and as biodynamics come into their own, someone like Moonshadow is going to become much more "dog bites man" than it currently is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2015 08:49
|
|
|
Error 404 posted:Anders Breivik is an atheist, watch out for atheist terrorism!!! Timothy McVeigh considered himself christian, as do all those folks who threaten to attack abortion clinics...lots of christian terrorism there. Many references to 'islamic' terrorism are mostly dogwhistle. Those methods are pretty drat important, actually. It's one thing for someone to want to kill rapists and accused rapists to deliver the justice the system can't or won't deal out. It's another to be able to, and it is yet another to be able to and get away with it. Someone can want to kill someone, and have the means to kill someone, but not to it because of the fear of reprisal. Moonshadow, meanwhile has a very low fear of reprisal; there are others like her who the blame can be pinned on, she's got the 'benefit of the doubt' as one of the Good Guys, and if all else fails, it seems the powers that be aren't doing anything to actually stop her (we're going to assume that between Patrick's conspiricy data and actual above the table government forces have the ability to pretty handily Worf someone like Moonshadow). Add a shot of righteousness and shake with ice, and you've got the doctor's revolution martini.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2015 04:43
|
|
|
Warmachine posted:Those methods are pretty drat important, actually. It's one thing for someone to want to kill rapists and accused rapists to deliver the justice the system can't or won't deal out. It's another to be able to, and it is yet another to be able to and get away with it. Someone can want to kill someone, and have the means to kill someone, but not to it because of the fear of reprisal. Moonshadow, meanwhile has a very low fear of reprisal; there are others like her who the blame can be pinned on, she's got the 'benefit of the doubt' as one of the Good Guys, and if all else fails, it seems the powers that be aren't doing anything to actually stop her (we're going to assume that between Patrick's conspiricy data and actual above the table government forces have the ability to pretty handily Worf someone like Moonshadow). I agree, methods and opportunity do count (I phrased that wrong originally), it's more that any belief a terrorist espouses is pretty much just wallpaper to justify their actions. All my examples had more in common with each other, than any of them have with others who share their 'beliefs'.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2015 04:51
|
|
|
God drat 70 times more likely, that's hosed up!
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
Warmachine posted:Those methods are pretty drat important, actually. It's one thing for someone to want to kill rapists and accused rapists to deliver the justice the system can't or won't deal out. It's another to be able to, and it is yet another to be able to and get away with it. Someone can want to kill someone, and have the means to kill someone, but not to it because of the fear of reprisal. Moonshadow, meanwhile has a very low fear of reprisal; there are others like her who the blame can be pinned on, she's got the 'benefit of the doubt' as one of the Good Guys, and if all else fails, it seems the powers that be aren't doing anything to actually stop her (we're going to assume that between Patrick's conspiricy data and actual above the table government forces have the ability to pretty handily Worf someone like Moonshadow). The big question is: why hasn't this happened before now? There's all sorts of causes to go vigilante for once you become certain you're untouchable, why is this sort of thing only becoming newsworthy now? I mean, if Ferguson had happened in this universe you'd have protesters throwing not just rocks and spent teargas canisters but fireballs and bubbles of distorted space. Mr.Pibbleton posted:God drat 70 times more likely, that's hosed up! 70 times what though? I mean, 70 times nil is still nil. It's not nil, obviously, but numbers like that without context don't really tell you anything. I tried looking up the reference statistic, but only found unsourced quotes. Also, the doctor's 1 out of 4 statistic is a little out of date: It's actually closer to 1 in 6 women as of 2014. (Unless you're native american, then the rate is closer to 1 in 3.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2015 22:54
|
|
|
Error 404 posted:I agree, methods and opportunity do count (I phrased that wrong originally), it's more that any belief a terrorist espouses is pretty much just wallpaper to justify their actions. All my examples had more in common with each other, than any of them have with others who share their 'beliefs'. People carry out violence based on sincerely held ideological beliefs all the time. In fact many people we consider hero's have carried out ideologically motivated violence that is in line with our own cultural beliefs and therefor not considered "crazy". They are not just people who murder and then justify it, they are carrying their sincerely held beliefs to their logical endpoint in confrontation with another viewpoint. Something that characterizes the entirety of history. Timothy McVeigh might not be a "christian terrorist" but his actions were the direct result of his ideology which was certainly Christian, certainly sincere, and meant as a direct statement against a competing worldview. Anyway I just read this comic and it's p. dope. A Gnarlacious Bro fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Feb 25, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 17:38
