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FrostyPox posted:I see the new Warhammer Visions is out. It's odd considering the extreme belt tightening they normally do. Then again I don't know how much it costs them to print.
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Mar 4, 2015 03:55
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so uh I may have found a pdf online of the orc book to see if it was worth buying and maybe this version is just really awful but it seems like most pages are just white backgrounds with black text and most of the flavor text is recycled?
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Mar 4, 2015 03:57
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Omar al-Bishie posted:so uh I may have found a pdf online of the orc book to see if it was worth buying and maybe this version is just really awful but it seems like most pages are just white backgrounds with black text and most of the flavor text is recycled? The ork codex was a special case. But they are mostly just black text on white for readability. The Necron PDF codex is really well done though.
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Mar 4, 2015 03:59
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Omar al-Bishie posted:so uh I may have found a pdf online of the orc book to see if it was worth buying and maybe this version is just really awful but it seems like most pages are just white backgrounds with black text and most of the flavor text is recycled? Yup. Real  job on GWs part.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:01
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I don't think the bloodthirster pricetag is that ridiculous. It's cheaper than a warmachine collosal/gargantuan.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:05
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DJ Dizzy posted:I don't think the bloodthirster pricetag is that ridiculous. It's cheaper than a warmachine collosal/gargantuan. It's 10-20 bucks cheaper than the MSRP of most of the colossals/gargantuans (the outliers being the Prime Axiom at 144 and the Earthbreaker at 155), but if you're looking at the discounts offered by most online retailers, the colossals/gargs start beating it out by 20-30 bucks, even the Earthbreaker is about 7 bucks less. Of course, I don't know if there are any major online retailiers that would be offering the Bloodthirster at a significant discount - there very well may be - but the gap is really much smaller once you factor in retailer discounts for WMH items. (I should also note that Miniature Market, the retailer I looked at for discount pricing, recently dropped WH40k entirely from their offerings).
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Mar 4, 2015 04:14
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Pyrolocutus posted:It's 10-20 bucks cheaper than the MSRP of most of the colossals/gargantuans (the outliers being the Prime Axiom at 144 and the Earthbreaker at 155), but if you're looking at the discounts offered by most online retailers, the colossals/gargs start beating it out by 20-30 bucks, even the Earthbreaker is about 7 bucks less. Pretty sure the gargs/colossals are also bigger then the bloodthirster, and they're worth way more as a total value of your army. I'm sure the bloodthristers are somewhere around 200-300 points?
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Mar 4, 2015 04:18
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Indolent Bastard posted:Yup. Real the last book was so good, it had some hilarious orky stories. I read it more than I played the game, I think (not a lot of time or money to spend on the hobby, really). And this new one costs $50? That's... that's actually a pretty sad joke. The hardback looked so appealing in the store, thank god I didn't buy it.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:34
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Saalkin posted:Pretty sure the gargs/colossals are also bigger then the bloodthirster, and they're worth way more as a total value of your army. I'm sure the bloodthristers are somewhere around 200-300 points? The big End Times models are absolutely massive point investments. Nagash is 1000 points IIRC.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:40
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:The big End Times models are absolutely massive point investments. Nagash is 1000 points IIRC. At the same time Nagash's whole gimmick is summoning entire units of stuff, so you're gonna have to bring a couple hundred dollars more of other kits to field him properly.
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Mar 4, 2015 05:02
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Saalkin posted:Pretty sure the gargs/colossals are also bigger then the bloodthirster, and they're worth way more as a total value of your army. I'm sure the bloodthristers are somewhere around 200-300 points? I am reasonably certain the Bloodthirster is bigger than the gargs/colossals. I've seen all of the Colossals and Gargs in person except for Earthbreaker, and I own a Conquest. Conquest is definitely bulkier than the Bloodthirster looks but I'm pretty sure the Bloodthirster is larger in every dimension. EDIT: lest my sleuthing resemble advocacy, let me say this: I'm glad I bought my Conquest. I love PP. I will not be buying a Bloodthirster. I do not love GW. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 05:32
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He doesn't look all that big here. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/The-Blood-Hunt-Web-Bundle next to the other stuff. It's all in his wing span. but I could be wrong.
