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... Thread title, I can't figure out what it refers. Anyone have a hint/chapter number/whatever to poke my memory?
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Mar 10, 2015 14:05
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Grendels Dad posted:Sure, anywhere in the books counts. Good call too, Theon's chapter in Winterfell read like someone made Macbeth into a dark comedy where Macbeth is secretly a doofus. Not to mention the general hilarity of his time at Pyke.
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Mar 10, 2015 14:11
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Grendels Dad posted:like someone made Macbeth into a dark comedy where Macbeth is secretly a doofus. This would be a great thread title. Too bad it's too long.
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Mar 10, 2015 14:40
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double nine posted:... Thread title, I can't figure out what it refers. Anyone have a hint/chapter number/whatever to poke my memory? Aegon: "I dreamed that I was old"
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Mar 10, 2015 14:42
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tin can made man posted:Aegon: "I dreamed that I was old" Isn't that Aemon? "Egg, I dreamed that I was old."
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Mar 10, 2015 14:49
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Grendels Dad posted:I'd like to ask the thread who they think the most self-delusional character is. I just thought of Aeron Damp Hair Greyjoy and realized how much I enjoyed his chapters, mainly because he is hot in pursuit of Cersei's throne as the character with the most hilariously flawed self-perception. I think right in his first chapter he is summoned to some lord's hall and can't stop thinking about how that soft greenlander is cowed by his righteous power, when in reality he is just throwing tantrums and the other guy is clearly uncomfortable and wants to get rid of this nut asap. Pre-crowning Vyseris and Quentyn Martell
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Mar 10, 2015 14:51
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BreakAtmo posted:Isn't that Aemon? "Egg, I dreamed that I was old."
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Mar 10, 2015 14:53
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Did the exterior shot of the Long Bridge remind anyone else very strongly of that one level from Dishonored? Also glad to know this trailer is meeting the quota for burly dudes with shaved armpits raising their swords above their heads
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Mar 10, 2015 15:13
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canepazzo posted:Pre-crowning Vyseris and Quentyn Martell Vyseris is a good one, though he's a lot sadder than Cersei or even Aeron. At least those commanded some minuscule amount of respect, either through their position and family or because people feared they'd make a scene and throw seaweed at everybody. Absolutely no one respected Vyseris, save Dany. Not so sure about Quentyn though. He always struck me as really self-conscious and defeated.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:23
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I think someone who is on the opposite end of the spectrum, perceived as rather competent despite inner doubt, is Sam once he gets into Feast territory. The discrepancy is certainly not to the level of Cersei or Aeron, but Sam certainly doubts himself while I believe the other members of the Night's Watch are earning respect. Case in point Sam believes that the nickname "Sam the Slayer" is mocking him when it may be out of genuine respect.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:34
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Grendels Dad posted:Vyseris is a good one, though he's a lot sadder than Cersei or even Aeron. At least those commanded some minuscule amount of respect, either through their position and family or because people feared they'd make a scene and throw seaweed at everybody. Absolutely no one respected Vyseris, save Dany. Quentyn definitely comes across like that at times, but in the end he really seems to buy into his delusions of being the big hero of the story who's going to marry the queen. Or maybe it's just something he keeps telling himself so he can push on. Either way, he ends up a Dornish roast.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:47
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Dany combines the most deluded characteristics of both Damphair and Cersei in that she ascribes magical powers to herself that aren't real and believes she has a right to rule despite her lack of political acumen and the misery she causes during her reign. She thinks she can't be burned (she can) and thinks she can't get sick (she can), and her tenure as queen of Meereen has triggered the destruction of the entire region through disease, war, and social upheaval.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:51
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loquacius posted:Did the exterior shot of the Long Bridge remind anyone else very strongly of that one level from Dishonored?
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Mar 10, 2015 15:53
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In It For The Tank posted:Dany combines the most deluded characteristics of both Damphair and Cersei in that she ascribes magical powers to herself that aren't real and believes she has a right to rule despite her lack of political acumen and the misery she causes during her reign. She thinks she can't be burned (she can) and thinks she can't get sick (she can), and her tenure as queen of Meereen has triggered the destruction of the entire region through disease, war, and social upheaval. It's almost like she's become an allegory for American exceptionalism and the 2003 invasion of Iraq...
