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Kirby's E-tier? He's like the only character I can effectively win with, what the gently caress haha. Maybe I just suck at Smash Bros.
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Mar 10, 2015 08:33
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Project M for Wii U/3DS.
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Mar 10, 2015 08:38
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BlackFrost posted:Kirby's E-tier? He's like the only character I can effectively win with, what the gently caress haha. Maybe I just suck at Smash Bros. The way this tier list seems to be done is based mostly on tournament wins so nobody is winning tournaments with Kirby. Also a lot of the time tier lists take into account how many bad matchups a character has and how bad they are, as well as how popular or unpopular the bad matchups are as characters who knows
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Mar 10, 2015 08:40
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I was kind of hoping that there wouldn't be a tier list for this game because it only ever leads to completely stupid arguments and it's not even helpful. I'm not going to start picking Diddy Kong because he's allegedly better than everyone else.
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Mar 10, 2015 08:52
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Chaltab posted:I was kind of hoping that there wouldn't be a tier list for this game because it only ever leads to completely stupid arguments and it's not even helpful. I'm not going to start picking Diddy Kong because he's allegedly better than everyone else. You don't have to, but when someone who knows Diddy starts outprioritizing you and you start realizing that he has way more options than most characters it'll click he's kinda better.
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Mar 10, 2015 08:57
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Chaltab posted:I was kind of hoping that there wouldn't be a tier list for this game because it only ever leads to completely stupid arguments and it's not even helpful. I'm not going to start picking Diddy Kong because he's allegedly better than everyone else. You can make a tier list for literally anything Someone probably has a tierlist for Mario Kart Snes
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Mar 10, 2015 09:00
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In the related videos for that new!Ganonchu video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By4S7JG8qgc I gotta find me a spare SD card.
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Mar 10, 2015 09:02
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Sire Oblivion posted:You don't have to, but when someone who knows Diddy starts outprioritizing you and you start realizing that he has way more options than most characters it'll click he's kinda better.
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Mar 10, 2015 09:15
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Chaltab posted:Not really the point, though. If *I* were to pick Diddy, I'd likely lose. I know how to play Mario, Peach, Link, and ZSS fairly well, but Diddy Kong doesn't appeal to me. It's like MetaKnight in Brawl: he's supposedly S-Tier, but that was useless information to me because in my hands he was S-for-Suicide-Tier. Yeah that's not how tiers work. It assumes the best possible play from both sides. If you beat Diddy as Ike he was probably a worse player.
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Mar 10, 2015 09:19
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:You can make a tier list for literally anything A Tier: Toad Koopa B Tier: Yoshi Toadstool C Tier: Mario Luigi Don't get hit even once or you lose Tier: Bowser DK Junior
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Mar 10, 2015 13:31
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BlackFrost posted:Kirby's E-tier? He's like the only character I can effectively win with, what the gently caress haha. Maybe I just suck at Smash Bros. THE AWESOME GHOST posted:this tier list is based mostly on tournament wins so nobody is winning tournaments with Kirby. Although as someone who plays both and likes Kirby as a character better, Kirby is basically Sheik with worse range, less air speed and less killing moves. Look for Kirby in doubles where he is terrifying w/ Monado
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Mar 10, 2015 14:13
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zolthorg posted:Although as someone who plays both and likes Kirby as a character better, Kirby is basically Sheik with worse range, less air speed and less killing moves. If you actually look at Kirby's moves in terms of speed+power he's terrifying but then you actually try to hit someone with them and think oh right lol
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Mar 10, 2015 14:52
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Kirby excels in offstage antics like Jigglypuff, especially going offensive on someone offstage with Bair and Dair, but yes his range is total loving rear end. His saving grace is that he's hard as hell to hit by some moves in the game and has a higher than average smashing power so you can fake people out easily sometimes and combo them. His stone is also hilariously powerful (kills at 70%, 40% or so on people trying to Uair you to death) on people that try to go for the kill near the upper blast zone. If someone has a predictable recovery and they go offstage god help them vs. a competent Kirby. edit: Also monado just breaks Kirby, he gains a ton of mobility and power on a moveset that wasn't balanced around it.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:00
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Chaltab posted:Not really the point, though. If *I* were to pick Diddy, I'd likely lose. I know how to play Mario, Peach, Link, and ZSS fairly well, but Diddy Kong doesn't appeal to me. It's like MetaKnight in Brawl: he's supposedly S-Tier, but that was useless information to me because in my hands he was S-for-Suicide-Tier. Your wish that tiers wouldn't exist and this post are really strange. It's like wishing that the tallest mountain doesn't exist. You also don't seem to think it's possible for some characters to be better than others as a concept. The tier lists aren't personal, you can play whoever you want and be bad or good with whoever you want. The point of a tier list is to identify which characters tend to win more often over others and tournament data is used because you're assuming people are bringing their winningest strategy with their best character to the table. It's not fate or destiny or set in stone, it's a description of trends. Trends that can and do change over time.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:07
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So I don't know if this has already been posted here, but there are some interesting shenanigans you can pull off with custom movesets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhanK-GQQMY
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Mar 10, 2015 16:35
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Question: In Japan are customs never used in tournaments and those winrates are from the regular movesets? I hear customs can really elevate some characters' playstyles.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:51
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messagemode1 posted:Your wish that tiers wouldn't exist and this post are really strange. It's like wishing that the tallest mountain doesn't exist. You also don't seem to think it's possible for some characters to be better than others as a concept.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:10
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Yeah I agree there's a self fulfilling prophecy effect at play that influences perceptions but try not to worry too much about how other people play a game I guess. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to select a character to play. Pick your favorites. And then lose to diddy. Also comparing it negatively to Melee is funny considering Melee is a competitive success, as far as games in the smash series goes. messagemode1 fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 18:28
