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Daerc posted:I interpreted that as Einander saying that Diggers that don't respect the Megaliths get turned into the purple dog monsters, as that's what seems to flow most naturally from what was written. Clarste posted:Well, apparently Phillipe softened up a lot during this time, given the way he talks to his son about "Uncle Gustave". I imagine Gustave did everything he could to foster that during those 5 years.
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Mar 7, 2015 03:31
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Huh. Who would be Gustave's enemy that would frame him for his nephew's murder? Philippe was antagonistic for a while, but obviously he wouldn't do this. Or is it someone on Gustave's side who thinks Gustave deserves to rule despite Gus himself not giving a poo poo? As far as major dudes we've already seen, I don't know of anyone who fits the bill for this.
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Mar 7, 2015 03:42
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dis astranagant posted:Gustave's spending his days running his new city and nothing particularly noteworthy has happened in that time. Five years of Fixed Also, there's one thing that I dislike about the next scene. Dislike is too strong a word, but... I think they did something they shouldn't have done yet.
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Mar 7, 2015 03:47
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Why does the room containing Firebrand change?
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Mar 7, 2015 04:22
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It felt like they were setting up Phillipe as Gustave's main antagonist but SaGa's all like "ahahaha you thought you knew where the plot was going, that's precious  "I really like the next chapter.
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Mar 7, 2015 04:25
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I don't think they ever explain why the staging area changes, I think it's to convey a feeling of isolation in the perspective of the person attempting the Firebrand Ceremony.
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Mar 7, 2015 04:26
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Imma guess it was the sister, solely because if I was her, I woulda done it. Too much CK2 does things to a man who sees titles within reach...
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Mar 7, 2015 04:29
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Well, that's one way to emphasize the danger of Quells.
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Mar 7, 2015 05:40
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Did whoever hired that asssassin really think blaming Gustave like that would work? Because that's kind of stupid.
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Mar 7, 2015 06:12
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Ah, the Dragon stage of grief. Probably the second-hardest to move past and heal.
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Mar 7, 2015 06:17
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Man don't you just hate it when your nephew is randomly assassinated and your brother gets so upset he turns into a dragon and flies off? Every goddamn time.
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Mar 7, 2015 07:04
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Einander posted:Gustave Exiled (1227) I always found it strange that the last update talks about the Firebrand being dangerous and consuming those who touch it, yet at the beginning it's just glossed over that anyone with anima can use it.
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Mar 7, 2015 11:05
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bar88537 posted:I always found it strange that the last update talks about the Firebrand being dangerous and consuming those who touch it, yet at the beginning it's just glossed over that anyone with anima can use it. Well, back in Gustave XII's time, it was relatively benign - the royal family was naturally raised with the proper knowledge and respect to utilize it properly. Then Gustave XIII was a soulless, anima-less anomaly, and the King couldn't be arsed to give a gently caress after that point and teach Phillipe. Even then, Phillipe (and/or Gustave) knew enough to teach Phillipe II how to do it... except they didn't teach him how to not die from a piddly little crossbow bolt. He's 7 in a JRPG, it should've taken a small army to bring him down. 
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Mar 7, 2015 11:13
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bar88537 posted:I always found it strange that the last update talks about the Firebrand being dangerous and consuming those who touch it, yet at the beginning it's just glossed over that anyone with anima can use it. I think the trick to really powerful Quells like that is not overdoing things. Adults have been training with much lower powered tools that need more effort to get results out of then they grab on to something with some real power and instead of a light show they get an all consuming firestorm powered by everything they have. A little kid trying his best can't muster up enough anima to get carried away and then learns how to use it properly as he grows up.
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Mar 7, 2015 11:16
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KataraniSword posted:Well, back in Gustave XII's time, it was relatively benign - the royal family was naturally raised with the proper knowledge and respect to utilize it properly. Then Gustave XIII was a soulless, anima-less anomaly, and the King couldn't be arsed to give a gently caress after that point and teach Phillipe. Dude was a single on-map sprite. Who knows how many people actually assassinated him in the battle system. They probably combo'd too. No one survives combo's in SaGa games 
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Mar 7, 2015 11:17
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Einander posted:I've always thought there was a fourth miner somewhere (maybe just because the first At The Mines has four?), but I don't think I've ever found him.  . (ger101)
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Mar 7, 2015 13:18
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Man why isn't this on PSN. 
