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Yeah the enemy AI has definitely gone through a change. I had one of those howling assholes spending every turn it got throwing skulls at my occultist. Another fight saw one my Hellions getting wailed on by every monster until she finally went nuts. I'm still deciding whether I like it or not because it definitely has made some fights much harder, but on the other hand it's total horseshit since you can't feasibly keep up with that kind of damage output, crits notwithstanding, nor can you reliably deal enough damage to feasibly manage the fight. And since so few enemies are actually negatively impacted by having their positions changed, it can be really frustrating to find that no matter what you do you're just going to keep eating attacks that rack up stress until you manage to get around to dealing with that enemy. Still though, I only have the final Hag to deal with, so I guess I can't complain too much.
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Mar 7, 2015 06:27
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Deathblow is an interesting mechanic but in the interest of reducing RNG hypothetical idea: Your character bleeds to death in however many turns. Instead of % chance of dying right away getting hit knocks it down an extra tick. Weak grip on life decreases the ticks you have, and unyielding (or whatever it's called) boosts it. It'd still have tension since you know you can't just get lucky and have a guy eat hits all day and never die, but it's also controllable so the game won't just go "Yeah we're gonna crit you twice and then knock off your best dude before any of your party gets a turn, thanks for playing." MacheteZombie posted:I hope the dev's are planning something like this. Since it's still EA though, I can see why it hasn't been put in the game yet. It should be a stage coach upgrade that is separate from the rest of the upgrade tree or added at the end of upgrade tree. Something like 20 of each heirloom for rank 1, start all your dudes at level 1 would be good, and like 100 of each for level 5 heroes arriving on the coach. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Mar 7, 2015 |
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Mar 7, 2015 07:56
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So I realized giving all my characters tastes, eg. I love sending my hellions to the brothel, makes gold use and quirk juggling more interesting. I can't have only meditation, they've gotta touch some butts. Also characters should just wear all the trinkets they find. After a few dungeons they have a sufficient amount of bling, and can fight better as they slowly turn into walking piles of trinkets.
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Mar 7, 2015 10:07
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I lost my main Highwayman and Graverobber so I've been trying to level up a set of 2 Highwaymen + 2 Graverobbers. They're just smashing through encounters such that they haven't been losing much health. Coupled with Clean Guns it gets a bit ridiculous. I imagine it won't last past stronger enemies but its done reasonably with a little extra food to keep the health. I really enjoy how the game systems force interesting choices in party make up. Especially how healing can just barely keep pace with standalone damage, so being overly conservative on battles can just invite crits to ruin your day.
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Mar 7, 2015 11:25
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Anatharon posted:Deathblow is an interesting mechanic but in the interest of reducing RNG hypothetical idea: Your character bleeds to death in however many turns. Instead of % chance of dying right away getting hit knocks it down an extra tick. Weak grip on life decreases the ticks you have, and unyielding (or whatever it's called) boosts it. That would completely remove all the tension that comes from being put into death's door.
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Mar 8, 2015 00:16
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Internet Kraken posted:That would completely remove all the tension that comes from being put into death's door. The whole theme of the game is risk vs. reward and the death mechanics play into that. You can play it safe and bail when you run out of HP, or you can push your luck and try tanking a few more hits. You might get lucky and smash through a bunch of enemies with impunity, or you might just die needlessly on the next easy enemy you run into. A fixed death timer undermines that.
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Mar 8, 2015 00:28
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the whole theme of the game is building tension over time
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Mar 8, 2015 00:35
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I don't think a fixed death timer is necessarily a great idea, but I do think that giving heroes higher base Deathblow resistance and having it suffer a substantial temporary (like, until the end of the expedition) penalty with each almost-Deathblow they eat could be a good compromise. Anything that makes you less likely to watch the character you spent hours leveling up die without recourse literally at random can only be a good thing, and it would ensure that "I bet he can survive a round on Death's Door"/"he has 4hp, he'll probably survive this fight"/etc. still represented a significant gamble (and if your character did in fact die, it was probably your own drat fault on some level). You'd still be kind of biting your nails when a good character dropped to DD but you'd be a lot less likely to get randomly hosed by the RNG, while still having to play intelligently and make difficult choices if you gave a poo poo about your dudes surviving.
Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 01:02
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Slaapaav posted:the whole theme of the game is building tension over time
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Mar 8, 2015 01:10
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I'm kind of eh on the Death Blow chat, mainly because you can equip trinkets that increase that threshold. You may not be able to get a 100% immunity, but drop a couple on and you could go to 80%ish, which is still pretty goddamn good.
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Mar 8, 2015 05:05
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Radiochromatic posted:I'm kind of eh on the Death Blow chat, mainly because you can equip trinkets that increase that threshold. You may not be able to get a 100% immunity, but drop a couple on and you could go to 80%ish, which is still pretty goddamn good. Jackard posted:And hubris! This will end happily, I'm sure.
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Mar 8, 2015 05:30
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DB resist is hardcapped at like 87% I think. Which, sure, is a lot, but overconfidence, slow and insidious, etc.