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Mar 4, 2015 05:50
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Found a 6th edition Vassal module. It looks as confusing as the real thing.Saalkin posted:He doesn't look all that big here. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/The-Blood-Hunt-Web-Bundle next to the other stuff. It's all in his wing span. Holy poo poo, Bloodthirster can probably survive maybe one trip, and then the flames break, then the flail breaks, and then the wings...
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Mar 4, 2015 06:04
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:The big End Times models are absolutely massive point investments. Nagash is 1000 points IIRC. The new End Times Bloodthirsters range from 400 to 550 points, which is in the same points range as regular greater daemons in the Daemons book. Points per dollar, it got a lot worse since the new model costs twice as much as the old and the points are the same-ish. It's way larger and better looking, though.
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Mar 4, 2015 08:47
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LordAba posted:It's not wonderful. You just completely fair at pointing out the real flaws? PeterWeller posted:No, the KFF was a cover save, and is now an invulnerable save, so it protects your boys against all the ignores cover stuff out there.
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Mar 4, 2015 09:35
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Isn't the punchline that after End Times nobody is going to use these $100+ models?
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Mar 4, 2015 10:58
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moths posted:Isn't the punchline that after End Times nobody is going to use these $100+ models? Like GW give a toss, they're a miniatures company remember 
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Mar 4, 2015 12:40
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moths posted:Isn't the punchline that after End Times nobody is going to use these $100+ models? Well chaos isn't going any where, and the glotkin make a good Great Unclean One. In two or three weeks 40k is getting a Khorne themed book to give stats to the new bloodthirsters and some new CSM options.
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Mar 4, 2015 15:37
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Codex: No gently caress you dad rargh
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Mar 4, 2015 15:58
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Saalkin posted:He doesn't look all that big here. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/The-Blood-Hunt-Web-Bundle next to the other stuff. It's all in his wing span. Archangel is probably the most apples-to-apples comparison, and I think Archangel is probably slightly bigger, but not by so much that the Bloodthirster looks like bad value by virtue of size alone. I think Archangel is a much cooler model. I don't play Legion but at one point I seriously considered buying one just to paint and maybe use once in IKRPG. However, Archangel is also a lot less likely to meaningfully contribute to a Legion collection than a Bloodthirster is to a Chaos collection.
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Mar 4, 2015 16:24
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Has the meta shifted enough for the archangel to be good or is it still too squishy for its points? edit: Also the archangel is cheaper by MSRP and most places give around 25% discounts on price. Also the blood thirster is about 6.5 inches tall and made of plastic. The archangel is 9.5 inches tall and made or resin. Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 16:53
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PresidentBeard posted:Has the meta shifted enough for the archangel to be good or is it still too squishy for its points? I believe the archangel is $134.99 MSRP vs $116.00 on the Bloodthirster ($94.50 vs $92.8 if you buy the Archangel from Discount Games Inc and the Bloodthirster from the War Store). Those dimensions don't look right to me given the Bloodthirster's base size in the one picture but this is complete guesswork on my part. The Archangel might be kind of awesome in Masters with the new format but I think it's still pretty lovely with the vast majority of Legion casters in normal SR play. A Bloodthirster might conceivably be used, to good effect, in every game a Chaos player plays; that's not true for Archangel. But Archangel is 35-40% of a list and is a much cooler model. With regard to material, I'd rather transport plastic than resin, although both of those pieces would be loving nightmares to transport. PP is indisputably a better company and Warmachine is indisputably  a better game. I just don't think that it's fair to say that Gargantuans are orders of magnitude better value than that Bloodthirster. Stormwall vs. Imperial Knight is kind of an interesting debate too, and I think PP wins that value contest hands down, but again not by miles.Edit: my real point being, there are plenty of GW products that are absolutely terrible value compared to stuff from PP, and we should be talking about those, not getting bent out of shape by every single new weekly release (not that the posters I'm talking to are doing that). Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 17:25
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People also overlook the extra parts and customisation that you get with GW kits. You can't compare say a 5 man Sternguard box to a 5 man box of PP elite infantry. GW you get fully poseable and customisable miniatures with weapon options and spare parts. In a PP elite infantry box of 5 models you get 3 sculpts with 2 double ups of the same model. Looking at prices on ebay there is about a $10 price difference in USD, (sternguard being 40bux and trollkin champions being 30)
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Mar 4, 2015 17:36
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For sure. But those champions will still be valid in five years time.