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Mar 7, 2015 18:49
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GunnerJ posted:Why does the room containing Firebrand change? My bet? The Firebrand chamber is part of a Megalith they built a castle around. It certainly explains the Firebrand's ability to float and the way it always returns to its pedestal. Maybe more parts of the castle are part of the old Megalith! Who knows. It also adds a nice touch of why the gently caress would you do that, are you idiots to the situation. bar88537 posted:I always found it strange that the last update talks about the Firebrand being dangerous and consuming those who touch it, yet at the beginning it's just glossed over that anyone with anima can use it. Anyone with Anima can use it, any child with Anima can use it safely. It's mentioned in one of Wil's scenarios (Desert Megalith or Infiltrate!, one of the two) that only powerful Anima-users can live on Thermes's Main Street--this may or may not still be true by this point, considering Gustave, but we can assume it. Keep in mind, then, that in that bar on a street full of top-percentile mages, only the old man knew to be afraid, and he only knew because he lived long enough to see it go wrong. Most people who aren't Diggers don't know to show Quells their proper respect. Simply Simon posted:Actually, after the last big writing reform, "Missgestalt" is the correct spelling! ß has always been used for both hard and soft s sounds without a real system to it, but now it's always only ß after drawn-out vowels and double vowels (so Scheiße stays the same), but double s replaces ß now after short vowels Oh, that's good to know! I learned German from someone who was at the Too Old For This poo poo part of his career, so I'd actually missed that entirely. I'll have to unlearn the "they're exactly equivalent" reflex, then.
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Mar 7, 2015 19:11
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The Firebrand Ceremony: Chickenpox for royal mages.
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Mar 7, 2015 19:46
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Anima Faith Fiasco (1256) Wil goes off to the Ruins of Hahn upon hearing rumors of the Anima Faith and the Egg. 1256 Gustave assaults the Anima Followers Gustave announces the intent to eradicate the Anima Followers, Philippe's murderers. 1256 Wil heads for the hidden base of the Anima Followers Wil looks for the Anima Faith, possessors of the Egg, but gets caught up in Gustave's assault on the Faith.  It's been almost twenty years since we've seen the Egg... But I think we all knew this was coming sooner or later.  (Novel)   It's been a while since we've been here, too... In 1246, about a decade ago. Wil's been doing this for twenty-one years now.  Two familiar faces and one new one. Remember that you can skip Patrick in Tycoon Wil. If you do, this is the first time you've met. This changes his dialogue here:  Hi.Otherwise, he recognizes you just fine. It has been a while, Wil.Let's talk to the new guy, then Tyler.  What do you want, stranger?  Yo, Wil. It's been a while. How's life back in Wide?  There's no conflict like we have over here. It's a great place to live. Wide is near Jade, on the peaceful (that is, already conquered) Southern Continent, while Westia is in the Lordless Lands, which Gustave is quite happily taking over with his steel army. So what brings you over here from a nice place like that? I came here because I heard rumors about the Anima Followers. There are lots of rumors flying around here. Such as Lord Philippe's assassins were of the faith, or, that Lord Gustave is going to annihilate the Anima Faith in the near future, and so on and so forth.   Well, innocent or guilty, I think it's safe to say that if Gustave really believes that, then they are so hosed. The only rumor that caught my attention was that the Anima Followers had got hold of the Egg. I intend to meet them to confirm this. There are rumors like that? I've heard that the Anima Followers are gathering secretly and hiding out in the Ruins of Hahn. Let's go check it out. Hey Raymond. You haven't met Wil yet have you? Wil, this is Raymond. His skill with the bow is noteworthy. Raymond, meet William Knights. Tycoon Wil!! It's an honor to meet you. I am Raymond. Please, let me accompany you on this mission. The pleasure is mine. Please come with us. If you didn't recruit Patrick before, there's additional dialogue here.  Was this your first time, too? That's Patrick over there. Tycoon Wil, it's a pleasure to meet you.If you talk to him afterward: Nice working with you.If you recruited him, he instead says: It's nice working with you again.The others have things to say, too. I've become old. I think it's almost time to retire.Tyler, I know Axes get really bad really soon, but... I will miss you so, so much.  I look forward to working with you.Aging! We've seen Wil a little sooner than the other two, so his stats don't quite match up. Wil's aged five years (31->36) and gained 22 HP (440->462), 2 WP (49->51) and 2 SP (125->127). Adding it to last time's gains, Wil's nine years (27->36) is a gain of 48 HP, 3 WP and 3 SP. Tyler's aged nine years (37->46) and lost 3 HP (561->558), lost 2 WP (95->93) and gained 2 SP (71->73). Patrick's aged nine years (17->26) and gained 73 HP (442->515), 10 WP (62->72), 7 SP (78->85) and +1 LP (12->13). Gains in the thirties don't seem much worse than the teens and twenties, but they drop off pretty steeply in the later thirties and in the forties.  