|
|
|
A Gnarlacious Bro posted:People carry out violence based on sincerely held ideological beliefs all the time. In fact many people we consider hero's have carried out ideologically motivated violence that is in line with our own cultural beliefs and therefor not considered "crazy". They are not just people who murder and then justify it, they are carrying their sincerely held beliefs to their logical endpoint in confrontation with another viewpoint. Something that characterizes the entirety of history. He was a terrorist who happened to be christian. The point I was making is that people sort of blithely spout out 'muslim terrorist' like that actually means anything. McVeigh has a lot more in common with those dudes in a bomb vest, than either of them have with the tenets of islam or christianity.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 17:57
|
|
|
Error 404 posted:He was a terrorist who happened to be christian. The point I was making is that people sort of blithely spout out 'muslim terrorist' like that actually means anything. I can agree that that's a dogwhistle phrase, but the Idea that terrorism is some identity detached from the beliefs of the person is pretty wierd. The tenets of islam, christianity, atheism, ect are significantly more subjective than it might seem and both McVeigh and your average suicide bomber are both connected to very real reactionary ideological traditions. Saying "crazy people gonna kill" seems like the exact same reductive wishful thinking that everybody repeats nauseam after a school shooting to avoid dealing with the real beliefs of the persons that carried it out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
A Gnarlacious Bro posted:I can agree that that's a dogwhistle phrase, but the Idea that terrorism is some identity detached from the beliefs of the person is pretty wierd. The tenets of islam, christianity, atheism, ect are significantly more subjective than it might seem and both McVeigh and your average suicide bomber are both connected to very real reactionary ideological traditions. Saying "crazy people gonna kill" seems like the exact same reductive wishful thinking that everybody repeats nauseam after a school shooting to avoid dealing with the real beliefs of the persons that carried it out. That's a fair point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
Cryophage posted:The big question is: why hasn't this happened before now? There's all sorts of causes to go vigilante for once you become certain you're untouchable, why is this sort of thing only becoming newsworthy now? I mean, if Ferguson had happened in this universe you'd have protesters throwing not just rocks and spent teargas canisters but fireballs and bubbles of distorted space. I'm Native Alaskan, the proceeds from our first state lottery went to a battered woman's shelter and it was won by a guy convicted of multiple sexual assaults. Fun fact: In order to cut down on the costs of investigating rape claims Alaska started charging rape victims and their insurers pay for processing evidence. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
god exists and it hates us all
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2015 18:36
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:god exists and it hates us all It's not all bad, Native Alaskans and veterans get free health care in Alaska. Seriously it's really god drat good, I walked in without an appointment and saw a dentist within 20 minutes got some xrays done had a few dentists look at it and consult over the results.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2015 19:38
|
|
|
Mr.Pibbleton posted:It's not all bad, Native Alaskans and veterans get free health care in Alaska. Seriously it's really god drat good, I walked in without an appointment and saw a dentist within 20 minutes got some xrays done had a few dentists look at it and consult over the results.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2015 08:15
|
|
|
Mr.Pibbleton posted:I'm Native Alaskan, the proceeds from our first state lottery went to a battered woman's shelter and it was won by a guy convicted of multiple sexual assaults. Wasn't it Sarah Palin who started charging women for their own rape kits?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2015 14:41
|
|
|
Alison is such a liar, she doesn't look fine at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2015 14:57
|
|
|
Her inability to track down a serial killer was almost as vexing as her maybe boyfriend not texting her enough!
