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Mr. Maltose posted:If a game claims to be Shonen emulator but I can't use my power of strings to fold myself into a Mobius Strip to avoid the crushing onset of gravity accelerated time then it's no shonen game at all. look when someone figures out how to properly do a Jojo game I will be first on the block to try it out
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Mar 10, 2015 15:44
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Mr. Maltose posted:How did you house rule out the hateful toxicity and history of harassment? Is this about 5e? Can you explain for people like me that didn't follow it?
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Mar 10, 2015 15:46
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Len posted:Is this about 5e? Can you explain for people like me that didn't follow it? Pretty sure it's just that Pathfinder/D&D 3.5e people literally death-threated and harassed people out of the hobby who had any kind of public presence and dared to say "4e is pretty good and should be considered when designing new D&D".
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Mar 10, 2015 15:52
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Len posted:Is this about 5e? Can you explain for people like me that didn't follow it? RPGPundit and Zak S are credited as consultants for D&D 5th Edition, and without getting too deep into the rabbit hole, they're very much bad people. While I do not know how much they actually contributed to the content of the game, the fact that they were recognized at all speaks very ill of how WOTC has chosen to manage the brand and the community. The other part is that 5th Edition is heavily into identity politics: it's been regarded as a sort of return to the real D&D, which heavily implies repudiation of 4th Edition. I believe that at some point there were gamers that burned their 4th Edition books in "celebration" of 5th Edition's release.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:54
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Blockhouse posted:look when someone figures out how to properly do a Jojo game I will be first on the block to try it out gradenko_2000 posted:RPGPundit and Zak S are credited as consultants for D&D 5th Edition, and without getting too deep into the rabbit hole, they're very much bad people. While I do not know how much they actually contributed to the content of the game, the fact that they were recognized at all speaks very ill of how WOTC has chosen to manage the brand and the community.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:58
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People have tried to run JJBA on every possible setting, you'd think that by elimination they would find the perfect one.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:59
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I sometimes wonder what would have happened if WoTC had responded to the backlash with a new D&D Classic revision and just manage that as a product line. It works for Coke and Pepsi. I'm really curious to see how 5e continues. The brand seems like it's on shaky ground on the tabletop as it drove out guys like me who actively disliked old D&D and, judging by Roll20, failed to recapture a lot of Pathfinder's market share. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 16:00
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Mr. Maltose posted:How did you house rule out the hateful toxicity and history of harassment? The same way people get rid of the history of pedophilia in Polaris games.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:01
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PresidentBeard posted:The same way people get rid of the history of pedophilia in Polaris games. Holy poo poo how is that even comparable. Like, actual people were actually affected by things that happened in the real world relating to 5E. I'm sorry I defended a badwrongfun game but on the other hand go gently caress yourself.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:05
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PresidentBeard posted:The same way people get rid of the history of pedophilia in Polaris games. What exactly are you referencing?
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Mar 10, 2015 16:09
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Polaris was made by the guy who made Bliss Stage. It has next to nothing to do with Polaris which is itself a fine game. In the same way that Mearls being a pieces of poo poo basically doesn't directly affect people playing 5th edition at all. Being associated with harassment isn't cool but neither is being associated with pedophilia.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:11
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The "cripes" man.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I'm really curious to see how 5e continues. The brand seems like it's on shaky ground on the tabletop as it drove out guys like me who actively disliked old D&D and, judging by Roll20, failed to recapture a lot of Pathfinder's market share. But the point about "identity politics" still feels right; regardless of who consulted on it I have zero interest or desire to play 5e because everything leading up to it made it clear that they weren't interested in the opinions of people like myself who enjoyed 4e and accepted that it was D&D.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:27
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Bliss Stage is a not-good game that misses its mark in a lot of ways, but it's a little crazy that you apparently think the intent of it was "statutory rape is awesome!"
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Mar 10, 2015 16:28
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Ben Lehman made a bad game, Mike Mearls forwarded emails of concern to a serial harasser. Or like we call it here in the trad games business, the same drat thing apparently.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:30
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Wikipedia actually has a pretty good summary here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons#Version_history Awesome, no idea why I didn't think to look at normal wiki. I found some D&D centric wiki but it was pretty crappy. Sadly, I think I am a lovely grog. I have been following a few of the pbp game threads to get a feel for the new systems but all these sentient robots, half dragons, and the like give me the vapors.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:32
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I'd still play Ars Magica even if Mark Rein@Haagen-Dasz was found to be a cannibal who enjoyed to jack off on babies to be honest (and there is no evidence to the contrary so the case is open). Would it make me a bad person? Well too late for that.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:35
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bunnielab posted:Awesome, no idea why I didn't think to look at normal wiki. I found some D&D centric wiki but it was pretty crappy. I'm tired of all this monkey cheese bulb poo poo as well to be honest. Lets get back to the basics.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:39
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bunnielab posted:Awesome, no idea why I didn't think to look at normal wiki. I found some D&D centric wiki but it was pretty crappy. Liking old games or traditional fantasy -- as long as that doesn't include racist or sexist elements--, doesn't make you a lovely grog. Racists, sexists, homophobes,transphobes and other assholes who wish that the entire hobby is made of only white men are lovely grogs. Not the ones, however, who act on their feelings through aggressive means such as harrashment. Those people deserve a worse name. So, if all you are is a person who likes things old school -- as long as that doesn't include toxic social ideas -- you're fine.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:42
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Tulul posted:Bliss Stage is a not-good game that misses its mark in a lot of ways, but it's a little crazy that you apparently think the intent of it was "statutory rape is awesome!" The explicit goal of your game is to be about sex, then you make a rule that all PCs have to be under the age of 18. There isn't much way to read this that isn't pedo.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:Next isn't ~~terrible~~, it just has a disappointingly narrow range of appeal that has more to do with identity politics/branding than any real concerted effort at good design.