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Mar 10, 2015 15:58
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In It For The Tank posted:Dany combines the most deluded characteristics of both Damphair and Cersei in that she ascribes magical powers to herself that aren't real and believes she has a right to rule despite her lack of political acumen and the misery she causes during her reign. She thinks she can't be burned (she can) and thinks she can't get sick (she can), and her tenure as queen of Meereen has triggered the destruction of the entire region through disease, war, and social upheaval. I still wonder if that's what we're supposed to glean from it, because I certainly do. But if any character seems to be given the real "chosen one" treatment where no matter what they do we're supposed to trust they're doing the right thing, it's her. Even when she's babbling about killing everyone from every house that defied her father, her advisers seem to react with little more than a few raised eyebrows before moving on. And a lot of those prominent ASOIAF bloggers in the OP seem to think she's actually doing just fine, with the guy of Race for the Iron Throne arguing she didn't cause enough upheaval and it's okay that she's bringing ruin to all these ancient civilizations because it's white-on-white rather than being a racist "colonial" thing. And the first time the show ever suggested Daenerys is deluded about just how special she really is was when the dragons ate that kid.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:13
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loquacius posted:Did the exterior shot of the Long Bridge remind anyone else very strongly of that one level from Dishonored? Well it is pretty literally Old London Bridge.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:33
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webmeister posted:edit; is that Davos speaking at 0:40 saying "Stannis Baratheon has an army at Castle Black, he intends to take the North"? It actually sounds a lot like Roose.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:42
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He's loose.
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Mar 10, 2015 16:59
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Beeez posted:And the first time the show ever suggested Daenerys is deluded about just how special she really is was when the dragons ate that kid. I think we're supposed to find her crucifying the slavers to be a step too far given Barristan's reaction.
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Mar 10, 2015 17:12
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Maybe you're right, but didn't she give an "I'm a badass" speech when that was happening? Usually those seem to denote that we're supposed to be pumping our fists.
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Mar 10, 2015 17:17
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I've heard a rumor that according to some supposedly hitherto-infallible rumor mill site that Sansa marries (again) this season. Has anyone else heard that?
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Mar 10, 2015 17:18
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Beeez posted:Maybe you're right, but didn't she give an "I'm a badass" speech when that was happening? Usually those seem to denote that we're supposed to be pumping our fists. Show Dany is definitely painted as a hero, and perhaps she will be in the end, but I hope this season does start to emphasize that she's not infallible. It's a lot harder for the show to pull off because it's a mutual perspective but the books do an excellent job of demonstrating biases amongst the POV characters (as clearly evident by the current discussion in this thread). It'd be great if they could show Dany's arc in a way that, when it concludes, the viewer actually goes back and questions why they cheered her on.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:11
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I don't know, she was talking poo poo about the Starks in the trailer and she's already had some of her ruthless/incompetent side shown already in S4, when it turns out she nailed a slaver who spoke out against the butchery of children and had done nothing wrong to Dany. I don't think they will pull any punches here. Stannis looks god drat badass with that fur cloak though, the Roose vs Stannis war is going to be metal as gently caress.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:17
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Zippy the Bummer posted:I've heard a rumor that according to some supposedly hitherto-infallible rumor mill site that Sansa marries (again) this season. Has anyone else heard that? We've been idly speculating that she might take the place of Jeyne Poole and be married off to Ramsey, but it's pretty much just based on the fact that the trailer shows her at Winterfell.
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Mar 10, 2015 18:42
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If she were married to Rob Arryn as originally planned, even if he met an unfortunate end soon after Sansalayne would still be Lady of the Vale which could give her some modicum of authority if she and Littlefinger are conducting a joint scheme of some kind. Her marrying Ramsay seems like it would be really irritating and put her right back where she started in terms of being able to "do" anything.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:00
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I'd rather the plan be to entice him as Alayne, then cut his throat when he's vulnerable.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:09
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MrBims posted:It's almost like she's become an allegory for American exceptionalism and the 2003 invasion of Iraq... It's not. e: and also American exceptionalism is something completely unrelated to the point where the comparison is not even wrong. Mortabis fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 19:24
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lifts cats over head posted:I hope this season does start to emphasize that she's not infallible. This will not happen for the entirety of the series. The show is far too concerned with making Our Heroes into completely righteous Mary Sues to go about exploring how they'd react or grow from serious mistakes. Show Dany is always confident, always right, and always fearless no matter what's happening. Show Tyrion doesn't murder Shae in cold blood - she comes at him with a knife so he has an out for killing her. He was just defending himself, see? Show Jon isn't any more Mary Sue than book Jon because that isn't really possible.
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Mar 10, 2015 21:17
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Zippy the Bummer posted:I'd be down for Sansa taking on the "The North remembers" role. This is definitely what's going to happen btw.