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Mar 4, 2015 17:38
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Big Willy Style posted:People also overlook the extra parts and customisation that you get with GW kits. You can't compare say a 5 man Sternguard box to a 5 man box of PP elite infantry. GW you get fully poseable and customisable miniatures with weapon options and spare parts. In a PP elite infantry box of 5 models you get 3 sculpts with 2 double ups of the same model. Looking at prices on ebay there is about a $10 price difference in USD, (sternguard being 40bux and trollkin champions being 30) Eldar aren't remotely poseable or customisable. It's time to start taking into account more than just the flagship box of Tactical Marines when discussing the add on value and technical sophistication of GW products. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 17:39
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NTRabbit posted:Eldar aren't remotely poseable or customisable. You can pose torsos, arms and heads. The kit is also interchangeable with dark eldar plastics. You're just straight up wrong
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Mar 4, 2015 17:45
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Thirsty Dog posted:For sure. But those champions will still be valid in five years time. Sternguard have been a constant in Space Marines for at least 7 years, possibly 10 (I don't recall if they were in the 4e Codex when I looked through it)
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Mar 4, 2015 17:47
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PresidentBeard posted:Has the meta shifted enough for the archangel to be good or is it still too squishy for its points? Too squishy and not flexible enough. All Colossals have a secondary battery that can pump out a lot of infantry destroying firepower as well as being big enough to beat up anything warjackish/warbeastish. The only successful Gargantuan, the Skorne Mammoth, fakes it. Two of its Fury go on extra canon shots every turn, dropping 4" AoEs over random chunks of infantry and making for a fake secondary battery. The Archangel's only way of dealing with swathes of infantry (other than a Sweep) is Strafe with small AoEs - and that doesn't take many apart due to positioning issues. The Mountain King only gets a single high power spray. And the WoldWrath's secondary attack only does a single electroleap damage. They are all very good at taking down enemy heavies - but so are the Scythean, the Earthborn Dire Troll, and the Feral Warpwolf.
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Mar 4, 2015 17:51
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neonchameleon posted:Too squishy and not flexible enough. All Colossals have a secondary battery that can pump out a lot of infantry destroying firepower as well as being big enough to beat up anything warjackish/warbeastish. The only successful Gargantuan, the Skorne Mammoth, fakes it. Two of its Fury go on extra canon shots every turn, dropping 4" AoEs over random chunks of infantry and making for a fake secondary battery. The Archangel's only way of dealing with swathes of infantry (other than a Sweep) is Strafe with small AoEs - and that doesn't take many apart due to positioning issues. The Mountain King only gets a single high power spray. And the WoldWrath's secondary attack only does a single electroleap damage. They are all very good at taking down enemy heavies - but so are the Scythean, the Earthborn Dire Troll, and the Feral Warpwolf. The colossals just fit into lists better anyway. You can just take a Kraken or Conquest and say done and have a mean battlegroup that has to be a consideration if you can get it into the late game. Gargantuans aren't really like that. You still have to buy the rest of the BG to get anything out of them, really, and they're not worth it for that. Colossals fit very well into Warmahordes, and I think a lot of people's objections to them are the ones in factions with heavies that suck, like Mercs, where they pretty much supercede anything but the tiniest battlegroup in that faction.
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Mar 4, 2015 17:54
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PresidentBeard posted:Has the meta shifted enough for the archangel to be good or is it still too squishy for its points? Wha? Archangel MSRP is 134.99, Bloodthirster MSRP is 116. US bucks, anyways. The archangel is still a little bulkier and an overall much more impressive looking model than the bloodthirster I think, though, and it definitely has a much more impressive base. The wings are the only really impressive part of the bloodthirster to me. Big Willy Style posted:You can pose torsos, arms and heads. The kit is also interchangeable with dark eldar plastics. You're just straight up wrong Barely. You can barely change their pose, and if you do it too much the model won't fit together correctly or will just look awful. They are not even close to fully poseable, which is what you said. All of GWs character models for the last few years have been completely unposable plastic kits. S.J. fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 17:58
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Big Willy Style posted:You can pose torsos, arms and heads. The kit is also interchangeable with dark eldar plastics. You're just straight up wrong No, you can slightly twist the torsos, arms and heads on just three kits, the Guardians, Wraithguard/blade and the Dire Avengers, otherwise all other infantry in the range are single or two piece monopose. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 17:59
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S.J. posted:Wha? Archangel MSRP is 134.99, Bloodthirster MSRP is 116. US bucks, anyways. The archangel is still a little bulkier and an overall much more impressive looking model than the bloodthirster I think, though, and it definitely has a much more impressive base. The wings are the only really impressive part of the bloodthirster to me. So you can pose them? And they are infinitely more posable than any PP infantry? Tell me which way would you like your wodowmakers head looking oh you're going to have to cut it off, reposition it and green stuff the damage. Also the guardians were designed in 1999. What is PPs excuse?
