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JoshTheStampede posted:The pages long dogpile whenever anyone says they don't would seem to imply otherwise. People in this thread said have said they don't like Dominion plenty of times. The reason he's getting dog piled is because he's calling Dominion a starter game with little depth, which just isn't true. On top of that his actual arguments are very poor, and make it seem like he doesn't have a good grasp of the mechanics, despite the fact that he probably does, since hes played 40+ games of it.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:24
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JoshTheStampede posted:The pages long dogpile whenever anyone says they don't would seem to imply otherwise. The bigger issue is that most people don't say "I don't like this game just due to personal preference of what I look for in a game" they usually say "game X sucks because of Y". So of course fans of game X will argue the point if it's nonsense. It's okay to not like good games or to like bad games but you should try not to confuse personal preference for an actual reflection of design quality. This goes for stuff like movies, music, and literature and is basically the source of 90%+ of internet arguments about stuff like this.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:33
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Megasabin posted:People in this thread said have said they don't like Dominion plenty of times. The reason he's getting dog piled is because he's calling Dominion a starter game with little depth, which just isn't true. On top of that his actual arguments are very poor, and make it seem like he doesn't have a good grasp of the mechanics, despite the fact that he probably does, since hes played 40+ games of it. Actually I think this time the problem was that he complained about his BIL over-thinking the setup, and everyone assumed he was playing it with all the cards at once. His only mechanics problem is that his opponents apparently aren't good enough to require him playing more than the most basic strategy.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:36
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Guy A. Person posted:The bigger issue is that most people don't say "I don't like this game just due to personal preference of what I look for in a game" they usually say "game X sucks because of Y". So of course fans of game X will argue the point if it's nonsense. Also going on to say one or more of their lovely knock-offs is superior.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:46
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I love Argent Consortium. Crackbone said he had issues with it, issues I don't have. But what he didn't say is that it's over too fast. Got it?
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Mar 9, 2015 03:08
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Went out to a board game day today and played something called Arabian Nights. Might as well be called "Cross Referencing: The Game". I did not enjoy it, at all. There was no way to make meaningful choices in the game. Everything was randomized on huge charts and tables. Move to a place, draw a card, look up the number on a chart, roll a die to see what thing you encounter, pick your response to thing from a list (with no way to know which response gets which result), look up response in a HUGE loving BOOK of mini blurbs, read your result, pray that crazed beggar you helped isn't an evil djinn in disguise.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:21
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ConfusedUs posted:Went out to a board game day today and played something called Arabian Nights. Sounds like someone attacked a beggar. Yeah, that's basically Tales. If you go in expecting anything other than 'man, some bad poo poo is about to happen to this poor bastard', you're probably not going to like it.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:22
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Echophonic posted:Sounds like someone attacked a beggar. I ended up crippled when I helped my first beggar. The next guy got a beggar on a different chart, tried to rob him, and ended up wounded and ensorcelled. If there were any way to correlate action to reward it wouldn't be so bad. But by turn five I just said gently caress it and picked "Drink" every time it came up as an option. This worked surprisingly well, as I ended up as a Blessed, Married Vizier after drinking some Mystic Fire.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:25
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ConfusedUs posted:I ended up as a Blessed, Married Vizier after drinking some Mystic Fire. You basically nailed the appeal of the game. Hoping for more "game" than that is futile. You just have your Choose Your Own Adventure story running concurrently with the CYOA of the other players and you laugh at each other.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:27
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Gimnbo posted:You basically nailed the appeal of the game. Hoping for more "game" than that is futile. You just have your Choose Your Own Adventure story running concurrently with the CYOA of the other players and you laugh at each other. Yeah, that doesn't really do it for me. I dislike the lack of agency in the game. Multiplayer "Choose Your Own Adventure" is a very apt description of the game.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:31
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ConfusedUs posted:Yeah, that doesn't really do it for me. I dislike the lack of agency in the game.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:34
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Lorini posted:I love Argent Consortium. Crackbone said he had issues with it, issues I don't have. But what he didn't say is that it's over too fast. In terms of actual game length, god help me (but again, it was a game with a dude who was taking 3+ minutes per turn). In terms of rounds, I would agree - another round or two would let some engines start and potentially do interesting things.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:36
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Crackbone posted:In terms of actual game length, god help me (but again, it was a game with a dude who was taking 3+ minutes per turn). In terms of rounds, I would agree - another round or two would let some engines start and potentially do interesting things. I'm getting AP just reading that. Advising to run away from that player as fast as possible aside, there totally is a round 6 variant and scenarios add start-of-round effects and vary in length. Argent is almost as absurd in modular content as BattleCON....