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Mar 10, 2015 21:35
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Unzip and Attack posted:. Show Dany is always confident, always right, and always fearless no matter what's happening. This is like 180 degrees from how it's presented. The show is very explicit that Dany has learned to put up a Queenly front when it suites her.
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Mar 10, 2015 21:35
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Unzip and Attack posted:The show is far too concerned with making Our Heroes into completely righteous Mary Sues to go about exploring how they'd react or grow from serious mistakes. Show Dany is always confident, always right, and always fearless no matter what's happening. Show Tyrion doesn't murder Shae in cold blood - she comes at him with a knife so he has an out for killing her. He was just defending himself, see? Show Jon isn't any more Mary Sue than book Jon because that isn't really possible. This is a pretty gross exaggeration. And you managed to cram the words 'Mary Sue' twice into a single post, so well done on that.
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Mar 10, 2015 21:44
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They still had Tyrion trying to convince himself to rape Sansa in the show, he withdraws earlier in the show than in the books but it still happens. He's also, you know, supported the most terrible ruler in the entire series just to prove himself to his dad and outright says to Varys he enjoys the game. Oh, he also bullies Theon for no reason and arms the mountain men with better weapons. He may be getting white washed in some areas but Tyrion is still far from a good guy in the show, he's just very witty and way less poo poo than the rest of his family in comparison.
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Mar 10, 2015 21:57
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Grendels Dad posted:I'd like to ask the thread who they think the most self-delusional character is. I just thought of Aeron Damp Hair Greyjoy and realized how much I enjoyed his chapters, mainly because he is hot in pursuit of Cersei's throne as the character with the most hilariously flawed self-perception. I think right in his first chapter he is summoned to some lord's hall and can't stop thinking about how that soft greenlander is cowed by his righteous power, when in reality he is just throwing tantrums and the other guy is clearly uncomfortable and wants to get rid of this nut asap. Melisandre, but only in regards to her relationship with the Lord of Light. As much as she likes to kick at the ground when the subject of her powers comes up, she clearly thinks of herself as divinely powerful and effective person. She certainly has that effect on people, but so far a lot of her power is sheer charisma and exoticism paired with Asshaian shadowmancy, which is apparently a common thing over there (at least according to the few accounts of Asshai that we've seen). Her actual divine connection, the visions, have been really dubious.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:09
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paco650 posted:Melisandre, but only in regards to her relationship with the Lord of Light. As much as she likes to kick at the ground when the subject of her powers comes up, she clearly thinks of herself as divinely powerful and effective person. She certainly has that effect on people, but so far a lot of her power is sheer charisma and exoticism paired with Asshaian shadowmancy, which is apparently a common thing over there (at least according to the few accounts of Asshai that we've seen). Her actual divine connection, the visions, have been really dubious. One of my favorite lines from Jon is when Mel is saying she sees Patch face being shady as poo poo in her fires and Jon basically says " You see fools in your fires but not Stannis."
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Mar 10, 2015 22:21
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Have any of you heard this rumor?quote:But rumor has it Jon will find something even more spectacular at Hardhome. That rumor promises the Night’s King will show his face and Tormund will sacrifice himself in flames so Jon can escape from the wights. This sounds pretty crazy, but its not like the show has to adhere to much anymore.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:56
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Renly was pretty delusional
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Mar 10, 2015 23:01
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zVxTeflon posted:Renly was pretty delusional Was still probably the best real King candidate.
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Mar 10, 2015 23:18
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Renly only works on paper. He'd get steamrolled if a real threat loomed over the realm (dragons/others/wildling invasion). I loved Renly and Robb but if they would've survived the war of the 5 Kings, they'd both either suffer a Field of Fire 2, or get to the wall just in time to see undead Jon Snow blow the horn of Gondor and shatter the wall, letting Sauron and his Orcgoblins conquer Midgard.
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Mar 10, 2015 23:26
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How do you become King? By getting enough people to call you King. Renly was deluded perhaps, but royalty is just a shared delusion. He'd have been the best King since Aegon II
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Mar 10, 2015 23:27
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Renly would set a precedent that people can just decide they're king by force of arms, though. I mean, that's already kinda true since the First Men, Andals, and Targaryens all just decided they were rulers because they had the best weapons, but Renly would be directly making the statement that primogeniture doesn't matter, which could lead to every new king having to fight his siblings to hold the throne. I mean, I don't really blame him on that score since he thought Stannis was doing the same thing and he's a king who's capable of getting way more people on his side than Stannis could at that point, but still. His whole "I'm charming and my boyfriend's family has a huge army so that makes me king" thing has serious downsides.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:25
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