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Mar 8, 2015 06:38
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Just started this game First mission with first 4 mercenaries you get First several fights surprise my group and put people in terrible spots, every stress attack crits, my first Vestal is ganked in the first turn of an ambush not revealed by scouting before I decide it's best to flee At this point I just delete that save and start over because no I am not dealing with this poo poo just yet game. At least allow me to get attached and hopeful before everything goes wrong
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Mar 8, 2015 09:15
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Radiochromatic posted:I'm kind of eh on the Death Blow chat, mainly because you can equip trinkets that increase that threshold. You may not be able to get a 100% immunity, but drop a couple on and you could go to 80%ish, which is still pretty goddamn good. Also, +initiative on healers or single target "problem solvers" can go a long way towards avoiding eating multiple crits before an action. I don't really have a huge issue with the ai focus-firing targets, as it makes sense from intelligent enemies; but I'm sure a few months of combat balancing will help quite a bit. If they do it right, it'll probably be fairly interesting to figure out the proper party combinations (down to trinket loadout) for each dungeon. Unfun bullshit is something most devs genuinely want to avoid, and Red Hook hasn't dropped the ball yet on anything major, so here's to hoping they can make the combat a bit less binary while staying mean.
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Mar 8, 2015 09:27
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Internet Kraken posted:That would completely remove all the tension that comes from being put into death's door. I disagree. Think of it like FTL: You know how far the rebel fleet is behind you but you've also got the tension of figuring out if you can really afford to make that one jump or not.
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Mar 8, 2015 10:30
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So hey, how moddable is/is going to be this game?
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Mar 8, 2015 12:21
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Blind Duke posted:Just started this game Seriously, whenever I see a group of several wine tossers in the first dungeon I cringe and just restart.
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Mar 8, 2015 12:23
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I don't get restarting off a bad first run. It is at the point where basically the only hard to recover from thing that can happen is you dumping ALL of your cash in provisions. I mean, my tutorial characters didn't even survive. (you escape and make it to the Estate if that happens)
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Mar 8, 2015 13:38
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RubberBands Hurt posted:Also, +initiative on healers or single target "problem solvers" can go a long way towards avoiding eating multiple crits before an action. I wouldn't have an issue with better AI targetting if you had better means to mitigate it or get around all the extra damage. Healing is very limited in this game and many enemies are very fast, making it tough to get more speed than some outside of Fast Reflexes + Quick combos, and even "tanky" characters are usually just larger bags of HP since protection is a very limited commodity as well. Sloober fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 15:50
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Anatharon posted:I disagree. Think of it like FTL: You know how far the rebel fleet is behind you but you've also got the tension of figuring out if you can really afford to make that one jump or not. The mechanics of the rebel fleet and death's door are so completely different I have no idea how you can make that comparison. There isn't really much tension involved in it because you can see exactly how far its advancing, and once your defenses are built up its not even lethal just annoying. The rebel fleet is just there to keep you from grinding infinitely. Point is, the tension in death's door comes from not knowing if the next blow is going to be fatal or not. Once someone is in it you are supposed to be fearing for the life because any hit can be the end. You add some dumb bleed out mechanic and that completely changes because you know exactly when they are gonna die. Plus the game is easy enough without making death's door throw you an even bigger bone.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:41
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Internet Kraken posted:Once someone is in it you are supposed to be fearing for the life because any hit can be the end.
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Mar 8, 2015 19:19
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Didn't they specifically let Wilbur bypass the stun resist change so he could permanently stunlock your party still? Wilbur is basically the devs giving you a middle finger.
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Mar 9, 2015 01:45
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You still get the buff, but Wilbur's got an overpowered stun, much like the Hellion's, so it still connects pretty often. I'd whine about it, but I pull the same bullshit with my favorite ladies all the time.
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Mar 9, 2015 01:57
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Having a Hellion up front and a Plague Doctor in the back with speed equipment on is a good way to get an extra turn or two of free hits in with their double-stuns. PD hits the back, Hellion hits the front. Other two characters deal out punishment.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:35
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I've got maxed heroes at levels 3 and 2, but I've yet to finish the swine prince at level 1 (which I know level 3 heroes won't go on, and a solid 5-6 of my good level 2's are close to leveling). The two times I tried the swine prince I got wiped in 3 rounds using level 1's so I'm worried about going back. Are the blacksmith and guild hall upgrades necessary to survive stuff like this? I'm sitting on about 110k gold with almost all the town buildings upgraded but have never upgraded heroes, I assumed you didn't really do that until they hit level 6 and you wiped out their worst traits in the sanitarium. I've also never used trinkets because I worry about losing the good ones/juggling the negative modifiers. I think I'm playing this game wrong.
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Mar 9, 2015 06:11
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Just got it a day ago, played a bit, already did a delete+restart (man, gently caress those thrown goblet assholes) and I have to ask: is it worth clicking on the drama/comedy masks at the end of each run? It seems the best case scenario is getting a positive trait along with the negative. Is it possible to get only a positive quirk?