Raymond is the second real bowman (assuming you count Labelle, even though you have no reason to use her). He's pretty weedy right now (especially since he's being compared to Patrick, who is made of beef), but his Bow skill level is impressively high to start and he grows well. His Alligator Armor is pretty decent, too--+15 to physical defenses, +8 to magical ones, +5 SP, no special effects. His Role is Defense, which is the party version of Patrick's WALL: all other characters gain 10% more defense from each piece of armor. The question is why this is attached to the character with half of everyone else's HP. WALL and Defense really should have been switched, character-wise. (He also comes with Delta Petra equipped, should you not have learned it on your own, but Patrick already comes with it; it's strangely redundant.)  Raymond is a good reason to grab the Elven Lyre after Tycoon Wil, even if you don't fight the Lich--a 28 attack weapon with infinite durability does a lot for him, even if Tone isn't a very useful Anima for non-Mages.  (I've learned no Bow Arts whatsoever, so I just stick Incineration on him for now; the Ruins have Stone Environmental Anima and he already has Flame-Tree-Beast-Tone. I could give him Hymnal too! Or Firestorm. No real reason to, though.)   uh, don't think anima works that like that guys just saying   They're a suspicious gang that whole-heartedly believes that the power of the Anima is the only truth in this world. Probably due to this belief, the Followers seem to have much hostility towards Gustave, [sic] and others not gifted with Anima.You might say that they have some serious animus towards him. Eh? Eh?  moving on That's the last time we'll ever talk to that informant, by the way. It's a neat thing, and it's sad that there's not really another equivalent. (A Marvelous Thing)  One benefit of actually having Wil's Departure before Anima Faith Fiasco is that you can enter through the South Entrance and skip most of the actual dungeon here. The Anima Faith is past the area Wil wouldn't enter the first time around, when there was a "really scary monster," and there's no new items or enemies in any of the areas accessible in Wil's Departure.  (Depths)  I run through, avoiding most enemies (I'm too high-leveled for them to be very useful)... But there's one old friend I need to stop by before we get to the new area.  Hey! Old buddy old pal! I take a moment to have Wil learn some of the spells I skipped out on before, since he's roughly three times as tough now.  Sonic Sanctuary, a Tone-Stone spell. "Magic Up" means "Magic Defense Up." ("Psyche" is magic attack.)  Permanence, a Water-Stone-Tree spell. Prevents negative statuses, but positive statuses work just fine, and it seems to have no effect on Stun. I also try for Stone Memory (Tone-Stone petrify, seems to have a better success rate than Delta Petra), but Wil isn't very good at learning Tone spells. He uses them just fine! But he doesn't learn them very well.  Berserk (Beast anima, Beast-Beast-Beast duel command) is an interesting spell. Sometimes, when you use it, it just gives you Morale Up (increased physical damage), but most of the time...  ...it'll give you the Berserk status, greatly increasing physical damage but making spells completely inaccessible. (This includes Hybrids.) You can turn anyone into Gustave for a few turns! It wears off pretty quickly, but it's not a bad way to increase damage mid-game, especially since you still seem able to combo even while Berserk. If there's someone who can't really contribute, then they can always Berserk your stronger fighters. I also have Raymond pick up most of the Hybrid Arts. Unlike most weapons, there's actually some degree of choice in what Hybrid to train with!     (The animation for Windbreaker is hard as hell to parse, even in action--he shoots the enemy as a tornado comes out of them towards him, I guess? And then there's a giant explosion of sparks. Death Shot's Anima animation is just great, though: apparently Flame+Tree = SCIENCE) Death Shot is weaker, but it has an instant death effect and trains Flame-Tree, letting the user cast Firestorm and Incineration decently well. Against tougher enemies, it trains tree for Windbreaker, a 60-power Tree Hybrid. Meanwhile, Flame Bird is a great gimmick--it damages the enemy and heals you, and while the power isn't great, you don't get any other Arts on any weapon or spell category that can do that. Flame-Beast isn't used in any good offensive spells, but the Beast Hybrid Spectral Shot is the strongest Bow Hybrid (even if 66 isn't impressive at all by Hybrid standards). Plus, if you're freakishly lucky, you might hit 25 Beast for the Axe and Bow Custom Tools! (you won't) Raymond is much better with Tree than Flame or Beast, so I have him using Death Shot from here on out. The last Bow user is much better at the magic side of this, so there's more of an argument with him. (Also, Flame Bird is a pain in the rear end to learn at this point so I really didn't want to bother.)   Hi-Speed Arrow is the workhorse of Bows when it comes to boss battles and the like, costing 7 WP for 64 attack and comboing fairly well. It's the penultimate Bow Art, and it's much easier to learn than Crystal Prism. Of course, Crystal Prism does have 20 more power on it...  I may not ever have a reason to duel with Patrick, so here's his Duel sprite. The perspective on it is... kind of hosed. We're talking "female comic book character" levels. Don't look at it too closely, you'll go mad.  That's my business with that done, so let's move on to new territory.  This area is a sort of short intermission: a brief area with people and no monsters before we return to the dungeon proper. This is one of the places where the Anima Faith live.   Well, that theory's going to be put to the test real soon, if the rumors are anything to go by. (You can't get the treasure behind them... Yet.)  The dungeon resumes through the left door here.  