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Mar 10, 2015 17:25
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I'm lost. Can we only be pedophiles or stalkers now?
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Mar 10, 2015 17:26
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Covok posted:Liking old games or traditional fantasy -- as long as that doesn't include racist or sexist elements--, doesn't make you a lovely grog. Racists, sexists, homophobes,transphobes and other assholes who wish that the entire hobby is made of only white men are lovely grogs. Not the ones, however, who act on their feelings through aggressive means such as harrashment. Those people deserve a worse name. Fair enough, but I wouldn't want my kid to marry a loving lizardman. If you ain't a mammal, you ain't poo poo. So from what I have read, would the following three statements be true: 1)5ed is going to be closer to the AD&D I remember, in mechanics and tone. 2)4ed is going to have less rules crunch, but more tactical style combat? 3)Nothing in the D&D world is close to a modern "storygame" ? I have a weird work schedule with a lot of travel, so making a character for a pbp app is often hard. Once I found a system I think I will like, I wanna make a character or two to have on deck that I can come up with the fluff for to fit whatever game I am trying to get into. Does this sound reasonable?
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Mar 10, 2015 18:02
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bunnielab posted:2)4ed is going to have less rules crunch, but more tactical style combat? 4E is a competently-designed system with balanced mechanics and lots of tools to make the GM's life easier, unlike Next (which is a massive step back in this regard) or basically any edition of D&D. It has more "crunch" than Next, but the mechanics are also much better-designed. bunnielab posted:3)Nothing in the D&D world is close to a modern "storygame" ? Nothing produced by WotC, sure. There's Dungeon World and Torchbearer and probably others.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:08
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bunnielab posted:2)4ed is going to have less rules crunch, but more tactical style combat?  I find it more manageable than 5e crunch, but I think that's just familiarity. As for #3... 13th Age is probably the closest.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:08
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4E has lots of crunch, but the crunch is competently designed in such a way that it is a dream to both run and play. I was able to learn the system alongside my players as our first RPG and the experience was remarkably simple, fast and fun. It helps that we all had experience with miniature and card games before that, but even the newbies who joined later on were getting into the swing of things in a single session. As a GM, 4E was amazingly fast to set up for, even if the combats took a while. I could take a statblock and throw a different name and some flavor on it and put together a battle in under 5 minutes totally from scratch. I could design really cool boss encounters that relied on the tactical combat and set up neat environmental things for my players too. My prep time for each game was about thirty minutes, mostly picking out stats for a range of monsters they might encounter in that week's game. I cannot extol the virtues of 4E enough, but 13th Age is our current game of choice. The combat is faster than 4E, the Backgrounds are far more elegant than skill rolls, and the flexible attacks are a godsend for players who used to agonize over which power to use in our 4E combats. Overall 13th Age is just about as tightly designed as 4E, lacks a little combat depth but gives you speed, and has more ways for players to affect the narrative with Backgrounds and Icon rolls. The only mechanic I really miss from 4E are action points, but I haven't found a good way to work them into 13th Age.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:20
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Serf posted:The only mechanic I really miss from 4E are action points, but I haven't found a good way to work them into 13th Age. Icon dice? I've used a system where people can use relationship dice for bonuses and such, but that's because I only run the organized play stuff so things are a little more limited in terms of working Icon stuff into the game.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:25
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One big thing about 4E is that it presents its rules in a very straightforward way and covers edge cases wherever possible, whereas 3.5 (for example; it's the only other edition I know) tends to dress things up more in "natural language." 4E's rules are game rules, 3.5's are descriptions of a setting, environment and physics, all at the same time and put in dice expressions. You rarely ever have to infer anything in 4E; at most you'll check a keyword and will find an exact definition. Take a familiar example, knocking an ooze prone. In 3.5, the definition of "prone" starts with "is on the ground." An ooze isn't explicitly immune to that. However, "prone" in the rules means the same thing as it does for the reader, it just also explains what that means in game terms. So as a reader you're likely to think "but it doesn't make any difference for the ooze, it's already as on the ground as it can be" and infer that logically, an ooze can't be knocked prone. Now look at 4E and you'll find that the definition of "prone" only gives mechanical effects. This time, there's nothing that really keeps you from applying the mechanical effects and describe it differently ("quivering", maybe) for creatures where "knocked on the ground" doesn't make much sense. "Knocked on the ground" is still a good description of the mechanical "prone" effect in 95% of cases, but it can include other situations now. (They have this exact scenario lined out in the 4E Rules Compendium in the definition of "Prone" now.) Or the mainstay fireball. 3.5 defines exactly what happens when a wizard casts fireball. Point finger, glowing bead flies through the air, explosion. 4E tells you it does X damage in an area Y, and that's it. Whether your wizard does the whole finger thing or whether he summons fire snakes or whether he is, indeed, an alchemist who prepares very specific concoctions is entirely up to you. In 3.5 you get to say "I poke my finger through a knothole and blast the guards in the adjacent room" but your DM gets to say "the thugs cut off all your fingers, no more fireball for you." Whenever you talk to someone about 4E rules and they say "the rules do what they say they do", that sort of thing is what they mean. There are very little situations where you have to infer additional effects or limitations on anything.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:40
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Oh lord so many choices. It looks like most of the games here are an even split between 4ed and 5ed ( which is also called Next, correct?). It sounds like 4th is the way to go if I want ease of use. It looks like both editions have online chargen programs, is one of them massively better then the other? Same question, but about PDF rule books? It's so damm complicated to kill a goblin these days. 