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Chaltab posted:I don't want SSB4 to end up where Melee was 10 years ago, basically. Granted a lifespan far beyond what most comparable games would have? There's always, always going to be a top and bottom 10% in games where the characters/classes do unique things. The analysis that determines which characters are in those brackets doesn't come about as the result of some spiteful feeling towards the game and the people that play it, it arises naturally from skilled players looking at what makes their character good and how to improve their play. The players that bandwagon onto tier lists and just pick the best character because "they're the best" without anything more than a surface level evaluation into what makes them that way are doomed to lose to better players, even if those better players are on characters that might qualitatively come off worse. People analyze this poo poo because they love Smash. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 18:41
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messagemode1 posted:Also comparing it negatively to Melee is funny considering Melee is a competitive success, as far as games in the smash series goes.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:26
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Chaltab posted:Yes, Melee is successful *now*. Ten years ago was the era of "No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination." It was pretty successful *then* too dude. For comparison Brawl was more or less dead around that time in 2011.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:29
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Brawl was dead because it was slow, trips sucked, and metaknight shat on everything.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:36
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Dizz posted:Brawl was dead because it was slow, trips sucked, and metaknight shat on everything. And Smash 4 still meets the first of those. There isn't anything on the level of Metaknight and I dearly hope that never repeats itself but there will certainly be a top tier that takes big steaming dumps on most of the cast and right now that's Diddy. A year down the road it could be Sheik, who knows? Thankfully there's nothing on the level of tripping because holy gently caress what a colossal mistake
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Mar 10, 2015 19:39
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Chaltab posted:Yes, Melee is successful *now*. Ten years ago was the era of "No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination." Melee's always been successful and people have always been doing cool and weird things to push the game. The melee tier list has had a lot of shakeups over the last 10 years. 
messagemode1 fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 19:43
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messagemode1 posted:Melee's always been successful and people have always been doing cool and weird things to push the game. The melee tier list has had a lot of shakeups over the last 10 years. This is cool
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Mar 10, 2015 19:54
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It would be cooler if the X-axis was numbered
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Mar 10, 2015 20:01
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I knew Sheik was always top but not Fox. The tiers in Smash really are hammered out day 1 then E: my favorite one is the pink that represents Jugglypuff Followed closely by Zelda, holy poo poo TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 20:17
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That thingie's from here i think: http://forrestthewoods.com/unbalanced-design-of-super-smash-brothers/ Ohhhh there's also a part 2 and part 3 on there that i havent checked out yet  http://forrestthewoods.com/unbalanced-design-of-super-smash-brothers-part-2/ http://forrestthewoods.com/unbalanced-design-of-super-smash-brothers-part-3/ whalestory fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 20:22
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I put aside my Smash Bros Wii U because I was disappointed over the lack of Gamecube controller adapters and wanted to play on my Wavebirds. Admittedly, that was a bit stubborn on my part, but anyway, does anyone have any experience with the 3rd party Gamecube controller adapters? (Mayflash, Kelux, etc) The amazon user reviews are promising, but I don't know if they are quite as obsessed over input lag and button sensitivities and so forth as we would be here. I.e., I could see some dad reviewing this product because his 3 year old son is fine that it functions, but an over obsessed adult such as myself could whine to no end over my R, L, and Z button sensitivities being the slightest bit off. Does anyone have any experience with these third party ones? Are they basically just as good as the official Nintendo ones?
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Mar 10, 2015 22:18
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I have a Mayflash adapter, and yes, they (or, at least, it) are just as good as the first-party ones.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:27
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I use a Mayflash one for P:M on my computer and it works great.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:31
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Countblanc posted:I use a Mayflash one for P:M on my computer and it works great. I'll probably get a second one then. Fantastic.
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Mar 10, 2015 23:39
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Yeah, I bought a Mayflash one a few weeks ago and it works perfectly fine, with the added bonus of letting me use my GC controllers on my laptop without any special set up.
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Mar 10, 2015 23:44
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Chaltab posted:Yes, Melee is successful *now*. Ten years ago was the era of "No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination." Just want to add there was never really an era of "No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination." Ten years ago people thought Shiek was the best, Marth won all the big tournaments and we still played on stages like Mute City/Rainbow Cruise//Kirby 64.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:14
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This Tier List isn't based on theory or framedata or anything, it's just a collection of information based on winnings. It's not a "real" tier list nor is it really agreed upon at all. As a few others have said, it will invariably change as more is found out about the game and the meta actually develops.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:23
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Tier lists are either a way to keep your main from being too popular so you feel unique and cool or they make your main extremely popular so you feel well-chosen and cool.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:31
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Or you can ignore them and play Captain Falcon, who is always cool.
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Mar 11, 2015 02:35
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I fight for my friends in the E tier
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Mar 11, 2015 02:48
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Interesting. Diddy was my third favorite character, so it's good to see him at the top. On the other hand, Zelda is my favorite and she's an E-tier, so who knows. I just play to have fun and teach my son video games.
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Mar 11, 2015 03:24
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9.0 classic with one death. Honestly the hardest part is Master/Crazy, not even lying. The rest have patterns. Master/Crazy can be quick and random when they want to be. I can do this.
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Mar 11, 2015 05:56
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