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Mar 9, 2015 06:11
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Yes. You'd think they were some sort of gamble, but actually those masks are just for show and characters get the quirks anyhow.
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Mar 9, 2015 06:17
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Fenarisk posted:I've got maxed heroes at levels 3 and 2, but I've yet to finish the swine prince at level 1 (which I know level 3 heroes won't go on, and a solid 5-6 of my good level 2's are close to leveling). The two times I tried the swine prince I got wiped in 3 rounds using level 1's so I'm worried about going back. Swine Prince was probably the easiest tier-1 boss for me, since it lacks a overly debilitating gimmick. I think having a lvl 2 Merc with highest possible stun bomb helped a LOT however since I wound up with a ~50% chance to stun him with a few extra trinkets. As for his fight, since he broadcasts his targets you can easily set up a heal wave on the targets to nullify his stuff. A Vestal/Occultist combo really helped in that regard. Smith/Guild are mandatory. Guild levels your attacks up and ergo accuracy, which helps a boat load. Smith increases your damage output and your evasion. Take that 110k and kit out your dudes, watch how much more effective they are. Trinkets are great if you know what to look for. Hell, putting a stun token on my merc helped a lot with stunning Pig Prince. The tradeoffs are super negligible unless they're something dumb like Moon Ring which puts your damage down 15% if you're anywhere over 25 light. Also, on a separate note, what happens if you kill the little pig buddy. I got him down to 1 hp but then my vestal said "What're you stupid!? Ignore the baby pig!"
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Mar 9, 2015 08:22
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The Swine Prince berserks and gets multiple attacks per turn and you die
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Mar 9, 2015 08:43
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I find having bleed heavy heroes makes short work of the Swine, including the Prince. They all have very low bleed resistance for their grade.
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Mar 9, 2015 09:22
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Angrymog posted:I find having bleed heavy heroes makes short work of the Swine, including the Prince. They all have very low bleed resistance for their grade. It also helps that DoT's stack in this game. I had the Swine Prince taking 11 blight damage a turn just from my grave digger throwing lawn darts at him every turn. On an offtopic note, is there any way to see if a character's more prone to thriving on stress rather than buckling? I think I've only ever seen the crusader and bounty hunter thrive frequently, and I had one vestal get a perk once. Meanwhile my Jester and Occultist always go batshit bonkers when the poo poo hits the fan.
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Mar 9, 2015 10:13
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Today I learned that plague doctors were actually a thing. Completely took me by surprise.
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Mar 9, 2015 10:36
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enraged_camel posted:Today I learned that plague doctors were actually a thing. Yup! I thought Assassin's Creed was taking liberties with the awesome robe and gas mask but nope, that's totally real.
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Mar 9, 2015 11:04
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enraged_camel posted:Today I learned that plague doctors were actually a thing. poptart_fairy posted:Yup! I thought Assassin's Creed was taking liberties with the awesome robe and gas mask but nope, that's totally real. ...what were you guys doing in history class?
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Mar 9, 2015 17:35
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TheRationalRedditor posted:The Swine Prince berserks and gets multiple attacks per turn and you die Swine prince is hilariously weak to debuffs, and occultists have a -25% damage / -10 acc one that you can get to stack up to 3x. Not saying it will make it easy and you won't die but it really does take an enormous bite out of the swine prince. Like the most annoying part is Wilbur stunning after he's dead and the fight itself is pretty easy.
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Mar 9, 2015 17:43
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PubicMice posted:...what were you guys doing in history class? Ours covered mostly wars and stuff. Plagues got a passing mention, but that wiki article is the first time I'm seeing a picture of a plague doctor.
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Mar 9, 2015 17:44
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PubicMice posted:...what were you guys doing in history class? I remember being told that people would just hold orange slices or something fragrant to their noses in those times but I don't think that plague doctors actually came up. We probably did learn about them but I probably don't remember anything about it.
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Mar 9, 2015 17:57
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Sloober posted:Swine prince is hilariously weak to debuffs, and occultists have a -25% damage / -10 acc one that you can get to stack up to 3x. Not saying it will make it easy and you won't die but it really does take an enormous bite out of the swine prince. Like the most annoying part is Wilbur stunning after he's dead and the fight itself is pretty easy. I'll have to try this, both times before he would hit almost every time after 2 adventurers went, hitting for in the teens.
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Mar 9, 2015 18:20
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Sloober posted:Swine prince is hilariously weak to debuffs, and occultists have a -25% damage / -10 acc one that you can get to stack up to 3x. Not saying it will make it easy and you won't die but it really does take an enormous bite out of the swine prince. Like the most annoying part is Wilbur stunning after he's dead and the fight itself is pretty easy.
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Mar 9, 2015 18:23
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enraged_camel posted:Ours covered mostly wars and stuff. To be fair other than presenting an interesting visual, plague doctors didn't do much to effect the course of the disease, other than mostly accelerating the course of the symptoms, and occasionally killing the patient with blood letting or cooking them alive. They just weren't historically significant for the most part.
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Mar 9, 2015 18:40
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