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Mar 9, 2015 03:42
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Trynant posted:I'm getting AP just reading that. Yeah, I've got a guy in my group who takes similarly long terms (as does his brother). Fortunately, I also have people in my group who take very quick turns, so I'll just reserve that game for them.
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Mar 9, 2015 03:43
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Ojetor posted:For whatever reason, the author doesn't release it publicly. You have to contact him directly on BGG and ask him to email you a link to the latest version. I have a link from a few months ago, which I think is still the most recent version, but you might want to check with him directly. Rutibex posted:There was a good house rule posted a few pages back that might "heat up" your game of Munchkin. It will be snappier, it will also crackle and pop Thanks and double thanks
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Mar 9, 2015 04:25
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Your brother in law isn't spending forty minutes setting up the game because he doesn't know there are other options available, he's doing it because he's an rear end in a top hat. Megasabin posted:People in this thread said have said they don't like Dominion plenty of times. The reason he's getting dog piled is because he's calling Dominion a starter game with little depth, which just isn't true. On top of that his actual arguments are very poor, and make it seem like he doesn't have a good grasp of the mechanics, despite the fact that he probably does, since hes played 40+ games of it. I stand by what I said about it being a starter game. Absolutely fantastic to get people into the hobby but I have never played with a group of people, and I've played with and/or am part of a few gaming groups with pretty diverse likes and dislikes, where Dominion is not reached for outside of new people playing. You don't have to agree with my assessment of it being just a starter game but that is how we treat it. It does what it does well. The reason I enjoy this hobby is because of the wide variety of games i can play. I don't like being stuck playing any one game repeatedly in a night outside of maybe carcassonne when beer is involved ThisIsNoZaku posted:Also going on to say one or more of their lovely knock-offs is superior. I have no qualms with saying I enjoy High Command better. I play tested the game and enjoy the hell out of that game. It became stale once the "top" combos were figured out but expansions have made enough different types of decks and playstyle viable that it is another reach for game in our collection. The fact that it has player interaction in terms of fighting over land is a huge plus in our book. You still are building your engine, while looking out for good vp cards you've hopefully built it, while also trying to delay or snipe land. I like it. We don't have to agree on this fact, we won't in all honesty, and thats fine. Different taste for different people Completely unrelated. Buddy just texted me that he picked up Krosmaster arena wants to come by and try it this week. Apparently own at one of LGS recommended it. I pulled up some quick reviews and glanced over it. Is it pretty decent game or what? I can't help but think I'm looking at something akin to Super Dungeon explorer in just the "heroes fighting, getting units different abilities[/b] except instead of ganging up on the Dungeon guy your just trying to kill each other
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Mar 9, 2015 04:39
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Once again, this adds proof to my hypothesis that most people's complaints about Dominion come from not being very good at it. Anyway, I've only got a few Puzzle Strike games under my belt, but it's definitely Dominion with more directly combative interaction and none of the shuffling. It's worth a look if you want a deck-builder core mechanic but are burnt out on the King of the genre.
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Mar 9, 2015 04:49
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sector_corrector posted:Once again, this adds proof to my hypothesis that most people's complaints about Dominion come from not being very good at it. So people who don't like Munchkin are bad at it? Or is it just people that dislike Dominion? Anyway, I'm planning on getting Argent to the table this week. Any tips for first time players or teaching it? Echophonic fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 05:08
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Echophonic posted:So people who don't like Munchkin are bad at it? Or is it just people that dislike Dominion?
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Mar 9, 2015 05:11
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Man, I loving suck at Dominion and that's no lie. Like, I can do pretty well using the basic set starter board because once you figure out the tricks to that it's pretty simple stuff, but I've been playing the Dominion Online thing against the AI and basically as soon as the board gets a little more complicated the bots just stomp my poo poo in so badly its embarrassing. I know it lets you do things like spend "Zaps" to boost your starting hand or devalue the AI's hand but screw that noise.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:24
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Echophonic posted:So people who don't like Munchkin are bad at it? Or is it just people that dislike Dominion? I'm talking specifically about the common complaints that I see, the major one being that it's "multiplayer solitaire", which is something that an inexperienced player will think (or a player with a lot of experience who never gets real competition), but which is demonstrably untrue once you get into the game.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:32
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ConfusedUs posted:Yeah, that doesn't really do it for me. I dislike the lack of agency in the game. The fundamental problem with it is framing the game as something you should try to win, when it should just try to be a bunch of cool interwoven stories. I wish the game just went for a set number of turns since it never feels like a triumphant conclusion, even for the person who lucks into winning, but that would basically require the whole thing to be gutted and restructured. (Basically, it should be more like The Yawhg.) It's an entertaining time as long as you don't expect anything but a group storytelling experience where hilarious things will happen to everyone along the way to wherever they end up by the end. If you play it again, here's a bunch of house rules I've thrown together to make the negative status effects less of a drag and more just a bump in the road in your story. I normally dislike required house rules as much as the rest of this thread, but there's nothing quite like Arabian Nights, even if it is a mess I have to try to fix.