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2015 19:57
|
|
|
Mary and Allison are going to have an epic in costume show down.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
nimby posted:Alison is such a liar, she doesn't look fine at all. Cool haircut though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2015 22:18
|
|
|
Poison Mushroom posted:It's really good, just don't get raped! Did I mention weed is legal up there, just don't get raped! Atmus posted:Her inability to track down a serial killer was almost as vexing as her maybe boyfriend not texting her enough! Well he knows she's thinking about him, he seriously needs to reciprocate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2015 03:31
|
|
|
I would probably be extremely difficult for someone like him to get into a relationship. For one, he knows how every person he's ever met's relationships have gone. He would also have to give up some of his control and I just can't see that happening.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2015 04:53
|
|
|
Speaking of Patrick, Allison has finally decided to call in the big guns now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 05:16
|
|
|
Gorilla Salad posted:Wasn't it Sarah Palin who started charging women for their own rape kits? Yes, but that was a mayor of a town of 7,000 people, not as governor of the state.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 16:53
|
|
|
Patrick Spens posted:Yes, but that was a mayor of a town of 7,000 people, not as governor of the state.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 16:56
|
|
|
Poison Mushroom posted:Which is somehow better than her charging women for their own rape kits, then getting elected governor? Makes her better qualified than Barack HUSSEIN Obama to be president according to the republican party.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 06:07
|
|
|
Mr.Pibbleton posted:Makes her better qualified than Barack HUSSEIN Obama to be president according to the republican party. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 23:14
|
|
|
Poison Mushroom posted:Don't you mean IRAQ HUSSEIN OSAMA? Afghanistan and Iraq are Obummer's wars!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 05:45
|
|
|
This dude is probably going to get his throat cut on live TV then right?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 11:08
|
|
|
thebardyspoon posted:This dude is probably going to get his throat cut on live TV then right? Only if he abused women. Maybe that is what's driving Moonshadow, fire-guy raped her and she's building up to a live television execution.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 13:09
|
|
|
Welcome our new long-term cast regular, That Fire Dick who's talking to the news all the time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 13:22
|
|
|
I'm a little concerned about where the Patrick and Alison bit is going to go from here; the shady dealings by the waterfront from earlier comics makes me think he's playing her which in turn makes me think that there's going to be some kind of uproar about a woman being lied to and used by a man because the man in question can read her mind and uses that to trick her. Honestly I don't find that offensive myself but lately all the crap about video games and Anita Sarkeesian and finding excuses to call virtually anything sexist has been making me double-think and triple-think everything I see. khy fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Mar 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
If that's your main takeaway from what's been happening recently you really haven't done enough thinking about it
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
flatluigi posted:what's been happening recently I just sat down and read the entire comic from beginning to end and so it all feels 'recent' to me. Also I'm not good with this stuff. I was recently talking with some people in a thread over on Games. In the game in question, a very strong female protagonist is captured as a plot hook to lure the main character into a trap. The female is never portrayed as weak, in fact she saves the MC's life on more than one occasion. She's depicted as having struggled in life and become a badass due to nothing but sheer guts and willpower. So I was confused why everyone called it sexist. This feels sort of similar. Strong female protagonist who is suddenly being depicted as (possibly) being manipulated by a male. And I find myself wondering whether or not it's sexist or not because I see similarities between the two situations. I don't think I should be reading this webcomic at all; it's got good art and interesting characters and a decent story but I get the feeling that I'm overthinking or underthinking the subtext to it all and I might not be properly understanding the issues the webcomic author is trying to address because i'm looking at it from the wrong angles.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 18:31
|
|
|
khy posted:This feels sort of similar. The only similarity between these two situations is that there is a man and a woman. Being (potentially) manipulated isn't the same as having her agency taken away from her. She's not being portrayed as weak, and it's not being used to A. compare her unfavorably to a man, B. Motivate a man, or C. Undermine her character. There you go there is your problem.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 19:35
|
|
|
Well the good news is, if the burning people alive thing doesn't work out for Furnace, he can easily find a well paying position as a Contributor for Fox News.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
Not for much longer
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Holy poo poo shut up about gamergate you obsessive weirdo This is super-defensive "gotta call something not-sexist before it's called sexist" schtick is so played out, and if that's the tone you're getting from this comic then I'm not sure if you're mature enough to handle the material.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 21:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 09:10 |
|
|
Tender Child Loins posted:Holy poo poo shut up about gamergate you obsessive weirdo TCL you're making me even more confused because I don't know how gamergate even comes in to play with this conversation at all. I was trying to apply a recent conversation I had about sexism and the loss of agency towards this comic where the main character is (seemingly) being psychologically manipulated, which I also saw as being somewhat of a loss of agency until Vonnie added some clarification. In the past I always thought that sexist was just 'portraying women as weak and men as strong', and I thought a situation where a lady was being psychologically manipulated also fell into this category. Recent conversations made in other threads (The dying light thread) brought up the possibility of a SFP losing agency and it being sexist and all that poo poo so when I see this manipulation I didn't know whether or not it was considered 'losing agency'. However Vonnie's 3 points were extremely helpful. I didn't know to apply those 3 points to determine if it's really a loss of agency or not.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2015 21:45
|
|