He just tells you you're not allowed through the door.   On one hand, if Gustave shows up, they're probably all going to die and that's sad. On the other hand, if Gustave shows up, it'll be a Steel army against the kind of people who say stuff like this. It's funny in a really, really dark way. (or maybe I'm just a bad person)  We came in through down-left. Progress up-left, dead end up-right, treasure down-right under the bridge.  The treasure is a pair of Alligator Shoes. The guardian is a Land Urchin and some Demon Seeds, all of which wouldn't have been very dangerous back in Wil's Departure. This scenario is very doable even with a totally default party, especially since Wil and Tyler will have about +150 HP on default just from age bonuses. The Alligator Shoes are +7 to physical defenses and +6 to magical. They're two defense better than the Fur Boots unless you're facing something that uses Cold, because the Fur Boots have +37 Cold, and one defense better than the Rubber Soles unless you're facing something with Lightning, because the Rubber Soles have +37 Lightning. So really you should just stick with one of those two, even if the elements are rare, because +1 or +2 to defense doesn't matter and +30 is a LOT.  The treasure is an Ark Stone. There's more Anima Faith followers up-right in another little safe area.   yeah, about that  Moving down here puts you on the other side of the Alligator Shoes area.  This isn't even the scenario with the most random Ark Stone treasures. I'm happy for the 100 Chips, I guess? There's still not really any use for Ark Stones in a scenario other than the final one, and you want to use Soul Crystals/Life Seeds/Anima Crystals there because they also restore LP. Party WP/SP restoration is a solution looking for a problem.  More Anima Faith to the left, progress upward.   I could really just reply to each group of Anima Faith followers with "yeah, about that." It conveys exactly the right sense of awkward "you might be very surprised very soon."   Progress right, nothing in particular further up.  You'd think this would be another way out, like the South Entrance to the Ruins, but you can't actually exit here.   Wil is probably the game's best mage, just by virtue of having a LOT of combat scenarios and having good general affinities. He's currently at 31 Water and 28 Tree/Tone. Presumably by "even you," he means, "you really don't need to be eating any tiger hearts, you've got enough Anima already."  The music stops for a moment, but the distinct darkening and noise of the Egg are absent. (thinking) I'm not sensing anything. He's not the one with the Egg. (Seclusion)  Who's that handsome devil? A new general of Gustave's?  Good. Don't let any of the Followers escape.  There seems to be a considerable number of monsters down in the dungeon. What shall we do? This will be a good opportunity to take them out along with the Followers.  Actually, Gustave finally got an aged-up sprite to reflect his growth. He was Gustave--now he's Gustave the Steel.    (thinking) I agree that Lord Philippe's assassination was probably conducted by the Anima Followers. But more than half of them are just normal people that have nothing to do with it. Nothing will come of this bloodshed. Hate only gives way to more hate.Kelvin may not agree, but he understands that he can't be seen arguing with Gustave right before this sort of thing.   But Gustave doesn't even need to hear Kelvin voice his doubts to understand. It's not going to look good, it's not really going to accomplish much, and a lot of innocent people are going to die. He knows all that... He just doesn't care. This is personal. (Depths)  (thinking) It should've been no problem for the possessor to become the leader of this faith with the power of the Egg.Well, this was a bust as far as the Egg goes, and also everyone still in the Ruins in about fifteen minutes is going to die, so we really should get out now. Even a great hero won't be able to stand up against continuous attacks by multiple enemies. (You can head back in to the room with the cult leader, but you can't interact with him in any way.) When you cross a couple of screens, the music will change.  (Discord) (Or just "disharmony" but that's an awkward word. Really, the song should have been called 'OH GOD EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE' (except in German), for reasons that will be very obvious if you listen to it.)   The Anima Faith followers are now running around like headless chickens. On one hand, they're going to die tragic deaths. On the other hand, this means monsters are gone from most of the rooms on the way back, and they've left the rooms they were in before, so now we can grab their treasure!  dammit game I was SO CLOSE to actually converting all my crowns away at 1:1 Battle music also shifts from Feldschlacht I to II at this point (from the usual battle music to the 'dangerous battle' music). Each of the treasure rooms is guarded by a blue Skeleton (same as earlier in the Ruins), and like before, Ghosts will usually show up with them if you fight Party battles instead of duels. Instant death and high defenses still make them sort of dangerous, even to an experienced party, and if you come in here fresh from going through all of Gustave's scenarios they'll probably kill you! (Especially since you won't have Water on everyone.)     I should reiterate that money isn't really that important in this game. Even if you decide to buy three Paladin weapons when you head to Hahn Nova, you're still only spending 13500 Crowns. Custom Weapons are more expensive--about 1000-2000 Crowns and 1000 Chips--but you get plenty of the Chips for that from rewards. There's not much else you really want from stores. Sure, you can repair gear, but what's the point when you get enough weapons to replace broken ones and most weapon types have a Quell available at a decent point? These Crowns aren't going to do much for me.     (vooorm)  I should probably mention that you can't backtrack during this sequence.  You're pretty unlikely to miss things, though, considering how simple this area is. Also, if you talk to people at this point, Wil reacts differently. To wit, he always says a line before theirs:      Think about what they're telling us by putting Wil here. Gustave's always had a simmering anger underneath his skin, and that assassin took away a family he'd spent a long time without just as they were beginning to truly reconcile. To him, this is personal. The Anima Faith may be mostly harmless and mostly innocent, but he's making a point: gently caress with him or his family and you will burn. The Egg may be quite dangerous, but they don't reveal its presence until Wil's already run past rooms and rooms of innocents. There's some time pressure, true, but he doesn't so much as lift a hand to help... And when the Egg does show itself, he drops all pretense. It says something about a character when they're being compared to a mass murderer and coming off as less sympathetic.  dammit stop giving me all this money this close to the end of the generation  The soldiers are blocking both of the ways we've already passed through, but the blocked door from earlier is open.    Several fishmen jump out of the water...  ...and the reverend falls.  And then we fight them for some reason?  These enemies have less than 1000 HP. No, seriously. You can come in here with no Arts sparked at all and a fresh party and they're barely a speedbump. Wil could end this battle with a single Hymnal.  Yep.   (The Outside World)  1256 Gustave assaults the Anima Followers Gustave announces the intent to eradicate the Anima Followers, Philippe's murderers. 1256 Wil heads for the hidden base of the Anima Followers Wil looks for the Anima Faith, possessors of the Egg, but gets caught up in Gustave's assault on the Faith. Wil gained +20 HP, +3 Tree, +1 Water, +2 Tone. 28/31/28--that's actually seriously impressive. 25 skill level is already very good. Tyler gained +18 HP, +3 WP, +5 SP, +3 Axe, +5 Flame. 31/19, so he's caught up to Wil in Axe, at least. Patrick gained +3 HP, +5 WP, +5 SP, +1 Staff, +3 Tree. 22/15 Staff/Tree. Raymond gained +17 HP, +3 WP, +4 SP, +5 Bow, +3 Tree, +4 Flame. 21/10/9--catching up to Patrick very quickly, considering, but he still hasn't cracked 300 HP. It's weird how Ghoul Tower is much more dangerous and its random fights much less profitable, especially considering I did much more fighting there. As always, I head off to convert away some of my crowns. (Between later rewards and such I'm pretty sure I've already gotten all the money I need for the Hahn Nova trip, I'm just hoarding it)  Enough time has passed for Vogelang's shop to upgrade to its second generation line-up. The main result is that you can't buy more Coral Rings and it's a bit more annoying to convert Crowns:Chips, since Blue Water and Scale Visors both convert 4:1 instead of the 2:1 of Rock Hearts. Gruegel's stock won't ever change, though, and Stone Knives convert 2:1. Vogelang's stock will change one more time. Next time, the climactic ending of the first Knights generation: Wil vs. Egg. Next (chronological): Wil vs. Egg (1257) Next (Knights): Wil vs. Egg (1257) Next (Gustave): Johan the Assassin (1260) [Secret History] Einander fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 01:49
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Einander posted:
I always saw Tycoon Wil as a turning point. Up until then, Wil is the plucky heroic adventurer who scrapes by and finds the magnificent treasures. Then you get shown exactly what happens when you don't treat Quells with the proper respect. By someone else named Wil, no less. So you think that here's this perfect object lesson that keeps your protagonist humble. And nope! Wil becomes so obsessed with the Egg that he'll easily run past screaming civilians about to be slaughtered, only caring if they have the Egg or not. The passage of time: your hero becomes an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:18
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I love Gustave and his cloak of doom, just wish they waited a little while to reveal it. Also, I can't remember if it's been shown off or described, but have you ever had that weird thing happen during a duel? The best way I could describe it is you and the enemy attack simultaneously. And we've finally reached the tipping point. Captain Knights is definitely, irredeemably obsessed with hunting the great white
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Mar 10, 2015 02:24
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To be fair, there isn't a lot of help he could give that wouldn't involve his head on a pike.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:25
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Ayana posted:I always saw Tycoon Wil as a turning point. Up until then, Wil is the plucky heroic adventurer who scrapes by and finds the magnificent treasures. Then you get shown exactly what happens when you don't treat Quells with the proper respect. By someone else named Wil, no less. So you think that here's this perfect object lesson that keeps your protagonist humble. It kind of makes sense from this angle: "The Egg is evil, and much more dangerous than normal quells. And normal quells are dangerous enough as it is! Therefore, the most important thing is to get rid of the egg. The anima followers might have it, so best to be suspicious of them." And from there, he slips to "It's here! Screw these sheep, if the Egg gets away they're probably better off dead anyway!"