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Mar 4, 2015 18:04
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NTRabbit posted:No, you can slightly twist the torsos, arms and heads on just three kits, the Guardians, Wraithguard/blade and the Dire Avengers, otherwise all other infantry in the range are single or two piece monopose. Oh yeah, the jetbike kit is poo poo and the aspect warriors are in the same boat as PP. Seriously dude, you are grasping at straws here and you are constantly wrong about things in hobby threads. You constantly champion terrible mantic models like their elves, will happily sit down and paint those dumb as gently caress and terrible orx models for dead zone and then are wilfully ignorant about gw kits just to prove a point which is off the mark to start with.
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Mar 4, 2015 18:08
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Big Willy Style posted:Oh yeah, the jetbike kit is poo poo and the aspect warriors are in the same boat as PP. You're adorably terrible 
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Mar 4, 2015 18:12
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much like mantic's waif elves
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Mar 4, 2015 18:13
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I know that 1 is infinite times greater than 0, but saying the gw eldar are 'infinitely more poseable' is a pretty disingenuous way of describing that some of the models can be twisted slightly.
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Mar 4, 2015 18:15
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:much like mantic's waif elves Tolkienesque elves tyvm, and the Orx are great, Big Willy just doesn't know jack poo poo about any minis outside of the shining jewels apparently.
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Mar 4, 2015 18:15
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Ignite Memories posted:I know that 1 is infinite times greater than 0, but saying the gw eldar are 'infinitely more poseable' is a pretty disingenuous way of describing that some of the models can be twisted slightly. This, and also some Boomhowlers have heads and arms that can be twisted slightly, which is at least an 0.4 in my book. I can't think of any other poseable PP kits but I'm sure there are some out there. I think Big Willy Style's underlying point is valid.
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Mar 4, 2015 18:18
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Big Willy Style posted:People also overlook the extra parts and customisation that you get with GW kits. You can't compare say a 5 man Sternguard box to a 5 man box of PP elite infantry. GW you get fully poseable and customisable miniatures with weapon options and spare parts. In a PP elite infantry box of 5 models you get 3 sculpts with 2 double ups of the same model. Looking at prices on ebay there is about a $10 price difference in USD, (sternguard being 40bux and trollkin champions being 30) Troll Champs are way bigger models then sterns are. Being poseable and customization isn't worth the extra cost, and neither are the spare parts that will sit in a box forever. The weapon options are worth a little extra though because you can use them somewhere else for sure, but that just brings up the issue that GW kits often don't have enough of the options you want or they aren't there at all, although the newer kits have been better at that from my understanding. Those champs are also a full unit. You don't need a second box to bring them to full squad size. Sterns are also worth way less of a % of your army then the champs are. PP overall is a way better value, unless your just looking for a pretty model to paint, and even then that's super subjective.
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Mar 4, 2015 18:20
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NTRabbit posted:Tolkienesque elves tyvm, and the Orx are great, Big Willy just doesn't know jack poo poo about any minis outside of the shining jewels apparently. I have miniatures from most of the popular companies. Mantic included. I have painted and collected multiple pp armies. I just don't have to make up bullshit to bag out other miniatures makers. Feel free to search through my post history in the painting and modeling thread of for some reason you don't believe me. My point is that the majority of gw miniatures are poseable and come with more than the bare essentials where as the vast majority of PP miniatires are single pose with no room for customisation. You are getting different products. You guys can get hung up on a kit that is 15 years old that just isn't poseable enough for your likes but you are purposefully arguing around the point Big Willy Style fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 18:20
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