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Mar 10, 2015 18:41
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Even as someone who likes 3.5 I agree that the naturalist language is terrible. It'd really benefit from a clearer distinction between rules text and flavor text like Magic. Also grogs who claim 4th edition ruined D&D by changing the way "spells feel" usually are referred to this use of clear rules text. They are idiots who now populate the paizo site and complain endlessly about "rules bloat". Seemingly wanting Paizo to commit corporate suicide and just stop producing books.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:45
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4E can be overwhelming but that's largely due to the sheer volume of material (famously, there are far too many feats and magic items). It's very easy to use and run and play and everything. But it's a pain in the rear end to get into it because there are so many different books now and a lot of them are made obsolete by later ones. I'd say if you do want to get into it get a Rules Compendium, Monster Vault and Player's Handbook (from which you ignore anything that's different in the Compendium). The online builder has all the options, of course, but like I said, there are a lot. e: on the other hand, also all the errata, which you'll want. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 18:49
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Didn't NEXT already have a splatbook canceled? That wouldn't speak well to the health of the brand.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:50
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I would also recommend 4th edition over Next.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:52
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bunnielab posted:Oh lord so many choices. It looks like most of the games here are an even split between 4ed and 5ed ( which is also called Next, correct?). It sounds like 4th is the way to go if I want ease of use. It looks like both editions have online chargen programs, is one of them massively better then the other? Same question, but about PDF rule books? I have not played 5th edition but I can tell you that a very real problem with pre-4e Dungeons and Dragons is that if the characters attempt to act like heroes from fantasy fiction at any level pre-5ish or so they will, most likely, die. Also there are a bunch of ways for characters to just die outright at later levels, which encourages them to maintain their ambushing, sneaky, scaredy-cat ways.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:52
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It wasn't cancelled because it was never formally announced!  (Yeah, it was cancelled. That was the non-logic used to explain actually no everything is fine.)
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Mar 10, 2015 18:55
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Was there ever a 4E strategy game? Because hoo boy if there is a system out there that could support a computer game it's 4E. A good tactical dungeon-crawler with the option to build and customize a party beforehand, shops to grab new magic items to supplement your loot, randomized encounters built using their encounter rules... Sounds like a match made in heaven. Too bad the ship has sailed on 4E stuff because that would be incredible.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:57
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So everyone kept saying, but nothing ever came out. Well I guess there's Daggerdale, but that's the same tired old real-time Forgotten Realms bullshit they warmed over and served up billions of times now. No D&D game will ever move beyond that. e: there was a D&D Tactics game for the PSP, based on, of all things, 3.5. That worked out about as well as you think it did.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:02
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My Lovely Horse posted:So everyone kept saying, but nothing ever came out. Well I guess there's Daggerdale, but that's the same tired old real-time Forgotten Realms bullshit they warmed over and served up billions of times now. No D&D game will ever move beyond that. That's really too bad. Like you said, everything in 4E is expressed in very clean mechanical terms. Slap that onto a good game engine and port over the massive amount of content they produced (even if it is mostly fiddly trash feats and long lists of magic items) and it would be amazing. I know videogames aren't WOTC's thing and it wouldn't help the "4E is WoW" crap, but I know I'd play the hell outta a game like that.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:07
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PresidentBeard posted:Even as someone who likes 3.5 I agree that the naturalist language is terrible. They are idiots who now populate the paizo site and complain endlessly about "rules bloat". Seemingly wanting Paizo to commit corporate suicide and just stop producing books. And here I thought rules bloat was Pathfinder's singular appeal.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:09
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I'm just build a spear, hangout in neighborhood storm drains, and fight raccoons. They are pretty close to goblins.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:14
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