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Mar 10, 2015 02:26
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To me it seems like Wil knows what's really going on in trying to get the Egg. Heck the Faith Followers are pretty worried about Gustave coming in and doing exactly what he will do and one of them even outs the Higher Ups as being the problem. Unfortunately Gustave can't take the chance that he'll let those responsible for the Assassination getting away. I think there's some political bent there too: you don't just get away with murdering the King-To-Be and trying to frame him for it. Rumors are unfortunately enough for him to order troops there. Of course with that political bent there is the possibility of another: that someone released rumors that the Anima Faith did it so they'd provoke Gustave into getting rid of the Faith. It's very Game of Thrones'-ish. I think the Egg would want that because it's kinda tired of not messing something up and considers the Faith to be a bunch of hippies. Which in turn makes Wil sympathetic because the Egg is just that dangerous. FeyerbrandX posted:I love Gustave and his cloak of doom, just wish they waited a little while to reveal it. That's actually a random thing in battles, it's a 'cross counter' style maneuver where you both get your attacks in.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:44
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I think it's less that Wil's gone Captain Ahab here, and more that he's seen firsthand just how dangerous the Egg is, and now that it's pinged his Anima radar, his top priority is finding and eliminating it. Not because he wants revenge, but because he's one of the few people alive who realizes just how much of a threat it is. Yeah, all these innocent people are about to get slaughtered by Gustave the Steel. Tragic, but that's nothing compared to the potential danger the Egg poses in the wrong hands. Remember the desert where this thing was originally found? Would you like Westia to wind up like that? Finney? Hey, about Hahn Vegas before it's even finished being built? That's the kind of potential doom Wil's thinking about here if the Egg manages to slip away again. He's sacrificing lives in the short term in the hopes of averting something worse down the road. Yeah, it sucks that he's putting tracking down the Egg above saving a bunch of innocent lives. But given the circumstances that led to this point, I'd hardly call him an rear end in a top hat for it. And as others have pointed out, if he intervenes on behalf of the innocents, he runs the risk of being taken out by Gustave's troops along with them.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:55
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It'd be assholish obsession if Wil wanted the Egg for himself. But when you're dealing with a doomsday weapon that most people don't even realize exists, I think it's understandable that you'd become focused on the threat it poses. Gustave's not gonna know how to deal with the Egg, after all; he's never heard of it and he probably can't even sense it. Most of his men are probably similarly useless. Plus Wil hasn't seen the Egg in like twenty years. He thought it was gone for good, and now he realizes it won't allow itself to be gotten rid of so easily.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:07
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I'm pretty sure there's some point in the second part where you can run into/away from Gustave's army, but it's been a while. There really isn't time to save anyone.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:12
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Point of order: why do we think the Egg is dangerous? Sure, it was in a Megalith in a place where there generally aren't any, and that Megalith was ominous as all hell, but the Egg itself hasn't shown any great power; it let one weak-willed Sergein brother use spells he normally wouldn't be able to while putting him in some sort of berserk rage, and it let Alexei control monsters, but we've seen it do nothing of any great interest. It can steal Animas and the story at Vogelang suggests it can use them for power, but so far it's just a slightly strange Quell. Wil is not making a "needs of the many" choice here, people, even if he's run into the Egg again off-screen (and he probably has, considering Narcisse's words in the upcoming scenario)--there's just no justification to treat it as that level of threat. edit: Not to say it's not dangerous, but the Firebrand and the Ice Megalith are proof enough that "dangerous" is a very common trait for Quells. We've seen nothing to suggest the Egg is ESPECIALLY dangerous.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:27
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I think now's as good a time as any to show some of the art of SaGa Frontier 2, using Gustave as an example. For example, we saw this, towards the beginning of the game. Gustave as a kid, looks vaguely like Randy from Home Improvement, it's actually pretty close to his sprite, the main difference being him with a red cloak and scarf.  Here's teen/young adult Gustave, for some reason swinging a halberd along with his Trial Dagger (Yup, that's the Trial Dagger). Really the only thing he has that his sprite doesn't is the cape.  And now, the present, Gustave the Steel. King of the badasses, flowing cape, pretty nice looking sword and pauldrons that you could serve school lunch on. Goddamn I love the art in this game...