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Mar 9, 2015 05:37
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Echophonic posted:So people who don't like Munchkin are bad at it? Or is it just people that dislike Dominion? Just Dominion, amusingly. No one ever gets dogpiled for saying they're burned out on it, only for saying it's a bad game.
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Mar 9, 2015 06:31
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^^^ I think generally if you are going to call a game bad, you might need some reasons for it.Tiny Chalupa posted:Saying I like Thunderstone more is most likely due to burn out on Dominion. I am willing to say that as we only played it once. It had moments of frustration, being blocked out from the Dungeon phase due to high lvl monsters, but the group made it enjoyable. I would like to know how you feel after playing Eminent Domain. It's the only deck-builder I've played that doesn't feel like it is just some garbage clone of Dominion. (I haven't played Mage Knight, sorry thread!) Echophonic posted:Anyway, I'm planning on getting Argent to the table this week. Any tips for first time players or teaching it? I'm about to try it for the first time tomorrow. I'll see how it goes. I think I have a pretty good grasp on it, but I haven't read all the cards or rooms. I'm going to go with the suggested rooms setup for new games, and going to skip drafting mages in lieu of everyone getting one of each (or whatever the variant in the book says).
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Mar 9, 2015 08:52
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Echophonic posted:Anyway, I'm planning on getting Argent to the table this week. Any tips for first time players or teaching it? Definitely go with the recommended setup to start. Also, one variant that I heard of and used on my first play (which people seemed to enjoy) is to give every player one wizard of each non-neutral color instead of drafting wizards (obviously you do not use the neutral mage leader if you do this). That way everyone gets the chance to play with the mechanics and nobody feels slighted that they chose the "wrong" mage type before the game even starts. I would also repeatedly emphasize what the victory condition is. My first game ended 7-3-2-0 on votes, with me having 7 due to leading on IP, having 10 marks, and because IP breaks ties and I knew almost all the victory conditions, I knew what to optimize and thus what to win on. The guy who scored 0 points had only his starting mark and didn't pick up a single supporter all game long. I did tell him repeatedly what the victory condition was, but he seemed content to buy up legendary spells and cool treasures and then proceed to lose the game because he had no idea what we were actually competing on. My 7 votes involved four tiebreaks, so it would have been fairly simple for each player to focus a little harder on the victory conditions they were close to me on and force me to get only 4-5 votes instead. 10 marks is also assuredly overkill - the only reason that I got that many is that the default layout has spaces that give IP and marks at the same time, and along with supporters, I kept getting them from random sources. Never underestimate supporters. Also, you might think that secret supporters are a waste of time, but because each player can only use the council chamber once on their turn, in the default layout the only way to get ahead of the curve is to get secret supporters somehow. They also give you a huge leg up on school dominance and diversity votes because your opponents have no idea how much power you have in each school until the very end of the game.
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Mar 9, 2015 09:16
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I actually managed to get Space Alert to the table this weekend. It's only been 6 months since I got it. Fun was had, confusion happened and we died horribly. Working as intended.Tiny Chalupa posted:You don't have to agree with my assessment of it being just a starter game but that is how we treat it. It does what it does well. So Dominion is a starter game because you only play it with people new to the hobby. Got it. But there is a good point in here. Most groups I've been part of have Dominion but don't play Dominion. My experience is that they will get Dominion as a good introduction to boardgames and then either play it to death (leading to buying other games after they burn out) or get so much into the hobby that they start buying other stuff, and shiny and new games are always more attractive. Once in a while we'll play it while waiting for someone to arrive, either 2p or 3p, and it's still great, but as soon as we have 4 players no one will say "let's play 2 games of Dominion.“ Lord Frisk posted:I don't like dominion. Too much shuffling. I can get behind this. Maybe starting my boardgame career with Pathfinder made me loathe shuffling.
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Mar 9, 2015 10:16
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Dominion is like the Soylent of games. It has absolutely everything you need, but it lacks all the great things that you don't technically need, and that bums some people out. I know that eating a steak is not really as efficient as Soylent, but the thing tastes so much better, so I'm willing to suffer a bit of "malnutrition" and some cooking for it. For clarity, mechanical depth is equated with nutritional value in the metaphor. I should also probably stop using metaphors about Dominion. And in general shut up about it. Arabian Nights (as far as I understand) falls in the exact opposite pitch: It's basically a deep fried Mars bar, in that it will taste absolutely amazing*, but gently caress up your body and any plan for nutrition you had, while providing you with almost no good stuff. *I have bad taste in other things than games, yes.