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Mar 10, 2015 03:32
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I will own up and say that the majority of my reasoning of the Egg being very dangerous even for a Quell is because of Future Happenings. Other than that I find it oddly coincidental that the Anima Faith (who we haven't heard about) has rumors connecting them to the Assassination and that they may have the Egg? There are no coincidences, only threads tying everything together! 
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Mar 10, 2015 03:46
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The Anima Faith are kinda an odd bunch. While I definitely think some fringe element of them had something to do with the assassination, I don't really think their reasoning is entirely there. Kill a child with anima under the false pretenses of orders by a very powerful and influential lord who doesn't have any anima whatsoever. Why not just attempt an assassination on the anima-less lord? There's a great deal behind the fundies that don't make that much sense, but that's some of the problems with fundamentalists like the Anima Faith, their actions just don't make sense.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:57
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Yeah there's something really funny going on and it's kinda a knock against the game's stage format in how they handle the Faith. We have no idea how much they actually matter because this is the only time we hear of them. Nor do we know a lot about them other than they're crazy enough to eat tiger hearts in a game series where said tiger can be anything from a wolf to Byak-ko the White Tiger of the West. As is they're presented as a fundamentalist cult made up of the standard 'most people who follow along because of benign reasons' and 'the chosen few who are insane.' If we had more information on them it'd help shed some light on the ramifications of this. As is the Anima Faith don't really seem to matter all that much.
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Mar 10, 2015 04:08
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Einander posted:Point of order: why do we think the Egg is dangerous? Sure, it was in a Megalith in a place where there generally aren't any, and that Megalith was ominous as all hell, but the Egg itself hasn't shown any great power; it let one weak-willed Sergein brother use spells he normally wouldn't be able to while putting him in some sort of berserk rage, and it let Alexei control monsters, but we've seen it do nothing of any great interest. It can steal Animas and the story at Vogelang suggests it can use them for power, but so far it's just a slightly strange Quell. Wil is not making a "needs of the many" choice here, people, even if he's run into the Egg again off-screen (and he probably has, considering Narcisse's words in the upcoming scenario)--there's just no justification to treat it as that level of threat. Desert Megalith, 1236 posted:In the midst of the commotion, a gentleman realized that the younger Sergein brother was carrying an egg, and shouted, "His Anima was stolen by that Quell!" He then gathered the steel tools from the town and approached the brother, and while defending himself against spells, knocked the egg out of the younger brother's hands. Right as the egg fell, the younger brother let out a primal scream and released all of his Anima, dying as if from an explosion. But that particular Megalith wasn't sentient... but suppose the Egg is to some extent? It doesn't talk, and the people so far who have used it don't acknowledge it as communicating with them or anything, but they also don't behave like themselves and they're obsessed with possessing and using the Egg. The Egg was also kept in a lead box inside the Megalith itself... was that really just a storage container? It seems unlikely given that the material was explicitly pointed out as lead, that seems to conjure up imagery of the lead box blocking something (radiation, etc.). Hell, maybe Wil is being subconsciously driven to find the Egg since the Egg knows him (or has sensed and responded to his Anima before; it may not "know" anything as such), knows he has a powerful Anima, and is hoping he'll somehow be entrapped by its power? Alexei was so driven to get the Egg that he hunted down Wil's parents (whether or not he killed Henry notwithstanding, he did get it back somehow and probably killed Wil's mother to get it). Maybe Wil is under similar influences and just doesn't realize it yet? The Egg could be trying to get Wil to touch it, or to get somebody else to touch it, and Wil knows enough to know both of those things are bad news. It's also personal, because it's directly or indirectly led to the death of several of his relatives and/or friends, and may have stolen the Anima of one or two of them. It honestly makes even more sense if Cordelia died, because he basically got a close friend and possible love interest killed looking into the thing (not by the Egg itself, but because of Alexei, who was using the Egg). And that's not counting his parents and aunt. If nothing else, Wil must feel directly responsible for making sure it doesn't victimize anybody else, given the tragedies it's caused him already. Plus if Gustave's soldiers kill all those people their souls will be returned to the world as Anima; the Egg could just steal that poo poo, which definitely doesn't sound preferable to the former case. Plus it's obviously something far more important because the writing makes it blatantly obvious that the Egg is the driving plot macguffin of the Knights side of the storyline. It's narratively not just some Quell given that the bulk of Wil's history so far has revolved around the actions of people who possess the Egg; Alexei's individual ambitions are not the continuing plot thread, but rather the actions or ambitions of people who come into possession of the Egg. And the next chapter is "Wil vs. Egg," so obviously conflict with the Egg is Wil's M.O.; we don't know who has it now but maybe that doesn't even matter. Wil might not yet understand the level of threat it's going to pose in the story but it has to be more than a one-off thing like the Ice Megalith because it keeps coming up. If anything the Ice Megalith being bookended by the Egg in the storyline must mean we're supposed to learn something from the former that makes the reappearance of the latter seem all the more threatening. The only thing that seems to link the two together is that Quells or Megaliths can influence and be influenced by human thoughts and that they can manipulate a person's Anima to change their very form, or blow them up, or maybe just suck their Anima out completely. And unlike the Ice Megalith, the Egg is portable, so you can't just stay away from it as long as there's a possibility that someone is holding it. So either Wil recognizes that this is a grave threat, or he's pissed at the Egg for killing so many people he knows and wants to stop it for good, or the Egg is trying to mindfuck Wil into thinking he's going after the Egg to destroy it when really it's trying to get him to lay hands on it and do... whatever it is the Egg wants, if it wants anything specifically.