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Mar 9, 2015 10:17
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Arabian Nights is stone soup. The game itself doesn't have much, but you can enjoy it if people bring good stuff to share. A deep fried Mars bar would be something like Munchkin: seemed like a good idea in the middle of the carnival, but you regret it later.
Bruceski fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 11:36
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Echophonic posted:Anyway, I'm planning on getting Argent to the table this week. Any tips for first time players or teaching it? There's a rewritten rulebook on BGG - it's not official but it's much better organized and covers a lot of things you'd typically get wrong in a play through.
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Mar 9, 2015 12:16
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Arabian Nights is basically the raddest board "game." Not too many games out there where I can be within a turn of winning and then decide I'd rather go off and do some other adventures first.
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Mar 9, 2015 12:21
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TotAN is the quintessential 'once a year' game, because if you play it any more than that you see how repetitive the adventures actually are, you can actually remember what happened in the last few games (and hence avoid pitfalls) and the game mechanisms don't stand up if looked at anything other than a purely superficial level. I'll never buy it but I'll happily play it (once a year).
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Mar 9, 2015 12:24
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The metaphors are making highschoolers look like gifted poets in here. Dominion is a pure euro, plain and simple. People who enjoy clever, tuned mechanisms will have a good time with it, but it's not going to be a slam dunk with the Ameritrash crowd. The same criticism can be levelled at games like Castles of Burgundy or Puerto Rico. Some people like intricate design, others want cool minis. Such is life. TotAN is a weird game to be sure, but it's the best of the story telling games I've played. Agents of SMERSH bolts a mediocre plate spinning game to the framework, and doesn't really become any better a game for it. Eldritch Horror has proper mechanisms, but the stories are disjointed and aren't nearly as evocative or effective a narrative when taken together.
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Mar 9, 2015 12:29
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Tekopo posted:TotAN is the quintessential 'once a year' game, because if you play it any more than that you see how repetitive the adventures actually are, you can actually remember what happened in the last few games (and hence avoid pitfalls) and the game mechanisms don't stand up if looked at anything other than a purely superficial level. I'll never buy it but I'll happily play it (once a year). I wonder if a person could play enough TotAN that they could figure out actual "good" strategies. I am sure there are chains of events that could be found to reliably lead to big bonuses or powerful artifacts like the Magic Lamp if you knew the game inside and out 
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Mar 9, 2015 12:56
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Rutibex posted:I wonder if a person could play enough TotAN that they could figure out actual "good" strategies. I am sure there are chains of events that could be found to reliably lead to big bonuses or powerful artifacts like the Magic Lamp if you knew the game inside and out 
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Mar 9, 2015 13:07
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The End posted:The metaphors are making highschoolers look like gifted poets in here. Dominion is a pure euro, plain and simple. People who enjoy clever, tuned mechanisms will have a good time with it, but it's not going to be a slam dunk with the Ameritrash crowd. The same criticism can be levelled at games like Castles of Burgundy or Puerto Rico. Some people like intricate design, others want cool minis. Such is life. Yes of course, the only options are love Dominion or love Zombicide. Do you even realize how condescending this sounds? Anyone who doesn't like it is an Ameritrash babby who doesn't like clever mechanics and just wants shiny minis, great.
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Mar 9, 2015 13:19
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Christ, I just knew some pedant was going to come and post exactly that sentiment. Yes, of course most people are going to be in between the two extremes. I figured it was going to be self evident that I'm more referring to people's leanings more than any hard, binary distinction, because hey, that's how things are in the real world and most people can infer from the identification of the two extremes that the middle ground exists. I thought that idea was so perfunctory that it didn't require spelling out, but there you go.
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Mar 9, 2015 13:24
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Ok so the answer is no, you do not realize how condescending it sounds, glad to clear that up.
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Mar 9, 2015 13:27
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Tekopo posted:I don't doubt that you could. I'd be a loving boring way to play but it could be done. The problem i that the game as a whole is spoiled by people 'knowing too much' The problem with TotAN is that it includes all these cool places like the Cave of Wonder and the Djinni Palace or whatever on the board and provides absolutely no clue about how you are supposed to get to these places. If there was just some strategy and a way to direct your fate (apart from, say, trying to steal a lot because you happen to have the Steal skill) I would probably like the game more.
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Mar 9, 2015 13:33
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JoshTheStampede posted:Ok so the answer is no, you do not realize how condescending it sounds, glad to clear that up. You're a loving idiot.
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Mar 9, 2015 13:35
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Rumda posted:You're a loving idiot.
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