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Mar 10, 2015 04:46
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God, the spritework in this game is beautiful. What I wouldn't give for some of the actual gameplay concept art. Anyone else getting strong Shimabara Rebellion-parallel vibes for the Anima Faith? IE a largely harmless faith being ruthlessly smashed?
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Mar 10, 2015 05:58
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Einander posted:Point of order: why do we think the Egg is dangerous? Pragmatically speaking, it does weird things to the the screen and makes Inception sounds. If that's not warning coloration, I don't know what is.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:44
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Kulkasha posted:God, the spritework in this game is beautiful. What I wouldn't give for some of the actual gameplay concept art. There were a lot of reasons for that rebellion to take place though, whereas we're given roughly jack and poo poo with the assassination. We've not heard of ~25 years of overtaxation making it so everyone but nobility was going hungry in that area, nor of nearly 30 years of religious persecution after having had been one of the few places available for the religion not long prior. A comparison to the Mongols crushing the Assassins in response to what's believed to be an attempt on the Khagan in the mid-late 1200s feels, to me, more apt, since most of the people manning the Assassin fortresses were believed, and possibly known to Mongols, to be neither soldiers nor the ones carrying out said assassination attempts. Further, as the beliefs of the Anima Faith would've likely lead to future conflict and made negotiations difficult, if not impossible, it's very unlikely the Assassins would've been willing to negotiate with Möngke Khan.
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Mar 11, 2015 06:11
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We know the Egg causes people to act weird in its proximity - it's even already been speculated that it could be what's making Wil act how he is. We also know, through the aforementioned Inception Noises, that the Egg was somewhere amongst the members of the Anima Faith, though not held by the High Priest. Finally, we don't know for a fact, but we can strongly suspect, that the Egg itself is a little poo poo that likes stirring up trouble wherever it goes. It's entirely possible that it wasn't the Faith itself that sent the assassin to take out Phillipe II, but rather the bearer of the Egg, working on their own autonomy. Since they were in the Faith, Gustave falls hard for the "correlation implies causation" fallacy (understandably so, given his life and what the Anima Faith represents) and calls down an order for a massacre.
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Mar 11, 2015 11:32
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Although even if we do assume the Egg was somehow responsible for that... why, exactly? And why target Philippe's son instead of Philippe himself, or Gustave? They were both there, and they seem like far more important men to take out to cause trouble. Even in the extreme case where we assume the Egg to be fully sentient and intelligent and responsible for the deed (the latter of which we have no real evidence for at all), I can't really explain why that assassination would happen.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:15
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Nakar posted:Although even if we do assume the Egg was somehow responsible for that... why, exactly? And why target Philippe's son instead of Philippe himself, or Gustave? They were both there, and they seem like far more important men to take out to cause trouble. Even in the extreme case where we assume the Egg to be fully sentient and intelligent and responsible for the deed (the latter of which we have no real evidence for at all), I can't really explain why that assassination would happen. My take on this is that the perpetrators were planning to kill both Philippes but didn't account for I TURN INTO DARGON mode. As for who it might be... I'm guessing either the Egg (I like KatanariSword's theory) or the Marquis of Otto. Think about it: Gustave has made it clear he does not want to claim the throne, so if both Philippes were out of the picture, the throne would go to..? Corzanth fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 14:34
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